Need a 9mm W-231 Load


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OMCHamlin
June 8, 2013, 04:39 PM
Guys, my common 45 acp and 38 spl powder is Winchester W-231. I have a bunch of Berry's 9mm 124 gr Hollow Base, Round Nose, Thick Plated heads and in the interest of commonality of components, I'd like to find a load for IDPA with that head and powder, if possible. My current experiment is with mixed brass, Win WSP primers and 4.4 or 4.6 grains of said Win W-231 powder, with a COAL of 1.130". These are just OK, at a chronographed average velocity of about 1050 for the 4.4 and 1080 for the 4.6 loads, with "meh", average accuracy from my G17. Would anybody care to share their favorite W-231 data for 9mm?
Thanks,
OMC

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splattergun
June 8, 2013, 05:04 PM
That's a pretty common load. People here like that combo and a thread search will give you a ton of hits.
Berry's plated likes a mid-range charge, so something around 4.2 to 4.6 grains will work well.

My P89 likes 4.3 gr. for an accurate, reliable plinking round. I can go a couple 10ths higher and still get great results.

viking499
June 8, 2013, 05:08 PM
That sounds about right. What pistol are you going to be shooting them out of?

OMCHamlin
June 8, 2013, 05:24 PM
Glock 17, 19, EAA WITNESS Match & S&W M&P 9 and 9c. I read elsewhere about 4.5 & 4.7 gr so I may work up a small test batch in those weights. I'm aware that I'm exceeding lead data, but Berry's does say that their double thick plated bullets can drive to 1500 fps ok (not that I'm trying to get anywhere near that! :eek:), just looking for an IDPA making load that's hit that "sweet spot" for accuracy.

hAkron
June 8, 2013, 05:55 PM
124gr either Berry's Plated RN or Montana Gold FMJ. 4.3 HP-38 1.14" OAL. Never chronoed them, but thy are accurate out of all of my 9mm guns.

Lj1941
June 8, 2013, 06:57 PM
My load for 124 Grain Berrys is 4.6 grains of 231 with a 1.130 OAL & a WSP primer with matched headstamp brass. It easily makes the 125K power factor from my 4.25 inch M &P.It is plenty accurate enough and very consistent.:)

bds
June 8, 2013, 07:49 PM
IMO/IME, I have shot various jacketed/plated bullets including Winchester FMJ and Montana Gold FMJ/JHP bullets for match shooting and Berry's HBRN-TP bullets will match or exceed the level of accuracy from other bullets due to the hollow base that extends the bearing surface of the bullet base. BTW, Winchester now sells "hollow base" 9mm FMJ bullets instead of flat lead base FMJ. ;)

Glock 17 has longer leade and very smooth start of rifling and will accommodate longer OALs with RN bullets. But this means more high pressure gas will leak around the bullet before high enough chamber pressures build for more consistent muzzle velocities.

If you want greater accuracy, I would first determine the longest OAL that will pass the barrel drop test then try powder charges of 4.4, 4.5, 4.6 gr of W231/HP-38. BTW, I load for multiple pistols and use 1.135" OAL with 124 gr HBRN-TP bullet for "general purpose range practice load" but if I wanted to maximize accuracy for Glock 17, I would use the longest OAL that will fit the magazine and feed/chamber reliably to minimize high pressure gas leakage for the most consistent chamber pressures/velocities.

Hodgdon load data (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp)
125 gr Sierra FMJ W231/HP-38 OAL 1.090" Start 4.4 gr (1009 fps) 24,600 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1088 fps) 28,800 CUP


looking for an IDPA making load that's hit that "sweet spot" for accuracy.
When Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP bullets came out, I did an accuracy comparison test with the regular Berry's 124 gr RN using 4.2 gr and 4.5 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.135" OAL and Winchester SP primers - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7217193#post7217193

Test pistol was Glock 22 with 40-9 Lone Wolf conversion barrel and all shots were fired off hand. Shot groups measured center-to-center.
124 gr HBRN-TP

3.8 gr 10 Yards - 0.5" with a flyer, very light recoil and did not cycle the slide

4.2 gr 10 Yards - 1.5" average, light recoil
4.2 gr 15 Yards - 2.5" average, light recoil (yes, that's two shots together on top with 2 shots on bottom)

4.5 gr 10 Yards - 1.5" average, mild recoil
4.5 gr 15 Yards - 2.0" average, mild recoil (double shot on top left with 2 shots to the right)

Each target square = 1 inch.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=139725&stc=1&d=1301796434

TonyT
June 8, 2013, 10:09 PM
W-231 will work in 9mm with lighter jacketed bullets (115 & 124 gr) as well as with 147 gr. cast lead bullets. I prefer a slower burning powder in 9mm such as WSF.

Certaindeaf
June 8, 2013, 10:17 PM
Head? what

bds
June 8, 2013, 11:07 PM
I think OP meant head = bullet. :D
powder is Winchester W-231. I have a bunch of Berry's 9mm 124 gr HBRN-TP heads ... I'd like to find a load for IDPA with that head and powder

ArchAngelCD
June 8, 2013, 11:58 PM
For range work I load a 124gr LRN bullet over 4.0gr W231 and with a 124gr FMJ bullet the charge is 4.4gr W231. Both loads are not barn-burners but they are accurate for me.

RussellC
June 9, 2013, 11:39 PM
IMO/IME, I have shot various jacketed/plated bullets including Winchester FMJ and Montana Gold FMJ/JHP bullets for match shooting and Berry's HBRN-TP bullets will match or exceed the level of accuracy from other bullets due to the hollow base that extends the bearing surface of the bullet base. BTW, Winchester now sells "hollow base" 9mm FMJ bullets instead of flat lead base FMJ. ;)

Glock 17 has longer leade and very smooth start of rifling and will accommodate longer OALs with RN bullets. But this means more high pressure gas will leak around the bullet before high enough chamber pressures build for more consistent muzzle velocities.

If you want greater accuracy, I would first determine the longest OAL that will pass the barrel drop test then try powder charges of 4.4, 4.5, 4.6 gr of W231/HP-38. BTW, I load for multiple pistols and use 1.135" OAL with 124 gr HBRN-TP bullet for "general purpose range practice load" but if I wanted to maximize accuracy for Glock 17, I would use the longest OAL that will fit the magazine and feed/chamber reliably to minimize high pressure gas leakage for the most consistent chamber pressures/velocities.

Hodgdon load data (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp)




When Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP bullets came out, I did an accuracy comparison test with the regular Berry's 124 gr RN using 4.2 gr and 4.5 gr W231/HP-38 at 1.135" OAL and Winchester SP primers - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7217193#post7217193

Test pistol was Glock 22 with 40-9 Lone Wolf conversion barrel and all shots were fired off hand. Shot groups measured center-to-center.


Each target square = 1 inch.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=139725&stc=1&d=1301796434
Very interesting, as my beginning reloading is in fact for a Glock 17, and I will be using HP-38 and Unique. Unfortunately, I dont think my bullets are hollow based. Oh well. I will take your advice and see how long of OAL I can get away with, using the plunk test.

Russellc

OMCHamlin
June 11, 2013, 08:56 AM
Thanks all!

Olympus
June 12, 2013, 10:30 AM
I also use 4.3gr of 231 with lead bullets for range ammo. I don't know about velocity nor really care. This just seems to be the most accurate combo for me.

I would imagine that it's still very mild as any sign of limp wristing when shooting my BHP will cause a failure. I can always tell when new people shoot that gun with that load.

OMCHamlin
June 15, 2013, 05:23 PM
Well, I shot those 2 loads some more today, and either one seems to do ok, I may even split the difference and use 4.5 gr of W231 for these. Function is beyond reproach in both my 17 & 19 and shoots to the sights pretty well, too. (Now you watch, 4.4 & 4.6 both shoot the same accuracy wise, but somehow, switching to 4.5 will open them up to 5" groups ! :eek:)

jim243
June 15, 2013, 05:42 PM
4.6 grains of Win 231. Only thing that changes is the OAL depending on bullet weight.

Jim

OMCHamlin
June 15, 2013, 06:21 PM
ahh, shoot, I guess you're right, 4.6 already DOES work, no point in pursuing 4.5 just to save one lousy grain, huh?

1SOW
June 16, 2013, 02:59 AM
The hollow "base base" bullet isn't loaded as deep as it seems. About .005" less than the bullet length indicates due to the hollow base.
4.6 +
That bullet will clear the chamber/rifling at 1.169" in a tight chamber.

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