Academy Sports has 5.56 Ammo in Drums


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CheckFire
June 12, 2013, 09:27 PM
SOME of the Academy's are getting Federal XM855's (62gr.) in 30 gal. sealed barrels.
12,500 rounds for $6500, all or none. Weighs 350#, bring a truck.

Don't know exactly which stores, tho'. You'll hafta call if interested.

If this is the wrong forum, mods pls move/remove. Just a public service announcement.

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allaroundhunter
June 12, 2013, 09:36 PM
I guess one of those qualifies for their 1 box per customer rule :uhoh::eek:

zxcvbob
June 12, 2013, 09:41 PM
That's way too high (IMHO it should be less than $4000) but it's still good to see -- the price will drop as the supply increases, and available-at-a-high-price is the first step.

allaroundhunter
June 12, 2013, 09:42 PM
Compared to what those are selling for in smaller increments....that's a great price...

hso
June 12, 2013, 11:29 PM
But the fact is that it isn't being offered in smaller increments and is instead being offered as more than a 12 case single package lot. Such volume and packaging (that packaging being very important for preserving the quality of the product) should result is a huge reduction in price per round. This is no good deal and it reflects badly on Federal and on Academy when the ammunition could be offered packaged in standard cases as a 10 case minimum for not much more than wholesale.

Agsalaska
June 12, 2013, 11:35 PM
Yea that doesnt make any sense at all. I can by 20 rounds for 10 bucks. Why would I stay at 2 for 1 all the way up to 12,000?

breakingcontact
June 12, 2013, 11:42 PM
Wow, this is just...weird.

CheckFire
June 12, 2013, 11:58 PM
$.52/rd before your state sales tax... guess Academy figures w/ their one box /day limit, you dont hafta stand in line for 625 days for each 20-rd box??

Recent local gunshow/ private sellers prices in this area have been $.75-$1 per round, re-packaged. Ammo panic seems to be subsiding and supply improving.

You could be spending the college fund...or building it...time will tell..

Downeast
June 13, 2013, 07:19 AM
I saw the same drums at a shop here except, the price was higher, $7,000 for 12,500 rounds which works out to .56/Rd. Same shop is selling xm855 in bags of 100 for $60 (.60/Rd).

hso
June 13, 2013, 08:56 AM
Natchez used to sell this stuff for $4k per barrel and it was considered too high at that price (back over a year ago).

http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/_eml/faxm855bar_eml.jpg

Queen_of_Thunder
June 13, 2013, 09:04 AM
I guess one of those qualifies for their 1 box per customer rule :uhoh::eek:
As a matter of fact it does. Their ammo limit for certain calibers is one box each per caliber with a max of 3 calibers per day per person. Doesn't matter if the box holds 20 rounds or 12,500 rounds. You can buy that drum of .223 a box of 9mm and a box of 45acp and stll comply with their ammo purchase policy.

X-Rap
June 13, 2013, 09:10 AM
Wow, finally get a retailer charging market value and everyone is pissed off, what gives?:rolleyes:
In the open/privateer market this stuff has been .90 a round to some peoples way of thinking it is still to cheap.

Queen_of_Thunder
June 13, 2013, 09:35 AM
But the fact is that it isn't being offered in smaller increments and is instead being offered as more than a 12 case single package lot. Such volume and packaging (that packaging being very important for preserving the quality of the product) should result is a huge reduction in price per round. This is no good deal and it reflects badly on Federal and on Academy when the ammunition could be offered packaged in standard cases as a 10 case minimum for not much more than wholesale.
Complain to the manufacture as they are the ones who packaged it this way. Now it would be nice to have a drum or two tucked away in the closet for those bad times in the future.

jrdolall
June 13, 2013, 09:47 AM
Gunbot shows several sites carrying .223 ammo for $.40 per round as of this morning and that s on a per box basis. I'm glad Academy is selling this but it makes no sense to pay $.52 for a drum and need a buddy to unload your ammo.
Prices are moderating. $.40 is still way too high for .223 steel ammo but it is less than half what it was 3 months ago AND it is available from several sources. Most of the LGS I frequent have plenty of ammo available, other than bulk .22, but it is generally about 50% higher than I want to pay.

Vector
June 13, 2013, 09:48 AM
That's way too high (IMHO it should be less than $4000) but it's still good to see -- the price will drop as the supply increases, and available-at-a-high-price is the first step.

I agree, especially in bulk like that.
The pre ban prices for decent bulk ammo in .223 was around $0.33 per round.

stumpers
June 13, 2013, 09:54 AM
Wow, this is just...weird.

I agree.

Like others have said, why overpay AND have the hassle of an unmanageable amount of ammo?

Queen_of_Thunder
June 13, 2013, 10:03 AM
I agree.

Like others have said, why overpay AND have the hassle of an unmanageable amount of ammo?
Now thats a problem to have. To much ammo to manage.

Owen
June 13, 2013, 11:04 AM
I'd be wary of anything coming from Lake City these days...

X-Rap
June 13, 2013, 11:15 AM
If those drums ever get down to around .27-.30 per round I'd like a few.

Potatohead
June 13, 2013, 11:53 AM
i'll take one

Queen_of_Thunder
June 13, 2013, 12:01 PM
Gunbot shows several sites carrying .223 ammo for $.40 per round as of this morning and that s on a per box basis. I'm glad Academy is selling this but it makes no sense to pay $.52 for a drum and need a buddy to unload your ammo.
Prices are moderating. $.40 is still way too high for .223 steel ammo but it is less than half what it was 3 months ago AND it is available from several sources. Most of the LGS I frequent have plenty of ammo available, other than bulk .22, but it is generally about 50% higher than I want to pay.
Steel ammo? That's something that will never go into any gun of mine other than my AK74.

r1derbike
June 13, 2013, 12:57 PM
If ever I need that much penetrator ammo (think Blues Brothers' town hall police chase :) ), there's my source!

I'd much rather have XM193 for plinkin', and match ammo for SD.

That's a lot of ammo; more than I'd shoot for the rest of my life.

jrdolall, thanks for the Gunbot site! Had not seen that one before.

r1derbike
June 13, 2013, 01:01 PM
I'd be wary of anything coming from Lake City these days...
Owen, what's up with Lake City ammo? I'll do some searches, never mind.

hso
June 13, 2013, 01:17 PM
Owen's pointing out what should be obvious with some reflection.

Any large quantity bulk ammunition packed like this very frequently is rejected by the US Gov. and sold like this to the public. These "drums" are what I associate with such rejects.

Makes the price a little less attractive if you're buying 400lb of components that should be pulled apart and used to load your own with, don't it?

jrdolall
June 13, 2013, 01:24 PM
Gunbot is a good site for keeping up with current offerings online. Ammoseek is similar. A month or so ago the people that had .223 were $1 per round and now there are 6-7 sites at or around $.40-.50 per round. Those of you who think the manufacturers are causing the high prices may want to look at that. I think it was/is retailers taking advantage and possibly some middle men jacking up their prices to smaller stores. I'm not faulting them at all because I believe in whatever the market will bear.

A local guy earlier this week had 7.62x39 for $500 per 1,000 and acknowledged he was going to have to lower his price to compete. Gander has had most ammo all along but at higher than their normally high prices while Academy around here never has a box when I go in but then I dont visit at 7 AM. Walmart has been at pre-panic prices if you can get lucky and find it. At least i could keep up with my ammo if it was all in one drum. I always plan to keep mine organized and then I find 5 boxes of .223 hiding amidst the 9mm. Darned kids.

Owen
June 13, 2013, 01:31 PM
r1der,

Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is a GOCO. (Goverment Owned, Contractor Operated)

You have to ask why the government would allow a contractor to make money by selling ammuntion made on government owned machinery, and probably with government supplied components. Ammunition can be stored indefinitely, and after 10 years of war, there are plenty of empty magazines out there, so the chances of there being large over runs that the government won't take are close to nil...

Now, say ATK ( the current contractor) made some bad ammo. Selling that ammo commmercially allows the government to recover some of the sunk costs.

The government also routinely checks lots of ammunition for degradation. When a lot is degraded, the governemt will either have the contractor sell the ammunition, or have it demiled. (this is where all those pulled bullets come from.)

Any suplus ammo coming from the US government should be suspect, and is definitely not worth paying a premium for.

Queen_of_Thunder
June 13, 2013, 03:15 PM
It may be government owned but the government gets paid via lease aggrements.

Owen
June 13, 2013, 04:04 PM
It may be government owned but the government gets paid via lease aggrements.

That's not how GOCOs work. The government doesn't get paid anything. ATK gets paid to run the plant. ATK can not use government furnished equipment or material for anything but government purposes: that's the law.

jrdolall
June 13, 2013, 04:34 PM
I just bought Tula .223 from Walmart for $.28 per round including tax. $5.27 a box and I loaded up and got the whole 60 rounds I could buy. I didn't need any but I haven't seen any in months so I just panicked.

Trent
June 13, 2013, 05:12 PM
Man, that much weight, I'd be worried about the cases on the bottom getting smooshed out of round.

I've had that happen with 223 brass when piled in 5 gallon buckets for long periods of time. Brass on the bottom was no longer "round" (when I finally got down to it).

X-Rap
June 13, 2013, 05:30 PM
So the gov. is mandating the selling of ammo to the public that is either faulty or degrading.
That is of great concern, both for the well being of those who may use it and the general liability of my gov. and what may eventually be a cost to me as a tax payer.
Is this ammo sold with some type of disclaimer or caveat?

22250Rem
June 13, 2013, 05:59 PM
Two years ago this month, (6/22/11) Natchez had 12500 round drums of Fed. 5.56 62 gr. green tip on sale for $3993.75; marked down from the regular price of $4900.. That was $6.39/per 20, according to the ad.

Owen
June 13, 2013, 08:37 PM
X-rap...it'll be safe, just a high misfire rate, variable velocity (from exposure or aging) or just generally out of spec.

denton
June 13, 2013, 09:03 PM
It's absolutely true that if the Army rejects a batch of M855, Lake City packages it up and sells it as sporting ammo.

I'm not very fond of ammo with a steel penetrator tucked inside the jacket, ahead of the lead. But I do keep a couple of boxes around as momentos of the consulting work I did there.

r1derbike
June 13, 2013, 09:09 PM
r1der,

Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is a GOCO. (Goverment Owned, Contractor Operated)

You have to ask why the government would allow a contractor to make money by selling ammuntion made on government owned machinery, and probably with government supplied components. Ammunition can be stored indefinitely, and after 10 years of war, there are plenty of empty magazines out there, so the chances of there being large over runs that the government won't take are close to nil...

Now, say ATK ( the current contractor) made some bad ammo. Selling that ammo commmercially allows the government to recover some of the sunk costs.

The government also routinely checks lots of ammunition for degradation. When a lot is degraded, the governemt will either have the contractor sell the ammunition, or have it demiled. (this is where all those pulled bullets come from.)

Any suplus ammo coming from the US government should be suspect, and is definitely not worth paying a premium for.Gotcha! Makes perfect sense!

Bruno2
June 13, 2013, 09:09 PM
That's not how GOCOs work. The government doesn't get paid anything. ATK gets paid to run the plant. ATK can not use government furnished equipment or material for anything but government purposes: that's the law.


We know that never happens.

hso
June 13, 2013, 11:47 PM
It may be government owned but the government gets paid via lease aggrements.

No, owen is providing accurate information. ATS is the contractor that operates the facility for the Fed and they get paid to do that. The "product" from that effort belongs to the Fed and any that is sold is sold by order of the Fed. Only two types of ammunition come out of modern GOCO facilities, over run or out of spec. Back when you'd see large quantities of it in years past packed loose in 1,000 rd cardboard cases with plastic bag liners it would often be labeled "For Training Purposes Only".

It ain't a sweet deal unless the price is dirt cheap (says the guy with a couple of cases on the shelf).

12many
June 14, 2013, 02:14 PM
I find that I can buy .223 for less locally than I can in bulk online. Seems like it should be just the opposite.

TRX
June 15, 2013, 10:29 AM
Has anyone actually used any drum-packed ammo?

With 350# of lead and brass in there, I wonder how the ammunition on the bottom holds up to the weight, particularly when slammed down on concrete a few times.

hso
June 15, 2013, 12:12 PM
That's part of the reason it used to be not much more than the cost of recycled components.

hentown
June 15, 2013, 05:23 PM
Is the information that the ammo is bad based on empirical review by anybody posting here, or is it just the repeating of internet lore and/or speculation?

Has anybody actually bought a barrel of that ammo and chrony'd it? What's the date on the headstamps? If it's LC with recent dates, then wouldn't that contradict the "it's government rejected" information??

Where does the brand-new, unfired LC brass with recent headstamp dates come from? Inquiring minds (well, at lest one) want to know. :cool:

medalguy
June 15, 2013, 07:29 PM
The brass could very well be rejected brass that doesn't meet any of the government specs. If that were the case, the brass would be scrapped and sold for metallic content. High bidder can do with it whatever he pleases as long as the contact does not specify demilitarization, and generally anything under 50 cal doesn't.

I ran a company for many years that used GFM (government furnished materials) and let me assure you there are very strict controls on that material. It must be accounted for from receipt from the government all the way through production to the final product. Any component that does not meet the requirements MAY be scrapped after a government inspector examines it, tests it, and declares it non-conforming. Then disposal is up to the government representative. Small valued items can be tossed, but anything with any value such as brass, powder, lead, bullets, and the like, must be sold and the funds reimbursed to the government. Otherwise the government will take possession of the material and handle the scrap sale themselves. It just depends on the item, the cost, the residual value, and the amount of time involved for the government. The contractor isn't free to make product, sell it, and pocket the funds from the sale of GFM. Or product made on government owned tooling either.

hso
June 15, 2013, 10:42 PM
Is the information that the ammo is bad based on empirical review by anybody posting here, or is it just the repeating of internet lore and/or speculation?

It is based on one person in the industry and another in an associated industry both familiar with GOCO ammunition plants and their operations.

Perhaps this will help the folks that don't get how disqualification of ammunition works.

https://acc.dau.mil/adl/en-US/645411/file/69847/AIN%20072-13.pdf

It isn't unsafe to use, or they wouldn't sell it, but it is out of specification and the quality/accuracy/reliability of it may not meet military standards. Heck, it might be that it isn't properly marked for military use, but that it is fine from a shooting perspective. Regardless, it failed inspection and is being sold off.

x_wrench
June 16, 2013, 10:43 AM
SOME of the Academy's are getting Federal XM855's (62gr.) in 30 gal. sealed barrels.
12,500 rounds for $6500, all or none. Weighs 350#, bring a truck.

CONGRATULATIONS! You just made Barack Obama's sphincter muscle quiver! lol! I bet he has heads on the chopping block for this. that much ammo, in one persons hands, all at one time. i am sure he will try to RAM a law down our throats stopping anything like this in the future.

Torian
June 16, 2013, 10:45 AM
Not great but not horrible either. It is surprising for such a large amount of ammo...that they wouldn't be a little on the lower side.

This is a good way to only market to the serious ammo enthusiast I guess...that's a serious purchase.

hso
June 16, 2013, 07:34 PM
Torian,

Serious ammo enthusiasts wouldn't buy it because of the way that it is packaged and why it is being sold to the public. Only folks that just want blasting ammo.

zxcvbob
June 16, 2013, 07:45 PM
It still serves a market, and takes pressure off other markets. I wouldn't buy it at that price but I'm glad to see it available. (and I learned something about GOCOs)

BullfrogKen
June 16, 2013, 08:43 PM
Yup, this is exactly how GOCO plants work.

I wouldn't be interested in an ammo deal like that, either.

FitGunner
June 17, 2013, 05:02 PM
As I recall, Academy had this stuff last year before the craziness for the same price. Not a great price for a loose-packed bulk drum container of ammo that be had for the same or less in a 20 to 50-round box.

Bruno2
June 17, 2013, 05:18 PM
Looks like one of those deals for people that have more money than sense.

12many
June 17, 2013, 05:35 PM
more dollars than cents.

hso
June 17, 2013, 11:18 PM
And now that's 3 of us that know how GOCO ammunition plants work that have chimed in. I assume the debate over GOCOs can be set aside.

If the price were much cheaper, I'd buy the stuff just for blasting ammo so I wouldn't have to wast my first quality stuff plinking.

xxjumbojimboxx
June 17, 2013, 11:26 PM
Steel ammo? That's something that will never go into any gun of mine other than my AK74.
Afraid to replace an extractor are we :)?



Heh anyways yeah a little too much ammo for a little too much money. You could buy an ak47 and probably more like 15000 rounds (wholesale)for that kind of moula and have a lot more fun :)

zxcvbob
June 17, 2013, 11:49 PM
Last year I bought an ammo can of Federal "American Eagle" XM855F AC1 ammo for $133; 420 rounds in a new steel ammo box. It's full of 20-round green boxes; haven't opened one yet. Does the 'X' in front of the designation mean it's .gov reject?

ETA: Wow! The same cans of ammo are now over $400. I wonder if they actually sell any at that price?

Owen
June 22, 2013, 10:46 AM
I don't think American Eagle branded ammo would be coming from lake city.

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