Need help with OAL for a 30-30 lever and a SP bullet


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Rule3
June 14, 2013, 08:59 PM
I have a few boxes of Speer 150gr HCSP (hot core)

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=90

These were for a 30-06 which I do not feel like shooting, so would like to use them in a lever action 30-30

I know these are not good to load up in a tubular magazine, but I can use them as single shot or one in the chamber and one in the mag.

I have load data for this weight bullet but no idea of where to start on seating them.? I do not have any go, no go gauge.

How do I determine a OAL? Seat them long and push them into the chamber by slowly closing the lever.?? I have done it with bolt actions but never determined a lever action? Is it the same ? How do I tell if it is right or if too short?

Thanks

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rcmodel
June 14, 2013, 09:12 PM
You will have to seat them to SAAMI Max length of 2.550", or shorter.

Or you most likely can't eject an unfired round without firing it first.

And if you do that, you can safely load one in the chamber and one in the magazine as they will feed through the action.

rc

Rule3
June 15, 2013, 02:11 AM
OK, That makes sense as to not being able to eject them. So I seat them to Max length, is there any way to determine a shorter OAL or would there be no reason to do that?

I will load some dummy rounds, so if the fit, then just go with that?

Guess I have never loaded any handgun or rifle round at a max OAL so it seems odd, but then I never loaded for a lever action without using the manual tested OAL. On the lead bullets I have been using, they are loaded to the crimp groove.

gamestalker
June 15, 2013, 02:16 AM
I definitely wouldn't stack them in that tubular magazine. And OAL is going to be limited to what your gun will feed and extract loaded rounds at.

In the future, you might want to locate some RN bullets that are better suited for that lever gun. It will make for a much more gooder combination.

GS

rcmodel
June 15, 2013, 02:17 AM
For a lever action, they should be crimped too if you put one in the magazine.

If the bullets don't have a crimp cannulure, or it's in the wrong place?

Fuggedaboutit.

I will load some dummy rounds,
Fuggedabout that too.

Load them slightly shorter then the MAX OAL I posted and gofer it.

rc

jr_roosa
June 15, 2013, 02:19 AM
I took some 150 gr RN bullets and seated the spire points so that the base was in the same spot, which gives the same internal case volume. You can do this by comparing the length of the bullets and doing the math.

These are way too long to feed. I put one in the magazine at the range, and I had to back it out through the loading port on my model 94. Pain in the butt.

You can seat them back further to feed, but then all you get is a 2 shot rifle instead of a single shot rifle. If you seat them deeper, then you need to back off on the load, and I don't know how you would be sure you aren't exceeding max pressure.

I just shot them one at a time loading from the top. Then I got bored of that. I couldn't see and improvement in accuracy, and the difference in drop was not enough to make up for the single shot issue. I suppose you could load the spire point in the chamber and keep the mag full of round noses.

-J.

Rule3
June 15, 2013, 02:22 AM
Yes, I am aware of that as to the tube mag which I mentioned. I have these bullets so it's a use what I have kind of thing.

I am well stocked on pistol and 223 supplies but I would like to buy some rifle powder and LRP. But I am not about to order 2 lbs of powder (limit) and pay a haz mat and not be able to buy primers at the same time or buy them from another place and pay another haz nat.

Rule3
June 15, 2013, 02:28 AM
For a lever action, they should be crimped too if you put one in the magazine.

If the bullets don't have a crimp cannulure, or it's in the wrong place?

Fuggedaboutit.


Fuggedabout that too.

Load them slightly shorter then the MAX OAL I posted and gofer it.

rc
I can crimp them with a Lee Collet crimp die. But if it is going to be such a PITA maybe I will just shoot them in the 308.

This is really getting old not being able to purchase a few damn things like a box of FN jacketed bullets and some powder.

I am good for handgun calibers but who the heck is hoarding 30-30 ?? Good grief there isn't even any brass for sale.:(

We have no place that sells reloading supplies around here except Bass Pro but they have nothing and I hate buying from them anyway.

popper
June 15, 2013, 05:02 PM
Just load a dummy, no crimp, if it doesn't chamber, seat it deeper. Keep going until it chambers, extracts and feed properly. 20 thou off the lands should be good. Select a load for the remaining case capacity or start at the low end. Have fun. You don't need to crimp when single or double loading, if the neck tension is sufficient to prevent set back when chambering or extracting. The one in the tube has nothing to push it back. FL sizing with a 'good' standard die should do it.

Rule3
June 15, 2013, 08:07 PM
Just load a dummy, no crimp, if it doesn't chamber, seat it deeper. Keep going until it chambers, extracts and feed properly. 20 thou off the lands should be good. Select a load for the remaining case capacity or start at the low end. Have fun. You don't need to crimp when single or double loading, if the neck tension is sufficient to prevent set back when chambering or extracting. The one in the tube has nothing to push it back. FL sizing with a 'good' standard die should do it.
Thanks. I have done that with bolt actions but never tried messing with OAL and a lever action.

rcmodel
June 15, 2013, 08:48 PM
The one in the tube has nothing to push it backExcept the mag spring, follower, and bullet inertia when it try's to stay where it is while the gun kicks away from it.

Then gets slammed back against the receiver cartridge stops when the mag spring puts it back when it should of been.

rc

Rule3
June 15, 2013, 08:53 PM
No worries, I probably will not use these bullets but if I did I would crimp them with the collet die.

NCsmitty
June 15, 2013, 10:25 PM
Midway is showing a few brands of 30-30 designed bullets in stock right now. Save the other spitzer bullets for your 308 or use them for barter material.


NCsmitty

jr_roosa
June 16, 2013, 02:13 AM
who the heck is hoarding 30-30 ?? Good grief there isn't even any brass for sale.

I suspect that all of the brass and bullet making machines are being used exclusively for the highest demand products. I bet that hornady and sierra and whoever else makes RN .308 bullets run off batches on the same machines that make their other .308" bullets and basically just stopped making the round nose stuff until they catch up on orders for the pointy stuff.

I did find 2 boxes of the Hornady .308 110gr RN bullets at Sportsman's Warehouse the other day. I took one home and left the other for the next guy. I've been loading some more varmint/plinking loads for my Win 94.

As for brass, I bet it's the same problem. Once they catch up on .308 and .223, then they will re-tool and catch up with the other lower volume calibers. I bet they run off a year or two worth of .30-30 when they do a batch so they don't have to retool for it as often. That's what I would do.

Plus I heard that they Homeland Security is outfitting their mounted officers with lever actions and bought 10,000,000 rounds of .30-30 ammo for training purposes. I have a close friend who knows somebody in the industry who told him that. :rolleyes:

-J.

Rule3
June 16, 2013, 10:13 AM
Plus I heard that they Homeland Security is outfitting their mounted officers with lever actions and bought 10,000,000 rounds of .30-30 ammo for training purposes. I have a close friend who knows somebody in the industry who told him that. :rolleyes:

-J.

Yep, we have the Mounted Officers at our Airport, they are on Segways. Only problem is it takes two hands to rack the lever and then they fall off.:D

jr_roosa
June 17, 2013, 02:09 AM
it takes two hands to rack the lever

Tell that to Chuck Connors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rifleman

-J.

popper
June 17, 2013, 11:16 AM
Except the mag spring, follower, and bullet inertia when it try's to stay where it is while the gun kicks away from it. Yes, but nothing compared to the inertia of 2 or 3 in the tube. Shooting rifle from a segway - that would be a hoot to watch. I was fortunate to get 1K 308 MG brass last month, price wasn't too bad, cleaned & swaged. Now I do have a lifetime supply. I'm good for a yr or so in 30-30, toss out the occasional split neck. I FL size everything but barely touch the shoulder. THe 308 is an AR so the cases get dinged pretty bad.

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