.45 ACP loading questions


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Conservidave
June 15, 2013, 11:09 AM
I just picked up around 500 .45 brass cases with small primer pockets, is there anything I need to know about reloading these other than needing small primers?
Also, the pockets looked crimped on a bunch of them but I can't tell for sure, is it common for this type of round to have crimped pockets?

Thanks,
Dave

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arspeukinen
June 15, 2013, 11:13 AM
Use rifle primers (make sure your gun will reliably set them off) or small pistol magnum primers if you can find such. There is a BIG difference in powder burn between small and large primers in .45acp at least when usinh Vihtavuori powders. Hard to make "major pf" in ipsc using small primers.

arspeukinen
June 15, 2013, 11:15 AM
Crimp is common. Either remove it by hand or use a priming tool that removes the crimp automatically (at least dillon 1050 can do it)

steve4102
June 15, 2013, 11:48 AM
I have noticed no difference in performance between 45 ACP loads with LP or SP primers. YMMV

mike.h
June 15, 2013, 11:56 AM
me either. I've noticed no performance differences between LPP and SPP.

mljdeckard
June 15, 2013, 02:19 PM
Nope. I set them aside and prime them with my 9mms, no difference at all.

Hondo 60
June 15, 2013, 02:22 PM
I just picked up around 500 .45 brass cases with small primer pockets, is there anything I need to know about reloading these other than needing small primers?
Nope.

Also, the pockets looked crimped on a bunch of them but I can't tell for sure, is it common for this type of round to have crimped pockets?

Military is crimped. I can't say that I've seen SPP in military rounds.

mbopp
June 15, 2013, 02:23 PM
Somebody on another forum chrono'd SP and LP loads for a 45ACP. With identical powder charges the SP loads were 50-75 FPS slower.
I find the SP cases give me a bit better accuracy though.
The 45ACP cases used the LP primers so they could be run down the same production line as the M1 30-06 rounds.

mdi
June 15, 2013, 02:30 PM
When the progressive press fellers started yelling about small primer 45 ACP brass a few articles were written about them in the gun rags. I believe it was Handloader that ran a pretty extensive test with small vs. large primers in 45 ACP. Standard primers were used, not rifle nor magnum primers. The only difference in functioning, accuracy, velocity was a slightly lower muzzle velocity, mebbe 25 fps. using small primers, with identical powder loads. Everything else was identical. Over the last couple years the reports on various forums by reloaders say the same; no appreciable difference.

Conservidave
June 16, 2013, 12:19 AM
This is all good news now that I have a new source and supply for this brass, so I guess i'll be stocking up on the small primers too.

Thanks,
Dave

arspeukinen
June 16, 2013, 05:44 AM
I say it again: using CBC cases, there is a very pronounced difference between LP and SP primers using Vihtavuori N320 or N340. Otherwise identical loads.

In IPSC terms, with SP, the load falls under "minor pf", while with LP it makes major easily.

TonyT
June 16, 2013, 07:59 AM
I only use mild loads with fast burning powders such as American Select, WST or Red Dot and have not seen any significant difference between SP and LP primers. You might see some velocity differences if you use the slow burning powders at near max loads.

kerreckt
June 16, 2013, 12:43 PM
I have chrono'd sp,sp mag. and lp primers in .45acp and there is no difference...at all. I have done this a number of times and always the same thing...no difference.

mdi
June 16, 2013, 02:55 PM
I have chrono'd sp,sp mag. and lp primers in .45acp and there is no difference...at all. I have done this a number of times and always the same thing...no difference.
Hmmm. Have you tried any CBC cases with Vihtavuori powders, and rifle and magnum primers?

the count
June 16, 2013, 03:03 PM
I hate .45 with small pistol primers...mess up my reloading setup.

seastrike
June 16, 2013, 04:08 PM
I save the sp for the unlikely case that I run out of lp primers. When I've shot them (using Win 231 and normal spp) I've noticed zero difference though I haven't chrony'd them.
I've also used them for shoots where I don't want to pick up brass (idpa and such).

tyeo098
June 16, 2013, 09:38 PM
I prime separately from my loading on my processive.

When I feel a primer that wont go in 999 times out of 1000 its a SPP and goes aside.
Prime it with my 9mm and chuck it in the primed 45 box.

My 1911 doesn't care.

moxie
June 16, 2013, 10:51 PM
There are no crimped primers in currently produced .45ACP cartridges. Those with small primers are produced for training/range use only, not for operational use. The only reason for crimping handgun primer pockets is when the intended use for that cartridge is in submachine guns, where the rapid repeated recoil could loosen the primer. Such is not the case at all today as no U.S. .45 ACP subguns are in use, the last being the M-3, and that was a long time ago.

Hk Dan
June 16, 2013, 11:03 PM
Oh for Christs sake! Those are WinNT brass and you dont need rifle primers or magnum primers. Standard will work fine. A 45 ACP has the ame powder charge as the 9mm and .40, and THEY use small primers. Its not like your trying to set off a 72 grain 300 winmag load or something.

Conservidave
June 17, 2013, 12:56 AM
"There are no crimped primers in currently produced .45ACP cartridges. Those with small primers are produced for training/range use only, not for operational use."

It's my understanding these were training rounds from local law enforcement.

I did prime 300 of these cases today and didn't have any issues except for the occasional tight squeeze with the primers. I plan on working up a large batch of Semi Wad cutters I've had sitti'n around for a while which will make good use for the brass and lead.

Thanks,
Dave

arspeukinen
June 17, 2013, 03:29 AM
There are no crimped primers in currently produced .45ACP cartridges.

Magtech makes SP primed, crimped .45acp ammo.

arspeukinen
June 17, 2013, 03:37 AM
I just checked.
Two loads: same bullet, same OAL, same amount of same powder.
OAL 31.25mm, bullet is a Lead Extrusions plated 230gr RN, powder 5 grains of VV N320. Remington No 1 1/2 SP vs Magtech No 2 1/2 LP.

With LP, PF 170 out of CZ97b, 178 out of brand new Ruger 1911.
With SP, PF 147 outof CZ97b, 159 out of the Ruger.
(PF using the normal fps * weight in grains / 1000).

That means that with the 1911 there is ~90fps difference and with the CZ ~80fps difference. I'd call that pretty significant.

arspeukinen
June 17, 2013, 03:44 AM
But to sum it up: I pick up SP .45 brass (not many do so I have plenty), and then use it in throwaway practice ammo. For example when shooting in snow and the brass will be lost anyway. They are not worth the hassle for competition use. Some brands of primers will seat properly without removing the crimp (Remington for example, it has rounded edges and seems tough), other will not (Zenith, S&B).

kerreckt
June 17, 2013, 09:12 AM
Quote:
"Hmmm. Have you tried any CBC cases with Vihtavuori powders, and rifle and magnum primers?"

I have not tried CBC case with Vihtavuori powder. I did try magnum spp (as stated in my post #13). No rifle primers. I may have to give Vihtavuori powder a try next time. I have a couple of pounds of N310 and N350. I believe I can use these with .45acp.

gpjoe
June 17, 2013, 10:43 AM
Oh for Christs sake! Those are WinNT brass and you dont need rifle primers or magnum primers. Standard will work fine. A 45 ACP has the ame powder charge as the 9mm and .40, and THEY use small primers. Its not like your trying to set off a 72 grain 300 winmag load or something.

I agree with this.

I have used 45 ACP brass with small and large pistol primers (never rifle or magnum), using identical loads and projectiles, and there seems to be no noticeable difference. I imagine that the rounds may chrono differently, but all of the rounds were fine as far as function and accuracy. Competition requirements aside, the rounds were fine for range use, practice and casual shooting.

arspeukinen
June 17, 2013, 02:25 PM
I imagine that the rounds may chrono differently, but all of the rounds were fine as far as function and accuracy. Competition requirements aside, the rounds were fine for range use, practice and casual shooting.

Absolutely. They function fine - and recoil noticeably less. And chrono 80-90 fps slower. Maybe this is specific to CBC (Magtech) cases, they are the only kind of .45acp brass with SP pockets I have encountered. Maybe the brass has more internal space, or something.

hgte2001
June 17, 2013, 03:31 PM
wow, for the guy trying to make majors, increase charge slightly--look at proportional chart increase and interpolate the 10s required to increase the velocity 70 to 80 FPS.

I have federal, CBC, mag-tach, and Remington with SP pockets. I was considering throwing them away but think I will use them in my next match.

Since they have come out I now sort my my brass by placing upside down in cartridge box and pulling what few SPs I end up with. I likely have a 300 of them in a bag now.

Be careful and never force a progressive to hard as I have heard of people having one go off in their Dillon.

Have fun! Anyone got a good power Pistol load for SP 230 lead Lyman bullets. I am guessing 6.8 grains based on my current 6.5 gr load!

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