Need advice for a true 1X-? scope


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Fatelvis
June 15, 2013, 11:52 AM
I'm looking for a QUALITY true 1X scope that works great at very close distances, as well as at 600 yds. I'm putting it on my S&W M&P10 and will be shooting 168 SMK loads. So far I've been eyeballing the SS 1-6, Vortex Razor 1-6, and Leupold. Any input would be appreciated, thanks!

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JustinJ
June 15, 2013, 12:20 PM
There is no such thing as a variable scope with true 1x. At the lowest setting there will be magnification of some degree.

Which to get really depends on your budget. I really dig the Leupold Mark 6.

zeos
June 15, 2013, 12:51 PM
if you have some money burning a hole in your pocket you could get one of those elcan sights.

http://swfa.com/Elcan-1x4x-SpecterDR-Optical-Sight-P7190.aspx

Fatelvis
June 15, 2013, 01:16 PM
There is no such thing as a variable scope with true 1x. At the lowest setting there will be magnification of some degree.
Is that true? So shooting with both eyes open at 1X would be different than using my Aimpoint?

lmccrock
June 15, 2013, 06:29 PM
Vortex has the best glass for the money, at least to my eyes, and I did a side-by-side of Vortex Razor 1-4x and a Swarovski (not sure which one, but it was a 1-4x and >$2k). The Razor 1-6x is better. I own the Razor 1-4x for 3-gun.

There is no such thing as a variable scope with true 1x. At the lowest setting there will be magnification of some degree.

No reason for that. They do not always make it, but even if it is 1.1x (like my IOR was), your eyes cannot tell. Lots of 3-gun competitors shoot both eyes open with a variety of low power (1-?) variables.

gotigers
June 15, 2013, 08:13 PM
I shoot with both eyes open at 1x using my Nikon Monarch African 1-4x and with my 15-22 using a Weaver Classic 1-3x. The Nikon 1x is so good, i can't see a difference. The weaver is very close, but i do see a little mag, very little.

I have been thinking about the Vortex 1-6x. Vortex makes great scopes.

-v-
June 15, 2013, 11:58 PM
Question #1 that hasn't been asked is what's your budget? A S&B Short Dot or a Leupold 1-8x are both awesome piece of optical technology. The major downside, is that they often cost about 2-3x as much as the rifle they are mounted on.

If you're not looking to drop $2-4k on an optic, the Vortex Viper is a great $500-range optic, the Weaver V-1 is a nice little no-frills entry level 1-3x scope in the sub-$200 range.

allaroundhunter
June 16, 2013, 12:42 AM
I shoot 3 gun with a 1-4x Burris MTac out to 625 yards. It is a good scope, and at 1x I am unable to tell the difference between it and an Aimpoint once I start aiming at a target further than 5 yards away (but inside of that I can tell a difference).

I have shot the new Leupold Mark 8 and it is a mice (read 'nice') scope, but the reticle was too busy for me to use it quickly like I need for 3 gun.

Bushnell has a couple great 1x-? scopes that are definitely worth looking into.

jim243
June 16, 2013, 12:48 AM
I have shot the new Leupold Mark 8 and it is a mice scope,

Funny I thought their interest was only in cheese (LOL), I like the Vortex.

Jim

allaroundhunter
June 16, 2013, 12:58 AM
Funny I thought their interest was only in cheese (LOL), I like the Vortex.

Jim

Dumb autocorrect.... Dumber phone :o

Fatelvis
June 16, 2013, 01:11 AM
I really don't want to spend over $2k.

Dean1818
June 16, 2013, 08:01 AM
My Leupold VXR 1.25 X 4 is absolutely fantastic

You can go a long way with 4x



I LOT further than I thought I could.....

dubbleA
June 16, 2013, 09:58 PM
I am digging the Trijicon 1-4X on this POF AR-10. It's got a simple post with their tried and trued green tritium triangle. It's real easy to pick up and yet offers a defined aiming point. At 1x it is easy to run with both eyes while at 4X it offers adequate power for longer shots. They run $850ish.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/dubbleA/1POFP308/IMG_5287_zpsbe8da0d8.jpg

gotigers
June 17, 2013, 08:15 AM
dubbleA, is that yours? That paint job is awesome.

as i said, i think the vortex 1-4x is a good choice, but a post above reminded me of the Leupold 1-8x. That would be a very versatile scope. We all know leupold is gtg.

Sav .250
June 17, 2013, 08:20 AM
Check out Natchez shooting Supplies. They have every scope none to man-kind.
Well, almost.

Get educated!

JustinJ
June 17, 2013, 09:11 AM
No reason for that. They do not always make it, but even if it is 1.1x (like my IOR was), your eyes cannot tell. Lots of 3-gun competitors shoot both eyes open with a variety of low power (1-?) variables.

No reason but the laws of physics. Even the most high end 1-4x variable optics will magnify some at the lowest setting. I agree, that does not mean you can't shoot both eyes open but it is not the same as a true 1x for this application.

The link below displays clearly that at the lowest setting there will be some magnification: http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=627913&postcount=13

WardenWolf
June 17, 2013, 09:15 AM
I know there is ONE true 1x scope out there, but I can't recall what it is. What it actually is, is a fixed power scope of around 4x power, but with an inverting lens that can be flipped up to actually cancel the magnification. So when you're at full magnification, you're only looking through 2 lenses, but at 1x you're looking through 3. This works out well because the minute loss of clarity is largely a non-issue on an unmagnified optic.

JustinJ
June 17, 2013, 09:29 AM
I know there is ONE true 1x scope out there, but I can't recall what it is. What it actually is, is a fixed power scope of around 4x power, but with an inverting lens that can be flipped up to actually cancel the magnification. So when you're at full magnification, you're only looking through 2 lenses, but at 1x you're looking through 3. This works out well because the minute loss of clarity is largely a non-issue on an unmagnified optic.

That's an interesting concept but would require a very large housing for the scope. Is it the Elcan?

jack44
June 17, 2013, 09:42 AM
I have a leapold 1x24mm pig plex its pretty good and clear.

hang fire
June 17, 2013, 11:37 AM
I agree that most all variable powered scopes on 1x will give some magnification.

I have a older Weaver steel tube fixed K1.5x that I have on a Swiss K31 rifle. For clarity, the K1.5x optics are hard to beat and with the WFV, getting quickly on target is fast and easy. Can't hardly tell difference in magnification between it and a Bushnell Banner scope 1-4x set on 1x.

But like most low powered scopes, seeing the front sight etc. can be a bit disconcerting for some people.

dubbleA
June 17, 2013, 01:59 PM
dubbleA, is that yours? That paint job is awesome.



Thank you....

Yeah I just finished Cerakoting it with earthtone colors. With the varying/irregular surfaces of this platform the digital was very challenging to say the least.

-v-
June 17, 2013, 08:30 PM
Also, since most 1-4x scopes have a diopter adjustment, its possible to set it to 1x, and fiddle with the diopter until it is a true 1.0x scope. Truth be told, you'll be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a 0.9x-1.1x magnification range vs true 1x unless you look at a ruler. That's been my experience, YMMV.

gotigers
June 17, 2013, 10:01 PM
regardless of true 1x or not, me and every 3 gunner i know, says the same thing. We can shoot with both eyes open with scopes made from most quality manufacturers that state 1x. Nikon, Weaver, Burris, Leupold and a few more. Some better than others.

Fatelvis: get a scope from a manufacturer you trust and you'll be fine.

taliv
June 17, 2013, 10:38 PM
i have the swaro z6i 1-6x and the vortex 1-6x HD and the USO 1-8x. They're all phenomenal.

for the money, you can get the vortex for just over 1/2 the price of the others. it's glass is almost as good as the swaro (close enough to not matter to me) and the eyebox is almost as fantastic (close enough to not matter) but it's quite a bit shorter and feels lighter. and the knobs are better than the swaro

the advantage of the USO is a little more power, and a better reticle

the trijicon is cool. the NF 1-4x is a piece of crap.

backbencher
June 18, 2013, 02:21 PM
Quote:
I know there is ONE true 1x scope out there, but I can't recall what it is. What it actually is, is a fixed power scope of around 4x power, but with an inverting lens that can be flipped up to actually cancel the magnification. So when you're at full magnification, you're only looking through 2 lenses, but at 1x you're looking through 3. This works out well because the minute loss of clarity is largely a non-issue on an unmagnified optic.
That's an interesting concept but would require a very large housing for the scope. Is it the Elcan?

Yep.

Geno
June 18, 2013, 11:57 PM
Love my Trijicon 1-4. Don't know that I would try 600 yards shots with it though. If for simple center of mass firing sure. I wouldn't hunt with it at those distances.

Geno

Orion8472
June 19, 2013, 11:00 AM
I have a Burris LRS TAC30 1-4 power scope that is very good. You have to mess with the eye adjustment a bit [depending on how good your eyes are]. The only time I see the difference in my left eye verse what my right eye is seeing is when I'm like VERY close to a target [a few feet]. Anything at a few yards on is good. And the 4x works well out at range. 600 yards? May be pushing any scope limited to 4x, but I would like to give it a go with mine, someday.

Shmackey
June 20, 2013, 10:23 AM
It's impossible to go wrong with the better (PST and above) Vortex scopes. Even the simple 1-4x PST on my M4 competes with scopes at twice the price. And the turrets match the reticle, which is too much to ask of some others.

Ar180shooter
June 20, 2013, 12:45 PM
dubbleA, is that yours? That paint job is awesome.

as i said, i think the vortex 1-4x is a good choice, but a post above reminded me of the Leupold 1-8x. That would be a very versatile scope. We all know leupold is gtg.
Only thing is the Leupold Mark 8 is over $3k...

JustinJ
June 20, 2013, 05:51 PM
I went with the Leupold VX-R Patrol after comparing it to the Trijicon and Vortex Viper. The Leupold only goes down to 1.25x but I find myself still able to use it both eyes open on minimum setting. I chose it over the Vortex because I found the glass to be clearer. I confirmed this by dialing each up to maximum power and seeing which allowed to me to read signs at the greater distance. The Trijicon and Leupold glass seemed about the same but I didn't care for the Vortex reticle.

If money were no object i'd have gone with either the Leupold Marx 6 or 8.

gotigers
June 20, 2013, 07:47 PM
Ar180shooter

Only thing is the Leupold Mark 8 is over $3k...


As i said, Leupold is gtg. lol.

allaroundhunter
June 20, 2013, 08:11 PM
As i said, Leupold is gtg. lol.

It might just be a personal thing, but I did not like the Leupold 1-8x. For me, the reticle was way too busy. Even below the $1500 mark there are multiple other scopes that I would pick up first (including the new Bushnells).

Hopkins
June 21, 2013, 07:25 AM
If you are looking for the best lenses, Zeiss Diavari 1.5x6 is hard to surpass.

henschman
June 22, 2013, 04:42 AM
I compared a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x and a Burris TAC30, and preferred the Burris. The Burris' glass is just as good (amazing actually, considering the price point), the reticle is a better design for the type of shooting you do with a 1-4x, and the illumination is actually true daylight visible, unlike the Viper. I've fired on man-sized targets out to 600 yards with the TAC30, with great results. I prefer the low profile capped turrets that can't be accidentally adjusted... I'm not going to be milling and dialing with a 1-4x. Some consider it a drawback, but I actually love how you twist the entire ocular housing to change magnification on the TAC30. I put skateboard tape around it, and it is extremely quick and easy to change. I greatly prefer it to having a big long cattail sticking out.

Woodsie
June 22, 2013, 10:18 AM
+1 for the Trijicon. I have one on my 6.8 and it is awesome. I shoot with both eyes open at 1x and it does great. At 4x you can reach pretty far out. But I agree with what was said earlier...I definitely wouldn't hunt with it at 600 yds.

taliv
June 22, 2013, 10:18 AM
Been playing with my new vortex 1-6 HD and I just like it more and more every time I pick it up. I have to up my previous statements: it is BETTER glass than the Swarovski z6i 1-6 and the field of view on 1x is just incredible.

I'm not a huge fan of the reticle (jerry miculeks) though it's not horrible. It's a bdc style and I'd just rather have a mil hash style.

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