Select Fire M14 in McMillan MFS-14 stock revew - controllable automatic M14?


PDA






Narwhal
June 16, 2013, 11:34 PM
Well, I finally got my Smith Enterprise Inc. M14 registered select fire project finished. I put it in an MFS-14 and had it bedded by M14 gunsmith "Warbird" who did a fine job. For the build I used an Enidine/Mesa shot shock recoil reducing buffer tube, a VLTOR emod buttstock, an SEI coast guard muzzle brake, a magpul RVG vertical grip, an ultimak forward rail, harris bipod, and an aimpoint comp M3. Originally it came in M14E2 congfiguration with the straight line wooden stock. The beauty of this build is that I can have it back in the Vietnam M14E2 config in about 5 minutes if desired.

I think I've succeeded in making the rifle controllable in full auto. I also filled the buttstock battery compartments up with lead fishing weights so that the rifle weighs about 15 pounds unloaded.

Doing 20 round mag dumps, at 100 yards prone I can keep about 60% of the rounds on a 18.5"x24" silhouette and at 25 yards standing it's also about 60% (11-12 rounds out of 20). I really like the ultimak and aimpoint setup, and overheating isn't a problem even though the entire rig gets very hot after a few mag dumps. Obviously, accuracy increases with 2 or 3 round bursts.

Here are some pictures with the barrel looking a little ashy after some mag dumps and some videos (sorry for the sideways second vid).

Video 1:

http://s973.photobucket.com/user/randomperson8008/media/P1000375.mp4.html

Video 2:

http://s973.photobucket.com/user/randomperson8008/media/P1000381.mp4.html

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/randomperson8008/mfs142.jpg

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/randomperson8008/mfs143.jpg

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/randomperson8008/mfs144.jpg

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/randomperson8008/mfs141.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Select Fire M14 in McMillan MFS-14 stock revew - controllable automatic M14?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Tommygunn
June 17, 2013, 11:42 AM
Verrrrry nice looking rifle there.
I recently bought a Springfield M1A (not an NFA weapon) so I am new to the world of the M-14 and .308 caliber.
I've always believed the full auto function in the M-14 was a mistake because most soldiers had trouble controling it in auto mode, but it looks like you may have come up with a good answer for it.

Would you mind explaining how the selector works, for someone like me who has never seen one in real life outside of photos?

And have you found there to be much difference between .308 and 7.62 X 51 Nato? A ballistic chart I have indicates a small difference in trajectory but I wonder about real-life experience people have with it.

Narwhal
June 17, 2013, 12:25 PM
Would you mind explaining how the selector works, for someone like me who has never seen one in real life outside of photos?

This video does a better job explaining everything than I ever could (the 22:45 mark goes into detail about how the rifle functions in automatic for several minutes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kgnh4neVaY
1Kgnh4neVaY

Here are some pictures of it close up that might also help. The switch is the notch on the right side of the receiver with the "A" on it. To go from auto to semi, you push "in" (toward the reciever) on the switch with a little bit of pressure, then rotate the switch clockwise (when viewed from the right) until it clicks (this will be about 180 degrees of rotation). To go back to auto you push in again and rotate back counterclockwise until it clicks. When the "A" is facing toward the buttstock, you know you're in auto mode.

As far as how it functions, there is a cube shaped extension on the bottom right side of select fire receivers that is part of the one piece forged receiver on GI rifles or in my rifle's case has been welded on as a conversion about 30 years ago. The selector switch, a sear release, and a "connector" rod are attached to this cube extension. In auto the connector rod gets hit by the op rod's forward motion. In turn, the connector forces the sear release into position to release the sear, which in turn releases the hammer, as soon as the bolt goes back into battery.

http://s10.postimg.org/7mydjcz49/100_0847.jpg

http://s8.postimg.org/c1mr9dbt1/100_0857.jpg


As far as the .308 vs 7.62x51mm issue, I use them interchangeably with the caveat that I don't use commercial .308 ammunition with bullets heavier than 180 grains in the M14, because they tend to be high pressure loads that can damage the op rod over long periods of time if used regularly.

Obviously the trajectory can vary quite a bit from brand to brand, bullet to bullet both within the .308 and 7.62x51 categories, which is natural when you have bullet weights varying from 110gr to 180gr+.

The most accurate ammunition in my rifles is M118LR 7.62x51mm surplus when I can find it. My M14's will eat just about any .308 or 7.62x51 reliably as long as the primer goes off and the powder ignites.

Tommygunn
June 17, 2013, 12:46 PM
Thank you for the information, and for posting those extra pix & the video; all that info is very helpful.;)

EDIT: I found the video of the M-14 cycle & Action is available on DVD from Amazon for $10.99, so I ordered a copy. It's always nice to have a actual presentation handy, sometimes it illustrates things that a instruction manual doesn't always do clearly.
Plus, it's firearms history! :D

wally
June 17, 2013, 02:59 PM
Make it as heavy as a BAR and drop it to about 600 rpm like the BAR and it'd likely have been as controllable as the BAR was.

I sure wish I could afford an M14 and the ammo to feed it :)

I've always thought it one of the best rifles ever, even if not very controllable in full auto, you can turn it off when every round has to count, but it'd sure make 'em keep their heads down.

Narwhal
June 17, 2013, 03:06 PM
Make it as heavy as a BAR and drop it to about 600 rpm like the BAR and it'd likely have been as controllable as the BAR was.
Well, it's within 1-2 pounds of the original M1918 BAR but still about 25% higher on the rate of fire obviously :) . I think the shot shock buffer tube takes a pretty big bite out of the recoil, subjectively it feels like felt recoil at the shoulder is at least 20-25% less than without it.

seanie!
June 17, 2013, 08:11 PM
I'm jealous.

Jim K
June 17, 2013, 08:52 PM
I have posted this before, but maybe it will be of interest to someone.

Just before I got out of the Army in 1957, I got a chance to fire an M14, two of which had been sent to Ft. Polk for "evaluation". I found the rifle in semi-auto to be a "kinder, gentler" M1, but not controllable in FA fire.

A few months later, I was at an AOA meeting in Washington and the Army had busses to take anyone who wanted to go up to Aberdeen PG so see the M14 being fired. They seated us in those aluminum football stands, and their PR guy gave us a spiel about how there were stories that the M14 was uncontrollable in FA fire, and we would be shown that it wasn't true. Out came the two demonstrators, two old MSGTs with about 90 years worth of hashmarks. They weren't tall, but each one looked like the Redskins' line - not a lineman, the line. Their arms were bigger than Roseanne Barr's thighs, and when they picked up those M14's, the rifles looked like toys.

Well, they fired a whole bunch of ammo, and I swear those rifles never moved - they were held down by about 900 pounds of prime beef. The Army PR guy assured us that the stories were untrue, and that the demonstration proved the M14 was controllable in FA fire. Somehow, I failed to be convinced, and a number of firings with the M14 in FA since has not changed my mind.

Now if one builds up a special rifle, using a lot of tricks, then it probably can do what is claimed. But it is not an M14.

Jim

4v50 Gary
June 17, 2013, 10:28 PM
The second clip with you shooting it offhand is impressive. I never thought the M-14/M-15 could be tamed on full fun.

medalguy
June 18, 2013, 11:38 AM
I'll agree with Jim. A stock M14 in full auto is not really "controlled fire", at least mine isn't. I like the idea of adding about a hundred pounds of weight to the thing, kinda like putting the beast on a tripod. I always wanted to try to make a tripod adapter for the M14 to see how that would work. Anyone ever tried that?

Narwhal
June 18, 2013, 12:49 PM
I'll agree with Jim. A stock M14 in full auto is not really "controlled fire", at least mine isn't. I like the idea of adding about a hundred pounds of weight to the thing, kinda like putting the beast on a tripod. I always wanted to try to make a tripod adapter for the M14 to see how that would work. Anyone ever tried that?
Sure, there are Picatinny rail adapters for tripods.

Sage International makes one, here it is pictured with an M14:

http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/SIL/762NCSM.html
http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/SIL/images/762NCSM-BIG4.jpg

Presumably it could be used with any weapon that had a rail on the bottom of the stock/forend/handguard. Sage used to have a video with a guy shooting an M14 EBR from one but I can't find it anymore.

It's probably not that useful on something like the M14 seeing as how if you fire more than about 60 rounds in a minute you're going to need to let it cool down for awhile or you're going to start doing heat damage to the barrel. The indefinite sustained rate of fire is only 20 rpm according to the US government. Not to mention a good tripod and the necessary adapters seem to run well in the 4 figures in cost. Plus I feel like my setup is adequately controllable from the harris bipod. I'm not saying I'd turn it down if I could find a smoking deal on a tripod and adapter though! It'd give me an excuse to find something even better to mount on it :)

Narwhal
June 18, 2013, 01:18 PM
The second clip with you shooting it offhand is impressive. I never thought the M-14/M-15 could be tamed on full fun.
Thanks! I'm tempted to have my sister (the camerawoman) try it ;)

JShirley
June 18, 2013, 03:52 PM
What have you done to that beautiful rifle? :(


Interesting experiment, though. What I gather from this is that a M14 as heavy as a BAR could be similarly controllable.

Narwhal
June 18, 2013, 04:21 PM
What have you done to that beautiful rifle? :(


Interesting experiment, though. What I gather from this is that a M14 as heavy as a BAR could be similarly controllable.
Haha, yeah - it's "utilitarian" looking. But - this is one of the reasons I went with the McMillan as opposed to the Troy MCS or Sage EBR chasis systems - I can have it back in this configuration in about 5 minutes with a few allen wrenches should I feel the need. The Troy and Sage both require proprietary op rod guides and other parts removal.

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae219/randomperson8008/e21.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Select Fire M14 in McMillan MFS-14 stock revew - controllable automatic M14?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!