[chaim]

OK guys, sorry it took me so long (both to shoot it and to get back to you guys to report about it). I finally shot my S&W 57 about 2 weeks ago for the first time, and I shot it the second time last Sunday.

If you remember, I thought I'd try out the .41mag because I wanted a big bore (and I like magnums, at least the .357) but the .44mag can be a little too much for me. I figured that with the smaller caliber (compared to the .44mag) out of an N-frame revolver it should be a good middle ground between the .357 and .44 (and that is part of the reason it was made to begin with).

Well, when I posted about this here, I got everything from the .41 mag is more comfortable than .357, to it is more than .357 but much less recoil than the .44, most seemed to see little difference in felt recoil however. This had me a bit "guarded" but I was looking forward to it.

Well, I finally shot it, and it wasn't what I expected....In a way I was kind of disappointed.

I was expecting the recoil to be very similar to .44mag. Well, it was far more comfortable than what I remember from last time I shot a .44 (though that was long enough ago I could be wrong and I may like .44mag now if I tried it again- at least that's what I'm telling myself so I have an excuse for another gun soon :evil: ). The recoil, while strong, was not at all unpleasant- kind of like the .45acp, it is stronger than the smaller caliber (9mm in the .45acp case, .357 in this case) but it is less sharp and pretty comfortable. I may have to do a back to back with the .357mag (in my 6" L-frame) because, while heavier, I think it may have a more pleasant recoil. In fact, it was a blast and I may have a new favorite caliber.


Oh, what was the disappointment- I am a huge .357 fan, and if it does turn out that I like the .41 mag better I am disappointed that I need to revamp my revolver "collection" a bit (I'll need to lean towards .41mag for future purchases, and there are still .357s I want), and I'm disappointed that I had to pick such an expensive caliber (arrgh! $13 for 20 rounds is the best local price I've found so far:cuss: ). I'm also disappointed that I waited so long to finally try it out.

Hmm, should I get myself a Taurus Tracker in .41mag, Taurus 441 (2" snub)- edit: make that 415, Taurus Raging Bull in .41mag (good woods gun), used S&W 58 or another 57 for my next revolver? Being a 3" K-frame fan, maybe I should get the Tracker (either a 4" or 6") and have a smith cut and recrown the barrel to 3". Anyone know of a 3" medium frame revolver from the factory that comes in .41mag? Me neither.

I'm definately going to need to pick up some .41mag reloading dies.



Edit:

I almost forgot...some specific shooting observations. The 57 was quite accurate for me once I got used to it. In fact, I did sort of ok at 25yrds (and I usually don't shoot handguns beyond 25-50 feet), and at my more usual 20-50 feet I did very well. The recoil did give the gun a pronounced muzzle rise, but nothing unmanagable. Some .44mags I've shot in the past had pretty violent muzzle rise and recoil, my .41mag was noticable, but controlled and comfortable (it seemed heavy, but slower and not very abrupt). Maybe it was the difference between the nice wood target grips on my 57 and the rubber on the rental 629s I've shot, but it is probably the caliber.

The gun itself is in great shape. It locks up wonderfully, timing is perfect, and the blue...the blue is absolutely beautiful. Man those blued N-frames, I'm not sure my P&R M19 has as deep a blue. I definately need to pick up some more N-frames ASAP. I think this may have spawned a new phase to my shooting (I need more .41mags, I need more N-frames).

Edit again: I accidentally called the Taurus 415 the 441. The 415 is the 2.5" .41mag, the 441 is a K-frame sized, adjustable sight .44spl. :o

[ACP230]

I've been shooting the .41 Magnum for about 10 years.
I was always more interested in it than in the .44, for some reason.

I started out with a blued six-inch M57 and went on to own two Ruger Redhawks in .41. One is a blue five-incher which I need to shoot again soon. The other is a stainless gun with the seven and a half inch barrel.

My most recent buy is a Smith 657 with the eight and three eighths inch barrel. I bought it last month and haven't shot it yet due to the snow remaining in stubborn residence on our local ranges.

My guns have fired a few Winchester Silvertips, and some Remington factory 210 grain LSWC and JHPs. Most of their diet has been my reloads with 210 or 215 grain LSWC over enough Unique to push them at about 1,000 fps. I used these loads in bowling pin matches and the pins left the table pronto, and in a shower of splinters.

I have several .357 and .38 revolvers. When I want to shoot easy inexpensive loads I use a .38 or .357. When I'm in the mood for some loud fun, I call on a .41.

:cool:

[Erich]

Chaim, when you start reloading for it, you're going to like the .41 even more . . . to the detriment of the .357. Sorry. For one thing, it's just so much simpler to handle the fatter cases/bullets. Then there's how well the .41 does with reloads . . .

I actually have one of those Taurus 2.5" 415 Ti 21-ounce snubs. Surprisingly not awful to shoot, but not pleasant by any stretch of the imagination. It's a heck of an easy gun to carry. I might pick up a 4" Ti Tracker one of these days, too.

What did Q say in that Ian Fleming book (albeit about the .38 Centennial - certainly applies to the 415 Ti)? "Only holds five shots to keep the weight down, but when they're gone - somebody's been killed." :evil:

[cratz2]

Another thing to keep in mind as far as recoil goes, is different loads can have dramatically different felt recoils... I'm sure you already know this, but since you didn't mention having tried different loads... just thought I'd throw it out there. What were you shooting, by the way?

There used to be a guy that shot about a 5" Smith 41 Magnum (don't recall the model) at pin matches quite successfully. I shot six rounds out of it with his pin loads and I thought it was very comfortable. Just a touch heavier than strong 357 loads, but like you said, more of a big boom and probably a bit less muzzle rise. Definately less than any 44 Magnum I've ever shot including the long 8" barrels, certainly less than any 4" 44 magnum.

Glad you like it... I'm starting to look for something in 41 Magnum and as you mentioned, something smaller than an N frame and with about a 3" barrel sounds about perfect.

:D

[munk]

The first handgun I owned was a .41 About ten years later I got a .44 to see if I was missing anything. I dislike the .44 with 240 gr bullets. To me it's like hitting a baseball with the wrong part of the bat. But with 300 gr bullets the 44 settles right down.

I've owned six .41's and have three now. I only own one .44

It seems with time a lot of the opinions about 'better' I had so strongly 17 years ago have faded. I like them all; .41, .44, and .45 Colt.

Still, the two woods guns I reach for are either a .41 or .45 Colt, and I suppose that defines me.

I would like to get an N frame 357 someday.

I can't imagine not handloading. Especially for the odd pair- 45 and 41


munk

[JShirley]

I only have one .41, a 3" 657... so far. ;) A .45 Colt is definitely on my list, but I would appreciate having one that could stamp some heavy loads, unlike the current N frame.

Georgia Arms makes good loads for the .41. For 50 rounds of 210 grain HP, the price is about $16, IIRC. Goes down a little with quantity...Or, if you want to shoot their softball lead loads.

...Here ya go: http://www.georgia-arms.com/pistol.htm

[BigG]

I bought a nickel Model 57 several years after buying my first Model 29.

Firing Factory Magnum ammunition Jacketed 210 grain bullet, the 41 Mag was noticeably less violent in recoil than the identical Model 29 firing 240 grain jacketed ammo. The Mod 57 is a pretty nice little gun, imho. I sold it in a moment of brain fade, but since I wanted bragging rights, I kept the Model 29. The excuse I console myself with is the other guy always says, "Well, it's not a 44, but it is a 41. That's pretty big!" :evil:

Congrats on your nice S&W MAGNUM! :cool:

[madhatta]

I also really like the .41 mag. It may very well be my favorite caliber. Definitely tied with the .45colt for favorite revolver caliber.
If you are looking for a woods gun- try the tracker. I like mine A LOT.
I think you would find the Raging Bull to be a bit too large for a woods gun.

[Ben Shepherd]

The best thing would be to sight it for 0 at 75 yards.

Before you call me nuts go look up trajectories of some of the more common loads. You should be on a 6" pie plate from the muzzle out to 100 yards.

Handloading:

I recommend clays universal and lead SWC for plinking, N110 and HCSWC or hornadys XTP for serious work.
N110 is kinda expensive, but in my redhawk it's extremely clean, runs the XTPs as fast as I want to go, and the accuracy is almost scary.

[munk]

My complaint about 110, 296, AA9 and etc are the velocity and pressure variations with extreme weather- hot or cold. When I lived in the Mojave it was heat, now its mostly cold.

I actually have found that H or IMR 4227 gives excellent accuracy with only a modest loss of velocity from the high mark of H110

anyonelse tried red dot powder for practise loads of 215 gr SWC in 800 to 1000fps range?



munk

[chaim]

Another thing to keep in mind as far as recoil goes, is different loads can have dramatically different felt recoils... I'm sure you already know this, but since you didn't mention having tried different loads... just thought I'd throw it out there. What were you shooting, by the way?
Yeah, I'm aware that different loads can have a major impact on felt recoil. It is possible that much of the difference I've felt v. the .44mag is I've only shot range rentals for the .44mag so I had to go with their choice of ammo- it may not have been the more gentle loads. Anyway, in the 57 I've tried two loads so far- mostly the Winchester Silvertips (175gr) and I forget for sure what the other was (I think it was PMC but I'm not sure).



Georgia Arms makes good loads for the .41. For 50 rounds of 210 grain HP, the price is about $16, IIRC. I may give the Georgia Arms a try. However, when I have the time and think about it enough to plan ahead enough to buy online I should be able to plan ahead enough to reload. I was hoping to find something cheaper locally for when I need something at the last moment because I didn't reload. Still, simply for something different, or when I want to get more brass (I like to buy ammo and keep the brass rather than buy virgin brass- it is more fun) I may go with the Georgia Arms.

[Majic]

Munk we are like peas in a pod. I've owned .41's for over 15 years. Now have 3 (always looking for more) and only one .44mag. If things really need horsepower then I grab either the Bisley or Anaconda in .45 Colt.
H110 is great if you can count on mother nature to behave. Temperature extremes do strange things with it (raise or lower pressures depending on when loaded and when shot). 4227 (h or IMR) is a very pleasant powder recoil wise while giving up little in velocity. I use a lot of Unique for mid power loads and even found a nice AA-2 load that will make it behave like a .38sp wadcutter. XTP's are great bullets, but I believe the old Speer half jacketed SWC were the best of the bunch (I sure do miss those). Mainly mine are fed home brewed cast SWCs. The 250gr SWC that I cast has become my go to bullet with a 195gr SWC for light plinking. Now I must get one of the heavier bullet molds or have one made to work with. I think that a 275 to 285 grainer should work well.

There is great potential in the .41mag cartridge, but the ammo makers sell it short. Give us some lighter and heavier bullets, load it up to it's full potential and down for pleasant plinking then it will give the .44mag a run for it's money. We .41 shooters are not just small blocks running in a big block race. We are big blocks that the factory saddled us with restrictor plates. We have the guns, now give us the ammo and bullets that are needed.

[Trapdoor_1875]

chaim,

I bought my 57 back in 1978 to hunt hogs. I don't get to shoot it that much any more, but hope to when I retire in a couple of years.

Used to reload ammo back in the early '80s and may get back into it soon.

I normally shoot Remington "Green Box" 210 gr. but just bought some Winchester Silver and Platinum loads. The Platinum hollow points are 240 gr. with about the muzzle velocity of 240 gr. 44 magnum.

I just bought a Marlin 1894FG in .41 magnum a couple of weeks ago and am in the process of breaking it in. All three of the commercial loads work great in the Marlin.

I think you will really enjoy your 57 when you work up some good reloads for it.

Carl

[munk]

I had no idea we had so much in common, Majic.
The speer 220 three quarter jacketed bullet was great. I haven't looked in awhile but last time I checked it was still made. It is accurate.
Like everyone- I usually go XTP.

I also use Unique, about 7 gr though have gone up and down. Reddot is my other- I think I read about it in the duo handgun test put out by DBI iin the 90's- Clapp and Grinnell (sic) and even Venturino. (not that I am fond o MV)

I have a load for a 300 gr in a 44 that is slow. It is like throwing rocks. But I can get 5 shots under an inch at 25 yards. I couldn't find any slow data for heavy 44 so I made my own up.
My Bisley is a .41

How are your .45 chambers in your Bis? ONe reason I never looked too hard at the excellent Redhawk in 45 colt was because after two New Models with big chambers I didn't think Ruger would change the spec any on the double action. Am I right?

The problem with the .41, if it is a problem, is the rate of twist needs to be sped up a bit. This would allow more accurate shooting of the heavier 41 slugs. I haven't tried Federal's 250 bomber or the other slightly bigger rounds commercially loaded. I've thought for years someone should make a 235 gr. I think one of the 'handcannon" guys did the hunting bullet write up in an Older Sierra manual, and he said the capacity of the 41 tops out at about 270 (if I recall correctly, I don't have the book in front of me) I understand Freedom Arms makes the .41 with a more desirable twist. I shouldn't have to spend a grand just to enjoy that, though.


munk

[Majic]

My .45 Bisley (the 5.5 stainless) has Ruger's now famous tight throats (old Bill went from one extreme to the other). I need to have them reamed, but since my Anaconda has .454" throats I will have them reamed to that other than the .452" to save confusion in bullets.
I use an old Lee 240gr SWC mold for the .41 caliber that drops bullets at 250gr +/- a grain or 2 with my mix and neither my 7 1/2" Bisley or my 5.5" Bisley have had any problems with those. I've shot that bullet at short range (15 yards) with no keyholing and all the way out to 300 yards on the gongs at the rifle range. Now don't get the idea I can hit that 10" gong every time, but on good days i could hit it a a few times out of each cylinder full. I have seen an advertisement once of 275gr molds, but have since lost it. Bear Tooth has a 280 grainer I'm thinking about trying. They also have a 265 and 300 grainers.
I to would like a Freedoms Arm, but unfortunately my pockets have bottoms. My little 3" M657 just gets the light 195 grainers. It turns into a real beast when you crank up the horsepower.

To bad we have so many miles between us, we could keep some .41mags happy. :D

[munk]

I can't believe you have all those bisleys. In 41 I have a 7.5" Blue Redhawk, a 4" nickel 57, and the previously mentioned 7.5" Bisley.

the principle of staying within normal saami spec for pressure with magnums makes the ruger 480 very attractive to me. A bisley super black hawk hunter in 480 would be great. I saw they had some special runs of .45 colt and 41.
I am concerned the cylinder is too small for that cartridge in that weapon, though, and may never appear.

munk

[munk]

forget to ask, Majic- it's not the throats I worry about- it the chamber size. Saami spec on the 45 allows many extra thousands for the case to slop around.

I also own a New Model ss 4 5/8 " 45 that I cut the grip frame to and made my own handles before Ruger came out with the Birds head. I sold another 7.5 45 I had.

munk

[41 magnum fan]

I too am a huge 41 magnum fan.The 41 magnum is more pleasant to shoot and is a lot more accurate than the 44 magnums that I have owned.The 41 is very effective on game too,even when loaded on the light side.I use 41 magnums for everything including a daily carry gun.My favorite 41 magnum revolver is my three mountain guns,my second favorite is my Lew Horton 3" 657.You definitly need to reload to gain the full potential that the 41 is capable of.

[caz223]

My friends call me the .41 man.
I have what I'd consider a few guns, but my favorites are 10mm, and .41 magnum, and if I had to pick one, the .41s would stay.
I have a 4 5/8" blackhawk .41 with a red dot. Excellent shooter, and my overall favorite to date. This one is the gun that all the others get compared to. Anyway, that's (1)
(2) Taurus 425 4" tracker .41 stainless.
(3) Circa 2000-2001 657 hunter S&W 7 1/2" stainless unfluted.
Red dot, unfluted cylinder, nice trigger, good shooter.
(4) .41 mag super blackhawk hunter, around a 7" barrel, I forget exactly.
Don't shoot it much, for some reason. Maybe it's too heavy.
(5) Acusport bisley 5 1/2" barrel stainless, unfluted cylinder, nice rollmark, custom grips, very nice, well mannered shooter, but lacks the build quality found in rugers from just a few years ago. Couldn't even pull the hammer back when the gun was new, until I took it apart, cleaned it, and removed all the little bits of metal floating about the action.
(6) And that brings me to my most recent acquisition. A 3" lew horton 657 circa 1986, round butt, wood finger grooved grips, I've been too busy to shoot it yet, like a few of my recent pieces, but this one's at the top of my list.

Basically, the .41 is an enthusiast cartridge that was originally designed to be what the .40S&W is today, but in a revolver, and in the mid-sixties.
The originators wanted a .41 special, if you will, but got the .41 magnum instead.
Makes me wonder why the .41 special never came out, but the magnum didn't sell well, so I guess that was the end of that.
If you like the .357 magnum, but favor big-bores, the .41 magnum, and .45 colt are where it's at for reloading flexability.
The .44 isn't bad, either, but the bigger magnum can be harder on your joints, and having the extra power doesn't really help downrange, unless you're shooting something that is really tough.
All in all, I'd consider 9mm, and .357 magnum good for target practice and grins, but the 10mm, and .41 are premium entertainment, and I always smile when I shoot them. No idea why.

If something makes you happy, and you don't do it, and are unhappy, it's your own fault. You are responsible for your own happiness.
Me?
I'm happy. :p

[munk]

I suspect the people who believe the responsibility for being happy lies within oneself are correct. But there is no good alternative. What else are we going to do? I'm not certain that makes it 100 percent accurate, though . I sure liked the writing and the thought.

........

Yes, the originators wanted a police round of a 1000 fps or so, enough frontal diameter to say "howdy' and some weight. Why the 44 special could not have done these things......

But I'm glad it is here, this 41. It is my favorite handgun cartridge.


munk

[BluesBear]

The .41 Magnum is my all time favorite centerfire revolver cartridge.

But you really have to handload to get the most out of it.
Thankfully the ammo companies are starting to accept the facts that there are a lot of us out here. I am looking forward to getting some of the new Speer .41 magnum. If anyone here has any of the old Speer ammo I'd like to buy some to do comparison testing with.

The new Winchester Platinum ammo is GREAT stuff too.


I'd also like to find some old 210 lead SWC Remington or Winchester ammo.

[M58]

For a long time I used Unique for the .41; recently I have used Herco; it is cleaner. Well almost everything is cleaner than Unique?
Great fun caliber.

[BluesBear]

M58!!

Where in the heck have you been? :confused: We have missed you greatly.

Welcome back! :)

[M58]

Thank you kind sir!
Been in alternate universe annoying aliens.:evil:

[Ben Shepherd]

The Federal cast core 250gr. load isn't too weak in the knees, and is always availble around here, even if a little pricey.

[gunfan]

A .41 Remington Magnum load consisting of a 155-grain Gold Dot hollow point, cruising out of a 4" vented test barrel (revolver simulation) @ 1300 fps. This load would mimic a realtively spicy 10mm Automatic load. This would yield about 1250 fps from a 2" barreled revolver and 1350 fps from a 6" barreled revolver.

With these ballistics you would obtain fight-stopping performance with increased controllability. Since the .41 Remington Magnum is seeing a certain vogue in snub-nosed revolvers, this load would see a great deal of use in those that carry the "mid-bore maggie."

The manufacturer is considering production when the other projects upon which he is working is completed.

Scott

[grendelbane]

I would like to see a .41 Mag with a 190 grain JHP. Velocity should be in the neighborhood of 950 FPS from a 4" barrel.

Sectional density comes pretty close to a 230 grain .45, or a 180 grain .40. Should offer plenty of penetration, with a minumum of muzzle blast and recoil.

It might be possible to produce this as a .41 Special, or, even as a .41 Russian.

Then we need a 658 S&W to shoot it in.

Or, just resume production on the 58. I love mine, and would buy another one in a heartbeat.

The 696 might be large enough to take such a load also. That would rock!

[munk]

Doesn't Speer still make a 180 gr hollow point? What's wrong with that? (or was it 170?)

munk

[gunfan]

Overpenetration and "conic" expansion. The manufacturer and I were seeking a "violent' expansion. These slugs could be driven at higher velocities to be used on varmints through .41 Remington Magnum-chambered rifles and long-barreled revolvers. These are two different loadings for the same slug for two entirely different purposes.

Is that sufficient elucidation?

Scott

[munk]

Not really.
The Speer explodes violently and it is recomended that the round not be used for big game. Speer stops listing loads for it past a certain velocity- not pressure.
At the modest velocities you suggest it would be easy to shoot. expand admirably, still penetrate without over penetration.

munk

[Majic]

Would a 155 grain bullet have enough bearing surface to give adequate support for decent accuracy? The .41mag, being a large framed magnum handgun shouldn't be saddled with the spitting distance accuracy we see so much of today. If it was in a full wadcutter design I believe it would work, but as a hollow pointed design with the attending oglive there's not much left for a bearing surface.

[BluesBear]

I don't recall seeing a 155gr Speer Gold Dot in .410".

Have I missed something?

Even if they did make it... I can use a 158gr in a /357 magnum and have a better b/c. The slightly longer length to diameter ratio in a specific weight is why I prefer the .41 to the .44.


Based on 25 years of using and loading for the .41 mag, a 170-180gr bullet is my idea of a superior light bullet/high velocity loading.


By the way, if anyone is looking for a nice 4" .41 magnum barrel, I have an early bright blued one from a Model 58 available.

[caz223]

grendelbane, they make such a beast.
Well, not exactly.
It's shooting .40 S&W out of a smith 610!
The 610 of current manufacture is a really nice revolver, and the 10mm/.40 combo is really hard to beat.
Moonclips, baby.
Or if you reload, you can load 10mm down a little and still wind up with an accurate, well mannered sweet shooter.

[gunfan]

The difference between a .40 and .41 caliber is quite slight. Just think, a lightweight .41 Remington Magnum with the punch of a hot 10mm Automatic, less recoil than the hotter "magnum" rounds and lighning-fast expansion. This is the ticket that those of the ".41 Special" persuasion are seeking, with 'modern' ballistics.

Scott ;)

[Majic]

Gunfan,
Most .41 Special seekers I have talked with don't want a light, hot round. The 175gr Silvertip has been covering that base for a very long while. What is wanted is a light to medium weight bullet traveling no more than 900fps. That will put it in the same catergory as the .38sp and the .44sp. It could then serve as a target or plinker round.
I am no fan of the fly weight handguns firing hot rounds that seems to be the latest fad on the market today. Give me a solid, accurate handgun firing a cartridge which would be fun shooting without enduring pain in the process.
Everything is not about "combat". Hunting and combat have already been addressed with the magnum version. I would like a pleasant shooting target/plinker version to be developed. That would be worthy of the name "Special".

[BluesBear]

Well put Majic.

Can I get an AMEN! ?

[munk]

Most of us practise with a 210, 215 semi wadcutter at 800 to 1000 fps which just about is the old police round.

I don't want a 155 gr splatter.

What I want is a 235 to 250 gr component hunting bullet.



munk

[grendelbane]

I am on record as wanting a 190 grain JHP at 950 fps. This would be similar ballistics to the old lead police round, which I have not seen in years. I wish some one would swage some soft lead bullets so I could replicate those!

Currently, I am loading Remington 200 grain JHP over 8 grains of Unique. This makes for a mild, extremely accurate load. Expansion is not reliable, however. The jacket should be notched, or scalloped, and the cavity probably needs to be slightly larger. The 180 grain .40 bullets will expand at the velocities that I want, so it is just a matter of making a similar bullet a hundredth of an inch larger.

My model 58 shoots well with cast bullets, but I still want something just a tad bit better.

[munk]

Speer has the 180. I'm assuming you want a commercial load, though.




munk

[M58]

Wish Speer made a .410 Gold Dot.
I would love that as a defensive load.
Now I have Silvertips or XTPs.

[BluesBear]

M58 said;
Wish Speer made a .410 Gold Dot.
M58, they do!
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=819674
They are claiming 1280 fps from a 4" vented barrel.

Read more about it here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67007).

[grendelbane]

The Gold Dot should make a great hunting bullet. However, we already had some great hunting bullets for the .41. 1280 fps is more than I want. I want something a little calmer that will be more suitable for the .41's intended purpose.

A 190 grain JHP has the same sectional density as a 180 grain 10mm, or a 230 grain .45. This provides enough weight to ensure adequate penetration. Remington could just scale up their 180 grain .40 Golden Saber.

Yes, I have a 3" 610. Unfortunately, for some silly reason, 180 grain JHP's shoot lower when fired from .40 S&W cases than they do when fired from 10mm cases. The 610 on the right side, and a P229 on the left side gives me the best of both worlds.

[JOE MACK]

:scrutiny: Hmmm. Looks like a good bullet. I'd like to see a 240 and 165gr offering. Hopefully, they'll bring the GDs out as components. I've hoarded a supply of their 180gr.JHP for my .41AE and .41Avenger. This would be a good bullet for my .41Specials at around 900-1000fps. Good fodder for the 657Mountain gun and 657 3 inch I've got in the safe. This is encouraging as far as the .41Magnum goes. Heh, maybe we can get a hydro-shock before long. :what:

[JShirley]

155 HP @ 1300 fps is just a decent .40 S&W round. Even with stupid reduced mags, I can get the same performance from various manufacturers, with 11 rounds on tap, instead of 6, if that's what I wanted. Part of the point of wheelguns, especially large ones, is to get a round you can't get from an autopistol. Hell, Georgia Arms- who typically doesn't "push the envelope" on their loadings, to keep them well within safe pressures- offers a 155 grain 10mm @ 1375 fps.

180 grain JHP @ 1300 or so would be more to my liking...or 165 @ 1375...

[M58]

Blues,
Thanks!
Very cool.

[munk]

Yes, Mr. Shirley!! But next to strength, among the virtues offered by a revolver is versatility. One can fire a slower velocity bullet if one wanted to. The accuracy and recoil managment might well make up for having only six shots. Six is still a good number in a world where confrontations are decided by one, or even two.

But I don't want a 155 gr, and agree with you a heavier slug at the same or less velocity is a very good thing, indeed.

For people outdoors, and people trapped in the big City- a powerful penetrating bullet sometimes is the best choice- for Bear or Car Doors.



munk

[gunfan]

What is being proposed, in this case, is a "man stopper" that will not overpenetrate, yet will cause a maximum disruption of tissue and vital organs. This is NOT a round being used for hunting anything besides humans and varmints.

The people that live in an urban setting, and those carying the short-barreled Taurus revolvers the antipersonnel option that will best serve thir needs. This is a round specifically tailored for these purposes, nothing more.

Scott

[Majic]

Well I see there are several differnt camps on this subject. I still think that a medium weight bullet of light construction pushed at a moderate 900fps will do the same job of a light weight bullet driven at hyper velocities, and be more versatile for other uses. The recoil should be about the same and the ammo makers could kill 2 birds with one stone. Designing a load to perform just one job for the very limited revolvers of that class found in the world today wouldn't be very profitable and we most likely won't see it. On the other hand if they give us a load that can be used for self defence, but still makes the target/plinker usage viable then they could sell a lot more of them.
Although I have .41s ranging in barrel size from 7 1/2" down to 3", there are a lot more shooters out there with the longer barreled guns. Why just address the concerns of the lesser crowd when there is a way to serve the entire community with just one load? The old police load would be about perfect with the advance jacketed bullets of today.

[munk]

Majic read my mind and printed the results.





munk

[JShirley]

Yeah. It was a short post, too. :neener: :evil:

John

[munk]

What do you think the fascination is with the 155 gr? The 41's version of the flying ashtray? I wonder if the 155 has even less of a BC than the 185 45acp.


munk

[JShirley]

When I was younger, I contemplated it, as well.

135 grain .40 projectile evidently makes quite a mess, and 155 grain lightly constructed .41 should do the same at reasonable velocities.

I keep coming back to this idea of balance, though. That means, in the projectile realm, that the lightest and heaviest, slowest and fastest rounds for a caliber probably all have unacceptable drawbacks. The fastest possible rounds will have dimished returns for what you're exacting from the frame and shooter. The slowest rounds in many calibers do not work as (these are often the heaviest, as well) reliably.

Hell, there may be situations where this does not hold true. One day I'm going to write a magazine article titled "The Mighty Middleweights", or some such. 200 grain .45 ACP, 155 and 165 grain .40, and maybe 124 grain 9x19 and .357. I reckon a 170 or so .41 would fit in there.

John

[BluesBear]

I wish someone would resurrect the old .41 Magnum "Police" loading. perhaps using a hard cast bullet to aleviate the leading problem.

I used to load the old Speer 200gr ½ jacketed SWC-HP over a moderate charge to get 900-1000fps in my 4" Model 58. Same velocities with the Sierra 170gr showed great promise also.

I search every gunshow looking for some of the old lead SWC .41 Magnum ammo.
:( It's getting very hard to find. :(

[grendelbane]

I too used to load the old Speer hollow points. Not too sure how they would look to the gelatin shooting crowd. Probably too much penetration, and not enough expansion.

Midway sells a Remington 200 grain JHP. I am not sure why Remington produces this bullet, as I do not think they use it in their cartridges. Over 8 grains of Unique it is mild shooting and extremely accurate. It is not going fast enough to expand reliably, however. Raising the velocity gets the bullet performing, but then flash and recoil are back. We definitely need a 190 grain, (matching the sectional density of the 180 grain .40 and the 230 grain .45), with a thin, serrated or scalloped jacket. They make plenty of bullets like that for the .40 S&W, why not just one for the .41 mag?

Yes, I know. They are afraid it will not sell. They might be surprized, I see lots of cartridges selling that I think have very little utility. I may go into production myself, since their is no competition. Would anyone be interested in buying .41 190 JHP & a .41 swaged lead semi wadcutter, and maybe even a full wad cutter?:D

[munk]

Yes, especially if they're cheap. It's not Black Magic. Oregon Trail is going crazy with some pricing.






munk

[grendelbane]

Cheap!:what:

Small startup cos. can't do anything cheap! I would have to quit my day job.

Seriously, some one should at least produce a swaged lead SWC, to replace the old lead load. Hornady makes a swaged lead .40, how many people shoot swaged lead in their .40s and 10mms?

Dies should be no problem, but competition from bullet casters is. I just wish that they would cast some of those nice .41 bullets out of a slightly softer alloy. Moderate loads do not require hard bullets.

The quest continues.

[munk]

The Quest for happiness?



munk

[Majic]

A swaged LSWC would be great, especially if we could convince Corbin to make their Base Guard in .41 caliber. I got a chance to use the Base Guards on swaged bullets once in a .44sp and it did a fine job of eliminating leading with velocities up to 1000fps.

[Jarhed]

Digging up an old subject. For years I've had a Model 57 S&W in the wood case. Its never been fired except for 3 cylinders for test at S&W. Its nickle plated and just georgeous. It was given to me by my Dad who traded something and didn't like hand guns too much. Anyway, Dad passed on a while back and I see his old gun there, never shot it, sure is pretty, know where I'm going with this? This is the only nickle gun I've ever owned. Can ya think of any reason I shouldn't fire it. I'm never going to sell it, cause it will always be Dads gun.

Honestly, I'm shocked to see so many posts on this thread. I've NEVER met anyone that has owned a .41 hell, most people have never even heard of a .41 Mag.

Anyway would sure apreciate you guys thoughts on this, any advice on the nickle thing. Don't know a thing about it.

[halvey]

Glad you like your .41. I miss mine.

But, the caliber consolodation went well and is still going strong.

[tulsamal]

My M58 is about the 600th one produced. Wearing the original numbered diamond grips. The M57 is a nice gun as well and that one came with such pretty factory grips.

I would say .41 Magnum and .44 Special are my two favorite revolver loads. And I do wish for a .41 Special. I wanted S&W to make the 696 in .41 Magnum but there did seem to be questions about that. So just do it in .41 Special! Then we just need CorBon and a couple others to make ".41 Special +P" loads with Gold Dots or something similiar. I might trade in my M296 in .44 Special if such a thing actually existed!

I'm keeping my eyes open for one of the new Marlins in .41 as well!

Gregg

http://homepage.mac.com/greggg/41_Mag/57_58_2.jpg

[thatguy]

On paper the 41 is about 12% less than the 44. With full loads I don't feel any difference in recoil but both of my 41s have 4 inch barrels and the one 44 I own has a 6.5 inch barrel so maybe the extra weight of the longer tube on the 44 makes up the difference and makes them feel the same. Both are plainly heavier in recoil than the hottest 357 loads I shoot.

The 41 is not as versatile as the 44 with smaller bullet selection for reloading and fewer options in factory loads. It's not a good choice if you don't reload.

But, 41 owners tend to be very loyal and love their guns and the caliber. If I had to choose only one I think the 44 makes more sense but luckily I can have both.

[BluesBear]

Jarhed,

We discuss this quite often.

Click here to read the most recent thread. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1256464)

You'll find a LOT of us .41 Magnum Lovers here on The High Road.

[grendelbane]

Anyway would sure apreciate you guys thoughts on this, any advice on the nickle thing.

I had a 6" nickel model 57, but due to a temporary loss of sanity I sold it.

Very accurate. If you don't reload, Georgia Arms is a good source of cartridges.

As far as the nickel goes, observe the warnings given by Hoppes if you plan to use their #9 bore cleaner. Other bore cleaners may have similar warnings. I never had any problem with mine, but I was always careful to heed the warnings.