Shooting out a boresnake brush?


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lykoris
June 18, 2013, 11:01 AM
I would like those with the knowledge of shooting blanks of whether this is feasible in terms of building pressure to dislodge a .30 cal boresnake brush which is confirmed to be halfway down the barrel of a .22 cal semi-auto.

I was thinking of starting with a primer and then gradually building up the grains, I want to know if pressure can be built to shoot it out?? :confused:

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WoodchuckAssassin
June 18, 2013, 11:05 AM
Oh you'll build pressure in it alright...maybe enough to put a nice little bulge in your barrel.

NEVER try to dislodge a blocked barrel by shooting ANYTHING down it. Even the low powder pressure of a blank can do real damage to a gun...and possibly the person holding it :(

Catpop
June 18, 2013, 11:11 AM
I agree with "NEVER TRY TO SHOOT AN OBSTRUCTION OUT OF A BORE!". Good way to have to visit a gunsmith later you're lucky, hospital if only half lucky and funeral if not lucky at all!

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 11:12 AM
Yup.
Sounds like you need a brass rod to drive that thing out.
Now I wanna know how a .30 caliber brush got driven into a ,22 caliber bore!

flipajig
June 18, 2013, 11:14 AM
NOT a good idea.

stavman11
June 18, 2013, 11:14 AM
I would like those with the knowledge of shooting blanks of whether this is feasible in terms of building pressure to dislodge a .30 cal boresnake brush which is confirmed to be halfway down the barrel of a .22 cal semi-auto.

I was thinking of starting with a primer and then gradually building up the grains, I want to know if pressure can be built to shoot it out?? :confused:
be sure and FILM it if ya Do....:uhoh:

we always need a WHAT NOT to Do Video to show peaple:what:

Seriously... NO dont do it... Take it to a Gunsmith to get it out... or try a wooden dowel slightly smaller than barrel size..

GrantA
June 18, 2013, 11:18 AM
I would swear the brass weight on the string of a 30 wouldn't fit down a 22, I'll have to compare the two now. Good luck but NO WAY I'd fire anything in it. I'm thinking cut the string and use a wooden dowel & hammer to beat it out the way it went in

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 11:18 AM
Not wood! Drive a wood dowel in there and it splits and wedges you might as well junk the barrel. You'd never get that mess out of a 22 barrel. :banghead:

mljdeckard
June 18, 2013, 12:12 PM
Opening the next season of Tosh.0.......

stavman11
June 18, 2013, 12:26 PM
Not wood! Drive a wood dowel in there and it splits and wedges you might as well junk the barrel. You'd never get that mess out of a 22 barrel. :banghead:
That could be true... that .30 brush is probobly Pretty wedged in there... Maybe a solid rod from Lowes or something... the cleaning rod will bend.. i know :-)


either way Good luck and FILM it please

HAHAHAHA

BunnMan
June 18, 2013, 12:37 PM
Seems to me the brass guide should have stopped it as well, and if it didn't I'd write the Boresnake folks and tell them they should have thought about that. I got a patch lodged in the barrel of my 17HMR a few years back. I do almost all my cleaning with an Otis kit and found that I'm asking for trouble trying to pinch the standard size patches small enough to pass through the 17 bore. The brass eye pulled through the patch and there I was. I did like John suggested and bought a 5/32" brass rod and tapped it out. I was damn nervous because that little rifle shot incredible groups. After the whole ordeal she's still cloverleafing 17's at 100yds if the wind aint blowing hard. if it's a prize .22 mark the rod at the end of the bore and tap light then gradually tap harder. When you find it starts to go a little, keep at it at that level of force until you work it free. It's going to take awhile, how it got halfway is beyond me...I've never seen a tapered bore on a 22 :)

-BunnMan

stavman11
June 18, 2013, 12:45 PM
i just looked

my 2 bore snakes.. .22/.223 and .38/.357/9mm have the same sized brass Guide

its obvious one snake is MUCH thicker... but could see how it COULD happen

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 12:57 PM
How it got there - stupidity.

I bought a 4mm brass sleeve and used the bottom straight section of a coathanger burnt bright red with a propane torch from the muzzle to identify where the brush was lodged. This burnt a 2mm hole all the way through to the bronze brush of the boresnake.

I can confirm it is almost halfway down the barrel.

I am afraid of bowing the brush it I attempt to use a steel rod...as an extreme example it bends into an L while attempting to hammer it out with a rod.

I should perhaps take a photo and show the current set-up. I put this in the reloading section as I read a thread elsewhere of a gentleman who started with a blank case/primer and worked his way up in grains to dislodge a boresnake. This being option number 3 once I have tried option 1 & 2.

GW Staar
June 18, 2013, 12:59 PM
I would try a solid brass rod and lots of gun oil:

Go to your favorite ACE Hardware Store and buy a solid brass rod just small enough to slide easily into the barrel. Squirt a good deal of gun oil in the barrel first, the insert rod and hammer it out so that it comes out the end of the barrel you were pulling the bore snake from.

Also if that isn't working so good help it by corking the end of the bore and pouring Sweet's 7.62 Bore Cleaning Solvent down it. Give it time to dissolve some of the brass.

mdi
June 18, 2013, 01:00 PM
C'mon lykoris, fess up. How did you get that brush in that bore?

all357mag
June 18, 2013, 01:07 PM
Really, shoot it out? Get a rod and push it out. It went in, it'll go out!

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 01:08 PM
To shoot it out clamp in a heavy duty vise.
Use about a 100 feet of strong string to pull the trigger.
Shelter behind at least a D8 sized dozer blade.
Clear the area.
Shout "fire in the hole" and give 3 blasts on an air horn.
After the dust settles, pick up what's left of your gun and go buy a new one.

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 01:08 PM
How it got there

Given you guys will obsess over this I will tell you so we can put it aside and focus on constructive ideas.

My brother came over from the London to shoot. I use boresnakes to clean the barrel of the gunex 2000 oil I leave in the barrel as it is fast. I always use rod and patches to clean. It saves me disassembling a semi-auto to remove the oil with a rod.

I did my sako to show how it worked and asked if he would follow up on the sig 550 as this is the rifle he wanted to shoot. I left to finish other packing (my wife and child were leaving on holidays and I had to pack the car, a lot of commotion) and when I came back the snake had snapped.

As I said, I was stupid and not thinking clearly. I should have prepped the rifle but as he had been over and done this before I though nothing of it. The fault is 100% mine for not handing him the right snake and not supervising him. It is what it is.

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 01:11 PM
Given it is a .308 boresnake in a .223 rifle I am concerned the rod will bow the snake brush....like an L, as an extreme example and create a larger obstruction.

X-Rap
June 18, 2013, 01:13 PM
I wonder if this is the basis to many of the stuck bore snake tales? I am careful to keep the ones that I have in their marked containers since there is no marking on them showing caliber.

788Ham
June 18, 2013, 01:18 PM
Where are you at rc? He'll be tickled to get in on this one again. :fire:

788Ham
June 18, 2013, 01:21 PM
I bought one to take to the range, give the bore a quick cleaning between strings.... didn't use it. Its lying under the reload bench, good place for it too !

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 01:21 PM
Boresnakes, the lazy mans handy tool for doing no end of damage to good bores and providing no end of employment for gun smiths.

GW Staar
June 18, 2013, 01:27 PM
"bow the snake brush" ? No way in hell. It's only .22" wide....the only direction its going to move is out. The center of the Snake is fabric and air....well no air in your case having been squeezed out. So fabric. Assuming the bore was started from the breech, the brass bristles are already pointed backward toward the breech if it's half-way already, so just push it from the breech.

Again assuming he started the snake from the chamber (breech), you will want to pour gun oil in from the muzzle. If you try Sweets you may have to pour it in from both ends, being that you probably have a pretty fair seal and it may not get clear through to soak all the bristles.

Obviously, if he pulled from the breech reverse the directions. Geeze, I hope you didn't try hammering it out against the bristles....that'll lock it up good.

I wonder if this is the basis to many of the stuck bore snake tales? I am careful to keep the ones that I have in their marked containers since there is no marking on them showing caliber.

They are all caliber marked on the brass end that you drop in the breech.

As for the lazyman's tool. That's a matter of opinion. I find them very useful at the range. The only damage they cause is if they are miss-used.

Jim Watson
June 18, 2013, 01:43 PM
Somebody here, I think Jim K., has experience in pyrotechnic removal of barrel obstructions.
Hatcher's writeup on it is not encouraging.

"Given it is a .308 boresnake in a .223 rifle I am concerned the rod will bow the snake brush....like an L, as an extreme example and create a larger obstruction."

You will need multiple pieces of rod. Don't run a two foot rod half way down a 24" barrel and start whacking on it where the exposed rod can vibrate and bend.
Put a 13 inch rod down to the obstruction and drive it flush with the end of the barrel. Repeat with a 14 inch. Maybe you will then be able to use one with two inches of protrusion as the snake gets moving.

hgte2001
June 18, 2013, 02:10 PM
bore obstruction: Wow.

drive it out with with brass rod from hardware store. Going out the way it went toward the breech will make it easier. Pour a good amount of of kroils or other oil on top of it and let it soak.

might try letting both ends soak first.

slowly tap it out!

Other than putting a mild acid in the barrel, strong enough to deteriorate/eat the cloth of the snake but not strong enough to damage the metal.

I think tapping and oil and more oil and tapping

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 02:21 PM
JohnM - if you have nothing constructive to say please refrain from posting. Thanks

This photo is the current set-up. The two pencil lines on the barrel (silver color) is exactly where the .30 brush is. Above the rifle is a never used .30 hoppes boresnake that I dissected to know exactly what it was comprised of, I originally thought it had a nylon core but it has a bronze brush with what appears to be a steel core...which is why I could not burn any further.

http://s8.postimg.org/sv9pujihx/20130618_184407.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


I have read in other threads the manufacturer states adding any solvents swells the material and aggravates the situation. I don't have access to MEK in any event which has appeared to work for others.

Gunsmiths in this country, Luxembourg are not reliable and on both occasions I have brought my firearms to have something fixed they never were which is why I would like to try resolve this on my own, if at all possible.

I cut the boresnake flush to the chamber to disassemble the rifle ( I had no real leverage from the ejection port), I have attached a plumberīs auger into the threaded section of the snake that resides within the chamber area. I have pulled like crazy but this had gone nowhere. This is option number one but I have no means to generate leverage once I have put the barrel in a vice.

Option 2 was to burn out the snake from the chamber all the way to the brush...and use a rod....my fear being the brush will bow/bend and not go straight out, this could create an even larger obstruction.

Option 3 was to use the 4 mm brass sleeve I originally used to protect the barrel while burning to attempt to collapse the bronze bristles, I do not believe this is feasible.

Option 4 ....what I originally asked and last on my list of preferences is to burn all the material out from the chamber to the brush and start with only a case and primer. I do not believe a primer alone would affect the barrel integrity but that the gases from a primer plus 1 grain of powder etc. would dislodge it.

I will take it to a gunsmith if nobody can suggest viable alternatives. I am not saying my options are worthwhile, just wanting a list of possibilities that leave as many options open as possible.

rondog
June 18, 2013, 02:21 PM
There's a lubricant called Tri-Flow that's the slickest, slipperiest stuff I've ever found. It's kinda hard to find (around my area anyway), but if you can get some I'd spray it down the barrel and soak that boresnake real good. It's kind of a liquid teflon, and slicker than snot. That might help to get it out.

I put some on some door hinges years ago, and they still get blown closed by even the slightest breeze! Our bedroom door has to be propped open because it'll swing shut on its own, that Tri-flow is like putting bearings on it.

rondog
June 18, 2013, 02:25 PM
Oh, I just read your post above.....I had no idea you're in Luxembourg! Tri-flow may not be available, but there's got to be some kind of super-slick oil around.

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 02:27 PM
JohnM - if you have nothing constructive to say please refrain from posting. Thanks

Yer welcome.
Get a brass rod that fits down the bore and drive the stupid thing out.

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 02:31 PM
A close up of the brush from the dissected 7,62mm hoppes snake, I put a slight kink in this thing just by testing it with my hands...which is why I fear using a rod will collapse it back on itself as the steel appears extremely malleable.

http://s16.postimg.org/ddm4fun4l/20130618_192638.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Certaindeaf
June 18, 2013, 02:37 PM
Maybe flush the solvents/past attempts with some good solvent like some acetone and then dump/work like five grains of fast burning pistol powder down in there and then light it somehow.. perhaps repeat a few times.
Yea, don't do that but tell us how it goes if you do.

col.lemat
June 18, 2013, 02:43 PM
Time to break out the hydraulic press

homatok
June 18, 2013, 02:58 PM
Try plugging the end(s) after you fill the brush end of the bore with a good copper solvent. Then stand the barrel up in a corner somewhere for a week or so. this should disolve some of the brissles, reducing the drag when you push/pound on a brass (or if you are brave a steel) rod. The advice NOT to use a wood rod is spot on!!!

homatok
June 18, 2013, 03:05 PM
Another thing you moght try is to fill the bore with oil, from the same end you started the snake from, insert a SHORT tight fitting wood dowel section, stand the barrel on end on a soft but firm surface and pound hard on the exposed end of the dowel. This should "hydrolic" the obstruction out.

inline4
June 18, 2013, 03:08 PM
i'm no gunsmith, so somebody please correct me if i'm a dumbass, but how about heating up the barrel a bit? barrels can get pretty hot just from shooting so i don't see how heating it up can hurt the barrel, it may just expand enough to loosen up the obstruction

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 03:12 PM
A week soaking in any OTC copper solvent is only going to take away a few mils off the brush bristles.
You're in Europe, go to a welding supply or industrial distributer and buy a length of 5mm brass or bronze brazing rod, 5.5mm would be better, but I doubt you'd find it.
That's all you need.
Just start driving the stuck brush in the direction it was traveling and the sucker will come out.

fguffey
June 18, 2013, 03:24 PM
Bore snake stuck, again, I make bore snakes, I could be doing something wrong, I find it impossible to stick one, I did see a demonstration, seems the demonstrator was having fun, but, not enough fun to convince me I needed one.

F. Guffey

Ian Sean
June 18, 2013, 04:19 PM
I got a busted .30 cal boresnake out of a barrel using a packing puller.

Everyone seems to want to beat it through. I would try to pull it, .22 is a bit small but not impossible to make up a jig with a LONG sub .22 cal screw on a rod and pull it out.

I was able to do the same roughly with a small packing puller tip (looks like a corkscrew) on a rod.

This was a friends rifle and he was in a panic...we got it out in short order.

I don't use boresnakes myself.

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 04:30 PM
I've got a drawer full of high quality packing pullers left over from my work years. Even one that will pass into a .22 barrel; problem would be attaching enough length to one to reach far enough, and in a .22 bore there ain't any room for tools.
Possible, but doubtful, when you get down to that small a bore, driving an obstruction out is the only option.

243winxb
June 18, 2013, 04:43 PM
If just the brush needs to be removed, try soaking a long time with a copper remover bore cleaner. Best cleaner test > http://www.laniganperformance.com/kg12testresults.html KG 12 Big Bore Remover. Long way to go to drive it out. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/FirearmsReloading102/BoreSnakeStuck.jpg

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 04:45 PM
Option 1
My first option is what I would like to do...use the plumber snake I have already cork screwed into the threads of the boresnake within the chamber area....my issue is leverage once I have fixed the barrel in a vice. I pulled on this like crazy to no avail.

This is the best option as I can always burn the snake and attempt to push out the brush if the above fails.

My question is would a gunsmith have a tool available to stretch the coiled plumber snake and pull the brush out the way it went in? I need some sort of rachet wheel that perhaps a gunsmith might have?

rcmodel
June 18, 2013, 04:53 PM
You are going to scratch the bore with a spring steel plumbers snake.

If you got all the sting out of the way?
Go buy some brass rod at a hardware store or welding shop and drive it on through and out the muzzle.

Do not try to drive it out back the way it went in, as the bristles are bent over the direction it was going when it broke.

Just keep going the direction it was going and it will come out.

Brass rod will not harm the bore.

rc

rogn
June 18, 2013, 05:38 PM
Im not entirely sure of your situation, but if the snake portion is still intact and is the leading end of the system. Then a Push -pull arrangement will be best. The brass rod will benefit if it is counterbored a small about(machine shop or creative drill press).This will keep the brush core centered and avoid cocking and kinking. Putting a few wraps of electrical tape at intervals on the rod, if noticeably smaller diameter than bore to keep it centered and avid rubbing the bore.
Just reviewed the posts. A good soaking with a copper solvent like Boretech Eliminator will reduce the bristles as suggested. The brush will almost then still have to pass in the same direction it was installed. Perhaps a packing screw from the muzzle and a carefully installed rod(caution due to the burn/melted hole in the snake). Then hopefully with some manual pushing and simultaneous pulling from the muzzle the issue can resolve.
Reducing the mass of the fabric may be done by hand driving a sharp bit , carefully with a guide such as a sub caliber metal tube. You dont have to remove all the farbic just reduce the volume enough to pass a drive rod easily without pressure or resistance
Note: they make muzzle end rod/bore guides which would be equally quick and less likely to produce such undesirable results.

Trent
June 18, 2013, 05:52 PM
20 ton hydraulic press and a steel rod?

It'll either come out, or it won't, and you'll buy a new barrel.

slidemuzik
June 18, 2013, 06:09 PM
Another thing you moght try is to fill the bore with oil, from the same end you started the snake from, insert a SHORT tight fitting wood dowel section, stand the barrel on end on a soft but firm surface and pound hard on the exposed end of the dowel. This should "hydrolic" the obstruction out.
I'm no engineer, but this method sounds brilliant with the least chance of damaging anything if it didn't work.

Makes perfect sense to dislodge it from the direction it was moving when it was stuck because of the bristles being bent away from the direction it was moving.

If you are having trouble getting leverage, try this... once the barrel is safely secured in the vice with the end of the barrel facing you in the direction that the obstruction will be moving. Take a long ( like 5-6 foot) steel pry bar. Anchor the end in the ground or floor. If indoor put a wooden crate on the floor large enough to stand on. Use the crate and your weight on it to anchor the pry bar. Attach whatever you are using to pull it out; to the bar slightly higher than the barrel. The distance between the opening of the barrel and the bar should be as short as possible when pulling to reduce stretch and keep the angle of the pull straight.

Word of caution... DO NOT pull the bar towards you without controlling the force. Yanking with reckless abandon you are likely to split your head open with the bar if the object suddenly lets go. Push the bar away from you, or TAP with a sufficient sized hammer.

I would ask a friend to help and drive from one end with the hydraulic technique described above in combination with pulling from the other end.

Does this make sense? Good Luck.

ArchAngelCD
June 18, 2013, 06:32 PM
Option 1
My first option is what I would like to do...use the plumber snake I have already cork screwed into the threads of the boresnake within the chamber area....my issue is leverage once I have fixed the barrel in a vice. I pulled on this like crazy to no avail.
Pulling a 22 brush backwards would be hard enough and rarely done but trying to reverse a 308 brush in a 22 barrel will only jam the brush even more. I would think it's impossible to reverse that setup.

You must push the brush in the same direction it was inserted if you want to remove it. Stop talking and start working and you will be done sooner than you think. Like said above, there isn't enough room in the barrel for the brush to fold over, just push it out!

Fire_Moose
June 18, 2013, 06:44 PM
For the oil/hydraulic method, wouldn't you need the opposite end of the bore to be open?

Sent from my CZ85 Combat

lykoris
June 18, 2013, 07:06 PM
The overwhelming majority suggest driving it out with a brass rod.

I believe burning away as much of the snake as possible would be important as....to take an extreme example, 3m of tightly packed rope in a barrel will never be driven out the other end as it will only compact upon itself. So I think the snake would have to be burnt out as much as possible prior to attempting to drive it out with a rod/brute force.

I will have to go to the hardware store after work tomorrow and get the necessary supplies. In the mean time I will soak it in Ballistol.

My gut tells me this brush will fold in on itself once I start to try beat it out given as 243winxb's photo illustrates there is a long way to go.....I get the feeling I will soon end up with a large paper weight.

slidemuzik
June 18, 2013, 07:28 PM
Be positive. You can do this, if not at least it will be a really cool paperweight.

GW Staar
June 18, 2013, 07:38 PM
The overwhelming majority suggest driving it out with a brass rod.

I believe burning away as much of the snake as possible would be important as....to take an extreme example, 3m of tightly packed rope in a barrel will never be driven out the other end as it will only compact upon itself. So I think the snake would have to be burnt out as much as possible prior to attempting to drive it out with a rod/brute force.

I will have to go to the hardware store after work tomorrow and get the necessary supplies. In the mean time I will soak it in Ballistol.

My gut tells me this brush will fold in on itself once I start to try beat it out given as 243winxb's photo illustrates there is a long way to go.....I get the feeling I will soon end up with a large paper weight.

I can see I was wrong about the brass brush's center, (never cut one apart) but having a twisted wire in the middle, like a regular brass bristle brush, is even better, to prevent the material from compacting upon itself. The diameter of the twisted wire center can't be that much smaller than the bore....therefore how in heaven is it going to fold anywhere....it may move from side to side a couple of mm's but so what.(and I even doubt that...you got bristles interwoven in nylon all around it.)

In my opinion, burning is not going to do much unless it is hot enough to melt the brass. I'm betting that it's the brass bristles that's holding the thing in there, not 3m of rope....but you could maybe hook the rope with a #22-#24 fish hook and alternately push and pull to keep it from bunching up any more.

Best of luck to you. BTW, if all else fails a gunsmith could run a .17 caliber bore drill through it.....paper weight....never.

JohnM
June 18, 2013, 07:54 PM
It ain't like the OP is the first person to ever stick a brush or something else in a tight bore before.
There's several of us here who have had to remove such stuff before, it's no big deal.

higgite
June 18, 2013, 09:34 PM
The overwhelming majority suggest driving it out with a brass rod.....

I get the feeling I will soon end up with a large paper weight.
It's already a large paperweight as is. Get the brass rod as suggested and turn it back into a rifle. ;)

Robert101
June 18, 2013, 09:40 PM
"It's already a large paperweight as is. Get the brass rod as suggested and turn it back into a rifle."
Best statement I've heard today. Oh the genius of what he said.

Jim K
June 18, 2013, 11:30 PM
Would it surprise anyone to know I have shot out several obstructions like that and still have all my bits and pieces and no damage to the rifles or handguns?

Use a standard factory round, pull the bullet, dump out about half the powder and stick a fluff of cotton in the case to keep the powder from spilling out. DO NOT PUT THE BULLET BACK IN! Fire the cartridge. (With .22 LR, you can use the full powder charge, instead of half.)

That's it, folks, no bulged barrel, no explosion, no scratches in the barrel that weren't there before, no pieces of rifle scattered over four counties. Just a sort of "poof."

Now what not to do. DON'T try it with a bullet in the case; you WILL bulge or burst the barrel. DON'T use a factory blank cartridge; the powder burns too fast. With a revolver with the bullet stuck in the forcing cone, you will have drive the bullet back into the cylinder so the cylinder can be opened, and the bullet will either come out with the case or just fall out.

Jim

Lost Sheep
June 19, 2013, 10:15 PM
Do NOT use a wooden dowel. If the end splits, the splinters are very likely to wedge between the bore and the original obstruction and make matters worse.

Lost Sheep

Sun Tzu warrior
June 19, 2013, 10:55 PM
Are boresnakes made of cotton?
Seems to me, in my younger years, I rotted a lot of holes in my trousers, carrying car batteries. Maybe some battery acid (sulfuric acid)
will dissolve the cloth material portion, Perhaps a call to Hoppes would be in order, surely they have encountered this problen before, if not they could at least tell you the material from which they are made.

Trent
June 19, 2013, 11:50 PM
Sulfuric acid will corrode stainless steel.

JohnM
June 20, 2013, 08:33 AM
Are boresnakes made of cotton?
Seems to me, in my younger years, I rotted a lot of holes in my trousers, carrying car batteries. Maybe some battery acid (sulfuric acid)
will dissolve the cloth material portion, Perhaps a call to Hoppes would be in order, surely they have encountered this problen before, if not they could at least tell you the material from which they are made.

Oh puleeze! Pour sulfuric acid, even at battery strength, into a gun barrel!?! :rolleyes:
Why not tell the guy to take it to a welding shop and have them cut out the plugged section and weld it back together? :cuss:

lykoris
June 20, 2013, 07:54 PM
I am having a nightmare of a time trying to burn out the boresnake from the chamber area, whatever a hoppes boresnake is made of they are extremely resilient against a red hot closehanger from a propane torch.

I don't see any point in hammering a brass rod through the chamber area until I have cleared as much of a path as possible to the brush. I don't see how that would work anyway as the force of the strike would dissipate long before it reached the brush.

I will put up some photos tomorrow and they will still be crappy cell photos as the camera took my wife on holidays :p

JimK it was no doubt your thread I came across, I think a .22lr rifle is one thing, as is a handgun with a significantly shorter barrel....althought I am still contemplating it as an option.

I am also thinking I might just call up Swiss Arms and see if they could resolve it and get the gunsmith/distributor here to just ship it back to them.

I will never again use a boresnake, ironically I had read threads here a month ago and thought....yeah, never going to happen to me but as a precaution bought a bunch of new ones which I will now be shooting the crap out of down range.

my poor sig 550....there is never a crying smiley when you need one:p

Lucifer_Sam
June 20, 2013, 08:45 PM
The only successful bore snake removals I've read about have been by backing it out with alot of force, or putting a screw on a rod, screwing that into the snake, then pulling it out. I think the running a wire through the snake suggestions in this thread might work, too.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=705806

He actually got his out by pulling it out backwards. But that wrong caliber thing might mean you're in a world of pain.

And definitely don't use wooden dowels. Once one of those split in the barrel you're off to the gunsmith for sure.

Sun Tzu warrior
June 20, 2013, 09:22 PM
Yeah, I guess you guys are right, battery acid will surely rot steel quicker than cotton!
Be that as it may, a call to Hoppes may still provide a solution.
Anyway good luck Lykoris, hope it all ends well for you!

45_auto
June 20, 2013, 09:55 PM
Do you know anyone with access to liquid nitrogen?

Freeze the thing piece by piece and work your way up the barrel chipping it out as you freeze it.

As a side benefit, you'll be cryo-treating your barrel which people would charge you big bucks for anyway!

Dave Bulla
June 20, 2013, 10:53 PM
Seems to me the main issue is that the bore between the brush and the chamber is packed full of synthetic rope and that's the end he'd need to use the brass rod from to pound it out.

The idea of burning it out seems poor too as all it would do would be to melt into plastic and then set up like hot glue on steroids.

Honestly, I'm a bit stumped. Have you verified that it was in fact the 30 cal brush? I bought a 22 boresnake and did ONE pass down the barrel of a Marlin 39A and it was literally ALL I could do to pull the danged thing through the barrel. It was so tight that the steel core in the brush broke while I was pulling. Just saying, it wouldn't surprise me any if it was actually the 22 bore snake that got stuck.

If it is the 30 caliber one, I think you might be in a real bad fix.

I kinda like the idea of the copper solvent but the only problem is most of those solvents caution against leaving it in the bore longer than about 15 minutes. If you put it in and it doesn't do the job it will still soak way down into the bore snake fibers and will likely cause damage anyway.

As insane as it sounds after a lifetime of being preached to about barrel obstructions and how dangerous they are, I keep coming back to the shoot it out method of Jim K as possibly the least harmful way to get it out. As he said, with no projectile, there "should" be less danger. I'd probably dump ALL of the powder and add back 3 to 5 grains of Unique powder since it's been proven a fabulous (and safe) reduced load powder. Problem is you may not have access to it there. When it goes off, it's almost sure to push the obstruction out. I just can't safely recommend it to you because there is no guarantee.

If it was my rifle though, at this point I'd probably give it a try and hope for the best.

X-Rap
June 20, 2013, 11:25 PM
Did the rope break at the muzzle? Can you find a rod (brass) that just clears the lands?
Have you tried some sort of brass hooks on a rod chucked in a drill and tried forward/reverse to shread the rope?
If the rod is just small enough to fit in the bore you should be able to compress every thing and drive the brush out, rope and all. You may need to have a short piece 4-6 inches turned to fit exactly and then a smaller diameter rod or rods to finish driving it through. Multiple driving rods may need to be used so you minimize the chance to bow the portion of the rod outside the bore.

JohnM
June 20, 2013, 11:31 PM
I am having a nightmare of a time trying to burn out the boresnake from the chamber area, whatever a hoppes boresnake is made of they are extremely resilient against a red hot closehanger from a propane torch.


:eek: Unbelievable

lykoris
June 21, 2013, 03:12 AM
Unbelievable indeed, I meant to say clothes hanger :eek:

the bore between the brush and the chamber is packed full of synthetic rope and that's the end he'd need to use the brass rod from to pound it out

Exactly the current state of affairs. Will post some photos after work.

frankenstein406
June 21, 2013, 03:22 AM
Can you thread the end of a rod and try to pull the rope part out while pounding from the other end?

JohnM
June 21, 2013, 08:31 AM
If you had driven a brass rod through as many of us have told you, you'd be done now and have your rifle back together and shooting.
Since you've insisted on poking a STEEL coat hanger, heated glowing red?, in and out of your bore for days now, I wonder if you'll even have a barrel left worth saving.

backbencher
June 21, 2013, 12:18 PM
Since you've insisted on poking a STEEL coat hanger, heated glowing red?, in and out of your bore for days now, I wonder if you'll even have a barrel left worth saving.
How is a soft steel coat hanger, not any hotter than burning powder, going to do damage to a hardened steel barrel?

JohnM
June 21, 2013, 12:40 PM
Take a piece of an old coat hanger and ram it in and out of a (preferably junked) barrel for a while, then go in with a bore scope and tell me you see no damage caused to the bore.

lykoris
June 21, 2013, 03:16 PM
it has always been encased in a brass sleeve which is visible from the photo I originally posted....the idea was originally from a guy that successfully removed a stuck boresnake doing this then tapping it out.

Any blow currently will be dissipated by all the material at the throat of the barrel all the way up - I could pound until eternity and it will not move the brush.

JohnM
June 21, 2013, 03:34 PM
Any blow currently will be dissipated by all the material at the throat of the barrel all the way up -

No it won't. A 3/16-5mm brass rod can't get past the steel wire core of the brush, once whatever the end of the rod picks up on it's way to the brush will get compacted by the blows of a hammer on the rod till it can't get compressed any more and the jammed brush will start to move.
Once it starts moving it'll drag whatever else is in there along with it till the whole mess comes out the muzzle!

X-Rap
June 21, 2013, 03:47 PM
Don't try to cut and use one piece of rod to do the whole job, use pieces that will allow the maximum of 4" to be exposed outside the bore. You might have to cut the peened end off before it enters the muzzle but you can use much harder strikes on a shorter rod.

JohnM
June 21, 2013, 03:57 PM
+ As above

Beentown
June 21, 2013, 04:04 PM
+ As above

+39

rondog
June 21, 2013, 05:06 PM
I think the only thing we can all agree on is that we all want to hear how this saga ends! And I'm sure we all hope for it to end well....I know I do.

lykoris
June 21, 2013, 05:09 PM
There is nowhere for me to go without bowing a brass rod from the chamber end.....the receiver needs to be removed and a hydraulic press used.

http://s14.postimg.org/eob9vq3vl/20130621_215551.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s12.postimg.org/4bzq9jfct/20130621_215622.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


The only way I can follow your advice (i.e. maximum 4 inches exposed) is to hammer the rod from the muzzle...hoping the rod does not bow in the flashhider which is 6cm.

JohnM
June 21, 2013, 05:34 PM
Just let the rod extend a few inches past the back end of the receiver, not ideal, but it'll do.
A lot easier than trying to go from the muzzle end.
If it was a stuck 22 brush, I'd say go for it, but a 30 caliber brush jammed in there?, it might be done, but it would require some serious hammering to bend all those bristles back on the brush.

smoakingun
June 21, 2013, 05:42 PM
to clarify...you pulled a bore snake from the breech toward the muzzle. The string pulled off from the muzzle end. Removing the barrel from the receiver is an expensive but necessary option if you wish to drive the obstruction out from the breech. You have a means of continuing the pull from the muzzle end but lack sufficient leverage? Have you given thought to a slide hammer? Not having yet gone through this myself, it would seem that the results would be the same as pushing from the rear

X-Rap
June 22, 2013, 12:09 AM
Use a piece of tubing at the juncture of your rods.
If the rope broke off pretty close to the brush I would go from the muzzle, those bristles will bend back around and you will have an easier time hammering.

col.lemat
June 22, 2013, 12:53 AM
Hydraulic ? seems I herd that before someplace

Trent
June 22, 2013, 01:04 AM
Hydraulic ? seems I herd that before someplace

Post #45. :)

col.lemat
June 22, 2013, 01:12 AM
Beat you to it at #33

FROGO207
June 22, 2013, 07:44 AM
Go back and read what Jim K said in post 55 again and try shooting it out. I have done this exact thing before myself. Did not work for me in a revolver for obvious reasons though.;) At this point you have nothing to loose as the lower charge and no projectile will not bulge the barrel. Then if it doesn't work go on to more aggressive means (you'll not have to though:)).

Ever ask how to stop hiccups? How many different home remedies do you want to hear that SHOULD work.:D

lykoris
June 23, 2013, 06:07 AM
SUCCESS!!! :D

http://s8.postimg.org/bjzytkcqt/20130623_105312.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

6 hours with a 800 gram hammer and repeatedly striking an insane amount of 4mm brass rods - (could not find 5mm anywhere) it all came out.

the aftermath

http://s18.postimg.org/heecvte09/20130623_105606.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


My advice for those that find this with a google search is only brass rods and a hammer are necessary.

Thanks to all for the support/advice :)

beatledog7
June 23, 2013, 07:37 AM
Congrats on your success!

Dave P
June 23, 2013, 08:27 AM
"only brass rods and a hammer are necessary."

Who wooda thunk ... :banghead:

PWGUNNY
June 23, 2013, 08:40 AM
Congrats. A round of applause. That's a lot of brass rods.

JohnM
June 23, 2013, 08:48 AM
Only some brass rod and a hammer.
Who could ever have imagined that.

OilyPablo
June 23, 2013, 09:40 AM
I am a bore snake hater by trade. Hard to blame the snake for once.

But without the Bore Snake we would not have this near epic thread. Good on all.

backbencher
June 23, 2013, 11:36 AM
What kind of dinner is your brother buying you?

col.lemat
June 23, 2013, 01:08 PM
The thing is did any body learn anything here?

Scooter22
June 23, 2013, 02:37 PM
The thing is did any body learn anything here?
Yup. If your going to use a .30 cal brush on a .22 use a rod and have a hammer handy.

JohnM
June 23, 2013, 02:44 PM
Yup. If your going to use a .30 cal brush on a .22 use a rod and have a hammer handy.

:evil: No, stay away from those miserable funky bore snakes.
People snap them off in a bore all the time, then have no clue how to go at getting it out.
Tough to get at the bore from the breech end?, get a proper muzzle guard to protect your crown and use it.

308win
June 23, 2013, 04:05 PM
You can get Hoppes Boresnakes on Amazon for less than $7 depending on the caliber with free shipping.:D

rondog
June 23, 2013, 04:41 PM
Glad to hear you succeeded! No bore damage, I hope.

dmazur
June 23, 2013, 04:48 PM
They are also available from Dillon.

And, the ad copy includes "...this product is popular with gunsmiths, ..."

Truth in advertising is rare. :)

Trent
June 23, 2013, 08:29 PM
Congrats!

Dave Bulla
June 24, 2013, 12:24 AM
Just curious, what end did you pound it out from?

JohnM
June 24, 2013, 08:44 AM
He went from the breech, the direction the over sized snake was pulled till it jammed.
That receiver being attached to the barrel gave him a major disadvantage allowing flexure in the driving rod, plus he ended up having to use rod just barely big enough to do the job.
With what he had to work with I doubt he could ever have reversed the brush and driven it out from the muzzle.

lykoris
June 24, 2013, 02:47 PM
I hammered from the muzzle, there was no way in hell given how much it bowed if more than 2 cm was exposed beyond the flashhider (6cm to crown)...there was 30cm on the receiver side.

Thing is, burning a 2mm hole to the centre of the stainless steel core of the brush enabled me to get the brass rod onto it very quickly....even then the first hour of having the brass on steel contact it seemed like I was getting nowhere (10-12 rods that were within 5mm difference in terms of length) and what I showed was a fraction of the rods that bent.

on a barrel without a flash hider it would have been a much easier process.

I also filled the barrel from the muzzle end every night with ballistol which no doubt helped also.

I will have to take it to the range this weekend and see how it shoots.

Fingers crossed and will report back ;)

JohnM
June 24, 2013, 02:54 PM
You did go in from the muzzle?
I would have thought you'd never get that brush turned with those small rods and the flex the flash hider allowed.
You still gonna use bore snakes? :evil:

backbencher
June 24, 2013, 03:05 PM
Soldiers blow up M4s regularly by shooting cleaning rods out of 'em. Still gonna use cleaning rods?

Bovice
June 24, 2013, 03:29 PM
A correctly sized boresnake will NOT be stuck in the bore if the string breaks. If it's appropriately sized for the bore and becomes stuck, it can be pushed out with a cleaning rod. The issue here is not the concept of a boresnake itself, it's oversized brushes in barrels.

X-Rap
June 24, 2013, 03:35 PM
I always wondered about the broken rope stories, seems that there is always one end sticking out of the muzzle or breach.
If the wrong size is used I can believe both ends might break. I made a comment earlier in the thread about markings for size and I did look, it took magnification but they are indeed marked though poorly IMO. Just wonder if this is part of the stuck snake problem?

JohnM
June 24, 2013, 03:46 PM
Probably 99% operator error, never the less people seem to break those things off in a bore pretty often.
I'll use my rods. Besides, I don't think much of the idea of dragging a pull line or string through a bore over and over. They've got to get coated with crud.
I run a patch through one pass only, brushes get washed in solvent, and rods kept wiped down.

Sun Tzu warrior
June 24, 2013, 10:56 PM
Easy to see why Dillon says bore snakes are very popular with gunsmiths.
I too have to wonder how many of these "Stuck bore snake" threads are due to the operator using the wrong size.
Anyway, Congrats, glad everything came out alright! ( pun intended)

Scooter22
June 24, 2013, 11:30 PM
JMHO but if your bore is dirty/fouled enough to use a brush, get a rod and learn to use it. Otherwise get or make a pull through that just uses a patch. Trying to do both with a nylon string you get what you bought. Just a bunch of lazy shooters.:p

788Ham
June 25, 2013, 12:59 AM
You gonna throw away that good bore snake section? Man, whatta waste. :evil:

backbencher
June 25, 2013, 10:13 AM
JMHO but if your bore is dirty/fouled enough to use a brush, get a rod and learn to use it. Otherwise get or make a pull through that just uses a patch. Trying to do both with a nylon string you get what you bought. Just a bunch of lazy shooters.:p
Scooter, indeed, we should do everything to keep lazy shooters off the HIGH Road, and never entertain any method of improvement in cleaning firearms. Semi-automatics are probably also a dangerous innovation, and what's with these stocks that are not solid walnut?

dmazur
June 27, 2013, 02:03 AM
Of course there is nothing wrong with improvement.

However, if someone asks about a Jennings semi-auto, there will probably be some (honest) opinions about the safety and reliability of such a gun.

I believe the negative comments about boresnakes are in the same line.

Boresnakes offer convenience in a small package and clean a bore to some extent, but "full disclosure" should include the things which can go wrong, including how difficult they are to correct.

Then, hopefully, the informed user will do the right thing...

Kynoch
September 21, 2014, 05:03 AM
Would it surprise anyone to know I have shot out several obstructions like that and still have all my bits and pieces and no damage to the rifles or handguns?

Use a standard factory round, pull the bullet, dump out about half the powder and stick a fluff of cotton in the case to keep the powder from spilling out. DO NOT PUT THE BULLET BACK IN! Fire the cartridge. (With .22 LR, you can use the full powder charge, instead of half.)

That's it, folks, no bulged barrel, no explosion, no scratches in the barrel that weren't there before, no pieces of rifle scattered over four counties. Just a sort of "poof."

Now what not to do. DON'T try it with a bullet in the case; you WILL bulge or burst the barrel. DON'T use a factory blank cartridge; the powder burns too fast. With a revolver with the bullet stuck in the forcing cone, you will have drive the bullet back into the cylinder so the cylinder can be opened, and the bullet will either come out with the case or just fall out.

Jim

Sorta sounds like a mini pipe bomb... :eek:

fguffey
September 21, 2014, 12:29 PM
I make a form of bore snake that is not like the bore snake, it is impossible to stick, jam or hang up, but, if it did by design it has a unjam, unstick and unhang-up feature.

F. Guffey

Jim K
September 25, 2014, 09:21 PM
"Sorta sounds like a mini pipe bomb... "

Nope, no pipe bomb, just a clear and undamaged barrel.

But I like the method of burning the obstruction out by heating the barrel red hot with an acetylene torch. Now that is a great way to keep from harming the barrel!

Jim

45_auto
September 26, 2014, 11:29 PM
it is impossible to stick, jam or hang up, but, if it did by design it has a unjam, unstick and unhang-up feature.

If it's impossible to stick, jam or hang up (you obviously haven't loaned it to a few people that I know for testing!), why does it need an unjam feature?

rcmodel
September 26, 2014, 11:37 PM
+1

Give it to four GI's with nothing better to do for 15 minutes.

And you will soon find in less then 15 minutes, 4 of your 3 features are not at all foolproof, or even true!

rc

lemaymiami
September 27, 2014, 11:45 AM
As a former GI (all those years ago...) I resemble that remark...

Seriously, I'd like to hear whether that barrel performed properly after all the work required to clear it. Here's hoping the owner found it worked like it did before the problem.

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