Theory - .308 into .30-06


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shadow9
June 19, 2013, 11:28 PM
So, had a theory - I was looking at reloading manuals, and realized that in the common loadings (150, 165/168, and 180gr), .308 and .30-06 share powders. However, the minimum listed in Hodgdon's information for .30-06 is the midrange for a .308, and .308 min. is lower than a .30-06 by avg of 1-4grs.

Could one use a .308 min charge under a round in a .30-06 case and not induce pressure problems from too much space (i.e. 2400 and .45-70 gallery loads)? I figure the medium and "hot" charges for 308 would be right into "medium" range for .30-06, generally.

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Livnoutdoorsxd9
June 19, 2013, 11:35 PM
Why not just follow the load data for each specific caliber. Seems like a solution looking for a problem...

06
June 20, 2013, 12:06 AM
Do you not have manual-S??? If not then that is the very first thing you should rush out and buy. Have been loading a very long time but still use 2-3 manuals plus check the note book for data. Making mistakes that close to your nose is very foolish.

KansasSasquatch
June 20, 2013, 12:28 AM
It would in theory be safe if you used a suitable powder that is recommended, by the powder manufacturer, for reduced loads. H4895 is one such powder. I believe Hodgdon says it can be reduced to 60% of MAX. Example: Hodgdon lists a 150gr Nosler BT over 51.0gr MAX charge of H4895 in .30-06. So according to their data you could reduce that charge to about 31gr safely. If you are going to attempt something like that you should definitely go to their website and follow any precautions they may state.

But in general, you shouldn't attempt it with any random powder. Some loads are listed as minimums because that's just what the people doing the testing started with. Other loads are the minimum because any less could be dangerous.

788Ham
June 20, 2013, 12:50 AM
Just in theory? When reading the reload book, just read the black print and forget the white on the pages ! I've reloaded since 1970, I've always gone by what the printed figures have to say, still have all 10 fingers and both my fading eyes. Might behoove you to follow suit.

KansasSasquatch
June 20, 2013, 01:38 AM
I think it's a perfectly valid question. Maybe the OP is trying to introduce a newer shooter into the world of high powered rifles and is trying to slowly work them up to full powered loads. My wife would like to get into deer hunting this year and I can either hand her a lightweight Savage .30-06 or a Mosin unless I can somehow afford to buy a new rifle between now and then. She's a pretty good shot but she can't practice with full power loads and gallery loads won't cut it for that kind of practice. So the original question can be perfectly valid. No it shouldn't be attempted with any random powder, but there are at least a few safe options.

kelbro
June 20, 2013, 09:13 AM
Google 'managed recoil loads' and check out the write-up on the Hodgdon site for reducing H4895 loads.

shadow9
June 20, 2013, 10:29 AM
No it shouldn't be attempted with any random powder, but there are at least a few safe options.
&
Some loads are listed as minimums because that's just what the people doing the testing started with. Other loads are the minimum because any less could be dangerous.

These answered it, confirmed my suspicions as well. I'm at that confident and curious point, so I'd rather seek out the "Wisdom of Experience" rather than the "Wounds of Experimenting".

RE: Reloading/Safety - I appreciate the concern, though I am actually well-read on reloading. I have read ABC's, Speer, Hornady, even P. Sharpe's 1937 edition (which is QUITE the read, btw.), as well as reading the actual SAAMI Pressure and cartridge diagrams for my caliber(s) of choice (detailing chamber specs AND cartridge specs), AND the the Documentation on how SAAMI gauges the pressures and establishes cartridge pressure limits.

However, there are questions that rise that only EXPERIENCE can answer. My question, for instance, is viable - given consistent burning powders that have a consistent pressure wave, and thus predictable behaviors at lower charge amounts. However, since I do NOT know the behaviors of all powders, nor do I want to "experiment" to find out, I seek some advice of more experienced reloaders.


Where my question originated was with a discussion on cartridge versatility with a friend - and the short story is using a .308 cartridge components in a .30-06 case. In the strange and random event that you cannot find .30-06 in stock, but .308 is available, you may need to "salvage" a few rounds. I know this would seem far fetched - but the recent ammo shortage is teaching us all a few things...or, alternately if you're at a remote location that just ran out of .30-06 but had .308, this could be an idea.

Given that the .30-06 has more room to work with in the case, you could THEORETICALLY break down a .308 case, throw that charge into a .30-06 (given similar charge amounts using shared powders in the manuals), and it should line up to a "safe mid-range" for a .30-06, provided you use ONLY that bullet you pulled from the .308 in the .30-06. Of course, this assumes that you travel with an inertial bullet-puller and a Lee-Loader.

My concern came with the idea that the .308 you are pulling from has either a smaller charge than usual (Federal ammo occasinally runs "cool"), or you have a "reduced recoil" round. ALSO - factory ammo CAN use Proprietary powder - which is tuned to THAT cartridge specifically, and MAY do odd things if given more "running room". However, if both .30-06 and .308 are using the same powders in reloading manuals, chances are that their Factory powders are also close enough in behavior to not pose a large problem - though this is pure speculation. ALSO - I'd ONLY consider this with THESE TWO cartridges specifically.

USSR
June 20, 2013, 10:57 AM
Some loads are listed as minimums because that's just what the people doing the testing started with.

+1. I will also add, some load data's "Max" loads are simply where the people doing the testing decided to stop. I know this is the case with Sierra, as I called them about a questionable "Max" load, and that is what they told me. Not saying you should use less than a Minimum listed load or more than a Maximum listed load, just saying that in many cases there is no science behind it and it is not etched in stone.

Don

medalguy
June 20, 2013, 01:05 PM
One problem with starting with too low a load in any caliber is the opportunity to stick a bullet in a barrel. I bet that would ruin a good day of shooting, particularly if you didn't notice the stuck bullet. :eek:

kelbro
June 20, 2013, 02:55 PM
If you observe closely, several reloading manuals have a published max and the 'starting load' is exactly 10% less. They didn't just pick a value and the max was magically 10% over that. They determined a max and then made a commonsense recommendation. It does not mean that going below the start load will result in a Secondary Explosion. They do have specific warning on powders like H110/W296 to NOT reduce below their minimum.

Some manuals publish a max and state, reduce 10% and work up.

243winxb
June 20, 2013, 03:32 PM
Below listed starting charges of slow burning powder may do strange things. Smokeless powders need pressure to burn correctly. 4895 is a powder that may be loaded below starting charge weights, as already said. Here is an example, when components are not suited to the cartridge. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4928827#post4928827 http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/257Weatherby.jpg IMR powders were listed by Dupont in many calibers that did not work well with the cartridge. Steves pages lists many of them. Example IMR 4831 in the 30-30 Win. http://www.stevespages.com/page8a.htm Are the loading dangerous? I dont know. :uhoh:

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