3006 or 7mm


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appalachian hunter
June 20, 2013, 08:37 AM
hi fellas, i'm asking what is you guy's opinion on 3006 vs 7mm
wanna buy a new rifle and cant decide
knock down power,range,availlable ammo,etc
i'll be hunting moose deer and bears with it
pump-semi-bolt lever.....
what you guys prefer and for what reason
thnks in advance

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Sam1911
June 20, 2013, 09:03 AM
Knock-down power is a bit of a myth. Really is no such thing.

7mm? Meaning 7mm Mauser (7x57)? 7mm-'08? 7mm WSM? 7mm Rem Ultra? 7mm Weatherby? 7mm Remington Mag? 7mm STW?

Assuming you mean 7x57 vs the '06, both of those cartridges have taken all of those game animals cleanly.

.30-'06 is likely to be easier to find than any of the 7mm cartridges if you're buying off-the-shelf ammo.

Range is likely irrelevant as hunting shots are all going to be within 300 yds for 95% of hunters in 95% of situations.

If you want a variety of action choices, .30-'06 is probably your only common choice. Pump, semi-, and lever actions can be had in '06 commonly. Not in any of the 7mm cartridges, though.

Art Eatman
June 20, 2013, 10:01 AM
The old '06 is as close to being a do-all cartridge as there is. 110-grain bullets for coyotes, 150s for deer and 180s for elk and moose most generally work just fine. To 300 yards, for all practical hunting, the trajectory is as flat as anything else.

My personal preference for a hunting rifle is the bolt action. My own hunting has never needed more than a 3x9x40 scope. For Sam's 95% rule, a Weaver K4 would work as well as anything.

Robert
June 20, 2013, 10:15 AM
Winchester M70 in 30-06.

flipajig
June 20, 2013, 10:26 AM
If you reload my choice would be a 280 or a 280 AI if not a 06.
I Preferr a singl shot just my choice you only need one.
Flip

Grumulkin
June 20, 2013, 10:51 AM
hi fellas, i'm asking what is you guy's opinion on 3006 vs 7mm
wanna buy a new rifle and cant decide
knock down power,range,availlable ammo,etc
i'll be hunting moose deer and bears with it
pump-semi-bolt lever.....
what you guys prefer and for what reason
thnks in advance

By "7mm" I presume you mean the 7mm Remington Magnum. I actually have both but if I were to pick one for hunting it would be a 30/06. The range is plenty, the power is plenty and it's doubtful that any ammo for other cartridges would be more available. For most hunters, I would say go with a bolt action rifle though the 30/06 I've used the most for hunting is a single shot (T/C Encore).

Kachok
June 20, 2013, 11:03 AM
Winchester M70 in 30-06.
+1
There are three calibers that I am in love with the 6.5mm, 7mm, and 30 caliber. The 6.5 is the perfect whitetail caliber, the 7mm is fantastic for larger deer species like the large mulies I hunted out west, but if you throw moose and bear into the mix I would opt for the 30 caliber.
I handload the 30-06 and it really is that versatile you can effectively load it from 110gr to 250gr for everything in north America. I personally load from 125gr Ballistic Tips to 200gr Hot Cores. The only complainant I have with the 30-06 is it is a bit excessive on deer and tends to blow up too much meat at full power forcing me to reduce load it witch sucks because mine shoots it's best at max load in 150 and 165gr.
The new FN Winchester Model 70 is a SUPERB rifle, I have the featherweight in 308 and it is fantastic, shoots just under 1" with factory core-lokts and half that with my handloads the heavier barreled sporter model is supposedly even more accurate. The Mauser style action is fantastic, the trigger is good, the fit and finish are top notch, and the ergonomics are the best in the business. I highly recommend them, it is my second favorite rifle of all time, and I have owned alot.

jmr40
June 20, 2013, 11:06 AM
Bolt rifle, 30-06 would be my choice. The 7 mags are a very good choice as well. Recoil is virtually the same with a slight increase in the magnum. The 7 mag will outperform the 06 by a slight margin at long range, but not enough for me to take advantge of.

Ammo is everywhere for the 30-06. Rifles tend to be lighter and more compact. Hard to go wrong with a 30-06.

LNK
June 20, 2013, 11:14 AM
I have neither, but it seems during the ammo crunch of 2013 I could always find 30-06 ammo on the shelves. Although 7mm rem mag was a close second, followed by 270 win. Everything else was gone. That being said, next crunch might be different as I am sure people noticed what was there this time, and purchased to take advantage the next time. So I guess I am no help.

Good luck with your purchase...

LNK

hoghunting
June 20, 2013, 02:52 PM
I'd also recommend the .30-06, you won't notice much difference between the '06 and the 7mm Rem mag when used for taking large game. And '06 ammo is very easy to find.

X-Rap
June 20, 2013, 03:07 PM
There are two popular 7mm that would be my choice over the 06, the 280 and 7mm Win mag. All three are good calibers and I have at least one of each.
I just feel the 7mm's flatens trajectory and while they give some bullet weight up to the 30 as long as you stay above 150 gr and place your shot well it is worth the sacrifice.

DM~
June 20, 2013, 06:58 PM
I'd love to answer, but there is NO answer until you tell us what 7mm???

DM

appalachian hunter
June 21, 2013, 07:58 AM
i meant 7mm rem mag

Zeke/PA
June 21, 2013, 08:39 AM
You can't go wrong with the .30-'06. Savage markets a nice rifle that will fit your needs I'm sure. However, if you can afford a Winchester Model 70 so much the better.

Lloyd Smale
June 21, 2013, 08:44 AM
ya need a couple of both

saulteux
June 21, 2013, 09:31 AM
It's a wash.

DM~
June 21, 2013, 10:02 AM
hi fellas, i'm asking what is you guy's opinion on 3006 vs 7mm
wanna buy a new rifle and cant decide
knock down power,range,availlable ammo,etc
i'll be hunting moose deer and bears with it
pump-semi-bolt lever.....
what you guys prefer and for what reason
thnks in advance

Your first problem is going to find choises in a pump gun in 7 mag... or a lever in 30-06 or 7 mag. ect... I'm not saying they aren't available, it's just that you don't have many choises, that leaves you with a bolt action for both.

I've shot a lot of big game with both cartridges and PROPERLY loaded both will do the job. The 30-06 will be lighter and because of that, with similar bullet weights the "felt" recoil will be similar, also the bbl will usally be longer on the 7 mag, makeing it less handy... (22" vs 24")

In this case, i'd pick the 30-06, it will do anything you want to do, as long as you put the right loads in it, and do your part.

BTW, 30-06 ammo is cheaper too! So, practise with your new rifle often!!

DM

nathan
June 21, 2013, 10:07 AM
both will do the job well. Pick the one that you want.

WayBeau
June 21, 2013, 04:50 PM
I take the 30-06 to the woods when I'm not bow hunting. However, like Kachok, I love that 6.5x55 round. The only reason I don't take my Swede to the woods is because it's just a little too long for where I hunt and can be a bit cumbersome to get up a tree or quickly draw down on an animal with. As soon as I have the funds saved up, I'm getting a modern 6.5 and that will he what goes with me.

That doesn't really help, I know. The '06 is great though. Like everyone's said, ammo is fairly easy to find and I wouldn't be scared to take it on just about any hunt I'd be going on (no African safaris or brown bear hunts in my future).

Bio-Chem
June 21, 2013, 05:08 PM
what would be the percentage of deer vs. bear and moose? If more bear and moose then i'd lean towards the 7mm for a bit flatter shooting, and oomph at longer ranges. Not that the 30-06 won't do. it will, and is in my opinion the best all around rifle cartridge for the lower 48. If you are using it more at longer ranges and more regularly on critters that sometimes need to be convinced to die why not go for the stronger punch? If this is predominately a deer gun that will also be used for moose/bear on occasion then I think the 30-06 would be the way to go.

Arkansas Paul
June 21, 2013, 05:48 PM
Bolt rifle, 30-06 would be my choice. The 7 mags are a very good choice as well. Recoil is virtually the same with a slight increase in the magnum. The 7 mag will outperform the 06 by a slight margin at long range, but not enough for me to take advantge of.

I'm in this category too. The slight difference in performance requires more skill than I possess to realize. My favorite two calibers are .280 and .30-06. I prefer bolt actions as well. There just isn't much in North America that you can't do with a .30-06, and nothing in the lower 48. It may not be ideal for everything, but it is serviceable for everything.

Do be careful on moose and bears though. Take broadside shots within your comfortable range. Don't go shooting a moose quartering away from you at 300+ yds with it.

Other than that, you'll be fine. I'm not even capable of those shots with the big guns.

Kachok
June 21, 2013, 07:01 PM
Alot of people say the 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag have the same recoil, having years of hands on experience with both I have to disagree, with bullets of the same weight the 7mm kicks harder by a noticeable margin, I can shoot twice as much 30-06 as I can 7mm Rem Mag before my shoulder starts stinging.
I consider the 30-06 a better balanced cartridge but you have to give the 7mm the edge if all you are concerned with is long range work, but bear in mind that the 30-06 is a respectable performer well beyond normal hunting ranges. I used to use the 7mm Rem Mag exclusively but I was in west Texas back then where big mulies and long shots across wide open terrain was the rule rather then the exception. My long range gun now is neither a 7mm or 30 caliber I bought a 270 WSM that shoots flatter then my 7mm RM and kicks a little less.

MCgunner
June 21, 2013, 08:18 PM
As a handloader, I went with 7mm magnum when I wanted a big gun. I like the 7mm ballistic coefficients. All I had at the time was a .257 Roberts and I was thinkin' I'd get to go elk hunting, never happened. Bummer. I used it on some rocky mountain mulies and west Texas whitetail, but no elk. I was really thinkin' .280, but I reasoned that I could always down load the mag to .280 performance if that's what I wanted. I never did, though. I later got a .308, so I wound up with a .30 caliber after all. :D

I don't think one will kill anything any deader than the other. I was looking at the numbers with the 7. It'll reach as far as I wanna shoot and shoot a little flatter and deliver a bit more energy on target at any range. In retrospect, though, older and wiser, which ever one floats your boat. I got the 7 in a Savage 110, 2" longer barrel and a different bolt face, but otherwise the same gun as I could have gotten in .30-06. It's a good shootin' gun even though, now, I really have little use for it back here in the woods on whitetail. I don't hunt out west anymore, but may again someday, never know. Around here, I've really been getting into my CVA Wolf front stuffer. It's kinda the polar opposite, 385 grains of 50 caliber bullet loping along at about 1500 fps. It gits 'er dun, though. :D I could see POSSIBLY getting a 75 yard shot out here. If I need a centerfire rifle, my old tried and true .257 is really enough, or my .308. Both are Remingtons.

MCgunner
June 21, 2013, 08:25 PM
There just isn't much in North America that you can't do with a .30-06, and nothing in the lower 48. It may not be ideal for everything, but it is serviceable for everything.

If I wanted to take the time, I could sit down and probably think of 50 different cartridges that this statement would apply to. :rolleyes: It's all nuance IMHO.

351 WINCHESTER
June 21, 2013, 09:53 PM
I doubt you will notice any difference in killing power. Go with the .30-06 as you can get ammo anywhere in N. America.

txcookie
June 22, 2013, 07:41 AM
30.06

Its the King of Cartridges and can handle anything thrown at it. You can feed it at any location that sells ammo and its cheap ammo. There is nothing that can compete with its FACTORY selection of ammo. Its a fast cartridge and hits hard at a distance. My Fav rifles are Bolt and My brands are Ruger and Remington. Overseas has some great stuff and if your open to a single shot the TC Encore is probably the best feeling rifle I have ever owned. My 30.06 is a TC encore I hae used my fathers remington mountain rifle in 30.06.

the 30.06 is never a bad choice!

neither is the 7mm rem:D but it kicks a bit harder and is alot harder and more pricy to feed!!!!

MCgunner
June 22, 2013, 12:40 PM
neither is the 7mm rem but it kicks a bit harder and is alot harder and more pricy to feed!!!!

How is it harder to feed? It's consistently one of the top five rounds in popularity and anywhere that sells ammo will have 7 mag in my experience. Of course, I haven't fired a factory load in decades, so that's rather moot for ME.

Everything you guys are saying about the 06 applies to the 7 mag....except you get more range and energy, a little more, anyway, and a bullet selection with better sectional densities and ballistic coefficients. :D I don't think perceived recoil is any worse in an equal, decent FITTING gun, wither. If you can't shoot a 7 mag, time to tear up you man card. :rolleyes: Get a girl's gun, say a .22-250. :neener:

txcookie
June 23, 2013, 02:44 AM
Mcgunner

I am talking factory! Growing up all i ever saw was 270, 30.06, 308, 30.30,243 and 7mm on the shelves. Not much has changed but it is getting more common to have to go to multiple stores to find the 7mm. Me thinks that the 30 mags can be blamed

Texaszach
June 25, 2013, 01:20 AM
There's just something about having an '06

Sav .250
June 25, 2013, 09:11 AM
Both cal`s will get-er done. But the "06" has a greater range of bullets weights.
Plus you can find "06" shells in any place in this country.

ZeroJunk
June 25, 2013, 10:44 AM
I never quite understood the ammo availability deal.

A hunter forgetting his ammo or running out should be a little down past forgetting your shoes on the list.

Kachok
June 25, 2013, 12:38 PM
There's just something about having an '06
+1
I never understood until I owned one.
I owned three 7mm Rem Mags and never loved any of them as much as my 30-06.

BigG
June 25, 2013, 01:54 PM
What about a 308 Winchester? That seems to be a pretty good round to me. Shoots about as well as a 30-06 and available widely.

Bio-Chem
June 25, 2013, 02:13 PM
,308 isn't really that widely available during a scare. I've always found 30-06 on the shelf. .223 and .308.....not so much. If you reload then it doesn't matter much, but if you need to buy off the shelf i'd take a 30-06 thank you very much

dprice3844444
June 25, 2013, 03:11 PM
if you have other rifles in 30 cal and can use the same heads,logistically speaking,3006 would be the best choice if your on a budget.for myself,i have several 3006 millsurp, a 300 win mag knight kp1,and several 308 rifles.powder and heads would basically be the same.

MCgunner
June 25, 2013, 03:12 PM
I am talking factory! Growing up all i ever saw was 270, 30.06, 308, 30.30,243 and 7mm on the shelves. Not much has changed but it is getting more common to have to go to multiple stores to find the 7mm. Me thinks that the 30 mags can be blamed

Actually, I've found 7 mag everywhere around our local area. Now, what I CANNOT find is .22LR. I bought a box of 50 Eley the other day for $19.95. .22LR is the hardest ammo to find in the entire continental US. So, I'm thinking about selling all my .22s because of ammo availability. I mean, you cannot buy the stuff. It's an old cartridge, maybe it's gone extinct? :rolleyes:......NOT!

Ammo availability is just not something I pay any attention to or care about, especially in center fires since I don't buy ammo for my center fires, I make it. If I get dementia so bad I forget my ammo on a trip, I guess I really don't need to be toting a firearm at all. I should sell 'em all. I might hurt myself. :rolleyes:


Originally Posted by Texaszach View Post

There's just something about having an '06


That's what they say about Harleys. I've been riding motorcycles since 1966 and I've never owned, nor will I, a Harley...slow, antiquated POSs. Maybe the .30-06 is like the HD, if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand? Well, if I don't understand, why would I care? :D

There is no magic in the .30-06. There is nothing it can do that the 7 can't do better. And, there are smaller cartridges that have been around as long or longer that can do anything the 06 can do for the recoil shy, like 7x57 and 6.5x55 Swede. I won't even mention .280 or the .270. Oh, wait, I just did. :D

There, did I shake some feathers? I ain't serious. I don't have anything against the 06, just don't see it as magic or the end all of cartridges. I could say the same about HDs. :D

matrem
June 25, 2013, 08:41 PM
Ammo for both is currently readily available for either in my neck o the woods.

Wow MC,
I've never owned an HD either, but the next time I climb on my Kawasaki with a 7 mag slung over my shoulder, I'm still gonna believe that an ought six slung on a Harley would accomplish the exact same thing.

DM~
June 25, 2013, 08:50 PM
There is no magic in the .30-06. There is nothing it can do that the 7 can't do better. And, there are smaller cartridges that have been around as long or longer that can do anything the 06 can do for the recoil shy, like 7x57 and 6.5x55 Swede. I won't even mention .280 or the .270. Oh, wait, I just did. :D


Thing is, you just had to name more than one cartridge to do what the 30-06 does on it's own...

That's the point, it does EVERYTHING pretty well, and "properly loaded" it is enough cartridge for anything that walks in NA, INCLUDING brown bears.

It's not magic, it's just the one cartridge that was designed right, to do everything pretty well in the first place... It's the BEST all "around around" big game hunting cartridge ever designed for NA...

DM

MCgunner
June 25, 2013, 08:53 PM
I'm still gonna believe that an ought six slung on a Harley would accomplish the exact same thing.

Neither will get there as fast. :D

Did you know that 9 out of ten Harleys sold in the last 30 years are still on the road?

The other 10 percent made it home. :D

.357 magnum and a KLR, slower than a Harley/.30-06. :D I just like to yank a chain now and then. Ya see, I was riding motorcycles when one percenters riding HDs didn't need a medical or law degree. But, "Wild Hogs" was a good movie :D .....

http://i54.tinypic.com/wv8h2w.jpg

Now, I was alive when the 7 mag was introduced. The .30-06 predates my ol' man. :rolleyes: It has retained wild popularity, I'll give ya that. All you need do is poll this board to prove it. :D

KDS
June 25, 2013, 08:57 PM
30-06 Tikka T3 Hunter. Have it, love it!

matrem
June 25, 2013, 09:02 PM
Thing is, you just had to name more than one cartridge to do what the 30-06 does on it's own...

Gotta jump in here again... Don't wanna appear to be taking sides..

He didn't "have" to mention those others..

Have shot and liked both for years..

7 mag is everything the ought six is...

MCgunner
June 25, 2013, 09:10 PM
Thing is, you just had to name more than one cartridge to do what the 30-06 does on it's own...

That's the point, it does EVERYTHING pretty well, and "properly loaded" it is enough cartridge for anything that walks in NA, INCLUDING brown bears.

It's not magic, it's just the one cartridge that was designed right, to do everything pretty well in the first place... It's the BEST all "around around" big game hunting cartridge ever designed for NA...

Actually, I named several cartridges any ONE of which will do EVERYTHING the 06 will do and just as well with less recoil and more efficiently.

If the 8x57 Mauser had been adopted by the US Military in 1906, would the 8x57 then be the greatest cartridge ever created? It does everything the 06 does and with a slightly bigger bullet. If it were as popular as .30 cal is in the US, there'd be more bullet selection in .323 than there is in .308 now.

I could expand that list, but I won't. I think the "best deer cartridge" thing is a little worn. I've been hearing it for all of my adult life and all my pre-adult hunting life. Was a great way to pass the time with hunting friends in high school.

Mama used to say, more'n one way to skin a cat....

DM~
June 25, 2013, 09:32 PM
Gotta jump in here again... Don't wanna appear to be taking sides..

He didn't "have" to mention those others..

Have shot and liked both for years..

7 mag is everything the ought six is...

Actually, it's MORE...

More muzzle blast.

More recoil.

More ammo cost.

Needs a longer bbl. to perform and on and on...

Look, i know what a 7 RM is like, i hunted with one for quite a while. Have you ever seen what a 175NP out of it does when it hits a brown bear?? I have and i've seen it used on moose, dall sheep and many other animals too...

DM

DM~
June 25, 2013, 09:40 PM
Actually, I named several cartridges any ONE of which will do EVERYTHING the 06 will do and just as well with less recoil and more efficiently.

If the 8x57 Mauser had been adopted by the US Military in 1906, would the 8x57 then be the greatest cartridge ever created? It does everything the 06 does and with a slightly bigger bullet. If it were as popular as .30 cal is in the US, there'd be more bullet selection in .323 than there is in .308 now.

I could expand that list, but I won't. I think the "best deer cartridge" thing is a little worn. I've been hearing it for all of my adult life and all my pre-adult hunting life. Was a great way to pass the time with hunting friends in high school.

Mama used to say, more'n one way to skin a cat....

Who said this is about deer??? The OP mentioned more than deer...

I disagree that your named cartridges will do what a 30-06 will do...

As for the 8x57, i've been shooting an 8x57 for more than 25 years, shot a LOT of big game with it loaded to european standards, and i'm here to tell you it's NOT up to the 30-06 on the biggest big game. Yes, like the 30-06 it's more than needed for whitetails, but when push comes to shove, the 30-06 out performs it on big game.

This i know from personal experience, NOT from reading it in some book!

Have you ever seen what a 200NP out of an 30-06 will do to a brown bear?? I have...

DM

MCgunner
June 25, 2013, 09:48 PM
Who said this is about deer??? The OP mentioned more than deer...

It's the old "my gun's better than your gun" argument, juvenile argument, be it deer or friggin' elephants that have fallen to the grand old 7x57 Mauser AKA .275 Rigby.

I disagree that your named cartridges will do what a 30-06 will do...

As for the 8x57, i've been shooting an 8x57 for more than 25 years, shot a LOT of big game with it loaded to european standards, and i'm here to tell you it's NOT up to the 30-06 on the biggest big game. Yes, like the 30-06 it's more than needed for whitetails, but when push comes to shove, the 30-06 out performs it on big game.

See statement concerning the .275 Rigby.

The 8mm doesn't have the selection of bullets that the .30-06 does, but if it'd been adopted by the military instead, it would. The military has set the .308 as the standard bore diameter for American rifles, it seems. Nothing magical about that number, however. .284 and .264 tend to have better ballistic coefficients and better sectional densities and, thus, will perform better all else being equal. Now, 7mm in question, the Remington Magnum, all else is superior.

matrem
June 25, 2013, 10:10 PM
Have you ever seen what a 175NP out of it does when it hits a brown bear??
No. I have not. But I envy you if you have.

Actually, it's MORE...

More muzzle blast.

More recoil.

More ammo cost.

Needs a longer bbl. to perform and on and on...


As much as I envy your brown bear experiences, I feel fortunate to have thirty five years of handloading knowledge and skills that most folks don't get to experience.

By the way.. What does a .284 175 Partition do to a brown bear?

Liberty1776
June 25, 2013, 10:12 PM
ok. I have to throw a wrench in here. stock design and gun weight have far more to do with perceived recoil than the power difference between the two. and some folks feel no difference (me) I enjoy plinking with my W'by Vanguard 7 mm Rem Mag...

DM~
June 25, 2013, 10:13 PM
It's the old "my gun's better than your gun" argument, juvenile argument, be it deer or friggin' elephants that have fallen to the grand old 7x57 Mauser AKA .275 Rigby.



See statement concerning the .275 Rigby.

The 8mm doesn't have the selection of bullets that the .30-06 does, but if it'd been adopted by the military instead, it would. The military has set the .308 as the standard bore diameter for American rifles, it seems. Nothing magical about that number, however. .284 and .264 tend to have better ballistic coefficients and better sectional densities and, thus, will perform better all else being equal. Now, 7mm in question, the Remington Magnum, all else is superior.

I fail to see the argument about the 275, as Bell was a poacher that used armour pierceing ammo at a different time when you could walk right up to big game. NOT even close to this comparison...

BTW, i've shot a LOT of big game with the 7x57 too, AND i've hunted with the 264 Win. mag. and even shot a brown bear with it...

I can see you have not done much big bear/moose hunting, or you wouldn't be trying to compare the cartridges you do, in the way you do, to the 06...

MY personal experience has shown me the difference in them in the hunting fields... I'm thinking if you had more experience with the bigger big game, you would see the difference too.

OK, i'm done here...

DM

DM~
June 25, 2013, 10:19 PM
No. I have not. But I envy you if you have.



As much as I envy your brown bear experiences, I feel fortunate to have thirty five years of handloading knowledge and skills that most folks don't get to experience.

By the way.. What does a .284 175 Partition do to a brown bear?

I started handloading in the 60's, had an ammo mfg. license through the 70's and 80's... I also designed/swaged and sold bonded core bullets...

Anyway, to answer your question, if you keep the ranges where they SHOULD be, it does a VERY good job, even on big browns... It has no problem breaking both shoulders, breaking them down on the spot. You can always walk up and give them a finisher...

A 30-06 loaded with 200NP's will do the same...

DM

fdashes
June 25, 2013, 10:23 PM
bows :evil:

Art Eatman
June 25, 2013, 10:44 PM
Reloading the '06 for critters? Well, an 00 Buck and five grains of pistol powder makes a great squirrel load. A .32-20 bullet of 80 grains ahead of a whole bunch of 3031 makes a ruinacious load for disassembling jackrabbits. Learned all that in 1950.

I hate recoil.

:D:D:D

Texaszach
June 26, 2013, 12:02 AM
Hey MC are you having fun yet? Haha

dprice3844444
June 26, 2013, 12:38 AM
Did you know that 9 out of ten Harleys sold in the last 30 years are still on the road?

The other 10 percent made it home.


great harley quote

guntha45
June 26, 2013, 12:50 AM
I'd go with the 30/06 bolt gun. Effective on any North American game. Easier to find ammo in a better variety, easier to shoot (muzzle blast/recoil), cheaper and more components if reloading. If I could have only 1 rifle it would be a 30/06, glad I can have many more than one! God bless America!

MCgunner
June 26, 2013, 04:04 PM
Hey MC are you having fun yet? Haha

Yup. :D It's interesting that some folks think the .30-06 is SO much more effective than the 7 mag which is superior in every way except it wasn't on the beaches of Iwo Jima. :rolleyes: Is this a case of patriotism blinding reality?

Big bears, Moose? If I wanted to hunt those critters I'd either rebarrel my 7 to .338 or buy another rifle.

For what I hunt, 7mm Rem Mag is a bit much. That's why I haven't taken it hunting in 20 years. The .308, basically equal to the .30-06 with the 150 grain BTs I shoot in it, does quite well on hogs and deer. The 7 is a meat tearer upper at close range, works fine out 200 yards and beyond. I could live with a thuddy ought six, but I have a .308 I like a lot and don't need the old geezer. :D Actually, I could probably get by with just my .257 anymore, but I do like that little M7 Remington. And, .308 is another round that'll kill anything the ought six will kill just as dead and it does it in a lighter, handier rifle. Oh, yeah, and the recoil is less. :neener:

Kachok
June 28, 2013, 12:49 AM
Trash talking my 06 again? LOL 308 vs 30-06 my answer is to own both, 308 for 150gr and below and 30-06 for 165gr or heavier. I don't hunt in elk country but I would take a 220gr 30 caliber Partition over any 7mm bullet on large tough game, not saying there is a huge difference or that the 30 cal is the ideal bore for that but that is the way I see it.

MCgunner
June 28, 2013, 12:11 PM
Ah, don't really care one way nor the tuther, they all do the job. This originally was about the OP's choice between 7 mag and .30-06. I know there's going to be a ton ".30-06, is there really anything else?" posts, so somebody has to point out the ballistic superiority of the big 7, right? :D I just can't let the consensus go unchallenged, especially when over half the posts point out the trait of "being available everywhere" as a big advantage. :D I mean, ain't like I can't find 7 mag on the shelves, it's everywhere even in Texas where there is no elk hunting.

Skyshot
June 28, 2013, 10:25 PM
Just buy one or the other, learn to shoot it well, the animals won't know the difference.

Kachok
June 29, 2013, 01:56 PM
Too true MC, I used nothing but the 7mm Rem Mag for over a decade and never once had trouble finding ammo. It does cost a bit more then 30-06 but you can sure find it anywhere. The big 7 sure does have some "ballistic superiority" over the 30-06 but the only place that is even noticeable is for most of us well outside our normal hunting range, for those of us who handload the difference even at extended ranges might not be as large as you might think though, Don has a 190gr SMK 30-06 load moving 2,900fps with a stout load of slow burning RL22, if I can hit that with those new 190gr Accubond LRs (.640BC) that would give most magnums a run for their money even in a stiff crosswind.

oneounceload
June 29, 2013, 06:01 PM
Pump, semi-, and lever actions can be had in '06 commonly. Not in any of the 7mm cartridges, though.

That would be incorrect, especially regarding several of the 7mm offered by Browning in both lever and semi versions

The BLR is available in 7-08, 7mm Rem mag, and 7mm WSM

The BAR is available in 7-08, 7mm Rem mag, and 7mm WSM

Personally I like the 7mm mag with a Sierra 160 or Nosler 160 Partition

MCgunner
June 29, 2013, 10:42 PM
My bud has a BAR in .300 win mag. For the recoil shy, this gun is a gas gun and it's heavy as hell. It kicks less than my .308. The 7 would even be easier on the shoulder. And, the thing is MOA accurate with the right load. He also has a BLR in .308, shorter action version than the ones offered in 7 mag and a REAL handy gun. I like that thing a lot, too. :D

22-rimfire
June 29, 2013, 11:54 PM
The choice is relatively simple for me between the two. 270 Win.... okay, back to the topic. For typical Appalachain deer and bear hunting, I'd go 30-06. If you have aspirations of hunting mule deer or perhaps elk out west, then I would go with the 7mm Rem Mag. due to its slightly better ballistics. I believe it kicks a bit harder too.

The_Armed_Therapist
June 30, 2013, 02:35 PM
The only benefit of the 7mm mag over the .30-06 is a slightly flatter trajectory. I imagine this is irrelevant since you're in Appalachia. As mentioned, the .30-06 can come in all shapes and sizes depending on your need. The only time I'd prefer a 7mm mag over a .30-06 is if I lived in the desert, and I already owned a .30-06. ;) Seriously, though, they're both great. The .30-06 just seems to make a little more sense.

Robert101
June 30, 2013, 04:40 PM
Choice between 7MM Rem Mag and 30-06? Neither one. My do almost all rifle caliber is the 308 Winchester. Now when I need more down range hitting power and flatter trajectory I lug the longer barrel 300 Mag. That is it in a nutshell. I started scaling back my choices of all the varied calibers, bullets, brass and powders to my fundamental 4 and primarily stay in the 30 caliber range except for .223 for varmits. Don't get me wrong, I think both 7MM Mag and 30-06 are fantastic cartridges I just got tired of the choices........ I was confused and now I have clarity.

Geno
June 30, 2013, 05:37 PM
If you go to http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html, and enter the following data respectively, you will see that the two choices, are within 1 inch, and 50 fps of each other from the muzzle to 500 yards, when zeroed at 300 yards.

.30-06 Sprg: 165 gr loaded to 3,100 fps
7mm Rem Mag: 150 gr loaded to 3100 fps

Save yourself the agony of deciding. Flip a coin and enjoy the cartridge. :D

Geno

MCgunner
June 30, 2013, 08:44 PM
.30-06 Sprg: 165 gr loaded to 3,100 fps
7mm Rem Mag: 150 gr loaded to 3100 fps

That'd be great if you slowed down the 150 grain 7 from it's potential and sped the .30-06 up to encroach on .300 mag velocities by going over SAAMI standard pressure limits. :rolleyes: Never try to make a .357 magnum out of a .38 by handloading. Just buy the real deal.

Geno
June 30, 2013, 08:52 PM
That is what the Remington load is listed. In terms of the .30-06, using IMR4350, it's a full-power load, yes, but safe. Link re: the 7 Rem Mag listed at 3,110 fps...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479461/remington-express-ammunition-7mm-remington-magnum-150-grain-core-lokt-pointed-soft-point-box-of-20

Factory-loaded 06 seems to be loaded light due to use in auto loaders. The max loads I have seen for the 06 is actually 3,150 fps.

Geno

kimbernut
June 30, 2013, 09:15 PM
Would be my choice with a Nikon Monarch scope up top.

MCgunner
June 30, 2013, 09:47 PM
That is what the Remington load is listed. In terms of the .30-06, using IMR4350, it's a full-power load, yes, but safe. Link re: the 7 Rem Mag listed at 3,110 fps...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479...oint-box-of-20

Factory-loaded 06 seems to be loaded light due to use in auto loaders. The max loads I have seen for the 06 is actually 3,150 fps.

Geno

You've chronoed this load? Very optimistic. My best 7 load, attenuated in the interest of accuracy and using RL22, shoots a 150 Game king out at 3200 fps and the gun is capable of 3300 with that bullet. Most ONE FIFTY grain .30-06 loads are below 3000 fps, though some factory stuff like Hornady's "light magnum" will push faster. They use a process, a drop tube thing, that's hard to duplicate and load REAL slow powder for the 06. A 165 at 3100 is a bit over the top, though. I might accept it possible for the light magnum Hornady load, but I'd wanna read the chronograph before I believed it. :D

I haven't worked with the .30-06, but it's not a magnum and I've seen a lot of test data on it over the years iin articles the writers of which used Ohlers for their numbers, not reloading data from a manufacturer.

A caveat, barrel length does make a difference. My 7 is a 24" tube, many are 26. Most 06's now days are 22". A longer tube will boost velocities. Remington could have been using a 26", even a 30" test barrel for those velocities. I'd come closer to believing them from a 26" or longer tube.

Geno
June 30, 2013, 10:06 PM
Yes, I chrono'ed my load, in my Wea Mark V, 26" barreled rifle. My rifle never hit the 3,150. I believe my max achieved was 3,110 fps. Art knows of this load too.

Re the 7 Mag, that is an impressive load! I never hand loaded for my former 7 Mag. I always shot factory Fed Premium 150s.

Geno

MCgunner
June 30, 2013, 10:14 PM
Geno, my old Speer #11 manual lists a max charge of 58.0 grains of 4350 and a 165 grain bullet moving at 2865 fps. It was shot from a 22" barrel Remington M700 with a 1:10 twist.

The manual doesn't list a 150 grain bullet in 7 mag, but a 160 with 80 grains of H870 shoots 3009 fps in the book fired from a 24" barrel Remington 700. RL 22 works much better in the big magnum, gave me 150 fps over what I got with H4831 using a 150 game king and would likely give a 160 grain bullet another 100 fps anyway over the Speer number. RL22 wasn't around when the Speer number 11 was printed. There may be a better powder than IMR 4350 for the .30-06, too, however. But, the big magnum requires slower powders. RL22 hit the sweet spot in my gun. :D I tried a LOT of loads in the thing when I got it. It's a Savage, cheap gun, kinda picky about what it likes. The RL22/150 game king shot MOA, though, my goal. Nosler 160 partitions shoot great in this gun, too.

MCgunner
June 30, 2013, 10:24 PM
Yes, I chrono'ed my load, in my Wea Mark V, 26" barreled rifle.

26" barrel answers questions. :D We're doing some apple an orange comparisons, methinks. Barrel length is important, especially with the slower powders the magnums like. I kinda wish I was working with a 26" tube. Weatherby likes 26" tubes. :D

shootr
June 30, 2013, 10:31 PM
After years of ignoring 06 for trendier "designer" loads, the last 5 -10 years I've been shedding things I don't really need, but kept my 06s and find myself shooting 06 most of all. Does everything I need and then some. BAR is a deer-killing machine and an old FN 98 is scary accurate with everything.

Were I looking for a new 06 today, think I'd find a nice, gently-used Rem 700, or a new Winnie Featherweight. Doesn't get much better!

Geno
June 30, 2013, 11:08 PM
Very true regarding barrel length. One would not likely get 3,100ish fps out of any 22" barrel. It would be pushing it probably even at a 24" barrel. I believe that the load (charge) I used was 62 grains of IMR 4350, and I used Fed 210 BR primers. I usually used Federal brass. Sometimes Remington. What I see in the reloading manuals usually restricts the 06's maximum due to autoloaders that would not endure the abuse like a bolt rifle can. Regardless, that still is a very impressive 7mm Mag load.

Believe it or not, I have been looking at a 7 Mag lately, a new in the box Wea Mark V (24" barrel), 7mm Rem Mag in the Grand Slam package. I didn't buy it a month or so because of not seeing very impressive ballistics. Given the load you have listed definitely sparks my interest. Thanks for the info. Time to revisit that package.

Thanks to the OP too, great thread! Informative, and gave me a chance to learn something too! :D

Geno

MCgunner
June 30, 2013, 11:48 PM
Yeah, good thread. I think we kicked each other around without causing any pain or suffering. :D

Geno, since you seem interested, I looked up my print out on it...69.0 grains of RL22, I'd have to go mic the OAL, but I seat the bullet just off the rifling in any rifle I'm working with. Then I make a dummy round for reference that I can set the die with when I load it.

It gave just shy of 3200 fps, 3192 at the muzzle, energy 3393 ft lbs. In MY gun, the best stat is a 11.41 Standard Deviation for a five shot string. Amazing, very consistent. Now, that's a Sierra Game King 150 grain spitzer boat tail. It's lit by a CCI 250 primer in Remington nickel brass.

I tried loads using lots of bullets from 140 up and I used several powders. In addition to the RL22, I tried IMR 7828 and H4831 which I had already for my .257 Roberts. The RL22 hands down is my favorite, most consistent, best accuracy, best velocity. As is usual, I was prompted to try it because of a magazine article I'd read on reloading the 7. I worked hard trying to find the right recipe in this Savage, bought a lot of bullets and powder. I think I'd spent less if i'd just bought a Remington 700 in the first place. LOL. The Savage is was hard to please, but persistence paid off. Also, i put a polymer stock on it, Ramline, which helped as it free floated the barrel which needed it. It did string vertically, now it doesn't.

Kachok
July 1, 2013, 01:18 AM
You've chronoed this load? Very optimistic. My best 7 load, attenuated in the interest of accuracy and using RL22, shoots a 150 Game king out at 3200 fps and the gun is capable of 3300 with that bullet. Most ONE FIFTY grain .30-06 loads are below 3000 fps, though some factory stuff like Hornady's "light magnum" will push faster. They use a process, a drop tube thing, that's hard to duplicate and load REAL slow powder for the 06. A 165 at 3100 is a bit over the top, though. I might accept it possible for the light magnum Hornady load, but I'd wanna read the chronograph before I believed it. :D

I haven't worked with the .30-06, but it's not a magnum and I've seen a lot of test data on it over the years iin articles the writers of which used Ohlers for their numbers, not reloading data from a manufacturer.

A caveat, barrel length does make a difference. My 7 is a 24" tube, many are 26. Most 06's now days are 22". A longer tube will boost velocities. Remington could have been using a 26", even a 30" test barrel for those velocities. I'd come closer to believing them from a 26" or longer tube.
Pushing a 150gr 06 over 3k is not nearly as hard as you think, it is called RL19. Just so happens that is also the most accurate load I have ever shot in my 06. At it's upper limits the 30-06 is a beast, too much so for deer hunting.

MCgunner
July 1, 2013, 11:04 AM
Pushing a 150gr 06 over 3k is not nearly as hard as you think, it is called RL19.

Yeah, but the bullet weight in question was 165 grains and he is getting 3100 fps. But, the answer was in the barrel length. 26" is long for a .30-06. Most guns in .30-06 have 22" barrels, but Weatherby loves the longer barrel lengths. :D This explains it to me.

Yes, some loads in .30-06 are too much for whitetails, especially Texas whitetails, but you don't have to push ANY cartridge to its limits. But, I know, for a guy like me that's always been about horsepower, that's hard to avoid. :D These higher velocity loads make more sense out in the open desert and the mountains, though. Still, I've taken whitetail past 300 yards with the lowly .257 Roberts. One does not need a cannon for deer, whitetail OR mule deer. I bought my 7 when I thought I was going to get an elk hunt. I felt the .257 a bit light for elk. I wound up shooting mulies and whitetails with the 7. Then, I won a .25-06 BDL in a gun show door prize raffle, traded it for my .308, and I've been a little infatuated with THAT gun since then.

It don't have to be a cannon to hunt whitetail, but I guess the OP is lookin' at whatever he's going to run in to in north America. Either of these cannons can do the job in North America. I just really like 7mm bullets. BCs and SDs are excellent and they have a little more meat than the 6.5s which offer even better SDs and BCs. If I couldn't have found that M7 in .308 (which I wanted), I'd been perfectly happy with a 7-08, another fantastic cartridge that takes advantage of the 7mm bullet selection.

Really, what it comes down to is personal preference. Either gun will do the same jobs. The 7 just gives me a bit more and, hell, I mean, you HAVE to own at least ONE belted magnum, right? :D

Geno
July 1, 2013, 12:12 PM
Yup, but kicking each other around respectfully seems to be what hunters do, seeking to challenge others' posts as to their authenticity, versus just hot-air posts. :) Besides, back when I was professional in Taekwondo, I got kicked around much worse. :D Sad part was I seemed to enjoy it, and kept going back for more, for years.

Thanks for the reloading input on the 7mm Rem Mag.

Geno

Kachok
July 1, 2013, 12:27 PM
It don't have to be a cannon to hunt whitetail, but I guess the OP is lookin' at whatever he's going to run in to in north America. Either of these cannons can do the job in North America. I just really like 7mm bullets. BCs and SDs are excellent and they have a little more meat than the 6.5s which offer even better SDs and BCs. If I couldn't have found that M7 in .308 (which I wanted), I'd been perfectly happy with a 7-08, another fantastic cartridge that takes advantage of the 7mm bullet selection.

Really, what it comes down to is personal preference. Either gun will do the same jobs. The 7 just gives me a bit more and, hell, I mean, you HAVE to own at least ONE belted magnum, right? :D
Yep the 7mm-08 is a fantastic little cartridge, much more pleasant to shoot then any 7mm Mag, don't have enough hunting experience with it yet to vouch for it as the ultamate deer hunting cartridge as some have done, but the ballistics are impressive for such a small cartridge, packs alot of punch for it's lack of real recoil, my A-Bolt synthetic weighs just over 6lbs and has a nothing of a recoil pad and it is very pleasant to shoot even at max loads, 120gr Pro Hunters at 2950fps (my most accurate load) have mild 243 level recoil.
There are long barreled 30-06s that special edition Winchester 70 and the Ruger #1 both come to mind, I also like longer barrels to a point, I always have thought 24" barrels are superior to the 22" barrels for 30-06, 270 Win, 25-06, 280 ....etc. I think Kimber has it right 22" tubes on short action 308 family cartridges, 24" on 30-06 family cartridges and 26" on belted magnums, that makes alot of sense to me.

rodregier
July 1, 2013, 12:53 PM
Look at the ammunition available on the shelves of a couple of country stores as part of your decision-making process.

H&Hhunter
July 4, 2013, 10:26 PM
Lets keep it real folks.

The 7 Rem Mag has been known to bounce off bunny rabbit skin. 8 out of every 10 people who shoot a 7 RM are kind of goofy looking. The "Best of the West" TV guy is a big 7RM fan and he wears lipstick and eyeliner on his show. What more do you need to know, really?

Men and women who shoot the .30-06 are known for their good looks and athleticism. Many times when a game animal finds that the hunter pursuing them is carrying a .30-06 the animal surrenders, walks into camp where it skins and quarters itself. Carlos Hathcock, Ernest Hemingway, Theodore Roosevelt, Elmer Fud, Eric the Red, Gengis Khan and Conan the Barbarian all shot the .30-06.

Real hunters, men among men and women among women, Romans and fellow countrymen shoot the and hunt with the .30-06. The .30-06 is the riflemen cartridge.

The 7RM is the sensitive new age "special" cartridge of the gun world. And only goofy looking guys wearing lipstick tend to own and shoot them.

The factual information above should settle this earth shatteringly important argument once and for all.

Case closed.

Art Eatman
July 4, 2013, 11:42 PM
A closing statement to be lauded for its extreme accuracy!

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