Suggest a safe for me


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wheatthins
June 20, 2013, 12:56 PM
First time poster, apoligize if posting in wrong place.
I tried to find the answer to this already, but kept getting sucked into off topic discussions.
I need a new thing (call it a "safe", "fireproof box" or "security container", or whatever the apropriate title).
Factors:
1. I am active duty, and move often, so weight is a concern.
2. I have 4 long guns, one w/scope, plans for maybe 4 more- I am more of a "user" than a "collector"...and I need room the the typical other stuff stored.
3. budget about $1300; would go more if there is a compelling reason; would be happier if I could find a $799 deal I see in the posts from a couple years back.
4. fire protection is more a concern than theft resistance, if I have to priortize the two.
5. I don't care about finish; this will be in a closet or bolted in the basement; I keep looking for a used safe, but can't find one.
/
For a starting point, I have been considering the liberty products, the centurion deluxe, colonial (cabellas branded "timber ridge"), maybe the franklin 27 (above my budget and needs)/

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Outlaw Man
June 20, 2013, 02:14 PM
Welcome aboard, and thank you for your service.

Are you just looking for protection against smash-and-grabs and the occasional random burglar who has no idea what to expect or against someone who may have planned it out and have a lot of time?

Are you living in apartment/duplex type housing or stand alone homes? I ask because extra fire protection generally means extra weight. If you're on a slab, it's not really an issue until you have to move it.

RubenZ
June 20, 2013, 03:10 PM
How about these!! (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FDIUPE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B005FDIUPE&linkCode=as2&tag=vershomandgar-20) You can actually buy more than 2 for your price range.

Or this one (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DELUPU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002DELUPU&linkCode=as2&tag=vershomandgar-20) is a bit bigger with a 14 gun and 24 gun option.

CB900F
June 20, 2013, 03:24 PM
Wheat;

I cut & pasted this from a reply I made in the Moore Oklahoma Tornado thread. I believe it applies here also.

That's an excellent reason to very carefully research, if you can, the differences in the thermal protection ratings amongst the RSC's in the market today. However, finding the details of the testing methods & differences between the Omega Laboratories, Pyro-3000, BTU, and other cited thermal ratings is nigh unto impossible.

In my professional opinion, the only one worth paying any attention to is the U.L. one hour test. With that one you can go online & find out how that's conducted. With the others, well, was the safe upright in the furnace or laid on it's back? Did the test period timer start when the interior of the furnace reached test temperature, or when the gas was lit? If when the gas was lit, how long did it take to ramp up to the rated test temperature? In other words, did it spend eight minutes out of 30 at 1200 degrees, or 25? There are at least a dozen other questions like these that can be posed, where the answers make a material difference in the actual protective capabilities of the unit you may be considering buying.

Good Luck, 900F

Torian
June 20, 2013, 03:27 PM
If you are looking to spend less than 1000, I recommend looking at Costco or Sam's Club for their safe options (online).

You can usually save a bundle on shipping and delivery when you order through them. I had a 500 pound Mesa safe delivered from Sams Club, to include threshold delivery, for under 200.

I went to a local safe company to try to find something comparable, but they couldn't even come close on the pricing, let alone they charged 400 to deliver a safe with the exact same dimensions.

Buck1959
June 20, 2013, 04:32 PM
I own two Liberty safes. I have a Centurion 22 and a Timber Ridge 23. both are fire rated by U.L. and both have lifetime warranties. I paid under $1,000 for each.

MErl
June 20, 2013, 08:14 PM
Another option is to get a smaller but higher rated firesafe made for documents. Store the bolts in there for safety and bump up your insurance a little to cover the risk of losing the rifles.

4v50 Gary
June 20, 2013, 09:43 PM
I'd rather get a AmSec TF or better yet, BF model. I'd also consider Zanotti Armor.

CB900F
June 20, 2013, 10:12 PM
Buck;

I'll venture to say that the U.L. sticker is an RSC rating. The thermal protection numbers are very likely either Omega Labs, or cited as the BTU test.

900F

a1abdj
June 21, 2013, 10:09 AM
Buck;

I'll venture to say that the U.L. sticker is an RSC rating. The thermal protection numbers are very likely either Omega Labs, or cited as the BTU test.



Liberty has never sold a safe with a UL fire rating. They did used to place the RSC sticker next to their fire sticker, to make them look like one. At a casual glance, one could get the impression that the UL sticker was for fire as well.

tarosean
June 21, 2013, 10:25 AM
I'll venture to say that the U.L. sticker is an RSC rating. The thermal protection numbers are very likely either Omega Labs, or cited as the BTU test.


What about an FIL rating?


(I'm also in the market for another safe/RSC)

CB900F
June 21, 2013, 10:29 AM
Tarosean;

FIL rating?

900F

Jim K
June 21, 2013, 10:40 AM
If you don't move too often, a modular safe might be one answer; it can be disassembled and re-assembled wherever you want it. Downside is no fire protection.

Jim

tarosean
June 21, 2013, 10:53 AM
CB near as I can tell = Fire insurance laboratories

Its nowhere near the usual claims of 1200f +/- for so and so minutes. So I was left scratching my head for this 350F x 90mins

a1abdj
June 21, 2013, 11:17 AM
So I was left scratching my head for this 350F x 90mins

350 degree internal temperature, which is the goal for all of these types of test. The external testing temperature will be 1,200 plus.

All of these are independent testing, and none of them are anywhere near as severe as UL testing. Some are more credible than others. I would look at the construction of these safes more than the sticker on the door. 5/8" gypsum is 5/8" gypsum. If both safes have three layers, they should both offer similar protection even if one has a 60 minute sticker, and the other a 45 minute sticker.

If fire protection is important, a UL rated safe is the only answer. That will rule out all of the gun safes.

tarosean
June 21, 2013, 02:52 PM
Thanks for the info...

All of these are independent testing


I think that's what compounds the issues with searching (for me atleast)
Too many acronyms.

AABEN
June 21, 2013, 04:02 PM
Jest be shore that it is twice as big as you think will be OK. That way you only buy one.

wheatthins
June 22, 2013, 10:29 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. To answer outlaw-yes I am
Looking to deter the smash and grab. I live in houses, so I have a slab to bolt it to.
I'll let this group know what I come up with.
Thanks,
Wheatthins

wheatthins
June 22, 2013, 10:39 PM
Is this reasonable:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002QQ7LG2/ref=pd_aw_sbs_hi_5?pi=SY115

CB900F
July 11, 2013, 08:25 AM
Wheat;

That unit is almost certainly made in the PRC. I'd not want it because of the digital lock. If a digital isn't a LaGard, S&G, or AMSEC, it's probably made offshore & of suspect reliability. Therefore, in that price range, go for the mechanical dial.

I'm also not a fan of buying on-line for things like that. Much better to be able to see it & inspect it for yourself. How's the door to frame fit? We've seen a picture posted here of a gap big enough to put your finger around the corner of the door, and that's an open invitation for a pry attack. Are the hinges robust enough to support the weight of the door over the long term? Or is the door gonna sag in eight years? When you open the door 90 degrees & put a little weight on the top corner does the safe feel like it wants to tip over? In other words is all the "sale" in the door & the rest of the unit is just a tin box? I could go on.

900F

F5guy
July 11, 2013, 08:39 AM
Best value for the money http://www.stack-on.com/categories/security-cabinets-gun-cabinets and places like midsouth ship for free. Easy to move when empty and loaded with guns and ammo can't be packed up. Then get one of those fireproof boxes from homedepot for your papers. I've never seen the need for a fireproof safe that's what insurance is for.

KansasSasquatch
July 11, 2013, 10:31 AM
Best value for the money http://www.stack-on.com/categories/security-cabinets-gun-cabinets and places like midsouth ship for free. Easy to move when empty and loaded with guns and ammo can't be packed up. Then get one of those fireproof boxes from homedepot for your papers. I've never seen the need for a fireproof safe that's what insurance is for.
Unless you have an irreplaceable firearm such as a true collector piece or an heirloom gun that's been passed down through generations. Or even a class 3 firearm or device that you'd probably have to go through a bunch of paperwork and waiting to replace. Who wants the added trouble of that if your house just burned down?

CB900F
July 12, 2013, 10:46 AM
Fella's;

The smallest Graffunder long gun true safe weighs 1225 lbs empty. I can move one by myself - easily. I'm in my sixties and don't even consider it to be a real job. If you think a loaded stack-on can't be carted off by anyone who knows how to move things, you're fooling yourself.

Bolting down will help. I'd also have a layered system of home protection also.

900F

Walkalong
July 12, 2013, 11:41 AM
1. I am active duty, and move often, so weight is a concern.
2. I have 4 long guns, one w/scope, plans for maybe 4 more- I am more of a "user" than a "collector"...and I need room the the typical other stuff stored.
3. budget about $1300; would go more if there is a compelling reason; would be happier if I could find a $799 deal I see in the posts from a couple years back.
4. fire protection is more a concern than theft resistance, if I have to priortize the two.
5. I don't care about finish; this will be in a closet or bolted in the basement; I keep looking for a used safe, but can't find one.
You just described a Sturdy (http://www.sturdysafe.com/) "safe". They are certainly worth as look, especially with the steel thickness upgrade. I have a 36X27X60 and it can be moved fairly easily. Being able to remove the door really helps there. It is head and shoulders better than any import with 12 gauge steel and composite doors.

Torian
July 12, 2013, 06:06 PM
I have that MESA safe, but with a regular dial. Nothing wrong with a PRC. Like any other safe, you get what you pay for.

I agree on forgetting the digital lock...go with analog!

As I already told the OP earlier...if you want a Mesa brand safe, go with Sam's Club. They have the same safe you are looking at for almost 200 dollars cheaper, and shipping about 100 dollars cheaper.

Trying to help you out here :)

Carmmond
July 19, 2013, 10:33 AM
I just got the Mesa the other day on Amazon with free shipping for $709:) It has the digital lock but for the price and free shipping I could not pass it up. Its up to $781 now but still has free shipping. I ordered it on Monday and it's' showing I will get it on the 24th.
Better yet I had points on one of my Credit cards I used so I got it for around $370 all said and done:evil:

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Company-MBF5922E-Cubic-Rifle-Digital/product/B002QQ7LFI

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