Beginner; Jacketed or Lead ??


PDA






CPLofMARINES
June 21, 2013, 07:25 PM
I have heard that it is better for a beginner to start with
Jacketed bullets as opposed to Lead. Why is this ??
Thank you for your help.

SEMPER FI

If you enjoyed reading about "Beginner; Jacketed or Lead ??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
CPLofMARINES
June 21, 2013, 07:27 PM
BTW, this would be for handgun; .38/.357 and .44/.44Mag

Katitmail
June 21, 2013, 07:30 PM
I bought lead bullets for my MAK (nothing else was available). Problem I have is leading of the barrel.

Check my post here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=720124

Basically with lead you will have to get faster powder, load closer to max, make sure they sized properly (if you have choice). It's doable, but jacketed bullets shiny, clean and easy to load for newbie

Walkalong
June 21, 2013, 07:37 PM
I started with lead in .38 Spl, 9MM, and .45 ACP due to cost. I simply could not afford to shoot jacketed. There is no reason not to start with lead.

Leading can be avoided, and it's not that difficult to do.

Eb1
June 21, 2013, 07:48 PM
For 44 Magnum I shoot Missouri Cast Bullets LSWC and RNFP @ 240 grains for both. I have never had a leading issue in my Ruger SBH, and I have shot over 100 rounds in a session. These are plain base bullets (doesn't have a gas check).
I am sure their .357/.38 bullets are just as good.

I keep them between 1100 and 1300 fps for the .44 Magnum.

I don't think you'll have a problem with either. It is just that when loading jacketed you don't have to worry as much with the powder burn cutting the bullet for leading. Faster powders cut the plain base bullets.

I prefer shooting lead in my .44 Magnum. It has never had a factory bullet through shot out of it. Lead is just as accurate in a handgun as jacketed. Like I said, you just have to be more aware of what is happening in the barrel with what powder you are choosing to use, and pay more attention to the velocity range that keeps leading to a minimum, and stay there.
A Chrony is a good tool to have when handloading.

I would rather shoot my .44 Mag with LSWC or RNFP at 1100 fps max at 1300ish than pushing a Hornady XTP 1500 fps. To an animal it doesn't matter, and to my hand it matters a lot.
I shoot for fun and accuracy so lead works just fine. If I need something more than a 240 grain lead flat nose bullet moving over 1100 fps, then I'll take a rifle or shotgun.

rcmodel
June 21, 2013, 08:00 PM
Some would argue that modern reloading dies are slanted toward jacketed bullets.

However, I started with my own cast bullets in .38 Spl, and .45 ACP in 1962, and it hasn't turned out half bad so far.

If you get over the humps & bumps of making & loading cast bullets before internet days to begin with?

You can reload any darn thing that comes along later.
And figure out your own humps & bumps by yourself if you have to.

rc

USSR
June 21, 2013, 08:17 PM
For revolvers, I see no need to use anything other than cast bullets, especially if you cast your own as I do. As Walkalong said "Leading can be avoided", and that is really the only potential downside to using cast bullets.

Don

splattergun
June 21, 2013, 08:20 PM
delete

bigfinger76
June 21, 2013, 09:36 PM
You'll have fewer variables with jacketed/plated.

GLOOB
June 21, 2013, 09:44 PM
For revolvers, I see no need to use anything other than cast bullets, especially if you cast your own as I do.
For me, a locked breech semi auto is the ideal way to launch cast pistol bullets. Less smoke, no powder stained lube to wipe away, and I've never owned a semiauto with a bore constriction or undersize cylinder throats. But, yeah. I shoot cast bullets in my revolvers. It's just that I shoot 'em in all my firearms, and the semiauto handguns shoot 'em just as good or better in every case.

KansasSasquatch
June 21, 2013, 10:02 PM
I like plated bullets. No worry about leading and cheaper than jacketed. I started with Berry's and Rainier and ended up loading them all to mid-range jacketed data when working up loads. But I use them all now, just depends on their intended purpose.

Jesse Heywood
June 21, 2013, 10:13 PM
As a kid my first loads were recovered lead. Cleaned, sorted, lubed and loaded. Loaded nothing but jacketed on my second go-around, that's what my mentor loaded. Now I'm back to lead, and wouldn't hesitate to start a rookie with lead. A friend that teaches loading teaches with lead.

1SOW
June 21, 2013, 10:15 PM
There is a separate learning curve for lead hardness and sizing vs jacketted load and shoot.
Lead has run for way longer than jacketted, but jacketted simplifies the basic reloading process.

I'm not trying to get any hackles up. I'm just learning about lead now and have a couple thousand to try out (9mm).

arizona98tj
June 21, 2013, 10:16 PM
I have heard that it is better for a beginner to start with
Jacketed bullets as opposed to Lead. Why is this ??

I started reloading back in the '70s and I must have missed the memo that suggested that....I spent the first several years loading my own cast bullets....couldn't afford jacketed bullets.

Fast forward to present....I prefer plated bullets unless I can find jacketed for a cheaper price. Cleanup after shooting is typically easier. That being said, I've got plenty of good ol' lead bullets to load.

Conservidave
June 21, 2013, 11:57 PM
"I have heard that it is better for a beginner to start with
Jacketed bullets as opposed to Lead"

What are your choices for bullets right now? anything can be successfully loaded (even by a nooby) it just depends on what you have available. Do your research, take notes and work it out incrementally. It's all part of the learning process, some loads will be less than expected and some better than expected. I'm a nooby myself and find that the research and experimentation is half the fun of it. It wont be long until you develop a few pet loads of your own that you can report on!

Dave,

stavman11
June 22, 2013, 09:31 AM
For me... when i started loading .357 and then 9mm this year... it was WHAT could i get.. so most where cast from RMR and Falcon... i have also added some Berry's also

I see a plated would be possibly easier since more data is directed towards Plated.... But I found out cast is just as easy to find once ya know what you have..and about 1/2 the cost of Plated


So for me its what i find and like... as in Profile... and then cost... Mine are for Plunking... and when i go shoot 200 9mm in a day.... 8x a month... it adds up

:D

USSR
June 22, 2013, 06:08 PM
Quote:
For revolvers, I see no need to use anything other than cast bullets, especially if you cast your own as I do.

For me, a locked breech semi auto is the ideal way to launch cast pistol bullets. Less smoke, no powder stained lube to wipe away, and I've never owned a semiauto with a bore constriction or undersize cylinder throats. But, yeah. I shoot cast bullets in my revolvers. It's just that I shoot 'em in all my firearms, and the semiauto handguns shoot 'em just as good or better in every case.

GLOOB,

I use cast bullets in semiautos as well. The reason I said revolvers is the OP asked about revolver cartridges.

Don

beatledog7
June 22, 2013, 07:37 PM
For a revolver it makes little difference, but I would recommend starting with a cannelured bullet....not plated, and not any sort of full wadcutter.

For semi-autos I think it's easier to achieve early success with lead round nose or FMJ bullets. Setting OAL can be a mystery for new handloaders, and bullets with a round nose are less troublesome, therefore less frustrating.

buck460XVR
June 23, 2013, 11:42 AM
I am one of those that suggests jacketed bullets for the beginner reloader......especially if they are lookin' at reloading for a magnum revolver using legitimate magnum loads. Jacketed bullets are much more forgiving to over/under sized throats and bores, which means successful accuracy. They also are less picky about amount of flare when being seated and without a concern of barrel leading can be shot and accuracy determined by powder charge, not by how clean the barrel is. Getting the basics down for a correct and safe loading procedure can be intimidating enough without having to worry about Brinell hardness, and under/oversized bullets. Most LGS carry a wider variety of jacketed bullets in small quantities such as 50-100 in stock, as opposed to lead bullets. The diameter of those jacketed bullets they have in stock WILL work well in your firearms.....the diameter of those lead bullets MAY work well in your firearms. Just a matter of simplicity.

That said...there is nuttin' wrong with lead bullets and yes one can certainly learn to reload using them. If there is nuttin' else available in your area, I know that your anxiousness or need to reload will dictate you go that route. But if you have a choice, because of the ease of having early success with jacketed bullets, I suggest you get those and then later on, when you have honed your basic skills, the use of lead will be much easier.

340PD
June 23, 2013, 11:54 AM
All I load is plated in every caliber. I find it to be the best of both worlds with the cost somewhere in between. I

mdi
June 23, 2013, 01:07 PM
To answer your question; jacketed bullet loading is simpler than lead for a new loader. Not a lot, but a jacketed bullet is just a jacketed bullet. Lead bullet considerations are bullet hardness/alloy, bullet lube, bullet diameter, case preparation, powders compatible with lead, and a few more I can't think of right now. Jacketed are somewhat cleaner to handle when loading, and cast bullet lube doesn't get in the dies and on yer fingers.

Now someone will post, nitpicking about lead vs jacketed , and my opinion is wrong (98% of my reloading is with my own cast bullets in 9 different guns), but for a new reloader, jacketed bullets are a bit simpler to learn with...

gamestalker
June 23, 2013, 01:37 PM
Loading with jacketed is very straight forward, and for the most part because jacketed data is very standardized. Lead requires multiple criteria to be taken into consideration such as, bullet style, bullet diameter, and lead hardness, to mention just a few, then matching up load data with the specifics of the lead bullet characteristics and profile. And then velocities are a concern with lead, and must be matched up with the size and hardness of the bullet too. So it involves more than I care to indulge in, but that's just me, as I have found that wuite a few more reloaders use lead than jacketed bullets.

Jacketed is usually as simple as finding the powder data that applies to that weight bullet. It's for this reason among others, that I have never loaded with anything but jacketed. Though it is more expensive to load jacketed, I still find it to be significantly less expensive than buying a box of jacketed, in most cases. I often locate bulk deals for jacketed, even during these tough times we are currently experiencing I have been able to load for .357, 9mm, and .40 for about 50% or more under retail prices. Not to mention that the quality of my loads verses factory, is exceptionally better, especially when getting into self defense JHP's. Stuff like Gold Dots, XTP's, Golden Saber and the like will often go for $1 or more per round retail, verses .30 -.40 per round for my reloads of at least matched quality, or better.

Oh, and jacketed doesn't trash your gun with lead fouling, and smokey loads are the standard and often severe when loading lead.

GS

Springfield0612
June 24, 2013, 05:55 PM
"Oh, and jacketed doesn't trash your gun with lead fouling, and smokey loads are the standard and often severe when loading lead."

Please explain this?

Then please explain how jacketed bullets will cause wear on the rifling of a barrel eventually wearing it out, yet due to the softness of lead it will never happen. Just currious to hear your facts on lead trashing a gun as you have clearly stated your expertise with lead bullets.

"I have never loaded with anything but jacketed."

You do seem informed on the process and needs of shooting cast but when you pass on bad information to uninformed people they may take your word for it and then pass that on to others. Seems to be the same issue why the uninformed public fears "Black" guns, someone said they were bad and scary and people started believing them. You've made the same statement in your post that shooting lead bullets will trash a gun. Simply not true.

Katitmail
June 24, 2013, 06:31 PM
Smoking is a concern for some. If you shoot indoors it might be really bad.

Eb1
June 24, 2013, 06:49 PM
It is bad anyway due to the primer compound to shoot indoors, and most jacketed handgun bullets have bare lead bases. Your statement holds some water, but is far from the top.

Katitmail
June 24, 2013, 06:51 PM
It is bad to shoot indoors - agree. But I've seen people stop shooting because of smoke caused by one shooter :) You just can't see target. Sure it was excessive, but it's still annoying indoors.

Walkalong
June 24, 2013, 06:54 PM
Unless you are a competitive or prolific shooter, you would be hard pressed to wear out a handgun barrel with jacketed bullets, but you will likely never wear one out with lead.

CPLofMARINES
June 24, 2013, 11:24 PM
Thank you everyone for your wealth of knowledge as
Always!!

engineermike
June 24, 2013, 11:38 PM
I subscribe to the old school, that you don't know whats wrong with it until you use it. Both bullets come with some problems but that is half the fun of reloading, and that is working up a load and making your adjustments as you go. I used to load only plated bullets but then the "Big Scare" hit and lead was all I could either buy or afford. I like both but glad I took the time to work with lead.

zxcvbob
June 25, 2013, 12:06 AM
There is no reason not to use lead in .38 and .44 Special. You can make a good argument either way on the .357 and .44 Magnums.

Bovice
June 25, 2013, 02:03 AM
Lead has obvious drawbacks in terms of exposure, whereas a plated bullet will expose you to considerably less lead. A true jacketed bullet still has an exposed rear though. Pretty much any indoor facility will not let you use lead bullets, and some are as strict as to require CMJ or plated bullets. If you're truly worried about your lungs though, be advised that discharging a gun puts more than just lead dust into the air. You also shouldn't smoke or go to bars either. I'd imagine that's got to be worse than anything firearm related.

As for barrel wear, the cost of a new barrel is going to be insignificant compared to what you will have spent on components to load rounds for the gun, whether you used lead bullets, plated, or jacketed.

Loading lead bullets isn't much more trouble than plated or jacketed. You'll have to work up the load just like you would with any bullet, and check your barrel for lead as you go up. Once you find the sweet spot, you won't see any leading. Other than that, all the standard rules apply. So load whatever you can find or whatever you can afford. If you run into trouble, we can help.

gamestalker
June 25, 2013, 05:06 PM
I'm not intending to knock the use of lead. I was just addressing some of the most common obstacles that are encountered. I have never personally loaded lead, but I have shot a good deal of it prior to ever taking up reloading, to which I found personally undesirable. And, I think it's pretty evident regarding the regular stream of questions and issues that reach this forum in this regard, that it can be a bit challenging in comparison to loading jacketed. And yes, until one has figured it out, they do complain of heavy leading problems, and difficulty trying to determine what data applies to the vast array of lead projectiles. It is also recommended to slug the barrel in order to know what diameter bullet is best suited for a particular firearm. Just more work than I care to indulge in, but lead still remains the most used projectile by reloaders, hands down.

And although some jacketed bullets, not all, do have an exposed lead base, they don't leave lead fouling in the barrel, ever, and they are loaded with standard jacketed data.

There is nothing wrong with lead, I just don't personally care for the degree of work up and research required, or the excessive smoke, and yes, lead deposits that can be problematic.

But from a positive point of view, lead bullets have some of the most lethal potential when using the right projectile and powder combination. I think the Kieth is a fine example of how well a lead projectile can perform, an obvious winner in my opinion.

Load what you want. This is a hobby with something for everyone.

GS

Katitmail
June 25, 2013, 05:33 PM
I looked at it different way. Average 3c cost difference between lead and plated/fmj will transfer to $360/year if you shoot 1000 rounds a month.

To me it makes sense to load lead as I can buy new gun every year with those savings :) For my current IDPA gun (HK P7) I have to use FMJ/plated but for everything else I'm going to "deal" with lead problems.

Eb1
June 25, 2013, 08:12 PM
Look at post #4. http://www.biggamehunt.net/forum/lead-rifle-bullets-relic-past

Here is a lead bullet after hitting a moose shoulder breaking it, and it still mushroomed perfectly.

I find the savings and accuracy of lead in a handgun completely worth it. I load lead in my .44 Magnum with a Dillon 550B. Nothing special about it really.

If you enjoyed reading about "Beginner; Jacketed or Lead ??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!