list of blackpowder cartridges


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lansdale
June 23, 2013, 03:53 PM
Hi everyone,

i am looking for some sort of list of blackpowder cartridges, both rifle and pistol/revolver, to make my search for guns i can legally own in the netherlands without a license a bit easier.

in the netherlands 90% of blackpowder antiques are cheap belgian pinfire revolvers which i dont like, and the usual side by side shotguns.

i have been looking to make a list myself for a while now but some cartridges turn out to have started as blackpowder and were later filled with nitro powder at some point but i cannot find the right date


does anyone know where i can find a good list that shows all original blackpowder cartridges including dates when they where changed to nitro powder?

kind regards, lansdale

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72coupe
June 23, 2013, 03:59 PM
That would be an interesting list. Sorry can't help.

Fingers McGee
June 23, 2013, 04:13 PM
"Cartridges of the World" 13th Edition should help. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cartridges+of+the+world+13th+edition

Try here for a free download http://www.2shared.com/document/m3DIDfnx/Cartridges_of_the_World_-_A_Co.html

MErl
June 23, 2013, 05:05 PM
that free download has some nice amazon javascript ads in it but seems to be blank otherwise

Steel Horse Rider
June 23, 2013, 05:34 PM
Try the Dutch Beaumont model 71/88 in 11.3 x 50R. I have one and it is great fun to shoot although the rounds are a little pricey. I plan to reload the brass once I have produced about 50 or so empty brass casings so it won't be too bad after the first round.....

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/milsurp/dbmt.html

alsaqr
June 23, 2013, 09:23 PM
Try here for a free download

Don't do it. The program changed my default browser.

Don McDowell
June 23, 2013, 10:25 PM
If you get ahold of a copy of something like the Remington and Winchester catalogs from the 1870's that would give you an idea of what was available in the US.
A Rigby catalog would also give you some insight as to what was available in Europe.

Cosmoline
June 23, 2013, 10:48 PM
That's a tall order. The list is not only long and interesting, but pretty confusing. Most of the time the bullet caliber will be first, then the standard powder charge, then sometimes the bullet weight. But I'm not sure it would be all that helpful in your quest:

to make my search for guns i can legally own in the netherlands without a license a bit easier.

I think you're probably going to have the best luck contacting folks at the gun clubs. The supply of approved arms is going to determine what you can get ahold of. I'm pretty sure there are rolling blocks around there. But there are also weird laws about military chamberings that may apply to old BPCR's. Check with these guys:

http://www.schietsport.com/dutchmuzzleloaders/index.htm

Don't do it. The program changed my default browser.

Also, that's a copyrighted work and unless you're paying then the download is likely not legit.

BCRider
June 24, 2013, 02:14 PM
The list of what you can legally own is likely not the same as any sort of comprehensive listing in any event.

For example, here in Canada antique "no license required" arms are anything produced prior to 1898. BUT!... there's ALWAYS a "but" after all :D..... those guns chambered in still commonly available ammunition do not qualify. So an old Colt 1873 in .38Colt is an antique. But the same gun chambered in .45LC has to be registered same as a modern firearm. A gun in .32 rimfire would qualify as an antique but the same gun in .32S&W becomes a prohibited firearm based on our laws based on bore size which made the smaller .25 and .32 caliber chamberings prohibited in many cases.

Now some or none of this may apply to your country. It's simply an example of why we can't help you much. You're far better off to find out either which ammo qualifies and any exceptions for YOUR country.

As guns that may be suitable show up in your search a quick check on Wikipedia or a general search on "XX-NN ammo" will soon bring up the history on that sort of ammo. And from there I'd follow it up with "XX-NN reloading" to learn about any oddities over the sort of ammo you're considering and if the components are fairly easily obtainable. After all it doesn't help if you can't build up rounds for the thing easily enough. .32 pinfire is one example. It's a common sort of round in the old days. But just try to find affordable ammo these days or learn what it takes to reload them. You'll turn that one down regardless of the price.

And of course anything in rimfire is in the same situation. It's possible but a big deal of work to reform and re-prime the rimfire casings. And generally the casing was so thin that it's hard to reload them without a high percentage of collapsed casings unless you use a LOT of care.

If you're dedicated enough you can get just about anything to work. But you have to weigh this against the time spent and cost.

Jim K
June 24, 2013, 02:46 PM
Except for a few cartridges loaded for special purposes, I know of no cartridges being commonly loaded today with black powder. Most people wanting to use black powder (for old guns, for example) hand load with BP, using either new cases or fired cases that were originally loaded with smokeless powder.

I understand some companies in the UK still load black powder shotgun shells, but not metallic cartridges.

Black powder cartridges made prior to the advent of smokeless powder are available, but are expensive collectibles and primers are usually "dead" or the cases deteriorated.

Jim

Loyalist Dave
June 25, 2013, 09:23 AM
You could look at BUFFALO ARMS (http://www.buffaloarms.com/black_powder_ammo_pr-4431.aspx) and see what they offer in loaded, black powder, cartridges, so you can get an idea of what is available out there either ready to shoot, or what you should be able to find in components. Rolling Block rifles are still out there in .43 Spanish (11.15 x 54R) and often they go for under $500.

LD

Don McDowell
June 25, 2013, 09:44 AM
There are a number of European creedmoor shooters, at least one is in Belgium, his handle on many of the forums like bpcr.net,castbullets and Shiloh in Martiniinbelgium. It might be worth your efforts to contact him for help in your shooting project.

Gaucho Gringo
June 25, 2013, 12:31 PM
Here is an 1890 UMC price list. It should have almost every BPC ever loaded for the US market. If the OP will PM me I have some copies of price list for the European market.

72coupe
June 25, 2013, 07:09 PM
I'd like to buy a truck load of those caps listed on the first page at the prices quoted.

Pete D.
June 25, 2013, 07:20 PM
The only cartridge that I know of that was developed as a BP cartridge and is still loaded as such is the 577-450 Martini-Henry. They are hard to find and expensive.
Pete

creatineboy
June 27, 2013, 10:05 PM
so far as i always thought the advent of smokeless powder can be best epitomized in the late 1800's when the colonial hunters of Africa switched from the blackpowder "bore guns" to the .450 nitro express.

also it didnt go straight from black to modern smokeless powder, there was cordite and other stuff in between.

Jim K
June 27, 2013, 10:14 PM
I am not sure what is needed. If the law requires firing with black powder, then almost any cartridge can be loaded with black powder, though it might not be feasible (9mm Parabellum loaded with BP would not function, for example). But if the requirement is that an available cartridge always have been loaded with BP and never have been loaded with smokeless, the field becomes narrow to the point of non-existence.

Cordite, FWIW, is a smokeless powder. But in fact there were other types of powder besides the normal black powder, especially in shot shells and artillery. There was brown powder, gray powder, white powder (an early smokeless), lignite powder, etc. All except white powder were forms of black powder but different formulations gave them distinct colors, and rabid fans who insisted that "their" powder was vastly superior to others.

Jim

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