Just ordered a totally unique folder - the Boker Leo Damast II


PDA






the count
June 23, 2013, 06:10 PM
Here is a picture and link to a Youtube video (in German) which shows the exact guy that makes these blades for Boker, which then assembles, packages and distributes the knife. The blade is made out of decommissioned German Leopard II tank barrels. This is very tough and very hard steel, stuff you cannot normally get your hands on and composition which of is secret. Blade hardness of 65-67 HRC l!!!

Sure, about $400 for a folder is not cheap but there are much more expensive pocket knives that are not hand forged and do not have an ultra exotic steel like this one.

http://www.waffen-tennemann.de/images/Leo2dam.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CjCTE2kHQ

If you enjoyed reading about "Just ordered a totally unique folder - the Boker Leo Damast II" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jbkebert
June 23, 2013, 07:38 PM
That is a good looking knife. The added cool factor of being made from a tank barrel is great. Congrats on a awesome knife.

Certaindeaf
June 23, 2013, 07:47 PM
I'd try to not drop it.. the blade would probably shatter like glass.

the count
June 23, 2013, 09:17 PM
I'd try to not drop it.. the blade would probably shatter like glass.
Did the Leopard tank barrels shatter like glass? Hello, this is a military (secret) alloy, nothing you can compare to with any other knife on the market.

Sam1911
June 23, 2013, 09:37 PM
Hello, this is a military (secret) alloy, nothing you can compare to with any other knife on the market.Well...it's not like the last 70 years passing would still allow "secrets" from a metallurgical science perspective. It probably was something quite good, in its day, for a gun barrel. But a gun barrel has completely different needs from a thin-profile edged tool. Shillean makes barrels out of 4140 steel -- arguably some of the best in the world. 4140 is a lousy blade steel.

It might make a great knife. I hope they've figured out the heat-treat properties very well, and I'd assume that it has been edge-tested extensively before they would sell it, but the liklihood that a 1940s tank barrel steel would perform as well as a 2013 knife blade alloy is pretty slim.

the count
June 23, 2013, 09:42 PM
Well...it's not like the last 70 years passing would still allow "secrets" from a metallurgical science perspective. It probably was something quite good, in its day, for a gun barrel. But a gun barrel has completely different needs from a thin-profile edged tool.

It might make a great knife. I hope they've figured out the heat-treat properties very well, and I'd assume that it has been edge-tested extensively before they would sell it, but the liklihood that a 1940s tank barrel steel would perform as well as a 2013 knife blade alloy is pretty slim.
A destruction test of this knife would indeed be very interesting. Unfortunately I can't afford to spend $400 to find out how tough this knife really is ;-)

Do you know of any other folder that has a blade hardness in the 65-67 range?

Sam1911
June 23, 2013, 09:48 PM
Not off the top of my head, but I'm not the expert on that. hso will be along shortly.

That blade hardness has several here obviously concerned. You can make many steels VERY hard. But 65-67 is pushing things to the danger zone with some of the best steels we now have. If it can sustain real use at that hardness, it is amazing stuff indeed.

But just being that hard, as a stand-alone factor, would be more of a liability than a benefit.

Sam Cade
June 23, 2013, 09:54 PM
Did the Leopard tank barrels shatter like glass?.

Some did actually.

Hmmm..


Barrels on heavy guns are made out of the same low alloy steels that rifle barrels are.

Certaindeaf
June 23, 2013, 11:32 PM
Fallkniven makes sintered steel laminated blades with the cutting edge at 62 HRC.

http://www.fallkniven.com/en/shop/details/547/28/exclusive-knives/tk2z

I hear that these are very tough due to the lamination/sandwiching of the two disparate steels.

Sheepdog1968
June 24, 2013, 12:21 AM
Getting a blade made from tank barrels is a cool story and enough of an allure for me. Honestly not too worried how,tough the blade is as most of the time it would be used to open boxes or,peel apples.

hso
June 24, 2013, 12:56 AM
Markus Balbach is a well respecte smith with great skill.

ZDP-189 hardens in that range and has been used by Spyderco, Kershaw, and Zero Tolerance for folders.

W2 also can be hardened in that range.

JShirley
June 24, 2013, 12:30 PM
Yeah, I was going to mention ZDP is pretty damn hard.

I'd sure as hell hate to drop a ZDP blade, though. Something like 3V can be harder than other steels and still surprising tough, but you're still only looking at about 60 RC.

I'm sure it's pretty, and the tank gun story is neat. But don't drop it, and don't apply any lateral force without wearing eye protection.

John

Certaindeaf
June 24, 2013, 12:49 PM
Did the Leopard tank barrels shatter like glass? Hello, this is a military (secret) alloy, nothing you can compare to with any other knife on the market.
Not that I know of. However, they were most certainly not near as hard as that Boker. I'm no knifemaker nor guru but one can affect hardness with tempering and hardening. Also, I don't speak German but watched that video.. again, I'm no guru but it seemed he may well have layered/laminated that blade.. with the barrel steel being the non-cutting edge. never know. It seems like a fine knife. I just know that if it's unlaminated and that hard, I'd sure try to not drop it.

Mp7
June 24, 2013, 12:56 PM
Let`s have a rockwell-meter put to it.





Ive handled on of the first series Balbach Leo knives
and was very impressed.

There is no way though id put it to everyday use.



Markus Balbach is THE smith in germany.
(And it`s not like Solingen aint full of them.)

the count
June 24, 2013, 01:00 PM
Markus Balbach is a well respecte smith with great skill.

ZDP-189 hardens in that range and has been used by Spyderco, Kershaw, and Zero Tolerance for folders.

W2 also can be hardened in that range.
Here some interesting information. I just got off the phone with Marcus Balbach after exchanging emails over the weekend. Good thing I speak German.

He stopped making the Leo-Damascus (R) blades for Boker in 2008 after a legal battle that Boker lost! From that point on Boker could no longer use the Balbach logo nor call the blade Leo Damascus but rather LEOPARD DAMASCUS. As to who exactly makes those 'new' blades little to nothing is known as well as the content of tank barrel steel. Called the place I ordered the knife from this morning to discuss all this and they said they had the knife in stock since 2006 so the chances of it being an actual Balbach blade are high. Buyer beware when purchasing such knives from Boker.

Certaindeaf
June 24, 2013, 01:26 PM
Did you ask him if he ever dropped one? Or if it's laminated?

the count
June 24, 2013, 02:13 PM
Well, it's damascus steel. The other steel is German ball bearing steel.

Certaindeaf
June 24, 2013, 02:44 PM
Well, it's damascus steel. The other steel is German ball bearing steel.
I understand about majik. And breaking stuff. You didn't answer the question though. Since you had him on the phone it would seem to me to ask him a cogent/germaine question would be simple.. perhaps. Well, you probably still have the phone number and or could always just drop the thing to find out your own self. good luck

CharlieDeltaJuliet
June 24, 2013, 02:57 PM
Very very cool. I love the info about he blade.. That makes it even oiler. I first saw the photo and thought it had a Louis Vuitton pattern on the blade(I kid, kind of). It is gorgeous.

Certaindeaf
June 24, 2013, 03:08 PM
I didn't mean to come across as a meanie or anything. It's just that I've seen quite a few blades break from just pedestrian treatment.

ugaarguy
June 24, 2013, 11:01 PM
Yeah, I was going to mention ZDP is pretty damn hard. I'd sure as hell hate to drop a ZDP blade, though.
I was actually surprised at how tough ZDP-189 is at 67.5 HRC after looking at the data sheet - http://www.discipleofdesign.com/knives/ZDP189_eng.pdf. Laminated within 420J2 like it is on some Spydercos, ZDP-189 becomes more and more appealing.

JHansenAK47
June 26, 2013, 03:40 PM
Blade hardness of 65-67 HRC
I don't know about all of you but when i've had knives that hard they were a PITA to sharpen.
1940s tank barrel
Leopard I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_1
Damascus blade forged out of the barrel of the German battle tank Leopard I.
http://www.boker.de/us/pocket-knife/boker/damascus-collector-knife/111054DAM.html

hso
June 26, 2013, 04:44 PM
JHansenAK47,

The material is from a WWII Leopard and not a 1965+ Leopard 1.

JHansenAK47
June 26, 2013, 05:51 PM
The material is from a WWII Leopard and not a 1965+ Leopard 1.

Leopard-I
http://www.webseite.schmiede-balbach.de/de/Kontakt/Damaststahlspezialit%C3%A4ten/225_246

The leopard 1 is being phased out as a main battle tank. So it stands to reason that the steel would be available.
The Leopard 2 MBTs have taken over the MBT role. Leopard hulls have been re-used in a wide variety of roles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2
If you have a link or other material showing that the steel used is indeed from a WW2 leopard tank please provide it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VK_1602

Sam Cade
June 26, 2013, 05:56 PM
Hmmm...

http://www.gastonglockstyle.com/knives/exclusive-knife-made-from-leopard-tank-barrel-steel.html


Damascus steel with an incredibly high degree of hardness between 63-65 HRC and high toughness


http://www.gastonglockstyle.com/knives/bowie-knife-leo-damascus-steel.html


This non-stainless barrel steel from a Leopard A3 is not available for sale and has no material number.

the count
June 26, 2013, 06:57 PM
JHansenAK47,

The material is from a WWII Leopard and not a 1965+ Leopard 1.
As far as the M. Balbach website and all advertising material is concerned it is a Leopard I barrel. I finally got the knife and it has the Marcus Balbach logo. Serial number 378. The real McCoy. There is even a more unusual blade made from the (small) remnants of the salvaged WWII German battle ship Tirpitz but I believe that is sold out completely and no more to be found.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44723422/20130626_150504%20copy.jpg

ugaarguy
June 27, 2013, 02:15 AM
Count; Tirpitz, Leopard I, and HK-G3 Damascus blade knives are still available from Gaston Glock Style (http://www.gastonglockstyle.com/knives.html) , the company started by the son of famous gun maker. :D

the count
June 27, 2013, 11:43 AM
Count; Tirpitz, Leopard I, and HK-G3 Damascus blade knives are still available from Gaston Glock Style (http://www.gastonglockstyle.com/knives.html) , the company started by the son of famous gun maker. :D
Yes, you're right. Did you see the prices......?! Ouch.

hso
June 27, 2013, 03:52 PM
My mistake on the Leopard barrel steel.

Who was it that used some barrel steel from a WWII Leopard several years ago???

jahwarrior
July 6, 2013, 07:40 PM
Sounds like an expensive gimmick to me.

If you enjoyed reading about "Just ordered a totally unique folder - the Boker Leo Damast II" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!