Why no high capacity .22LR pistols


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Hunter2011
June 24, 2013, 12:18 PM
I've read that the design of the bullet, as it is a rimfire, makes it extremely difficult to make high capacity pistol mags. But if a PMR-30 can make a 30 round pistol magazine for a .22 magnum round, why don't we see such high capacity handguns in .22LR?
I would love to own a 30-35 round double stack .22LR pistol.

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Dentite
June 24, 2013, 12:41 PM
You may find some answers here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=644540&highlight=why+no+high+capacity+22+pistols

ku4hx
June 24, 2013, 01:18 PM
I would love to own a 30-35 round double stack .22LR pistol.
Me too, but the magazine would have to shaped something like the horn of a Dahl sheep.

MCgunner
June 24, 2013, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Hunter2011

I would love to own a 30-35 round double stack .22LR pistol.

Why? I never could understand this mentality. I can reload a magazine after 10 rounds, not that big a chore. Not nearly as big a chore as reloading 30 or reloading my cap and ball revolvers.

I have an old Charter Arms Explorer II that I have a 25 round mag for. It's a straight stick mag, too. I really prefer my Rugers, though, plinking or any other use. Looks a little like a Broomhandle with the 8 round standard magazine in place.

allaroundhunter
June 24, 2013, 01:37 PM
Any rimmed cartridge does not "stack" as well as a non-rimmed one. That is the reason that they don't make double stack or even higher capacity magazines for them.

Certaindeaf
June 24, 2013, 01:38 PM
I think you'd need like 200 rounds to approach the energy of a good centerfire defensive pistol payload. I wouldn't bother with such shenanigans.

Hunter2011
June 24, 2013, 02:03 PM
I think you'd need like 200 rounds to approach the energy of a good centerfire defensive pistol payload. I wouldn't bother with such shenanigans.
Never said I want to use it for SD. Just for plinking fun. 10 shots does not last very long.

bannockburn
June 24, 2013, 02:49 PM
At the rate my kids go through a 10 round mag in their .22s, I would be out of ammo in less than a month if they had high capacity mags. For now 10 rounds is more than enough and they have plenty of extra mags to reload if need be.

MCgunner
June 24, 2013, 04:03 PM
Never said I want to use it for SD. Just for plinking fun. 10 shots does not last very long.

Patience, my son. Maybe some day you'll discover the joys of black powder shooting and reload time, nay, even clean up time, will not mean so much to you. :D

Fishbed77
June 24, 2013, 04:20 PM
But if a PMR-30 can make a 30 round pistol magazine for a .22 magnum round, why don't we see such high capacity handguns in .22LR?

The radius of a magazine holding .22 WMR cartridge can be greater (less curved) than the radius of a magazine holding a .22LR cartridge because a .22 WMR cartridge is much longer than a .22LR cartridge.

HankR
June 24, 2013, 04:22 PM
I think you'd need like 200 rounds to approach the energy of a good centerfire defensive pistol payload. I wouldn't bother with such shenanigans

Well, if I had a 200 round .22 I'd probably try something like this:

http://what-if.xkcd.com/18/

MCgunner
June 24, 2013, 04:34 PM
The radius of a magazine holding .22 WMR cartridge can be greater (less curved) than the radius of a magazine holding a .22LR cartridge because a .22 WMR cartridge is much longer than a .22LR cartridge.

A .22 mag does NOT have to be "curved". The rims stagger almost like a double column magazine, but load in a straignt magazine. For instance, the Mrk 2 mag. It's 10 rounds, but it if stuck out farther out of the grip, it could be 25 rounds. I had a 25 round straight mag for my Explorer II, not sure where it went. I think I may have sold it to my ex-SIL when he bought my AR7 from me.

mljdeckard
June 24, 2013, 04:54 PM
I have 15 rounders for my 1911 conversion, and it's a blast all day long. Not sure why anyone would NEED to have more than that, but we're all in this for our own flavor of fun. If I just HAD to have more than that, I would look at a GSG 22. (I already have an M-4 .22 upper as well.)

Fishbed77
June 24, 2013, 05:22 PM
A .22 mag does NOT have to be "curved".

Yeah - that's what I was getting at. Because of the shape of the cartridge (ratio of the length to the rim diameter), higher-capacity .22WMR magazines don't need be curved at the rate of a higher-capacity .22LR magazine.

10 rounds of .22LR is about the limit you can get in a straight mag. It's possible to have many more rounds (my Black Dog AR mags will hold 25 rounds) be the mag will have to be curved and will not fit in a pistol grip.

aarondhgraham
June 24, 2013, 05:42 PM
Up until just a few months ago,,,
10 round magazines were legal in all 50 states,,,
I thought it was so the manufacturers could make one gun for all 50 states.

I have nothing to back this up with,,,
Just something I always thought made sense.

Aarond

.

Sun Tzu warrior
June 24, 2013, 09:09 PM
Why not go with a helical fed 100 rounder like this;

http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2

9mmepiphany
June 24, 2013, 09:27 PM
You should look into a Calico M-100 pistol with it's 100 round Helical Feed Action...I think they had smaller 50 round magazines too

Sun Tzu warrior beat me to it

jrdolall
June 24, 2013, 10:11 PM
I considered one of the Calico guns but, after watching videos on Youtube, I decided I didn't want to spend 10 minutes loading a magazine that I could empty in 1 minute. I have never fired one but they do look interesting.

Onward Allusion
June 24, 2013, 10:28 PM
I had a Ram-Line Exactor that held 15 rounds. It wasn't a double stack. It was a long single stack that had a constant force spring. It was fun when it didn't jam, but I think it was because of the gun rather than the # of rounds it held.

I too wanted a 22LR pistol that held 30 rounds or more so I got a Ruger Charger and drop it into a Blackhawk Axiom pistol stock. Sure, it's not a conventional pistol, but I can blast away and cut 2x4's with it. I liked it so much that I got a MOA receiver and built another one in an Archangel stock.

Alas, that was back in the good ole days when 22LR ammo was plentiful...............

Steve C
June 25, 2013, 02:32 AM
There are plenty of hi capacity .22 handguns. Some examples are the TEC-22 by Intertec, the Galco shown above, the Umarex HK 416, the Chiappa M4-22 and others. All are military like or sub gun type models that are hi cap magazine fed.

kozak6
June 25, 2013, 07:37 AM
Yes, but every single one of them has a large curved single stack magazine, and not one of them feeds through the grip. Although those examples are legally pistols, they seem closer to cut down carbines. Except for the TEC-22.

If you feed a magazine like that through the grip, you end up with something like the USFA Zip Gun.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3889/zipwhatcando0btfb.jpg

Something resembling a PMR-30 is a very different animal indeed.

allaroundhunter
June 25, 2013, 11:41 AM
There are plenty of hi capacity .22 handguns. Some examples are the TEC-22 by Intertec, the Galco shown above, the Umarex HK 416, the Chiappa M4-22 and others. All are military like or sub gun type models that are hi cap magazine fed.

Umarex HK 416 - rifle....
Chiappa M4-22 - rifle...

mp510
June 25, 2013, 11:45 AM
10 rounds of .22LR is about the limit you can get in a straight mag. It's possible to have many more rounds (my Black Dog AR mags will hold 25 rounds) be the mag will have to be curved and will not fit in a pistol grip.

My ceiner Taurus PT-conversion does 15 rds in a straight mag without any issues whatsoever.

mljdeckard
June 25, 2013, 03:32 PM
^^Yeah. Someone forgot to tell that to my Ciener 15 rounders.

Drail
June 25, 2013, 07:25 PM
Another issue would be a magazine spring that would function over such a wide load range (full to empty). You can build a magazine any length you want but you still have to power it with some type of spring (and deal with people who insist on loading it full and leaving it that way for extended periods).

MCgunner
June 25, 2013, 08:20 PM
I had a Ram-Line Exactor that held 15 rounds. It wasn't a double stack. It was a long single stack that had a constant force spring. It was fun when it didn't jam, but I think it was because of the gun rather than the # of rounds it held.

I still have one. It wasn't ever a jammer, feeds reliably, but it would maypop anything, but CCI. Now, the hammer spring has gotten weaker and it maypops CCI. :rolleyes: But, it has 15 round straight magazines, another example of the FACT that you do not need a curved magazine in .22LR to hold multiple rounds.

MCgunner
June 25, 2013, 08:24 PM
I considered one of the Calico guns but, after watching videos on Youtube, I decided I didn't want to spend 10 minutes loading a magazine that I could empty in 1 minute. I have never fired one but they do look interesting.

:rolleyes: One minute high cap mags are all the rage because you can wast ammo at a fantastic rate and the next minute, they're too slow to reload? Sheesh, I'm glad I don't have to buy YOU all a Christmas present. :D

1SOW
June 25, 2013, 11:09 PM
I shoot with competitors that have 16rd .22lr mags in their guns. One is a Volksquartzen (SP?)
High dollar comp.-ready pistols. They run fast, smoothly and very accurately.

Hunter2011
June 27, 2013, 01:41 AM
See, it is possible. The grip of my 422 is thicker than the grip of my 9mm double stack pistol. I'm sure nobody will say no to a 20 round magazine that makes no difference to the size of the pistol. For those that don't want to spend time to load 20 rounds, you may just load it up with 10 at a time, I will make use of the full 20:D

Gun Master
November 28, 2013, 04:21 PM
Yes, but every single one of them has a large curved single stack magazine, and not one of them feeds through the grip. Although those examples are legally pistols, they seem closer to cut down carbines. Except for the TEC-22.

If you feed a magazine like that through the grip, you end up with something like the USFA Zip Gun.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3889/zipwhatcando0btfb.jpg

Something resembling a PMR-30 is a very different animal indeed.
But how well does the USFA Zip Gun .22 pistol work ?:confused:

LightningMan
November 28, 2013, 11:06 PM
I don't feel they are as high of capacity as your thinking but my M&P22 mags hold 12 rds. and I have 5 of them. FWIW I also have 5 mags for my Ruger MKIII, which if you load up all five Ruger mags it will take an entire small box of 50 rds. and the M&P will need 60 rds. So I would need an extra Ruger mag or 6 total to equal the capacity of the 5 M&P mags. With the .22 LR ammo in such short supply I don't know if I would want to burn it up any quicker than I am now, with magazines that hold a lot more. LM

Pete D.
November 29, 2013, 05:31 AM
I considered one of the Calico guns but, after watching videos on Youtube, I decided I didn't want to spend 10 minutes loading a magazine that I could empty in 1 minute. I have never fired one but they do look interesting.

Well....empty it in one minute.......maybe you do that once. Made a lot of noise, popped a lot of brass, possibly even hit the backstop. Then it's old. After that, if you want a lot of rapid fire noise, buy a mat of firecrackers.
Pete

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