Projectile costs much higher now?


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rajbcpa
June 24, 2013, 04:28 PM
I have not bought any cast or plated projectiles in six months or so, but I began shopping again today.

The prices seem much higher now. Is this a function of the supply shortage or is there some other reason?

One popular vendor I used in the past is completely out, so I am assuming the shortage, which is headed on a one year anniversary, is not easing.

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HOOfan_1
June 24, 2013, 04:43 PM
I have not bought any cast or plated projectiles in six months or so, but I began shopping again today.

The prices seem much higher now. Is this a function of the supply shortage or is there some other reason?

One popular vendor I used in the past is completely out, so I am assuming the shortage, which is headed on a one year anniversary, is not easing.

Shortage started in December...6 months, not a year.

From what I've seen Berry's prices may have gone up by about 1 cent per bullet

mstreddy
June 24, 2013, 07:11 PM
Plated has gone up, both from the mfrs and from resellers. Cast does not seem to be up very much. I just checked MBC and they are roughly around the same price I paid in summer of 2012 for 38 spcl. Maybe around $1-2 per 500.

rajbcpa
June 24, 2013, 07:23 PM
For me, the shortage started last June when I went to 4 LGS and could not buy SPP.

hAkron
June 24, 2013, 07:26 PM
December was the tipping point, but the months leading up to the election were most certainly the start.

Marlin 45 carbine
June 24, 2013, 09:50 PM
yes the makers of 'premium' jhp 9mm 124 gr slugs are really gougeing IMO

Constrictor
June 25, 2013, 08:40 AM
the fed has been printing 85 billion per month, of course everything is going up for that reason alone.

HOOfan_1
June 25, 2013, 09:51 AM
everything is going up for that reason alone.

except salaries

45lcshooter
June 25, 2013, 02:04 PM
^^^^^^^ you bet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rajbcpa
June 25, 2013, 03:52 PM
Here in NY, the shortage started about one year ago.

Jim Watson
June 25, 2013, 03:58 PM
One source concluded that the shortage really started four or five years ago, early in First Obama. That the manufacturers had really not completely caught up in time for Second Obama and Sandy Hook panics.

I think that some months of shortage and scalpers have gotten people used to paying higher prices and that, in combination with general inflation, will lead to higher post Panic prices, even if lower than the peak.

mgmorden
June 25, 2013, 04:33 PM
I've noticed small increases but nothing major. Mostly a drop in availability.

Personally though I've never much cared for plated. If I want to shoot cheap I'll buy cast. If I want better bullets the price of plated is just a hair under jacketed. Never found them a good value.

homatok
June 26, 2013, 11:47 AM
One of the reasons for increased pricing is the increase to the manufacturers in the price of the raw material world wide. In addition to this there is also (in my opinion) a distinct element of greed along with the much revered/maligned (depending on who's Ox is getting gored) element known as Free Market (Capitalism)! When the panic subsides, demand will drop and so will prices BUT never to the pre-panic level.

Maj Dad
June 26, 2013, 03:26 PM
Just found 45acp FMJs at Natchez Shooting Supplies for ~$23.49/100. There is a 5 unit limit, so that's what I ordered. With $20 shipping it's ~$138; hated to pay that much, but really happy to find them. The last 45s I ordered were about 5 years ago, so I really don't feel too badly for "hoarding", and since I will shoot these up within 6 mos to a year (new Rem 1911-R1 :cool:) I think it's time to get out the moulds & start casting... :scrutiny:

bds
June 26, 2013, 03:42 PM
TJ Conevera and Powder Valley have been offering reasonably priced plated pistol bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8992247#post8992247

Rocky Mountain Reloading and some other vendors have also been offering reasonably priced pistol and rifle bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8986436#post8986436

+1 on MBC cast bullets. Powder Valley and Graf & Sons also sells MBC bullets at reasonable prices.

Potatohead
June 26, 2013, 04:48 PM
what are the differences between plated and, cast? God, all this crap is confusing. full metal jacket, jhp, cast , plated, copper , lead, and i just saw "complete" metal jacket i think...? Can anyone give me a brief summary/ description of this terminology, types of projectiles/cartridges? Hope u all dont light me up for not researching myself-i have somewhat...

Sorry for the temporary hijack but i didnt think it merits its own thread since everyone here probably knows alreaady

bds
June 26, 2013, 05:23 PM
God, all this crap is confusing.
Potatohead, I will give it a try. Here goes.

In the begining, God created lead and there were lead/cast bullets naked without any covering and shooters were not ashamed of their naked bullets.

Then copper gas checks were used on the base of lead/cast bullets to reduce leading issues on higher velocity bullets/loads. Then the gas checks evolved and grew in length and became jacketed hollow points (JHP).

When the shooters saw that full-length gas check bullets were good, they made Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) bullets with exposed lead base but some people who were concerned with lead made a disk to cover up the lead base to make Complete Metal Jacket (CMJ) bullets.

Then people started applying copper plating to lead/cast bullets to look like more expensive copper jacketed/full-length gas checked bullets but shooters found the cheaper plated bullets did not have the same level of accuracy and could not be pushed too hard due to thin copper plating. They also suffered from bullets being out of round so they increased the thickness of plating (TP) and double struck the bullets (DS) to improve consistency.

Then one day ATK/Speer trademarked the term TMJ to describe their thicker copper plated bullets as Total Metal Jacket and everyone else had to use other more confusing terms to describe their copper plated bullets.

To improve accuracy of plated bullets, when Berry's Manufacturing added hollow bases to their plated bullets (HB) to help with bullet base expansion and better stabilize the bullets with longer bearing surfaces, all the shooters in the land saw that they were good.

So now you know what a Berry's HBRN-TP DS bullet is.

Now, there are traditionalists who want to return to the practice of shooting lead/cast bullets and refer to their hand cast bullets with an endearing term of "boolits" and often hang out at castboolits forum - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?8-Cast-Boolits

This is my story and I am sticking to it. :D

Potatohead
June 26, 2013, 05:51 PM
thx man!!

Potatohead
June 26, 2013, 05:54 PM
one more off topic-so all bullets have lead..am i right? and gosh i know that must be a dumb question to you guys..ok, back on thread topic. thx

bds
June 26, 2013, 06:04 PM
There are lead-free bullets made from solid copper, brass, other metals and materials and even compressed clay that are frangible.

Then you also have Moly / polymer coated lead bullets.

Yes, it sure can be confusing.

HOOfan_1
June 26, 2013, 06:43 PM
The lead in all lead bullets is a lot harder too....I am not sure if plated bullets use hard lead, or soft lead like jacketed bullets.

Don't forget Berry's restrikes their plated bullets after plating too in order to make sure they are uniform

rajbcpa
June 27, 2013, 11:11 AM
Is someone hijacking my thread?

I use platted projectiles because they are successful in limiting barrel leading. Currently, these are fairly hard to find and the prices have seemed to go up.

Commodity prices including cooper are at multi-year lows, so it is doubtful higher bullet prices are caused by commodity price changes.

Katitmail
June 27, 2013, 11:19 AM
From what it looks we have new businesses started, old businesses expanded to meet demand. I'm sure we will see discounted sales soon.

Potatohead
June 27, 2013, 11:53 AM
my bad rajbpca. thx for the info though guys. sorry for the temporary hijack

rajbcpa
June 27, 2013, 12:29 PM
Cooper platted bullets are fairly common in use. As I see it, they reduce leading, and there is little or no lead exposure when reloading them. Consequently, I like them.

Lead cast have lubed gas checks and these are often difficult to deal with and they sometimes clog dies...

HOWARD J
June 27, 2013, 12:33 PM
My biggest cost increase is shipping.
I used to buy all my bullets in a gun shop---today they don't have any & I have to buy on the web---Frt is expensive.
Yesterday a 16 oz. bottle of hopes & 3 ----1/2 oz tubes of oil---cost of shipping $15.00--OUCHHHHHH

bds
June 27, 2013, 01:17 PM
Many bullet vendors offer free shipping like Rocky Mountain Reloading (on all orders), TJ Conevera (over $50 orders), Berry's MFG (over $75 orders), Widener's (on some bullet packages) and other vendors offer discounted shipping like Graf & Sons with free shipping + $6.95 processing on any order.

BullfrogKen
June 27, 2013, 08:14 PM
Prepare to be unhappy . . . I was waxing nostalgic here myself . . .

I have been buying from MidwayUSA since they had the newspaper monthly catalogue, free shipping, and you could send in a check with your order on the last day of the month and - so long as the envelope was postmarked with that last day - they'd honor your order at that month's sale price.

Who uses checks anymore, right?


Anyway, Midway has the order history for my account available for me to pull on -line going back for quite some time, back to 2000. So, just for giggles I looked up my order history for you. It'll make you sick.


Back in Nov of 2010 I ordered these at $85.49 per 1k. They're $102.99 now.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1050526034/rainier-leadsafe-bullets-9mm-355-diameter-124-grain-plated-hollow-point

In Aug of 2004 I ordered these at $24.83 / 500. They are now $67.99 per 500.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/387136/winchester-bullets-9mm-355-diameter-124-grain-full-metal-jacket-flat-base-box-of-500-5-bags-of-100

I ordered Winchester 38 Super brass with that order at $9.86 / 100 as well. Look at it now . . . $20.99 / 100
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/499400/winchester-reloading-brass-38-super-p-bag-of-100

Mar 2005 I bought these at 46.99 / 1k. Now they're $129.99 per thousand.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/634537/winchester-bullets-9mm-355-diameter-124-grain-full-metal-jacket-flat-base-box-of-1000-10-bags-of-100

June of 2001 I got 1k 30 caliber gas checks for $14.29. Now they're $31.99 / thousand! :what:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/253287/hornady-gas-checks-30-caliber-box-of-1000

Lest you think it's all inflation, I bought a lb of casting flux at the same time for $9.29, I can get it today for $9.99.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/593033/frankford-arsenal-cleancast-lead-fluxing-compound-1-lb


It all brought me back to when I could buy - at my local gun shop - Winchester 9mm pistol bullets in 100ct factory- sealed bags at $5.00 each. And sometimes I did, just because. Those were the days of $14.00/lb powder, primers for $1.79/100ct tray or the full 1k box for $13.99.

Those days are gone forever. The FFL I started buying my reloading components from doesn't even stock components anymore. He hasn't for 5-6 years now. And selling components at shows was his gun business back then. Selling guns was almost a side business compared to his reloading supply side of the shop.


Now I'm feeling kinda depressed.

Peter M. Eick
June 27, 2013, 08:38 PM
A lot of that has to do with commodities prices. In the wall street today they talked about copper prices tanking as demand drops off and the hoarding that was occurring by the middleman is now turning to dumping. The same is true of lead for batteries and such.

No the prices will never go back to the levels you (and I) remember well. I feel mostly because the fed and their quantitative easing and the stimulus. Look at the price of gold or oil as a benchmark of the buying power of the us dollar. I used to be happy when oil was at $20 a barrel and gold was in the $400 range. Now I get concerned when oil is less than $80 a barrel and now gold is dropping back to $1300 or so. Basically one can argue that the fundamental buying power of the dollar is one fourth what it was during the say the late 80's. So, what used to be a gripe about $8 a pound for powder is about the same gripe I have at $32 a pound for today.

We really are quite blessed to have $20 a pound powder today. That is roughly equal to $5 a pound powder in the 80's.

I am fortunate to say that due to my performance at work and working for an energy company, my salary has gone up by more than a factor of 4 and even with paying all of the massive taxes I still am doing better than I did when I hired on. Not a lot, but good enough to not whine too much about the prices we pay.

But, I am also fortunate enough to read the writing on the wall and stock pile when the time is right. :)

HOWARD J
June 27, 2013, 09:56 PM
When I started reloading I was buying IMI 9MM FMJ bullets for 3 cents each--I cost me about 5 cents max to reload a 9 MM cartridge.
Chinese 7.62 X 39 for 7-8 cents each.
I will not go on>>>>>>>>>>>>>

rajbcpa
June 28, 2013, 06:03 AM
The price of lead has DECREASED 8% and 7% in March and April of 2013, respectively! Cooper prices are also down significantly.

LEAD Prices:
Month Price Change
Nov 2012 2,181.97 -
Dec 2012 2,279.80 4.48 %
Jan 2013 2,334.47 2.40 %
Feb 2013 2,365.79 1.34 %
Mar 2013 2,173.35 -8.13 %
Apr 2013 2,024.37 -6.85 %
May 2013 2,031.89 0.37 %

Peter M. Eick
June 29, 2013, 03:06 PM
Agreed it has come down over the short time but go long.

I went to a mining school and I remember copper was 69 cents a pound when I graduated. Now it is $3.04 a pound. So the price of copper has gone up about 6 times in about 25 years.

Again, if you assume that copper is a base metal that can be used as a global measure of value (some what stretched over say sliver, oil or gold but close). If you compare the buying power of a dollar then to today then you can see that the prices have gone up by a factor of 4 to 6 depending on your measure of the dollar.

So when I think of buying $10/100 168 HPBT Sierra's like I used to, then the $30/100 price of today does not look so bad.

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