.30-06 Milsurp not reloadable?


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billj888
June 24, 2013, 08:20 PM
Lugged so much brass home from the range I thought my days of buying empties was over -until the depriming started. When full length resizing my depriming pin kept being pushed up through the pinch nut that couldn't hold it no matter how hard it was tightened. When I ran a few once-fired Win cases the primer popped right out. Didn't take long to figure out the Milsurp ones were crimped in. The few that I got out would not take a new primer even after scraping hard with a primer pocket tool. Just crushed a few primers. Does anyone take the time to get these primers out with a stronger tool then touch the right size drill to the hole to accept a primer? Too much work. My shells went out with the trash.

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Certaindeaf
June 24, 2013, 08:23 PM
Sounds normal.

rcmodel
June 24, 2013, 08:27 PM
But well worth the effort if you have enough to fool with.

A standard RCBS FL sizing die will take crimped primers out.

So will your Lee die if you use two wrenches to tighten the collet with.

Reaming or swaging primer pockets ain't no big thing either.

I did it in 1962 when I started with a sharp Case pocket knife blade until I could afford something better.

rc

KansasSasquatch
June 24, 2013, 08:45 PM
Get a Lee Universal Decapping Die and tighten that bad boy down. Decap all of your brass.

Then get a chamfer bit, I use one from a Lyman 6-in-1 hand tool. Wrap the threads in tape and chuck it in a power drill. Run the drill about 1/3 speed and hit each primer pocket just enough enough to take off the crimp. Or pony up the cash for a Dillon or RCBS swaging tool.

It sounds like you probably tossed out a bunch of perfectly good brass. I hope you put it in a recycle bucket and not in your household trash....brass is worth money.

USSR
June 24, 2013, 08:47 PM
Having the proper tools makes ALL the difference in the world, no matter what the job is. A Universal Decapping Die is a handy tool to have. I use mine all the time, and have removed the decapping pins from all my rifle sizing dies. A swaging die or better yet, the Dillon Super Swage 600 makes short work of crimped primer pockets.

Don

50 Shooter
June 24, 2013, 08:52 PM
Go get them out of the trash if you still can, someone will buy them.

morcey2
June 24, 2013, 08:53 PM
I use lee dies for my 30-06 reloading and the vast majority of my 30-06 brass is from CMP ammo (hxp et al) that I've fired. It's definitely more effort to deprime, but the brass is great. Crank down the lock nut at the top and it won't slip. If they're still in the trash, pull them back out. Many people will pay you for them.

Matt

Reloadron
June 24, 2013, 08:55 PM
The fact the primers were crimped tells me it was once fired 30-06 brass, something I go out of my way to find.

I agree with RC in that I have never had problems decapping the stuff using RCBS or Lee full length sizing dies. Size them, prime them and load them.

I also maintain a stash of pins for my dies so if one does break I just replace it and continue to march.

45lcshooter
June 24, 2013, 09:36 PM
Just need to apply a little more pressure with a crimped primer. I have Lee, RCBS, Redding sizing dies for calibers that would have a crimp, and decapped 1000's of rounds and not one pin broke. I haven't got on the Lee Collet die band wagon, those have a solid rod that goes through. Im still old school with my dies.

As far as crimp goes, some people take their chamfer tool and chamfer the primer pocket a little and it loosens the crimp to fall out.

But 98% of the crimped pockets i have dealt with, i don't need to take the crimp out to re-prime, i just spin the case in my Lee Auto Prime, and it primes it. Both 223 and 9mm. Im just getting back into 30-06, because i need to feed a Garand.

rondog
June 24, 2013, 09:39 PM
You only have to remove that crimp one time, they're fine after that. Hornady sells a cutter to remove those military crimps on both large and small primered cases. Put it in a drill and it works awesome, I've done thousands of them.

rcmodel
June 24, 2013, 09:45 PM
But 98% of the crimped pockets i have dealt with, i don't need to take the crimp out to re-prime,Then you haven't dealt with the ones I have dealt with over the last 45 years.

All the problems I ever had with AR-15's were caused by smashing primers in, kicking & screaming, in crimped GI brass that I had failed to completely remove the crimps from.

If you aren't smashing primers in now, you will be sooner or later.

Ream or swage them before you run into problems with crushed & flattened primers you don't want to have!

rc

cag215
June 24, 2013, 10:03 PM
read this before you buy

http://squibloads.wordpress.com/reloading/get-the-crimp-out/

50 Shooter
June 24, 2013, 10:49 PM
Personally I like to ream and as with swaging you need to pay attention, both will ruin brass if you don't. Comes down to personal choice and what your comfortable with, if you read the article that's basically what the guy says.

oneounceload
June 24, 2013, 11:09 PM
My shells went out with the trash.

Guess you do not know the price of scrap brass then..........let alone that someone would have bought those from you. RCBS makes a tool for taking the crimp out as do others

medalguy
June 25, 2013, 01:51 AM
I much prefer military cases over commercial. The milsurp brass is stronger and seems to last for more reloads than commercial. As stated, remove the crimp once and it's good forever, never have to touch it again. I prefer to swage the pockets, because if you cut too much away with a reamer, the brass is no good. Swaging doesn't remove any brass, just pushes it back where it was before being crimped.

Havok7416
June 25, 2013, 02:28 AM
Guess you do not know the price of scrap brass then..........let alone that someone would have bought those from you. RCBS makes a tool for taking the crimp out as do others
Hornady also makes a hand reamer for what that's worth. I have one and it works just fine.

ArchAngelCD
June 25, 2013, 02:29 AM
A #2 Philips screwdriver will also remove the crimp in military brass.

Radar3006
June 25, 2013, 06:59 AM
Did you check to see if it was Berdan primed ? I bought some 30-06 milsurp a few years ago that came in 8 round en-bloc Garand clips but I don't remember what country it was from....

bogon48
June 25, 2013, 08:20 AM
I've used hand tools to ream, but like some of the guys above, I now prefer the RCBS swager that I use with an old Lee single-stage press. The article referenced above is by cag215 is pretty thorough. Here's what it looks like:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2

plodder
June 25, 2013, 03:15 PM
+1 on the Lee universal decapper for removing crimped primers from both 5.56 and 30.06 MilSurp. I have reloaded a boatload (well, maybe a dingy) of both. Occasionally it will bend or break the decapping pin but I have learned to keep a handful of extras on standby for just such an occasion. I also picked up the crimped primer pocket cutting tool for my RCBS case prep station. A quick pass over that wonderful tool yields a very receptive primer pocket and with the HXP brass, some very pretty and durable cases that will survive several reloading cycles.

I have learned to truly hate the occasional berdan primed brass that infiltrates my range finds, particularly the 5.56!:cuss:

ranger335v
June 25, 2013, 03:35 PM
Tossed it? :mad: Goodness, how I love .30-06 GI stuff.

Jim Watson
June 25, 2013, 03:51 PM
Yup.
Rocky Gibbs recommended USGI brass for his extreme wildcats.
He even had preferred makers and years, maybe even lot numbers that he knew to be strong enough to be blown out and then rather overloaded. I recall NM brass was on his good list, and that without crimped primers.

He wasn't a total wacko on loads, he said the maximum load was the most that could be reloaded 10 times in his recommended brass without loosening the primer pockets.

JohnM
June 25, 2013, 04:07 PM
Thrown away because of crimped primers!
What a waste :(

longdayjake
June 25, 2013, 04:32 PM
Seriously, why don't people ask questions BEFORE they go and do stuff like this. Seriously, half of the hour long complaints and problems I hear from new reloaders could have been solved with a five minute conversation.

Safetychain
June 25, 2013, 09:30 PM
I've had the pins move and I've broken pins but in every case it was the Berdan that was the cause. I just case prepped 1000 .223 brass and 90% were crimped but everyone deprimed without any problem except for a little more oomf on the handle.

BullfrogKen
June 25, 2013, 10:16 PM
Oh my, threw it out with the trash?


What a shame.

rondog
June 25, 2013, 11:12 PM
This is a Hornady primer pocket cutter, it's made especially for cutting that crimp out, comes in large and small. Put it in a drill and it works superbly.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/ammo%20and%20reloading/Hornadycutter.jpg

This is a Ray-o-vac pocket flashlight, get 'em at WalMart for $2.98 in the sporting goods dept. Best pocket light ever for looking inside empty cases for Berdan primers, rocks, or other crud. Also outstanding for inspecting guns, bores, etc., and a million other uses. I use mine multiple times a day.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/tools/RayovacBrilliantSolutionspenlight.jpg

guntha45
June 26, 2013, 12:06 AM
Yes, crimped primers can come out hard but your post suggests to me that you got a bunch of berdan primed cases. These can be good for making up "dummy rounds" or seating different bullets to your favorite over all length to save time in changing the adjustment of your dies but NEVER throw away brass! Save it, you would be surprised how much it's worth at the scrap yard!

blarby
June 26, 2013, 12:21 AM
A #2 Philips screwdriver will also remove the crimp in military brass.

Ya beat me to it.......

Guess what the Hornady tool is !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Coloradoglocker/100_1975.jpg

Dont that look familiar........

Will never convince me to buy a $20+ #2 phil....... With a crappy short handle, no less !

ArchAngelCD
June 26, 2013, 01:10 AM
Ya beat me to it.......

Guess what the Hornady tool is !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Coloradoglocker/100_1975.jpg

Dont that look familiar........

Will never convince me to buy a $20+ #2 phil....... With a crappy short handle, no less !
Hey, Great minds think alike! lol
I was thinking how similar the Hornady tool looked to a #2 Philips bit when I saw the picture.

rondog
June 26, 2013, 02:17 AM
Uh, no. The Hornady tool is a cutter, nothing like a Phillips screwdriver bit. It actually cuts the brass, not just push it out of the way. It's more like an endmill, drill bit, or router bit, but it's not carbide.

I'm cheap, but I'd never use a screwdriver bit in place of a proper cutting tool.

ArchAngelCD
June 26, 2013, 02:25 AM
Uh, no. The Hornady tool is a cutter, nothing like a Phillips screwdriver bit. It actually cuts the brass, not just push it out of the way. It's more like an endmill, drill bit, or router bit, but it's not carbide.

I'm cheap, but I'd never use a screwdriver bit in place of a proper cutting tool.
Oh come on, we all know there is a difference between a cutter and a screwdriver. :rolleyes:

Also, stop looking down your nose at a suggestion to use a screwdriver in the meantime before you buy a "proper" cutter. If someone's stuck it does work and does so fairly well... I'm guessing you don't think swagging tools are "proper" either?

rondog
June 26, 2013, 02:46 AM
Never used a swaging tool, but those are made for that purpose, screwdrivers aren't. I'd think the angles on a Phillips bit would be too shallow too. But yeah, it'd probably work in a pinch I guess. I know people use countersinks also, the angles on those would be better. Guess I was a machinist for too many years, and cutting metal is just in my blood.

billj888
June 26, 2013, 09:14 AM
I went out to the curb and retrieved my troublesome Milsurp brass just ahead of the recycle truck. Thanks for all the encouragement on this thread. By this PM I should have snapped all my extra decapping pins and stripped the threads on the collet nut. Then I will proceed to size the primer hole with a #2 Phillips, a sharp knife and a pocket reamer. Hope it's worth it. Still have some unfired Milsurp with '42 and '43 head stamps. They're the worst.

morcey2
June 26, 2013, 11:46 AM
I went out to the curb and retrieved my troublesome Milsurp brass just ahead of the recycle truck. Thanks for all the encouragement on this thread. By this PM I should have snapped all my extra decapping pins and stripped the threads on the collet nut. Then I will proceed to size the primer hole with a #2 Phillips, a sharp knife and a pocket reamer. Hope it's worth it. Still have some unfired Milsurp with '42 and '43 head stamps. They're the worst.


A wee bit bitter today? You've got what many consider to be excellent brass and you're using the exact same tool for decapping that I (among many others) use quite successfully and you're pissed that someone said "Hey, don't toss that. It's still useful" ?

Wow

KansasSasquatch
June 26, 2013, 11:51 AM
I went out to the curb and retrieved my troublesome Milsurp brass just ahead of the recycle truck. Thanks for all the encouragement on this thread. By this PM I should have snapped all my extra decapping pins and stripped the threads on the collet nut. Then I will proceed to size the primer hole with a #2 Phillips, a sharp knife and a pocket reamer. Hope it's worth it. Still have some unfired Milsurp with '42 and '43 head stamps. They're the worst.
You can do that if you want.

OR you could spend $15 on a Lee universal decapping die. Set it using a piece of non-crimped primer pocket .30-06 brass, then tighten the collet nut down. It will punch those primers right out without much risk of breaking or damaging anything.

I've personally had a few pieces of berdan primed 7.62x54R brass mixed in with my good PRVI boxer primed brass. The Lee universal decapper was strong enough to punch through the berdan anvil and knock the primer out, creating a 3rd hole in the primer pocket. If you can manage to damage a Lee universal decapper then there is something seriously wrong with your process. You can use the #2 bit until you can get a proper pocket reamer or swager.

OR you could just sell the brass. There's plenty of people that actually prefer once fired military brass with the spent primers in place because the primer crimp is near 100% proof that it is indeed once fired. Chances are you won't make enough money from it to replace it all with new commercial brass, but you can make enough to get some commercial brass. Seeing as you were just going to throw the mil-surp brass out anyways, any brass you can buy with the money is a bonus. But if you just scrap it chances are it's just going to get shipped to China anyways...... just ask any recycler that won't accept spent casings. Those recyclers normally don't accept them because they can't ship them intact and it's not worth their trouble to melt it down. The recyclers that will accept casings have the ability to melt it down or they sell it here in the US without melting it.

JohnM
June 26, 2013, 12:01 PM
Probably depends if the guy is going to have a big supply of that old military '06 brass to process.
A universal depriming die and a primer pocket swagger would be worthwhile then.
A good supply of that old brass, especially as freebies, would be nice to have.

1KPerDay
June 26, 2013, 02:07 PM
A #2 Philips screwdriver will also remove the crimp in military brass.
That's what I do. I've had no trouble depriming full ring-crimped .30-06 military brass from every US manufacturer. Standard Lee sizing die, RCBS heavy duty decapping die, Lyman universal decapping die. All work for me.

blarby
June 26, 2013, 04:40 PM
That's what I do. I've had no trouble depriming full ring-crimped .30-06 military brass from every US manufacturer. Standard Lee sizing die, RCBS heavy duty decapping die, Lyman universal decapping die. All work for me.

Ditto..... More on .308 than .30-06, but the primer ain't different.....

Uh, no. The Hornady tool is a cutter

Ya. That blunt square edge looks NOTHING like my screwdriver. Lol...

50 Shooter
June 26, 2013, 08:48 PM
Yeah, if you don't want the brass PM me and we can work out a deal while we're working out a deal on that troublesome surplus ammo. My 1903 likes to shoot it and my reloading tools like to recondition it to reload and use again.

Seriously, I'll take it if you don't want it PM me.

shinz
June 26, 2013, 11:58 PM
I've had considerable success taking off the remains of primer crimps, both annular & stab with a case neck chamfer tool like this.https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/9086/10h/origin-d4.scene7.com/is/image/GanderMountainOvertons/424775_L1?$product$
+1 on the recommendation for a Lee decapping die, so much more convenient to decap, then clean, then full length or neck size with getting all that crud in your sizing dies & definitely the goods for crimped in ex mil primers. I've also used them to carefully push out primers when dismantling loads. Easier to be more controllable than with a sizing dies decap & I've never had one pop on me, even so I always where rigger gloves & safety specs.
Steve.

Certaindeaf
June 27, 2013, 12:05 AM
Well at least you redeemed yourself and went out grubbing in that trash bin.
If you have any troubles with that brass, most of us here have been there and might be able to help you.
I just trim/cut mine with a small sharp knife.

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