buffalo bore 380+p


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jimbo555
June 25, 2013, 10:34 AM
Anybody have a link to a gel test of the 380+p jhp? Do the reach the magic 12 inches and expand?

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MICHAEL T
June 25, 2013, 04:49 PM
Go look on u tube you likely find one. . I think 99.5% of people shot couple times with a 380 COM .Will if able try to leave area right then or will be on the ground .

I have ask many times, on several internet gun boards to show me a reliable report. Of a person who shot BG 2 times COM with a 380. Then BG went on to kill or seriously injure the person using the pistol for self defense . Been on these boards since 2003 and still not found one . Iam not talking about my 2 nd uncle on mothers side type stories. I want reliable accounts from police reports ,news papers ect
380 been around over 100 yrs should be able to find 1 or 2 .


Just remember every hand gun caliber has had a failure or 2 in its history

huntsman
June 25, 2013, 05:03 PM
I don't know a link off hand but BB .380acp hardcast IS the only magic bullet I don't regret spending money on.

mljdeckard
June 25, 2013, 05:37 PM
My problem with .380s is not necessarily that they are underpowered. They are probably borderline. My problem is that they are tiny and difficult to aim and shoot well. People who carry them because they are intimidated by bigger guns, or because they don't want to carry something bigger because they are inconvenient, but don't TRULY have the skill and practice to shoot them well aren't doing themselves any favors.

jimbo555
June 25, 2013, 06:42 PM
The 380 I'm carrying is a beretta 84b,very accurate and for me easy to carry.The big plus is the 14 round capacity. I'm searching for the best round out of a almost 4 inch barrel.

Peter M. Eick
June 25, 2013, 09:25 PM
Nice choice. I carry an 84F occasionally. Like you I like the 14 rounds but still small enough to conceal easily.

huntsman
June 25, 2013, 10:14 PM
The 380 I'm carrying is a beretta 84b,very accurate and for me easy to carry.The big plus is the 14 round capacity. I'm searching for the best round out of a almost 4 inch barrel.
The BB hardcast is my carry ammo for my BDA, I use Remington Express (FMJ) in my LCP

btg3
June 25, 2013, 10:32 PM
jimbo, there's some good reading on .380 ammo at the buffalo bore website...

We've also chosen a flat nosed solid bullet. The flat on the nose ensures that the bullet will cut/smash its way through flesh and bone and do much more destruction than typical round nose FMJ bullets. Round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing little damage as opposed to a flat nosed bullet. The flat nose not only wounds much more than a round nosed bullet, but it actually keeps the penetration straight and thus deeper

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=216

I don't carry .380, but flat-nosed FMJ would be my choice in a pocket gun of that caliber.

jimbo555
June 25, 2013, 11:40 PM
Thanks everyone.The knock on the 380 has always been you can have penetration or expansion,not both. Does the buffalo bore jhp+p change anything?

Shawn Dodson
June 26, 2013, 12:01 AM
I don't understand the fascination with Buffalo Bore .380, especially the +P flat nose hardcast load.

You're paying over $1.00 per cartridge for 20 rounds of Buffalo Bore. Whereas 50 rounds of Winchester Q4206 flat nose FMJ costs less than $20. There's no difference in wounding effectiveness between the two.

As for the .380 +P Buffalo Bore load, all you're getting from the +P is increased recoil and no increase in wounding effectiveness over Q4206.

MedWheeler
June 26, 2013, 07:26 AM
I've carried Remington-UMC FNEB (95-grain) ammo in .380ACP pistols with no worries whatsoever. The round is essentially a semi-jacketed projectile with an exposed lead flat tip. I carried them in a Bersa Thunder and (though it's almost never been actually carried), a Grendel P10.

In my Kel-Tec P32, which is only carried on my way to and from my (no-carry) job site, I keep two rounds of WWB flat-tipped FMJ as "first up", followed by Fiocchi RN-FMJ rounds (the latter to avoid rimlock, which is not a concern with the .380 round.)

jimbo555
June 26, 2013, 09:06 AM
The round I'm talking about is the 90gr.jhp which according to buffalobore is moving at over 1200fps out of a 3and3/4 inch barrel. I can't find a gel test of this round .Just curious about how it expands and penetrates.I carry the Winchester flat tip now.

CougarRed
June 26, 2013, 09:15 AM
I don't understand the fascination with Buffalo Bore .380, especially the +P flat nose hardcast load.

You're paying over $1.00 per cartridge for 20 rounds of Buffalo Bore. Whereas 50 rounds of Winchester Q4206 flat nose FMJ costs less than $20. There's no difference in wounding effectiveness between the two.

As for the .380 +P Buffalo Bore load, all you're getting from the +P is increased recoil and no increase in wounding effectiveness over Q4206.

The meplat on the Buffalo Bore FN is actually a little smaller than Q4206.

The main advantage of the BB round is low flash powder.

CougarRed
June 26, 2013, 09:31 AM
The round I'm talking about is the 90gr.jhp which according to buffalobore is moving at over 1200fps out of a 3and3/4 inch barrel. I can't find a gel test of this round .Just curious about how it expands and penetrates.I carry the Winchester flat tip now.

There's a denim water jug test video on this round. BB uses a Sierra HP for this round. Sierra is known for rapid and maximum expansion. Unfortunately, maximum expansion in 380 usually results in insufficient penetration, even in +p.

I use XTP bullets. They don't expand much (to 0.45"), but they penetrate 12". Federal HydraShok is another round that penetrates well while expanding some.

481
June 27, 2013, 01:10 AM
According the the BB website ( https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127 ) :

You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load.

Looks like it'll do better than 12".

jimbo555
June 27, 2013, 08:13 AM
Buffalobore doesn't make that 20 inches of penetration claim for the jhp.

hardluk1
June 27, 2013, 01:38 PM
NCFLYFISHER has a few 380 water jug videos at you tube for what that shows.

CougarRed
June 27, 2013, 04:07 PM
The BB website says expect 20+ inches penetration with both standard pressure 380 FN and +p 380 FN.

I've seen tests where the BB +p 380 FN penetrates over 30"!

If standard pressure delivers 20" of penetration, there is absolutely zero need for +p, which is terribly hard on a mousegun and increases the risk of bystander injury.

481
June 27, 2013, 04:41 PM
Buffalobore doesn't make that 20 inches of penetration claim for the jhp.
I never said that it did. The link provided is for the HCFN, not the JHP.

Wishoot
June 27, 2013, 05:48 PM
I'm sticking with BB 100gr Hardcast in my LCP for now.

golden
June 27, 2013, 08:48 PM
MLJ,

I disagree with your assessment. I carry a SIG 232 and I can shoot the same qualification course with it that I do with my issue H&K P2000 and get an even higher score. The real difference is that I can carry the SIG 232 in my pocket. I would not try that with the H&K!

On the subject of the micro guns, I agree that they do not enhance the shooting ability of just about anyone, but I would rather defend myself with a little .32ACP NORTH AMERICAN ARMS Guardian than a pocket knife and I hate shooting the NAA.

How well you shoot is a matter of personal ability, then your training and your experience. I have worked with firearms instructors in my agency who had never fired a gun before joining and do not like guns, but they have a natural ability.
Others I have seen were veterans or law enforcement who needed a shotgun to really be sure of hitting a target.

JIMBO,

I would worry less about penetration and more about recoil. I could shoot the +P .380ACP round in my BERETTA 84 or SIG 230 or 232 without any problems, but in a lighter, smaller gun, the increased recoil may reduce control and thus ability to hit the target when you need to.

I would put feed reliability first, then a hollow point and finally decide by accuracy and cost. I have used REMINGTON 88 grain jhp in most of my .380ACP, sometmes with a HYDRA SHOK round loaded in the chamber.
With the exception of the BERETTA, I have not found any pistol to be 100% with the .380ACP HYDRA SHOK, not even the very reliable SIG 232.
The REMINGTON is cheap enough to use as practice ammo when bought in 100 round boxes and feeds in everything I have tried it in including a BROWNING 1910 and SIG 230 chambered for the longer 9x18 POLICE/ULTRA round.

Jim

willypete
June 28, 2013, 06:26 AM
I don't understand the fascination with Buffalo Bore .380, especially the +P flat nose hardcast load.

You're paying over $1.00 per cartridge for 20 rounds of Buffalo Bore. Whereas 50 rounds of Winchester Q4206 flat nose FMJ costs less than $20. There's no difference in wounding effectiveness between the two.

As for the .380 +P Buffalo Bore load, all you're getting from the +P is increased recoil and no increase in wounding effectiveness over Q4206.

I'm in the same boat as you. Why pay more for something that does the same job, but with more recoil, noise and expense? I haven't noticed too much of a flash problem with WWB .380, either.

.380 is snappy enough as is out of a P3AT. Why would I want to make it any harsher? If you've got a heavier gun like a BDA or somesuch, I might understand the +p load, but then why not carry a compact 9x19 anyway?

JohnBT
June 28, 2013, 07:50 AM
"You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load."

That's amazing, there isn't one bone in the human body large enough or thick enough to stop or even deflect one of these bullets.

JohnKSa
July 1, 2013, 12:34 AM
...or even deflect...I think that's a little optimistic. ;)

Snowdog
July 1, 2013, 02:56 AM
tnoutdoors9 FMJ & FMJ-FP penetration in ballistic media (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkscBbMGp5k)

The above link demonstrates that typical FMJ ammunition from a .380acp doesn't inherently suffer from inadequate penetration.

I prefer the RA380T for defense. However, if I had to use something non-expanding for defense, I would opt for a standard weight FMJ over anything cast or swaged for this cartridge. If I could have those FMJ loaded hot, even better.

DonnyBrook13
July 1, 2013, 08:32 PM
My problem with .380s is not necessarily that they are underpowered. They are probably borderline. My problem is that they are tiny and difficult to aim and shoot well. People who carry them because they are intimidated by bigger guns, or because they don't want to carry something bigger because they are inconvenient, but don't TRULY have the skill and practice to shoot them well aren't doing themselves any favors.
That's why I opted for the Bersa Thunder .380 over some of the other midget offerings. Everybody said, "You can get a 9mm the same size!" Yeah, but .380 in that 3.5" barreled frame is more controllable, esp. with the fixed barrel. I've got a full 3-finger grip and can shoot accurately out to about 20 yards.

481
July 1, 2013, 08:42 PM
tnoutdoors9 FMJ & FMJ-FP penetration in ballistic media (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkscBbMGp5k)

Wow, those two FMJs went quite quite a ways.

One thing's for sure- if you want a lot of penetration, you want FMJs.

kBob
July 2, 2013, 12:02 AM
Anyone remember the old Super Vel 88 grain JHPs that were basically TCs with a hole in the end?

Anyone else used to do reloading with the old Speer 100 grain SJHP hollow base?

I liked the old blue box S&W branded ammo as an idea, but their execution was awful with QC problems. It was a semi jacketed soft point having a good bit of exposed dead soft lead ....or Peanut butter as we called it. A 90 grain bullet to boot. Unfortunately it did not seem to feed reliably in anything my buddies and I had.

These days I try not to use a .380 as a carry gun but when I do, like a couple of others here, I reach for factory loaded TC-FMJ bullets for absolute reliability of functioning in my remaining .380 ACP pistols.

-kBob

MCgunner
July 2, 2013, 12:27 AM
I just bought a 9 and was happy. :D

JohnBT
July 2, 2013, 08:47 AM
"I think that's a little optimistic."

Maybe it's my public school education. :) But they said "straight-line penetration in flesh and bone". I might believe it if they only said "flesh".

jimbo555
July 2, 2013, 08:59 AM
Shooting illustrated .com tested the 90grain jhp+p from a s&w bodyguard and it penetrated 10 inches,expanded to .60 at 986fps. My beretta 84 has almost twice the barrel of the bodyguard so i'm thinking penetration would be better.

481
July 2, 2013, 03:34 PM
Shooting illustrated .com tested the 90grain jhp+p from a s&w bodyguard and it penetrated 10 inches,expanded to .60 at 986fps. My beretta 84 has almost twice the barrel of the bodyguard so i'm thinking penetration would be better.

The (possible) increase in velocity from your longer barrel may also increase the amount of expansion causing the JHP to penetrate less.

kBob
July 3, 2013, 12:29 AM
1974 Speer Reloading manual #9 list a load for their 100grJHP using unique that produced 1004 fps in an HSC. The STARTING LOAD made 963fps.

Using a lighter 90 grain JHP and unique they listed a 1046fps load with a starting load at 1012fps from a Mauser HSC.

1981 Handloading from NRA listed a Unique load for a 115gr JHP that made 850fps from a 4.5 inch barrel and a 90 grain JHP unique load that made 1000 from a 3.5 inch


and this new stuff is hot?

-kBob

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