help with heavy 45 ACP bullet


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bullethead
June 25, 2013, 09:00 PM
I recently purchased a Lyman 452400 bullet mold off Craigslist for use in my 45ACPs and 45 Colts. The mold casts a real nice 244gr bullet, but I can't find any loading information for it. I looked thru all of my manuals but found no listings for either caliber using this bullet. I don't think figuring out a load for the Colt will be a problem, but I am not sure exactly where to start with the 45ACP. I plan on using Unique, but I also have several other pistol powders that I could use. I am looking for target/plinking loads. Does anyone have experience with this bullet they would like to share.

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Coldfinger
June 26, 2013, 10:14 AM
I also look through some manuals. Cannot find any loads for that weight. Could be a custom mould. Could be long colt mould. Definitely not an acp weight I have ever encountered.

BigG
June 26, 2013, 10:22 AM
What sizer do you use? .452? The 45 auto diameter is smaller than 45 Colt and the 454 will probably not chamber in an auto.

Walkalong
June 26, 2013, 10:27 AM
Most .45 Colts these days are .451 (.452 for lead). Size them to fit the throats. If your throats are not over sized, you'll be able to size to .452 for both.

highlander 5
June 26, 2013, 10:37 AM
Use the data for a 250 gr bullet that should work. Depending on the shape of the bullet it may not feed in a semi auto pistol. One of the reasons I picked up a S&W 625.

SlamFire1
June 26, 2013, 10:59 AM
You ought to define the pistol you are using. I do not recommend using a 250 grain bullet in a M1911 or any semi auto pistol. I experienced frame peening with a factory Colt Combat Elite with standard loads, I would not want to damage a M1911 with heavy bullets.

These loads were tested in revolvers. A pre WWII pistol is not as heavy or as stout as the 1990s S&Ws I have encountered. Loads that are absolutely uncomfortable in my M1917 might not be as bad in a late model Smith.

I have only tested loads in my M1917. Because it is a prewar pistol, it needs large bullets to avoid leading. I tried 6.0 grs Unique, and 6.5 grains Unique. In this lightweight pistol I found the recoil excessive, especially with the 6.5 grain load. Since I tested these loads I found that many pre WW2 pistols did not have heattreated cylinders of barrels and I expect these loads would batter the poor things out of time. If I were to try Unique again I would try 5.5 grains and see if velocities are around 750 fps.

Because I shoot 45 AR loads in this M1917 and a converted MkVI Webley, I now use a load of 255 LSWC and 3.5 grains Bullseye. This is a very mild load, shoots well, and does not stretch the top strap of the Webley.

M1917 S&W Brazilian Export 5" Barrel

250 LRN (.454) 6.0 grs Unique thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 44F
Ave Vel = 833
Std Dev = 25
ES 79.6
Low 789
High 869
N = 12
Heavy recoil, aimpt about 6" low at 25 yard. But very accurate



250 LRN (.454) 6.5 grs Unique thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 44F
Ave Vel = 888
Std Dev = 31
ES= 103.3
Low= 844
High= 947
N=12
heavy recoil, aimpt 5 OC below target, too heavy a load


250 LRN (.454) 4.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 44F
Ave Vel = 754
Std Dev = 10
ES = 39.5
Low= 744
High= 783
N=14
Mild recoil, aimpt 5 OC, accurate

250 Nosler JHP (.4515) 8.0 grs Blue Dot thrown, mixed cases, FED150 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 44F

Ave Vel = 749
Std Dev = 24
ES =87.8
Low= 709
High= 797
N =12
Mild recoil aimpoint 5 OClock

bullethead
June 26, 2013, 10:34 PM
I should have mentioned that my plan was to use these bullets in my Glocks and a Ruger 345, as well as my 45 Colts, which it seems better suited for. My 1911s feed all of the various SWCs that I cast with no issue, but the Glocks and Ruger don't want to feed them reliably. With that said, I sure don't want to damage my guns shooting a bullet that is too heavy. If I can't find a load that will work, I'll have to start looking for a 230gn RN mold.

Walkalong
June 26, 2013, 10:46 PM
Don't load it up hot and you'll be fine. A chrono will help with that.

Certaindeaf
June 26, 2013, 10:57 PM
You could give this an eyeball..

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP%20+P&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Source

Blakenzy
June 27, 2013, 11:45 AM
I won't comment on specific loads but just this weekend I gave my 1911 a test run with new samples of cast 200gr SWCs, 230LRNs, and 250gr flat nose bullets. I was very skeptical of running such large 250gr bullets through my pistol and basically expected them to be a disappointment, to give unsuitable performance in feeding and what not, but was pleasantly surprised at how well they worked. Only tried a few magazines but feeding was flawless with 1.20"OAL and accuracy was, for some reason, probably the best of the three that day. Recoil was not bad overall although there is clearly a tendency towards the stout side if you don't keep your loads on the low.

I would say that further experimentation with 250s should be interesting. With appropriate loads this may be a fun round to knock targets over with.

On a side note I think that if shooting anything over 230s will be a habit, changing to a heavier recoil spring might also be a good idea http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#799

A recoil buffer could be good just in case too.

41 Mag
June 29, 2013, 09:30 AM
I used around 5gs of Unique with my 250-260'ish grain loads out of my newer SS Colt Govt 1911. The function was fine and they aren't anything horrible to shoot with regards to recoil or battering. The velocity isn't much when compared to a 200 or 230gr, but I wasn't looking for that. I was simply looking for them to operate the slide and chamber, which they did just fine.

I figure that they will do well for an up close and personal need, Heaven forbid that need ever arise. I can say that even though they are moving along at a slow pace, they do tote a whollop.

Here is what I posted in another forum on a little informal comparrison I did with them,
Cast - VS - Jacketed (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502786)

The powder I used with them I have found to be almost if not an exact cross over with my older jug of Hercules Unique. So when I worked those up with the Salute, I also tried them with the Unique a week or so later. I still haven't chrony'ed these loads but in the other revolver loads they almost mirror velocities exactly. If you use the newer Unique with the 240'ish bullet you could easily use the 250gr data as I did.

Since I did that test, I have changed alloy to what I call my 1.5/1.5/97. It's basically my blend of a 25-1 or so alloy. I am just reducing some Iso Core alloy to soft enough for reliable expansion at the lower velocities.

Hope this helps.

bullethead
June 30, 2013, 10:55 PM
thanks gentlemen for all of the replies. Lots of good information. I think I will start out between 4.5-5 gr Unique just to test the waters and move on from there. I just want a light load that is reasonably accurate at 25 yards for some informal plinking. The bullets I cast were a 95-2.5-2.5 mix, sized to .452, which should work without leading problems (I use this mix in most of my other handguns with success). I will play around with seating depth making sure they pass the plunk test. I'll report back with range results later in the week.

bullethead
July 4, 2013, 12:09 AM
I got a chance to test a few of these bullets today. The 4.5gr loads were very pleasant to shoot with no FTFs and about as accurate as I can shoot. The 5.0gr loads seemed to slam the slide a bit. I don't think they were too hot for the gun at all, but for just plinking, I will stay with the lighter loads. I'll run them across the chronograph when I get a chance. Now that I know this bullet will work, I might try some loads using 231 or 700X next.

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