C&R audit questions


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jc89
June 28, 2013, 11:53 AM
I'm thinking of getting an 03 FFL.

I read that they are allowed 1 audit per year, and I'm curious if they are just checking to make sure your buy/sales records match your collection or if they are also running background checks on your buyers.

Has anyone been audited here? The idea of the ATF being able to visit my house to check items feels a bit...unsettling.

The license is definitely tempting since I have a lot of nice buys I'm interested in.

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jonnyc
June 28, 2013, 12:15 PM
I've read on-line about a few guys being audited, but never heard of anyone I know getting a call from the ATF. The on-line stories all seem to focus on the paperwork being correct.

AethelstanAegen
June 28, 2013, 04:01 PM
I've never been audited or heard anything from the ATF. I think you just need to be sure you keep your log book up to date. What do you mean by background check on your buyers? Obviously be sure you're not reselling large portions of the collection as a for profit endeavor. If they audit you, they just want to make sure you're keeping the bound book in good shape and not trying to run a business on an 03.

morcey2
June 28, 2013, 08:56 PM
I've never been audited, but I know of a couple of people who have. It's always about paperwork unless they think you're trying to turn it into a business. You usually have the option of doing it at their office or your house. There are a couple of threads on it over at surplusrifleforum.com

Matt

ford8nr
June 28, 2013, 09:14 PM
Just remember a C&R license is NOT a license to buy for the purpose of reselling.

Dentite
June 29, 2013, 12:45 AM
There is a survey thread on surplus rifle forum and out of maybe 100 respondents there were two people reported being audited. So pretty unlikely.

That being said, ATF not worth messing with so keep your records up and dont use your C&R/FFL 03 as a means of flipping rifles, trying to make money, etc.

You don't have to have the ATF come to your house if in fact your name comes up for audit. You can meet them (I think at their local offices) but you have to take your bound book and ALL your recorded C&R firearms. Not a big deal if you have only a few but if you have 50 that might be a pain.

You are allowed to sell or give away firearms you purchased with your C&R but it can't be means of doing business.

CnRnut
June 30, 2013, 08:37 AM
I've had an audit for my 03 FFL on my third renewal.
They checked all serial numbers of my logged C&R guns to my book.
Also made sure my C&R handguns were listed on my NYS pistol permit.
Wanted to measure barrel length on a "cute" Iver Johnson shotgun.
It was 3 hours of my life I wish I had back....... This will be my last run with it.
Called on a Sunday and were sitting in my driveway Monday.

fpgt72
July 1, 2013, 07:52 AM
I just let mine expire....just did not use it enough to really warrant it....that and most of the Stuff I need now are in the multi thousand range and I will want to personally inspect before I buy.

Ash
July 1, 2013, 08:06 AM
I let mine expire a decade ago now. I didn't get audited and I always kept things up to date, but I realized that buying from SOG and others meant I had little control over what I was getting and it became a sort of lottery - I might get something good, I might not. In the end, it cost too much to buy 5 in the chance of getting a good one. And, since I have to pay only $20 per transaction with my FFL, the change in cost really is minor. I know, you can save money at Midway and others, but I know that I spend less on firearms without one, have better arms in the processes, and no longer have mountains of cull to deal with.

However, those I know who have been audited had relatively pleasant experiences.

VegasAR15
July 1, 2013, 09:17 AM
Is there anything specifically that will trigger an audit or is it just random? I have had my C&R for two years now with no audit.

happygeek
July 1, 2013, 12:29 PM
Is there anything specifically that will trigger an audit or is it just random? I have had my C&R for two years now with no audit.


My guess would be it's random. As far as I know the ATF has no idea when or if you buy stuff using your 03 FFL. The seller would have a record in their books, you write it in your book, that's it.

I'd have to think that anyone buying stuff on their 03 FFL in order to sell for a profit is making it even easier to catch them. Sure you could buy 20 Nagants from aimsurplus.com for $100 each and sell them out of the trunk of your Chevy to gangbangers for $150 - $200, but when the cops start calling in SNs to the ATF for tracing and they all lead to aimsurplus.com who checks their book and quickly sees one guy bought all of them ...

To make it even easier to catch you, it's not like you can really lie about your address on your 03 since that's where the firearms will be shipped, and you're paying $30 to send that address along with your name & SSN to the ATF to keep on file. You're not just cutting out the middle man when you buy, you're cutting out the middle man when the ATF runs a trace.

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