Unlicensed open carry blocked in Mississippi


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NavyLCDR
June 29, 2013, 05:35 AM
Why? Because it will create a "wild west scenario" and because poiticians admit to voting for the bill without reading it.

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130628/NEWS010504/130628033/Judge-temporarily-blocks-open-carry-gun-law?nclick_check=1

Horhn, who voted for the bill, said he and many of his colleagues were misled as to the bill’s intent.

“We were told that this bill was a concealed carry clean-up legislation,” he said. “There was very little discussion that this would create open carry.

“We don’t believe that the constitution provides for open carry,” Horhn added.

We were told?!? Surely, Senator Horhn, you aren't admitting to the press that you voted for a bill that you never read?!? Really?

“The plaintiffs are trying to stop mayhem,” argued Jody Owens, an attorney representing Smith. “We’re looking at a wild wild West scenario.”


Well... let's see, there are currently 27 or 28 states that allow open carry with no license required, and 13 or so states that allow open carry with a license. Of course, all those states are "wild west" scenarios with people shootin' each other up and blood running in the streets! Oh...wait. No, it doesn't happen in reality, but every state where open carry comes up they claim the same thing: "Our state will be different than all the others! Our LEO will be in danger, and there will be blood in the streets! Our state will be the first that it will happen in, you just watch!"

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

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316SS
June 29, 2013, 03:07 PM
Wow, there are so many things wrong with this situation it's hard to know where to start!

1) Open carry has heretofore been prohibited in contravention of the clearly written state Constitution.
2) A legislator felt the need to author a bill to clarify the already clear (to me) fact that the state does not have the power to prohibit open carry.
3) One of the legislators who voted for it admits he didn't read or understand the language of the bill.
4) Agents of the state file for an injunction, citing the "wild west scenario" that, as Navy points out, has failed to materialize in many other states.
5) Last, and worst, the court grants an injunction, placing the power of the state to regulate open carry, usurped in violation of the state Constitution, above the rights of citizens.

The idea that the US and state constitutions grant specific powers to their respective governments, beyond which they must not stray, is dead. They do what they want, and find a way to rationalize it (or not). We no longer have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Apuuli
June 29, 2013, 09:53 PM
Common sense needs facts. How many people do you think know that open carry is legal anywhere in America? Many people believe that all legal firearms in America must be registered. The fact that open carry is legal in so many states and that blood isn't running in the streets NEEDS to be more commonly known before people can practice common sense.

X-Rap
June 30, 2013, 10:03 AM
Those red states should be ashamed of themselves and using any of that wild west/blood running in the streets crap should get one laughed out of the statehouse. Are people really that dense?

Apuuli
June 30, 2013, 11:04 AM
Yes, people are that dense.

1) People have an AMAZING talent for self-delusion. They believe whole-heartedly in rumors or lies that support with their opinions but are refuted by solid evidence or scientific consensus and are obviously wrong to an objective observer.

2) They haven't seen that map. If and when they do, see #1.

wildbilll
June 30, 2013, 11:22 AM
Open Carry has suffered a temporary delay. Just because some judge issues a stay is not the final act. The next step is the appeal. The law was duly passed. There is nothing in the State constitution that prevents it. There is nothing in the US constitution that prevents it. Open carry is coming.

RetiredUSNChief
June 30, 2013, 12:11 PM
Many people believe what they WANT to believe. And, quite frankly, many people are also quite content to believe whatever they are TOLD, if it fits their preconceived notions/prejudices that they have grown up with or have been indoctrinated with.

Logical evaluation of the facts and evidence has not been a particularly strong suit for the human race. One has only to look at our history to see that. In fact, it's remarkable that we've progressed as far as we have, as a species.

Wild West scenario, indeed.

:rolleyes:

X-Rap
June 30, 2013, 12:30 PM
Even allowing for what the map shows (44 oc states) there are plenty of asinine laws in some of the oc & cc states that I am familiar with so there is plenty of work to do in all 50.

pwhfirefighter
July 2, 2013, 01:34 AM
The AG filed a motion for the MS supreme court to rule on this. Hopefully, the MS SC will rule favorably on this Tuesday.

You have to understand the circuit judge that made the ruling is in probably the most liberal part of the state. The area he is in, Jackson, is supposedly listed as the #8 most dangerous city in the US, so this is not a surprise to me.

2@low8
July 3, 2013, 06:51 AM
The Mississippi Supreme Court declined to set aside the injunction, apparently not on grounds for merit, but supposedly for procedural reasons.

As it stands the Hinds County Chancery Court will be allowed to hold it’s hearing on July 8th .

PabloJ
July 4, 2013, 05:04 AM
Why? Because it will create a "wild west scenario" and because poiticians admit to voting for the bill without reading it.

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130628/NEWS010504/130628033/Judge-temporarily-blocks-open-carry-gun-law?nclick_check=1



We were told?!? Surely, Senator Horhn, you aren't admitting to the press that you voted for a bill that you never read?!? Really?



Well... let's see, there are currently 27 or 28 states that allow open carry with no license required, and 13 or so states that allow open carry with a license. Of course, all those states are "wild west" scenarios with people shootin' each other up and blood running in the streets! Oh...wait. No, it doesn't happen in reality, but every state where open carry comes up they claim the same thing: "Our state will be different than all the others! Our LEO will be in danger, and there will be blood in the streets! Our state will be the first that it will happen in, you just watch!"

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103
Actually on national level politicians do not have enough staff or time on bills that contain thousands of pages before they come up for vote.

beatledog7
July 4, 2013, 09:55 AM
Any legislator at any level who votes for a bill he or she cannot explain in full to the press or to a constituent ought to be removed from office on the spot. A vote for such a bill essentially says to constituents, "I do not know what this bill will do to you, and I do not care."

A conscientious law maker must either vote against such a bill or cause it to be killed without a vote.

It's true that nobody will ever be able to accomplish this feet regarding a 1000-page bill, and that's why bills should be simple, single issue documents of a max of maybe 3 paragraphs and should be immune to further bureaucratic meddling. For example, if a state representative or senator wants to ensure 100% clarity that it is indisputably legal for a person to openly carry a handgun wherever the same person could CC that handgun, the bill would read simply:

"Any person who can legally own a handgun in [state] may carry such handgun openly on his person anywhere in [state] where concealed carry of the same handgun is allowed. Carrying openly means carrying in such a way that the handgun is readily visible to the casual observer or in such a way that normal body movements of the person carrying the handgun may cause it to be visible. It does not including holding the handgun in one's hand(s)."

There are undoubtedly other 2A issues that need addressing in Mississippi (and in all 50 states), but this bill is about one very specific issue and only that issue. No discussion of exceptions and special circumstances, because none are needed. No inclusion of what sort of dog food one can buy or how many rental properties he can have in another state without incurring a tax penalty. No government takeover of student loan programs. Just simple wording that addresses the single issue at hand.

Even a legislator can't read the proposed wording and fail to understand what it means. I suppose the lawyers will want to chime in start talking about how this wording is too simple to be prosecuted or defended in court and must therefore have a host of mumbo-jumbo appurtenances. My point, though, is that because it's simple, we would never need to be in court about it. Every person of average intellect can read and understand such a law, and isn't that how it's supposed to be?

Prince Yamato
July 4, 2013, 12:31 PM
More realistically, they probably didn't want to lose tax revenue from CHL fees.

PowerG
July 5, 2013, 08:07 PM
Can a District Court judge issue an injunction that affects the whole state? Per WDAM News just now, in south Mississippi, at least Marion, Pearl River, and Lawrence Counties are allowing open carry as the law was written. The Police Chief in Columbia was interviewed and he said open carry is good to go there now, no matter what the Hinds County judge says.

2@low8
July 5, 2013, 08:43 PM
PowerG - It’s not a District Court, it’s a County Chancery Court! The answer is not clear because if it was a a patent usurpation of power then I think the Mississippi Supreme Court would have acted. However, this wouldn't be the first time I was wrong! :D

I am anxious to see how this is going to be explained. If the thinking that a thong of leather around a gun makes it concealed, the answer to this fiasco should be a hoot!

45crittergitter
July 11, 2013, 02:44 PM
This was a circuit court judge. Apparently the state AG's lawyer agreed that the TRO does apply statewide, because it stops the state's enactment of the law. Apparently the state supreme court would not intervene because you can't appeal a TRO. If the circuit judge issues a permanent injunction, then apparently that can be appealed. I presume the circuit court is the venue because all higher courts only hear appeals.

2@low8
July 11, 2013, 05:19 PM
A Chancery Court is not a Circuit Court (aka district court) There are 22 districts in the state, and you will find the Circuit Courts within them. A total of 51 Circuit Court judges have been appointed to preside over the hearings held in these courts.

If there arises any dispute regarding equities, adoptions, divorces as well as custodial rights, the Chancery Courts have jurisdiction in the state, because they have the necessary jurisdiction to hear cases involving these matters. The number of Chancery Courts in the state is currently 20, with 48 Chancery Court judges serving in them.

By the definition of a Chancery Court’s jurisdiction, I fail to see where they have the right to decide that a firearm’s law is unconstitutional. What I do see is the only judicial court willing to hear and act on anti-gunners demands. We’ll see…

Cosmoline
July 11, 2013, 05:53 PM
It really seems to be an overtly political attack by the judiciary against the legislature. From what I can remember, Mississippi has long had a more liberal judiciary than legislature. I remember the fight over tort reform a few years back that involved similar back-and-forth.

Ash
July 12, 2013, 10:15 AM
Yet in Mississippi it remains perfectly legal to carry loaded in a car as the car is an extension of the home. Odd that road rage shootings are so utterly rare.

pwhfirefighter
July 14, 2013, 02:04 AM
Yet in Mississippi it remains perfectly legal to carry loaded in a car as the car is an extension of the home. Odd that road rage shootings are so utterly rare.

Excellent point ASH. Being able to keep a loaded weapon in a vehicle has been legal here in MS for several years now.

ETA- without requiring a permit

Deltaboy
July 14, 2013, 07:33 PM
Keep fighting.

45crittergitter
August 10, 2013, 11:07 PM
In MS, I see nothing whatsoever in the laws that make cars "an extension of the home." However, carry in cars in MS without a permit is legal by statute, as it is on your own real estate.

blitztech
August 10, 2013, 11:40 PM
When I first moved to Hattiesburg I stopped the first cop I saw and asked him if it was legal to keep a loaded handgun in my vehicle. His exact words were "in Mississippi your vehicle is an extension of your private property, you can leave it loaded on your dashboard if you wanted." He was HPD.

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