Sig question


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Rittmeister
June 30, 2013, 01:13 AM
I've got a Sig P6 that I got a while back in a trade deal, that I'm quite taken with.

I'm wondering which Sig might be the "size equivalent" to the P6/P225, but in a double-stack frame. That is, same slide/barrel length and same grip length but double-wide, so to speak.

P228, P229? Any info would be helpful. Still want 9mm, if that matters.

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sigarms228
June 30, 2013, 01:20 AM
Yep the P228 and P229.

The P228 would be closer to the P225 because they both have the folded carbon steel slide with internal extractor while the P229 has the milled stainless steel slide with external extractor that weighs a little more also. Both are excellent choices but a new P228 is harder to find though if one is patient they should be able to find a nice used German/W.German P228 which IMO is one of the finest 9MM combat pistols ever made.

9mmepiphany
June 30, 2013, 02:17 AM
The 228 would be the closest to what you are looking for if you want a size comparable double stack 9mm. However if you are looking for a double-wide feel in your hand, the 228 won't feel much wider...the grips of a 225/P6 are much thicker than those on a 228

Bovice
June 30, 2013, 04:06 AM
The 228 would be the closest to what you are looking for if you want a size comparable double stack 9mm. However if you are looking for a double-wide feel in your hand, the 228 won't feel much wider...the grips of a 225/P6 are much thicker than those on a 228
Really? I'll definitely concede to your experience 9mmepiphany, but the P6/P225 are single stack 9mm pistols with the same barrel length as the P228/P229. Wouldn't the single stack quality of the P225/P6 make them thinner?

It wouldn't be double wide, per se, but the P228 is thicker. If you have big hands like me (6'2", a solid 260, extra large hands) the thickness of a double stack pistol in 9mm is very much welcomed. In single stack 9s, I feel that I can reach too far over the trigger.

A gander mountain in my area seems to have several of the new P228s which are dubbed the M11. Another shop not too far from there has one as well. If I were in the market for a P228, I think I would try to find one of the actual P228s with the folded slide/breechblock insert. Those are the actual pistols that were issued to our military and built the reputation that the P228 was known for. Used SIGs are an excellent value, and as long as it shows no obvious abuse, a used folded slide SIG still has more life than you and I. I find it hard to justify the beefiness of the P229 without having it in the larger chamberings .40 or 357 SIG. Not that the 9mm P229 is a bad gun. In fact, it's actually fantastic. I'm just being a purist I guess. My P229 is a .40, which I've tried out as a 357. It was cheaper for me to reload 357s than .40s, and I actually used it as a 357 SIG in IDPA. What I determined was that it was too much muzzle blast and noise for even semi-enclosed areas with earmuffs on (inside a vehicle, between barricades, etc.) and the recoil was very strange to me. I had faster splits with the .40 barrel with ammo at a greater power factor no less. The sheer blast of the 357 affected me more than I expected.

At any rate, keep in mind that the new "M11" is actually just a 9mm P229 with the new long extractor. I don't know about the 9mm variants, but I have heard from reliable sources that the long extractor P229 .40s/357s have been iffy in reliability. Mine is a short extractor .40 version purchased several years ago, and 6000 rounds in I have not seen it choke, except for when it was time for a new recoil spring at around 3k. I am a SIG advocate, but I'm not entirely sold on the long extractors. I don't think the design was thought out too well.

Potatohead
June 30, 2013, 11:13 AM
I think I would try to find one of the actual P228s with the folded slide/breechblock insert.

What exactly is a "folded slide/breechblock insert"?

The Lone Haranguer
June 30, 2013, 11:45 AM
What exactly is a "folded slide/breechblock insert"?
"Folded" means the slide is a stamping, (the stamping process folds the metal into shape) from conventional high-carbon steel. The lower front section is then welded on, and a separate breechblock is inserted and held in place by two hollow roll pins, one inside the other. The "milled" slide is machined from a single piece of stainless steel. It still has a separate breechblock, but uses a solid, press-fit and directional (can only be driven in or out one way) retaining pin. It was first introduced on the P229 because that gun is made for the higher pressure/recoil .40 and .357 SIG, which are excessive for the lighter stamped slide. "Bing" or "Google" some pictures and you will see the difference.

I'll definitely concede to your experience 9mmepiphany, but the P6/P225 are single stack 9mm pistols with the same barrel length as the P228/P229. Wouldn't the single stack quality of the P225/P6 make them thinner?
Yes, but not that much thinner, as you would expect, due to the thickness and contours of the grip panels. In fact, the P225's grip feels (and I acknowledge this is somewhat subjective) practically the same size as my CZ75 Compact PCR that has thin wood grips installed, and that gun holds six more rounds.

OilyPablo
June 30, 2013, 12:16 PM
I have both the P229 and P225/P6. The guns are not the that much different in size at all. Which is interesting because my P229 is a 357Sig/.40S&W and holds 12+1 rounds. The slide is slightly wider on the 229 and the P6 has a very slightly longer slide. I do have the Pachmeyer rubber wrap grip on the P6 and Goncalo alves wood grip on the P229. They both feel incredibly comfortable in my smallish hands. The P6 is an indestructible used beater and the P229 is a sexy desk gun.

Both have a learning curve to become accurate and one with the gun, IMHO.

Fremmer
June 30, 2013, 02:17 PM
Yup I was gonna speculate about what an actual owner like Pablo knows from experience, there may not be a significant difference in size between the pistols, you'd just have to compare the feel of each in your hand.

9mmepiphany
July 1, 2013, 10:10 PM
Really? I'll definitely concede to your experience 9mmepiphany, but the P6/P225 are single stack 9mm pistols with the same barrel length as the P228/P229. Wouldn't the single stack quality of the P225/P6 make them thinner?
You would think so, wouldn't you? That is what I thought when I was first told this, but if you pick up a 225/P6 and a 228 and measure them, through the middle of the grip , with a set of calipers, they are the same. The 229 grips are thicker where it bulges under the slide stop.

The frame of the 225 is thinner, but it's grip slabs are much thicker. That is what allows it to fill the hand so well. The curvature from the frame into the panels starts earlier...it is similar to the feel between a regular 1911 and a STI/SVI frame.

To really take advantage of the 225/P6 frame thinness, you can put on a pair of Hogue G10 grips

jimsmith80
July 1, 2013, 11:32 PM
The P225 / P6 is the same overall size as the P229/P228 both are exclet guns, I got the P229 in 9mm first then the P6, then a few P226's and others. Sig makes good pistols. if you did not know there are several companies now that are offerning an upgrade on the P6. They will put night sights on it, do the triggers, and anything else you can think of. Sig will aslo do this for a modest fee ( a few years back it was 179$) but I am sure the price has changed. hope I helped.

Bovice
July 2, 2013, 09:37 PM
Well I'll be darned.

I guess that's because the P225 came from a different era, before capacity became king. It's hard for me to imagine a single stack 9mm that doesn't have the quality of being thinner than a comparable double stack.

I did know that the 229 has (or at least had, mine is the pre-E2/229-1 era) a bulge in one grip that the old 228 does not. With that said, I'm speaking from experience with the .40/357 frame which was slightly larger than the 9mm frame a few years back, before they moved to a single frame size.

Does anyone know if the M11-A1 228s have the bulge on the left grip panel?

9mmepiphany
July 3, 2013, 12:01 AM
I guess that's because the P225 came from a different era, before capacity became king. It's hard for me to imagine a single stack 9mm that doesn't have the quality of being thinner than a comparable double stack.
Many folks don't remember that P6 (along with the Walther P5 and H&K P7) were intended as duty guns to be worn on a duty belt. The were designed in answer to the post-1972 Olympics LE desire to upgrade their guns from 7.65 (.32 ACP) to 9mm.

Thinness wasn't a major consideration for a belt gun

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