[Bahadur]

Wonder what happened there...

From AP:

Charges Dropped Against Muslim Chaplain

MIAMI - All charges have been dropped against the Army Muslim chaplain accused of mishandling classified documents at Guantanamo Bay, which houses suspected terrorists, the Army said Friday.

Capt. James Yee will be allowed to return his previous duty station at Fort Lewis, near Tacoma, Wash., said Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo.

The Army charged Yee last September with mishandling classified material, failing to obey an order, making a false official statement, adultery and conduct unbecoming an officer for allegedly downloading pornography on his government laptop.

His lawyer said last week that a proposed settlement was in the works.

Miller said Yee will be offered nonjudicial punishment for allegations of adultery and pornography.

[El Tejon]

Headline: THR Border Guards disappointed

Another victory in the WoT?:D

[Jim March]

Oh thank God. Sigh. We didn't need something like this.

[Standing Wolf]

His lawyer said last week that a proposed settlement was in the works.

Something smells bad.

[El Tejon]

Standing Volk, the smell is the prosecution's case!:p

Trying to score political points with the mouth-breathers to M-1 pencil some desk jockey's career over some lonely young chaplin.

What a pile of horsefeathers! Hope the chaplin sues the snot out of them, if possible.

[TaurusCIA]

He should not have been prejudged by what was reported in the media and neither should the dismissal of charges. Everyone should know by now that what we hear via the media is half truths AT BEST. We know just enough to be dangerous. :eek: What we don't know is the whole truth.

[SodaPop]

"In dismissing the charges, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo, which operates the detention center, cited "national security concerns that would arise from the release of the evidence" if the case proceeded. "

[Preacherman]

Sorry, I don't buy this. The charges against him were initially of the most serious kind - the sort of thing that could lead to the death penalty in wartime. Then, they were downgraded to "misdemeanor" type charges (e.g. adultery). Now, even those charges have been dismissed. My take on it - someone wanted desperately to nail this guy, and tried every which way, but simply couldn't come up with the evidence.

If I were in this chaplain's shoes, I'd be briefing my lawyers right now and filing a humongous lawsuit against all concerned. That way, I could ensure that evidence came out in open court about what really went on - from both sides. If they choose to settle rather than allow that evidence to be heard, well, I'm still on top!

[El Tejon]

Hiding behind the skirt of "national security"!!! What rubbish! IT WAS A MILITARY PROSECUTION!

Everyone involved held security clearances. Do those morons think we are ignorant enough to believe that the prosecution's evidence would be published in the newspapers, or that the trial would be open? :rolleyes: :fire:

This case was pure undisguised bigotry, plain and simple. It's America's new pasttime, whack the Muslim and the mouth-breathers will believe it.

The chaplin should SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE and then move on to civil litigation!

[CarlS]

Unless things have changed, by law a member of the military cannot sue the government.

As another post said, we don't have the whole story, either side of it. This case was pure undisguised bigotry, plain and simple. It's America's new pasttime, whack the Muslim and the mouth-breathers will believe it.
How do you know this? Do you have information that the rest of us don't have? Could it be that you are biased?

[FedDC]

Holding a security clearance has very little to do with access to the information. It is called compartmentalization. I hold a TS/SCI clearance with 5 SCIs...in other words, pretty high clearance. That does not mean that I have access to all information, even though it falls within my clearance level. There are a number of other concerns like need to know, security of ongoing operations, security of the people involved, their future careers if they are outed...etc. You have to look at what is to be gained vs what is to be lost. THe chaplin can do no more harm. The loss of an ongoing op can do great harm. It is not always worth going after something that can no longer hurt us and possibly failing to prevent an attack.

[Croyance]

Since this was a military investigation, and presumably any charges would be held in a military court, couldn't the court be sealed to the public? The given premise for dropping charges was national security concerns if some of the evidence came out.
To me, this feels like Los Alamos.

[CarlS]

Since this was a military investigation, and presumably any charges would be held in a military court, couldn't the court be sealed to the public? The given premise for dropping charges was national security concerns if some of the evidence came out.

The answer is yes and no. I am not a JAG so I can't really respond accurately. Several things come into play. The freedom of information act and the fact that the accused is entitled to be represented by legal counsel. That counsel can (and if I were the accused, it definitely would) be civilian. Even in a closed trail, there are ways to leak information. Many times in the past, persons have been convicted of lesser espionage charges because the government decided that stronger charges would compromise security, informants, on going black operations, etc.

I have no idea of the facts of this case and I have no opinion on this particular case.

[Bahadur]

Many times in the past, persons have been convicted of lesser espionage charges because the government decided that stronger charges would compromise security, informants, on going black operations, etc.However, if the the evidences were that secretive to begin with, one wonders why the government made the substantially more grave charges in the first place, fully knowing beforehand that much of the evidences would have to be kept from the proceedings.

Things will clear up some more when the final settlement is agreed to and announced, but not by much.

[dadman]

The Chaplain goes back to work after getting his name dragged throught the mud.

[cryptoguru]

Might be bias here but I'll chime in, as asianamerican, a retired USAF Major and retired govt employee, I think he got singled out because he was easy prey and some boys from the good old south didn't like our kind around.

[El Tejon]

.

[CarlS]

Might be bias here but I'll chime in, as asianamerican, a retired USAF Major and retired govt employee, I think he got singled out because he was easy prey and some boys from the good old south didn't like our kind around.

1. I'm a "good old boy from the South" and I don’t have prejudice against anyone based on his/her race. Even the prejudiced folks I grew up with didn't extend their prejudices to people of Asian descent.

2. It is kind of ludicrous to think that Southerners run the military. The military doesn’t assign you to posts/stations/bases based on your geographic origin.

Do I detect a bit of prejudice on your part toward Southerners?

[cryptoguru]

IMHO there MAY have been a tad bit of prejudice on the part of the security personell which checked Captain Yee in back stateside. Probably more religious prejudice than racial prejudice.

This no way implies I feel southerners are prejudice, hope that clears up any misunderstanding on my previous comment. I have a italian american wife.

[CarlS]

This no way implies I feel southerners are prejudice, hope that clears up any misunderstanding on my previous comment. I have a italian american wife.

No offense taken. I am sure that some suspicion of, if not prejudice toward, Islamic service members exists in the services given some of the incidents that have occurred during the Iraqi war. I’m not defending it; I’m sure it’s there.

[Sean Smith]

Prosecution is only a secondary priority of Counter-Intelligence investigations. Stopping the information flow to the enemy and rolling up the enemy's collection network is of primary importance. Thus, backing off on a prosecution could represent something totally different than what we think it is, e.g. an under-the-table deal to get info from Yee about bigger fish without looking like he's compromised by CI. An actual plea-bargain would be too obvious and could hinder further CI investigations.

This case was pure undisguised bigotry, plain and simple. It's America's new pasttime, whack the Muslim and the mouth-breathers will believe it.

Possible. But you have presented no evidence that this is the case. It seems like your knee-jerk reaction. The prosecution could have crapped out for any number of reason's not related to their case being bogus. One of which I've already noted. Really, none of us know either way.

There is also the obvious fact that recent converts to Islam have been involved in nasty attacks since 9/11, e.g. John Allen Mohammed (ex-US Army NCO) with the DC sniper shootings and Sgt. Hasan K. Akbar attacking fellow 101st Airborne soldiers with grenades. So it isn't as if the Army has NO basis for concern in that direction. There seem to be enough Muslim traitors to whack without making up new ones just to appease the mob's impulses, or whatever.

Side note: I completed the Army CI course and became a 35E back in 1999.

[Croyance]

There is also the obvious fact that recent converts to Islam have been involved in nasty attacks since 9/11, e.g. John Allen Mohammed (ex-US Army NCO) with the DC sniper shootings and Sgt. Hasan K. Akbar attacking fellow 101st Airborne soldiers with grenades. So it isn't as if the Army has NO basis for concern in that direction. There seem to be enough Muslim traitors to whack without making up new ones just to appease the mob's impulses, or whatever. Yet when a "fundamentalist christian" blows something up, or preaches hate, we do not look warily at those wearing a cross. We tend not to think that those wearing "WWJD" are about to flip out and kill us.

If charges were not filed for fear of leaking information, wouldn't any deal made include a discharge for James Yee? Not having military/prosecuting experience, this stands out to me.

This whole case made me think of Wen Ho Lee. Man gets his name run through the mud, then no real charges filed.

[cryptoguru]

Yeah this case reminds me of Dr. Lee, He is a good man..a very harmless man barely 5'3 tall. The gov't threw him in solitare confinement during the whole investigation and used incompetent or low end FBI agents to investigate him. The agents later admitted they lied under oath and the gov'ts case fell apart.

Dr. Lee only admitted to mishandling information, I as a scientist & engineer can tell you that there have been many times I experimented beyond the scope of my basic assigned project. I sought the help of individuals to gain access to more resources.

example: another fellow test pilot/engineer Colonel John Boyd enlisted the help of a civilian gov't employee to steal computer time to do calculations/simulations of his theories.

[Sean Smith]

Yet when a "fundamentalist christian" blows something up, or preaches hate, we do not look warily at those wearing a cross.

Yeah, that's been a BIG problem lately. Why, there are radical Lutherans blowing up airliners left and right... :p

Fact is, the terrorist organizations that want to kill all the infidels (us) are self-described Islamic groups. For us to ignore that fact, as one of many factors in terrorist investigations, just to be PC is a bit perverse.

a very harmless man barely 5'3 tall.

And we all know you've got to be 6'2" tall to steal government documents. ;)

[Leatherneck]

another fellow test pilot/engineer Colonel John Boyd enlisted the help of a civilian gov't employee
That would be my boss, the Honorable Thomas Christie, Director, Operational test and Evaluation. :D

TC
TFL Survivor

[Bahadur]

In Wen Ho Lee's case, there is only circumstantial evidence that his prosecution had anything to do with his ethnic-national origin. My suspicion is that the truth lies somewhere between what the government and Lee respectively claimed. In other words, Lee probably had some poor judgment/suspcicious contacts with Chinese scientists/agents, but probably did not intend to betray the United States deliberately. My impression of Lee is that of a naive scientist who wanted to foster contacts with the Chinese scientific community on his own, and violated some security precautions/regulations in doing so.

In Captain Yee's case, there isn't even a circumstantial evidence that his ethnic origin had anything to do with the prosecution. It appears that the government had "something" on him, beyond the pornography charge, but what that something was is not clear due to the impending settlement.

[Croyance]

Yeah, that's been a BIG problem lately. Why, there are radical Lutherans blowing up airliners left and right... Yes, this is especially funny if you work in a Planned Parenthood office or abortion clinic. I can see how being killed by a bomb by those fundamentalists is so very different.
The federal building in Oklahoma City was not destroyed by muslims.
And yes, many groups who want to kill/destroy the United States describe themselves as muslim and try to use that religion to recruit. Does that really make them muslim? The Taliban doesn't even know the contents of the Koran - most are illiterate and know only what their leaders choose to tell them (about their religion).

[CarlS]

The federal building in Oklahoma City was not destroyed by muslims. And yes, many groups who want to kill/destroy the United States describe themselves as muslim and try to use that religion to recruit. Does that really make them muslim? The Taliban doesn't even know the contents of the Koran - most are illiterate and know only what their leaders choose to tell them (about their religion).

No it wasn't; but does that change the Trade Towers, the Pentagon, Beruit, The Cole, Somalia, etc?

[cryptoguru]

leatherneck, I was not aware your a test-pilot too. I'm a former testpilot turned cryptoguru turned mechanical engineer.

Christie is still hard at it? It's been atleast 15 years since I've seen the man. Tell him flasher said hello.

[Croyance]

CarlS, no it does not. My only point is that people will use the name of religion to justify their actions and to answer Sean Smith's post. God is historically a smokescreen for killers.
It started when somebody pointed out that James Yee was muslim, and that what happened to him seemed motivated by that fact. When one muslim, or a group kills, we all jump on the religion. When the KKK sets up a burning cross, or a white supremest group wants a white, (christian) god fearing nation, and declares its willingness to kill (yes they actually do kill some) we do not shun all who wear a cross. Rightfully so, since it is not their religion, but their use of a religion to justify themselves that is wrong.
To put it another way, great things and terrible things have been done in the name of every religion.

[Bahadur]

leatherneck, I was not aware your a test-pilot too. I'm a former testpilot turned cryptoguru turned mechanical engineer.

Christie is still hard at it? It's been atleast 15 years since I've seen the man. Tell him flasher said hello.What does that make you guys, "Mini-Acolytes"?

We started with Capt. Yee and the next thing you know, it turns into a conversation about E-M theory and OODA loop! :)

[CarlS]

CarlS, no it does not. My only point is that people will use the name of religion to justify their actions and to answer Sean Smith's post. God is historically a smokescreen for killers.

I agree completely; it's sad but true.

[Sean Smith]

To put it another way, great things and terrible things have been done in the name of every religion.

Sure, but our present pressing concern, based on the recent kill count, is a small proportion of self-declared Muslims that want to blow us away.

"Hey, captain, we've got a Muslim chaplin acting like a complete wierdo."

"Ignore it. All Muslims are as nice as sugar-plum faeries and we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings in the military, where it is our job to kill foreigners in the national interest..." :rolleyes:

[SodaPop]

I think people should focus on the difference between The Prophet Mohammed and leaders of various other religions instead of Islam or Moslems.

Peaceful religions aren't started by violent men, but good people can be born into religions created by violent men.

;)

[Croyance]

SodaPop, well put as always. Sooner or later I will learn to string words together better.
SeanS, now you're putting words in my mouth. And I really don't respect a person more for their (fortunate) inability to be more violent.

Back to a questioin of mine: If the government didn't want to go to trial to avoid information getting out, why wouldn't they have included a discharge in the deal? Arguably there is now a hostile work environment, and they refuse to back claims of guilt.

[p35]

Has it occurred to anyone else what an impossible position Captain James Yee was placed in when he was assigned as chaplain to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay? The function of a military chaplain, essentially, is to maintain morale and help service members with their personal problems. Camp X-Ray, though, is an interrogation facility, designed specifically to manipulate the morale of the inmates to get them to talk about any knowledge they have of terrorist activities. That’s why they aren’t allowed to contact family or see anyone from outside the facility. Whatever efforts Captain Yee made to keep up the morale of the inmates, then, directly compromised the efforts of the interrogators to break them down and get them to talk.
I believe he was sent to Gitmo mainly as window dressing. Our Muslim allies in the war on terror can’t ally themselves with a nation that doesn’t respect the Islamic faith, and they are under a religious obligation to help fellow Muslims in trouble. We had to be seen to be at least respecting the prisoners’ religion, whatever else we were doing with them. Much was made, when he first arrived at Gitmo, of his efforts to see that the prisoners were allowed to practice Islam- basic stuff like having a copy of the Koran in their cells and being told the direction of Mecca so they could say their prayers properly. Later, rumors got out that he was making himself unpopular with things like chewing out an enlisted man for throwing a Koran on the floor during a cell search. How could he do his job as a chaplain without making the jobs of everyone else on the base harder?

Sadly, my first thought was "another overreaction by the Feds". They just have zero credibility any more.

[CarlS]

Has it occurred to anyone else what an impossible position Captain James Yee was placed in when he was assigned as chaplain to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay? The function of a military chaplain, essentially, is to maintain morale and help service members with their personal problems. Camp X-Ray, though, is an interrogation facility, designed specifically to manipulate the morale of the inmates to get them to talk about any knowledge they have of terrorist activities.

Why was this an impossible position? "The function of a military chaplain, essentially, is to maintain morale and help service members with their personal problems." The key phrase here is "service members", not enemy combatants. The US Army had chaplains at POW camps in WWII. I know of no incidents where any were suspected of aiding Germany, Italy or Japan. I don't buy the impossible position.

The crux of the matter is that a sect of Islam, comprised of fanatical, fundemental Muslims has committed itsef to destroying western civillization and imposing their brand of radical Islam on all peoples - including other Muslims. They have no ethics nor scruples; they will murder men, women and children deliberately - both Muslim and non-Muslim, to achieve thier goals. They are against individual freedom and anti-capitalist. That is who we are facing. An Army officer should have no trouble figuring out which side he is on.

Just my take on the situation.