Problem with scope mount?


PDA






Flynt
July 1, 2013, 09:35 PM
A couple years ago I had a gunsmith mount scopes on two of my rifles. I didn't have any experience with dovetail mounts, so I asked him to mount a new scope on rifle #1 and put rifle #1's scope on rifle #2, a Remington 700. He did so, and I zeroed in both scopes just fine. Rifle #2 ended up cooling its heels in the safe. Just got her out tonight and noticed something that seems really weird to me. As you can tell in the pictures, the rear ring and mount seem to be out of alignment. This seems like a pretty weak arrangement to me, but I don't see how there's any way they have slid around from recoil. Do I have a problem? Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Problem with scope mount?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Jackal
July 1, 2013, 09:40 PM
Loosen the rear ring, slide it backwards and re-tighten. Problem solved.:)

Tolkachi Robotnik
July 1, 2013, 09:43 PM
A lot depends on how it holds up under fire. How much recoil are you dealing with? Even tight looking arrangements can need later torque down action after firing. It does look like it could be more robust. There have been a lot of weak looking scope attachments that worked well.

Tolkachi Robotnik
July 1, 2013, 09:44 PM
It might leave scratches on the scope tube if you don't get it pretty loose before you move it.

Flynt
July 1, 2013, 09:44 PM
Tolkachi, thanks for your response. It's a .338 Win Mag.

Flynt
July 1, 2013, 09:53 PM
As you can tell, I don't know anything about scope mounts. Do I need to loosen the screw on the side of the stainless steel base? Will I need to re-zero? Thanks again, guys.

Jackal
July 1, 2013, 10:03 PM
Here's a video link. Loosen the screws on the top of the rings. Slide the ring backwards until it indexes correctly with the base and a solid clamp can be achieved. Thats a very sturdy mount, looks like it was not installed correctly. You may have to re zero, but it will not be far off. You currently have very little holding the scope to the rifle. Watch this video, while not exactly the same, it will show you what must be done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdyGeNHfbiA&list=SP5740B28DC4C96E5C

gdcpony
July 1, 2013, 10:09 PM
Is it me or does it look like the whole scope slid forward in the forward ring? I think I see some marking there. Interesting if so, but the fix is still the same.

Flynt
July 1, 2013, 10:09 PM
Thanks, Jackal... I'm beginning to think I need to take it back to the gunsmith. He's a reputable guy and has been in business for years.

rcmodel
July 1, 2013, 10:12 PM
If it shoots straight and stays straight, maybe okay.It is not maybe O.K., and it is not O.K. period.

The mount screw is only engaging the ring by the tiny bur it threw up when the 'gunsmith' installed it wrong.

I'd be going to have a word with him, and what he charged you to screw up my scope mounting job, and screw up the ring too.

Then I would fix it myself at home, the right way this time.

rc

Flynt
July 1, 2013, 10:41 PM
Just found all my receipts from GS, and realized Cabelas mounted scope in 2009.

Jackal
July 1, 2013, 10:58 PM
realized Cabelas mounted scope in 2009.

Now it all makes sense....:rolleyes: Seriously though, if you have the applicable screw driver, you can fix this yourself in about 30 seconds.

jmr40
July 1, 2013, 11:41 PM
I don't think they were mounted improperly. They shot loose a d the op didn't check them until now. You have to check screws from time to time. Part of the problem is the crappy mounts. Forget about anything with dovetails and windage adjustments. Just overly complex and weak. Take this opportunity to buy something better. Especially on this rifle

Tolkachi Robotnik
July 2, 2013, 12:11 AM
The rings should be aligned with the bases. The scope does look like it maybe moved on recoil. It will not hold together on such a big bore, like rcmodel says.

Get this though, the worst problem with mounts moving I ever had on any rifle was on a Cricket....

They were not high dollar mounts though, more like clearance.

You don't have to take it back to anyone. With steady hand and a well fitting screwdriver you can line it up right. It might not shoot the same when you are done moving things to your satisfaction, but it might hold the zero you eventually get a lot better.

Again, loosen the ring enough it doesn't move with any pressure, otherwise it will likely mark the scope tube.

Jackal
July 2, 2013, 12:39 AM
Those are VERY strong rings/mounts. In fact, these style bases are known and used for their strength and durability. Almost every scope base/mount produced is a dovetail arrangement, so I dont understand a couple previous comments. It was clearly installed wrong. Re set the rings and all will be good, they are a great choice for a heavy recoiling rifle.

Flynt
July 2, 2013, 08:44 AM
This may be an opportunity. I've just bought a 308 AR. a POF designed to allow mounting a large objective. I'm still trying to figure out what sights to use, but this scope, a 56 mm Nikon Monarch, might provide a good temporary solution while I educate myself.

Flynt
July 3, 2013, 12:40 PM
Update: I feel like an idiot for not noticing this before, but the windage screws on the rear mount were loose. After looking at Larry Pottefield's video about scope mounting, I guess I should remove scope, insert the alignment rods and tighten windage screws until the points of the rods meet? Correct?

This also raises the question about screws on my over dovertail rear sighs. They were installed by a good gunsmith, not Cabelas, but I've never checked to see if they are still tight. If they're loose, will I ruin my zero (at least windage) by tightening them? (Yep, I'm really concerned about losing zero on one or more guns -- due to cost and shortage of ammo & time involved.)

Thanks!

Haxby
July 3, 2013, 10:43 PM
What you should do is remove the scope, remove the rings, remove the bases, and get a new setup. Maybe Burris or Leupold dual dovetails, or Warne Maximas, or Talley lightweights.
When you have the scope off, take a look at how weak the rear base and ring is in that system. It failed once already.

Flynt
July 4, 2013, 11:13 AM
Haxby, both the rings and bases are Leupold:

http://www.sherwoodsguns.com/products/leupold-50019-2-piece-reversible-front-weaver-style-base-rem-700-silver

http://gunsinc.com/product.aspx?ProductId=39599&title=LEU+51033+30MM+RINGS+SUP+HIGH++++++MAT

What would you recommend as a step up? Keep in mind, both windage screws were loose. I guess Cabelas didn't use Loc-Tite. (I checked my two other rifles with dovetails, a 300 WSM and a 7mm-08, and everything was a tight as a drum. Those had scopes installed by a gunsmith.)

Thanks.

Haxby
July 4, 2013, 11:53 AM
Burris or Leupold dual dovetails, or Warne Maximas, or Leupold PRWs.

Like I said, with your scope off, take a look at your mounts. The front one isn't going anyplace. The rear one has two little side screws to hold it in place, and that doesn't always cut it on rifles that kick. With the dual dovetails, both mounts are like your front one.

HexHead
July 4, 2013, 12:02 PM
In the first pic, it doesn't look like the top half of the rear ring is screwed down tightly. Much larger gap than the front ring. That would have allowed the rear ring to move out of the base.

Flynt
July 4, 2013, 12:42 PM
Haqxby, I didn't get it that you were recommending dual dovetails. Didn't know they made them. Thanks.

HexHead, I checked the other side of the rear rings, and there was a wide gap there as well. I guess the Cabelas guy was having a bad day. Thanks.

jmr40
July 5, 2013, 09:45 PM
Those are VERY strong rings/mounts. In fact, these style bases are known and used for their strength and durability. Almost every scope base/mount produced is a dovetail arrangement, so I dont understand a couple previous comments. It was clearly installed wrong. Re set the rings and all will be good, they are a great choice for a heavy recoiling rifle.

It is the owners responsibility to check the oil in his car and check his scope mounting screws. If your car runs out of oil and ruins your engine, you don't blame the guy who changed your oil 4 years earlier for the problem. Same with a scope mounted 4 years earlier.

Windage adjustable mounts use a fingernail sized sliver of metal to hold the rear ring onto the base. The front dovetail uses a tiny cylinder of metal about the same size as a pencil lead to attach the front. Despite their popularity they are the weakest mounts available. They were designed to only be used on rifles where there were issues with getting the scope centered with the mounts. This was a very common problem 50 years ago, thus the reason for their popularity. There is simply no reason to use them today unless you are having scope zeroing issues. You will NEVER see such an arrangement on a precision rifle. They are the hardest to mount correctly, and the most troublesome after. They are heavy and even the dual dovetials will work loose after time effecting accuracy.

Get something with a cross slot, Weaver style ring and base. Or look into the DNZ mounts if you want strength and ease of mounting. Talley Lightweights are another option.

Flynt
July 6, 2013, 04:52 PM
JMr, I'm familiar with the DNZ mounts; have them on a 10/22 and a 336. I found one on their website for a long action Remington 700, but I'm concerned about the bar at the bottom. Wouldn't it make it harder to load the rifle? Thanks.

http://www.dnzproducts.com/game-reaper-mounts/remington-700/remington-700-long-action-30mm-scope-tube-med-mount-black

If you enjoyed reading about "Problem with scope mount?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!