need advice


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x_wrench
July 2, 2013, 01:16 PM
i got a new rifle, a T/C Venture, in 30-06. so, the next thing i need to get going, is brass, so i bought a lot off from Gun-broker, and they looked fine. i tumbled, deprimed/ full length sized, trimmed, chamfered etc. all of them, and thought i was ready to get going. so, i seated a bullet, ant standard max length, to see if maybe i could male them longer. and encountered my first problem. the bolt would not close. i got the bolt open, with some help from a wooden dowel, and found nice land marks cut into the bullet.so, i got that figured out, i have to seat these (Hornady 165g SST's). at 3.302" or shorter. but, the bolt was still a bit sticky. so i got to looking, and i can see fine scratch marks on the sides (base) of the shells. i checked them against SAAMI specs, and they are coming out of the sizer at the correct (per spec) size. BUT, the shells fired in this gun, are .001" smaller. so i am thinking this has a slightly tighter than normal spec chamber. i rechecked the set up of the sizing die, and in fact, put it deeper into the press far enough that the shell holder and die collide. and it still will not fit. (i did not think that was the problem, but i thought i might get lucky) anyway, so i figure i need a small base sizer die. when i looked to see if it was available, and the price, in the product description, it says "not recommended for bolt action rifles". which is why i am here. i think it is probably because it also say that it pushes back the shoulder slightly further. which may effect headspace. am i on the right track with this? is a small base sizer what i need?

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rcmodel
July 2, 2013, 01:22 PM
Hard to say yet.

Color a sized case with a Dry Erase marker or smoke it with a candle.

Then chamber the empty case.

Where the black rubs off is what is tight.

Almost 75% of the time, every time, it is a matter of not pushing the shoulder back far enough.

Shell holder contact with the die is normally not enough.

You need another 1/8 to 1/4 turn down to cause the press to 'toggle over'.

That takes care of the press frame flex, and linkage slop, and truly puts the shoulder back where it is supposed to be.

rc

USSR
July 2, 2013, 01:32 PM
so i figure i need a small base sizer die. when i looked to see if it was available, and the price, in the product description, it says "not recommended for bolt action rifles". which is why i am here. i think it is probably because it also say that it pushes back the shoulder slightly further. which may effect headspace. am i on the right track with this? is a small base sizer what i need?

Do as rcmodel suggested and color the case with a magic marker and then try chambering it. Normally, hard chambering is a result of the shoulder not being pushed back far enough, and if that is the case, the marks left on the case when trying to chamber it will be in the shoulder area of the case. However, if it turns out to be in the web area near the base of the case, then you will need a small base die or will have to use different brass. When they say "not recommended for bolt action rifles", what they really mean is "it's normally unnecessary for bolt action rifles". It will not hurt a thing. Shoulder push back is controlled by how far down the die is screwed into the press.

Don

david bachelder
July 2, 2013, 02:40 PM
Also make sure your primers are seated deep enough. Proud primers will cause the same problem.

Set them primewr down down on a flat surface, they should not rock. If they do, seat the primers a bit deeper.

x_wrench
July 2, 2013, 07:11 PM
ok, i will color a case, and se what i find, and get back to you. as far as the press "toggling over", it is a Lee classic cast press, and it is so stiff, you can not make it toggle over. once the shell holder hits the die, it a done deal. i HAVE tried! also, there are no primers in the cases. i started out, trying to find how deep to set the bullets on a resized empty case. because i knew there would be a bunch of tinkering to get it right. and then discovered this problem, quite by accident.

USSR
July 2, 2013, 07:20 PM
x_wrench,

After you color the case, try chambering it without a bullet seated to eliminate a possible problem associated with bullet seating.

Don

rcmodel
July 2, 2013, 08:00 PM
+1

And don't crimp them!

rc

x_wrench
July 2, 2013, 10:01 PM
well, thanks are in order, again! the shoulder did indeed need to be pushed back more. i had no way to make any further adjustments, so i did the only thing i could think of to do. i made a mandrel up, bolted the shell holder to it, and ground (a little more than i had planned) 0.015" off from the top of the shell holder. which allows the shell to be pushed that much further into the die, which completely cured the problem, but created another. now it pushes it back to far. but that is just a matter of a little "tweaking". now i just have to determine the exact amount, and lock down the lock ring, and i will be good to go. oh, and i have no intention of crimping them. i learned a long time ago to only crimp when it is NEEDED. it is just a brass killer. so, thanks to all, and especially rcmodel.

Fire_Moose
July 2, 2013, 11:02 PM
You got a great rifle there. Just wanted to be sure you know that it prolly has.2 recalls on it

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_777653_-1_757978_757978_image

Can find the other but it involves the safety clicking off during bolt closing.

Sent from my CZ85 Combat

gamestalker
July 2, 2013, 11:45 PM
The shell holder is supposed to make contact with the die, in most instances it will require a good deal of cam over to push the shoulder back enough. This is a common problem area in the learning curve in reloading bottle neck cases. too bad you ground your shell holder down, though better that, than the die.

GS

rcmodel
July 2, 2013, 11:54 PM
Who could have imagined you didn't need a small base die!! :D

rc

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