Thinking about a 1911 in 10mm. Suggestions?


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460Kodiak
July 6, 2013, 10:44 AM
So I've had a high power semiauto on the mind for awhile now. I really enjoy shooting my S&W E series 1911 in .45 acp, as I imagine most 1911 owners do. So I'm thinking a 1911 in 10mm.

I've done some research and I see that the Colt Delta Elite is still in pretty easy to find. Kimber has an offering or two. RIA has a new offering.

SA hasn't made a 10mm in a long time I believe.

Are there any other options I'm forgetting about?

What would you buy? If you voted other, please share.

And before anyone chimes in with "Why don't you get a GLOCK?" or "EAA guns are great!" I am not a fan of either of those companies or their guns. JMO.

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Otony
July 6, 2013, 10:47 AM
Check out Fusion Firearms. A bit spendy, but well worth it. They build longslide 10mm 1911, which I have always considered to be the best way to handle that cartridge in that design.

420Stainless
July 6, 2013, 12:45 PM
I bought a Delta Elite - a stainless one from the most recent run. I've only put 200 rounds through it, but it is functioning well so far and is quite accurate. No second guessing for me; I love it. This is the only 10mm I've ever owned or shot, so I can't really comment on other choices.

Canuck-IL
July 6, 2013, 12:58 PM
Dan Wesson (ie. CZ) offers a few.
/B

Landgroove
July 6, 2013, 01:11 PM
Powerful cartridge.
Dunno about ammo avail.

I remember liking the 45/38 from back in the 60's.
Just change barrel to switch. :)

CraigC
July 6, 2013, 02:50 PM
Check out Fusion Firearms. A bit spendy, but well worth it. They build longslide 10mm 1911, which I have always considered to be the best way to handle that cartridge in that design.
Exactly what I was thinking!

http://www.fusionfirearms.com/shop/six-inch/6-inch-long-slide/

kimbernut
July 6, 2013, 03:06 PM
If you have not fired a 10mm I would recommend doing so before a purchase.
I have fired two to see what all the press is about. I was not impressed. I love my .45 ACP 1911s and .44 Mag Revolver. I am not recoil shy but the 10mm IMHO is just unnecessarily harsh.

wally
July 6, 2013, 03:53 PM
I voted RIA so you can have money left over to buy some ammo :)

I'm not a Glock fan, and have a Colt Delta Elite, but I hate to say it, the Glock 20SF is a better 10mm platform.

In .45ACP or 9mm my Glock 21 and 17 collect dust (got caught up in the Glocks are great hype when they we still relatively new before the '94 AWB) while I shoot the crap out of my 1911 pistols.

Jitterbug
July 6, 2013, 04:02 PM
Wilson, Fusion, Dan Wesson and Colt Delta.

I have a Dan Wesson CBOB that has thousands of rounds through it since 2007 and it's still running strong. Many of those thousands were powder puff 180's doing about 1000 fps. But it has handled many "warm" loads too.

The Glock's seem to handle just about anything which is nice if you enjoy shooting them...I didn't.

One of these days I need to pick up a 5" 1911 in 10mm and I'll have my eye out for a D.W. with a good price, however prices being what they are these days, it might put a Fusion in the ballpark.

And one day I'd like a Delta just because it's a Colt.

orionengnr
July 6, 2013, 05:21 PM
Well, I can tell you which one I did buy... :)

Dan Wesson stainless CBOB (Commander Bobtail). To be honest, I was looking for a Kimber 10mm, but couldn't find one. The DW showed up used, 600 rounds, so I bought it. I had some (ahem) issues with it, and since it was "used", DW wanted nothing to do with me. Not at all impressed with the replies I got on the DW forum (section of the 1911 forum).

All that said, I (finally) have it working well, and I have way more into it than I will ever get back, so I'll probably be buried with it.

The 10mm is a neat cartridge, but it is a reloader's proposition...and at that, not an easy one. It is a rare day that you find 10mm brass on the floor at your range or find once-fired 10mm brass online.

As far as the Glocks go, I was considering a G20. Then, one day I picked up some 10mm brass off the floor. I was ecstatic (see above). Then I started looking the cases over. They were notably of round at the base--bulged. They went into the trash can. The more I read about Glocks, the more people I see stating that this is de riguer if you shoot full-power loads from a Glock barrel.

That idea went into the trash can...along with that brass.

Good luck, and enjoy your search.

crestoncowboy
July 6, 2013, 07:16 PM
I have a lot of 10s and for under 1200 ish the colt is the best 10 in a
1911. Kimber quality is spotty at best. I will buy a rock island when I see one without a rail. If you can justify the price, the nighthawks and Wilsons are nice, maybe someday I will. The Glock or Smith really is the best 10mm imho however. Have you looked at the 10xx series smiths.

Olympus
July 6, 2013, 09:03 PM
Dan Wesson CBOB and Dan Wesson Razorback both in 10mm. I have both and they are amazing guns.

I also had a RIA 10mm and it was very problematic. Ended up selling it.

Peter M. Eick
July 7, 2013, 09:37 AM
Dan Wesson or Fusion.

I have a Dan and a Baer 10mm. Since Baer won't make one today, I would get another Dan if I needed it.

Olympus
July 7, 2013, 10:12 AM
I also have a Fusion 10mm on order. Should be ready by late November. There is a 6 to 9 month wait on a Fusion build and you're looking at $2K+ on price.

bannockburn
July 7, 2013, 11:15 AM
If I had the money I would go with the Fusion 10mm. After that it would probably be between a Dan Wesson or a Colt Delta Elite.

hariph creek
July 7, 2013, 01:17 PM
I had a Delta. Spent a ton of money to give it all the "bells and whistles." Due to circumstances beyond my control, I had to replace it.

Now I have a Kimber Eclipse Custom II. I like it fine. Fit and finish are as they should be. Frankly, better than my Delta.
Changed out the firing pin stop, to a EGW flat FPS. Went to an extra power firing pin spring and a 20# variable recoil spring. Added XS Big Dots.
Works like it should light or heavy loads.
I'm not a Kimber fan boy. It seems like a decent gun for the money. MIM doesn't bother me. I don't like the IDEA of a plastic main spring housing, holding up fine, though.

So I have experience with these two only.
The Colt will always have more "pride in ownership."
Unless you like the Colt the way it comes? It's expensive to modify it.
The Kimber comes pretty much like "I" wanted, out of the box.
The Kimber has a ramped and supported barrel. The Colt does not.

It's the chamber support that matters most, to me. If you want to run HOT loads? You need chamber support. And if you don't want to run HOT loads? Why bother with 10mm's idiosyncrasies? Go with a .45.

As mentioned before, 10mm is a reloading cartridge. (however in the recent panic, it's one of the few consistently available calibers) If you are willing to load for it, it's great.

I do not find even HOT loads to be harsh. I consider, the power of, 10mm to be on par with .357 mag. If you fire max loads of comparable energy through service size platforms (say .357=GP100 4" & 10mm=1911 5"), I feel that 10mm had less perceived recoil. This is a platform issue, yes. But, I think puts felt recoil in perspective. Sure it has more recoil than a .45acp. It's got allot more energy, too.
My son has been enjoying "full house" 10mm loads (200gr @ 1200+fps), since he was 10. It's still his favorite gun to shoot. He literally has hundreds of said rounds through it.

I would have considered a Dan Wesson, but at the time Kimber is what I could find.

If I were starting over?
I would give serious consideration and research to the new RIA.

If I had my way? Ruger would make a SR1911 in 10mm...I guess i'm voting other!

Havok7416
July 7, 2013, 02:08 PM
I voted other. I own an IAI Javelina Longslide and it's super fun. The downside is that they haven't been made in over a decade.

nickE10mm
July 8, 2013, 02:06 AM
I've owned or STILL own almost all of the noted guns. The Kimbers are nice, the Dan Wessons are definitely nicer... However, my Fusion longslide is the finest firearm I own and the epitome of 10mm goodness.

Black Butte
July 8, 2013, 03:23 AM
As far as the Glocks go, I was considering a G20. Then, one day I picked up some 10mm brass off the floor. I was ecstatic (see above). Then I started looking the cases over. They were notably of round at the base--bulged. They went into the trash can. The more I read about Glocks, the more people I see stating that this is de riguer if you shoot full-power loads from a Glock barrel.

That idea went into the trash can...along with that brass.

Just get an aftermarket barrel. Problem solved!

460Kodiak
July 8, 2013, 12:20 PM
It's sounding more and more like Fussion is the way to go.

I'm kind of considering a Super 38 now too. Not on par with a 10mm for power but could be fun as well. Is Super 38 a better cartridge for a non-reloader?

Suggestions on those?

Olympus
July 8, 2013, 12:28 PM
If you don't reload, 38 Super is probably not for you.

Arkansas Paul
July 8, 2013, 01:02 PM
Powerful cartridge.
Dunno about ammo avail.

Good thing he didn't ask about ammo availability. :rolleyes:

I voted for Kimber. I think the Eclipse II is just awesome. However, I admit my opinion is based on looks, not experience.

waterhouse
July 8, 2013, 02:41 PM
I've been really happy with my Fusion longslide.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/waterhouse/ACTradHunter-3.jpg[/URL]

If you have any interest in double stack the STI Perfect 10 is a good one as well, but I don't shoot it as much as the Fusion.

sargents1
July 8, 2013, 05:06 PM
...
The Kimber has a ramped and supported barrel. The Colt does not.

It's the chamber support that matters most, to me. If you want to run HOT loads? You need chamber support. And if you don't want to run HOT loads? Why bother with 10mm's idiosyncrasies? Go with a .45.

As mentioned before, 10mm is a reloading cartridge. (however in the recent panic, it's one of the few consistently available calibers) If you are willing to load for it, it's great.
....


Basically, What he said. I would avoid any 10mm that does not have a ramped barrel.

At 37,500psi, the Ten is a high pressure cartridge (for a semi-auto). If you are going to have a 10, you will want to reload. If you reload you want your cases to make it thru several reloading cycles without failing.

Throated chambers (like a Colt Delta) are marginal in terms of support. They will work ok for factory new ammo with virgin brass, but I worry about them with reloaded brass.

From what I understand the Kimber and Dan Wesson 1911's have fully supported, ramped barrels. I would look at one of those.

Bongo Boy
July 9, 2013, 02:46 AM
If you google 'delta elite case support' or the like, you should find a number of discussions on the topic, along with comparative photos showing the issue therewith. Not sure what aftermarket barrels might be available to improve the situation.

While you specifically said you didn't care for EAA or the guns it offers, you may still want to consider the Tanfoglio Witness Hunter--EAA doesn't make any guns as far as I know, and Tanfoglio makes a number of extraordinary ones, IMO. The reason I still suggest a look at the Hunter is: all steel, single action only, double stack, 6" fully supported barrel and dead nuts accuracy. In spite of being a double stack, it doesn't feel the least bit fat to me, and I have average/medium hands with relatively short fingers. This is about as much a 1911 design as you can get and not be a 1911. It is beautifully made and finished, but of course 'unique' in terms of sights, trigger and of course the way the slide rides inside the frame, not on the outside.

If it's still thanks but no thanks to the Witness Hunter and has just gots to be a more 'true' 1911, then only based on comments of those who hang around the 10mm crowd, it's been the Fusion line that I've heard the most of, all positive. What I think is real nice there is that you can get pretty much anything you want at what I think are semi-custom prices. I have an upper limit as to what I think any handgun is worth, and many custom 1911s are way beyond that. Fusion seems to retain some sanity while offering some beautiful guns--all of them in 10mm, or just about. That would be my first choice, but I don't own one and never fired one.

As for not reloading, 10mm ammo, when available at all, is comparable in price to any other full-bore auto pistol ammo: $0.75 a round is possible with Underwood, and even lower prices can be found on ammo that doesn't exist. :) I don't see 38 Super being any more available or even remotely less expensive than 10--I wouldn't plan on price being a differentiator here. I will say that 38 Super in a longslide 1911 is fun, but 10 is funner.

Now, you didn't mention any particular purpose to which you'd put the gun, so that might be useful to folks. If you were considering a Delta I assume this isn't a carry gun, but I'm among those who find 10mm to be just the most perfect and versatile auto pistol cartridge devised, and I carry it every day--just not in a 1911. I would truly enjoy a CCO format 1911 in 10 for that purpose--if I didn't already have a Glock 29 to fill that role. Again, Fusion comes to the rescue with gorgeous options in the smaller 1911s.

Go 10--you'll be glad you did. When you do get into hand loading, the options for that cartridge abound.

powder
July 9, 2013, 02:55 AM
Just go with the S&W 10xx platform; 9+1, built like a tank.

460Kodiak
July 9, 2013, 10:26 AM
Just go with the S&W 10xx platform; 9+1, built like a tank.


Useless comment since I said in the OP that I'm interested in a 1911 in 10mm, not a GLOCK, not a Tanfoglio anything, not a S&W 10xx anything.

I do plan to get into reloading, but price of ammo is not a major concern to me as far as choosing a new gun. I shoot 460 magnum regularly, and don't reload. I pick my calibers based on what I want them to do.

Purpose of the gun? Well, I guess I just want one. No real purpose. I may carry it here or there. I may not.

If you google 'delta elite case support' or the like, you should find a number of discussions on the topic, along with comparative photos showing the issue therewith. Not sure what aftermarket barrels might be available to improve the situation.


This is good info. Thanks!

It sounds like Fusion is the way to go.

m3mh0g
July 9, 2013, 10:36 AM
I'm in the same boat as you looking for a 1911 in 10mm. For the value I'm leaning toward the RIA tactical 10mm. Everyone who has a rock seems to love them and for $600 retail kind of hard to beat, I'd love to have a long slide fusion but that is not anywhere close to the budget right now.

Olympus
July 9, 2013, 11:33 AM
I'm in the same boat as you looking for a 1911 in 10mm. For the value I'm leaning toward the RIA tactical 10mm. Everyone who has a rock seems to love them and for $600 retail kind of hard to beat, I'd love to have a long slide fusion but that is not anywhere close to the budget right now.

Not everyone. I had one and it was a loser. Had to send it back to RIA for warranty work and ended up just selling it.

ATLDave
July 9, 2013, 11:58 AM
I got a 10mm before I was into reloading, but it eventually drove me into it (and thank goodness for it!). It's a very easy cartridge to reload, FWIW.

I'll second the comments of those who are urging you to pay attention to case support. If you want to run down-loaded 10mm lite rounds, full case support isn't a big deal. If you want to run the full-throttle stuff, you need better case support than some have. Underwood makes full-throttle stuff, and then they make stuff for Colt Deltas; they warn against use of the former in Colts. See http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx

If 1200fps 200gr loads, or 1600 fps 135gr loads, are why you want a 10mm, you'll need to pay attention to case support. Seriously.

nickE10mm
July 9, 2013, 12:47 PM
I sure love my Fusion ....

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh585/nickE10mm/Fusion%20Hunter/NickFHuntertradIonXL-5xx.jpg (http://s1253.photobucket.com/user/nickE10mm/media/Fusion%20Hunter/NickFHuntertradIonXL-5xx.jpg.html)

460Kodiak
July 9, 2013, 12:51 PM
If you want to run the full-throttle stuff, you need better case support than some have.

I do want to run full power stuff. If not, I may as well buy a 40 S&W. So case support is something I will watch very closely in my choice. It sounds like the Delta is out then hey?

ATLDave
July 9, 2013, 02:45 PM
Yep, that's my understanding. I went with a non-1911 platform for my 10mm, so I never sorted through which (if any) 1911 10's had good support, nor whether there were aftermarket barrels which could fix the Delta's limitations.

And, regarding wanting full power, I assumed that would be your view. If you handload and are good at keeping your brass, there might be reasons to prefer 10mm to .40 even if loading to the same level (longer COL means a good reliability fit for a 1911 frame, as opposed to the .40's short length; large case capacity means that setback issues need not be as twitchy as in .40s), but for buying off the shelf ammo...

sargents1
July 9, 2013, 04:32 PM
When i was researching my 10mm purchase I found some pics on the interwebs showing the Kimber 10mm chamber. It had excellent support. The Dan Wesson was also excellent. Use your Google-Fu and look it up.

Nevermind, here's a link to a thread about 10mm chambers:
http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/barrelchamber-support/


I do have a nit to pick with Kimber. I find it puzzling that they want 1289$ MSRP on an Eclipse Custom II (in your choice of 10mm or .45ACP) yet they saddle that gun with a Plain Carbon Steel barrel in-the-white.

If you go buy a Ruger or Remington that is basically the same gun (I happen to think the Ruger is particularly nice) you can get one for an MSRP of less than 800$ and its all Stainless (frame and Barrel).

Other than being kind of expensive and having a silly barrel material I hear that the Kimbers are nice.

Personally, I went with a Glock 20. It was way less money, it has Loads of aftermarket support and it is very accurate. Plus there was the distinct lack of BullSh%$ that you get with Glocks. But, I understand that some folks just cant stand them (I get it, I can't stand the sight of a lowered truck, no matter how nice it is :barf:).

I think your best bet in a 1911 / 10mm is the Kimber. Just make sure you keep that barrel cleaned and lubed so it doesn't rust. Or pony up for the Dan Wesson Razorback RZ10.

460Kodiak
July 9, 2013, 05:34 PM
I do have a nit to pick with Kimber. I find it puzzling that they want 1289$ MSRP on an Eclipse Custom II (in your choice of 10mm or .45ACP) yet they saddle that gun with a Plain Carbon Steel barrel in-the-white.

I always wondered about that too. Seems a little lame to me.

When I looked at a brand new $1200 Kimber at a local store, and it had rust on the muzzle, it really kind of made me wonder if I ever wanted a Kimber. I'm leaning towards no. It just seems like you are paying for a name and nothing else. I know lots of people love thier Kimbers though, so whatever.

BlindJustice
July 9, 2013, 05:42 PM
.400 CorBON Barrel by Bar Sto Precision,
it has the O.D. of a .45 ACP barrel but it's
in essence a 'Bull' weight barrel because of
more material & not oversized... stock bushing
is a good fit

* .400 CorBon based on the .45 ACP case, 1997,
necked down for .401/10mm bullets
In 2000 it was changed to a small pistol primer.
SAAMI rates at 23,000 CUP same as .45 ACP +P .

* S&W 1911 Full size Stainless Steel, I run a 20# recoil spring, and
it uses the same .45 ACP magazines.

* .400 CorBon is limited to 155/165 gr. bullet weights or ess in weight
due to the short neck and those bullets like 180s taking up too much
space for the powder at max. O.A.L.

I don't shoot it much, but the two loads aI have are:
155 gr. Hornady XTP @ 1,350 FPS
165 gr. Speer Gold Dot @ 1300 FPS

Flat shooting, I wish I still had the eyesight to shoot
at 50 yards ah well, it's still fun at the range when you're
beside some guy in the next lane with a big Magnum revover
heh, it's loud.

Plenty of barrels on Gunbroker.com which sez sumpin

R-

ds7br
July 9, 2013, 06:17 PM
I've got both the Glock 20 with a Storm Lake barrel and the RIA. I have had NO problems with the RIA (I did add heavier recoil spring,mainspring,and FFPS). If you have the money the DW,Fusion, STI are the way to go. If not the RIA is quite suitable and like all 1911's fun to shoot.
Dennis

hariph creek
July 10, 2013, 04:50 PM
I've heard some gun "experts (?)" pronounce carbon to be superior to stainless, for barrels. I don't know either way? I didn't realize my Kimber barrel wasn't stainless until, I found my thumbprint "etched" on it. I guess I've got proof it's mine now? Would be nice if they could nitride it or something?
I don't loose allot of sleep over it, though. Not my first "white" carbon barrel.

HorseSoldier
July 10, 2013, 05:19 PM
I've had several 1911s along the way, and the Dan Wesson 10mm CBOB I used to own and sadly had to part with along the way was probably the best quality for price trade off I've owned. Little bit of a handful with really hot 10mm load, but still nowhere near as bad as hot magnum revolver loads, and while the recoil impulse feels different than 45 ACP, with more mild loads you could run the gun just as fast as a 45 in terms of controlled pairs and other drills.

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