I hate Brass Rats,,,


PDA






aarondhgraham
July 8, 2013, 11:41 AM
That's what I call them anyways,,,
The people who sit at my outdoor range and try to collect your brass.

I got a small windfall of ammunition last week,,,
A friend "found" six 50 round boxes of 9mm in his closet,,,
Since he sold his 9mm he decided to give me the ammunition for $10-box.

I decided to go to the range and dust off my trusty CZ-75B.

So I walk to the table at the 25 yard range and start loading up,,,
As I'm casually emptying the first 16 round magazine,,,
This old codger (at least 70 years old) appears,,,
And starts running a brass catcher.

You know the thing I'm talking about,,,
It looks like a kitchen whisk mounted on a wood rod,,,
Anyways he's actually trying to get my brass while I'm shooting.

So I stopped shooting and asked him what the heck he was doing,,,
He told me that as soon as the brass hit the ground,,,
It belonged to the first person to pick it up.

I simply could not believe what I was hearing.
He said it like he actually believed that,,,
And was mad that I didn't agree.

I don't reload myself but I do gather my brass for a friend who does,,,
I told the old far,,, eer,,, codger to stop but he just snorted,,,
"I have a right to pick up empties and you can't stop me."

My range is operated by a private club,,,
But it is located on a county owned and operated park,,,
I'm in my 60's but am not about to get physical with a 70 some odd year old man.

I stopped shooting and called the park ranger station,,,
After I related the whole scenario to the ranger,,,
He asked the man to leave the range.

Where do people get the idea it is okay to steal your brass,,,
while it's still hot!

I guess I have to start going to the member meetings,,,
To heck with the safety aspect of him collecting while I'm shooting,,,
It's just down-right rude to do this and is essentially theft of my property.

I'm just venting a bit,,,
But when did this become acceptable behavior?

Aarond

.

If you enjoyed reading about "I hate Brass Rats,,," here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Deltaboy
July 8, 2013, 11:45 AM
I understand your being upset, the gentleman failed to follow common gun range edicate.:fire:

guyfromohio
July 8, 2013, 11:46 AM
You're not out of line. Extremely rude.

Hanzo581
July 8, 2013, 11:50 AM
You did the right thing getting him removed. I've had people ask if I was going to keep my brass, which I don't, but to just take it....no way.

zeos
July 8, 2013, 11:52 AM
You have every right to be angry. I don't reload and when people ask I let them have my brass, but if I ran into someone so rude I would do the same thing on principle alone.

Ryanxia
July 8, 2013, 11:54 AM
Wow haha, that's way out of line. To me, once someone leaves the range it's free game (unless of course you just ask them). I'll usually let people have my brass depending on what caliber, if it's something my friends need or is in high demand that someone at my LGS will be able to use (9mm, 5.56, .45ACP, etc.) I'll pick it up myself.

Arkansas Paul
July 8, 2013, 11:55 AM
I hate Brass Rats,,,
That's what I call them anyways,,,
The people who sit at my outdoor range and try to collect your brass.


Those people aren't brass rats. They're thieves.
I consider myself a brass rat. I check the brass buckets as soon as I get to the range (that's what they're there for). I have been known to dig through the range trash cans (just paper targets, ammo boxes etc. Nothing gross).
However, regarding brass on the ground, I only pick up the brass on the ground if I am the only one there and it is obvious that it was left there. If someone was trying to get my brass when I shot it, I would consider him a thief and respond accordingly.

Newcatwalt
July 8, 2013, 12:03 PM
You were right in being upset with that guy. I can't believe he would think it was OK to pick up your brass while you're still there shooting without asking first. Also, I think it's very rude to pick up someone's brass while they're still shooting because it's too distracting for the shooter and probably very unsafe.

akv3g4n
July 8, 2013, 12:04 PM
The park rangers at the public range that I go to make it a point to say that you have every right to recover your brass and it's yours to keep. Once you put it in the brass bucket for the range, they recycle it and use the proceeds to better the range.

I've had people ask for my brass, but I reload so I politely tell them that I will reuse it. Never had someone just start grabbing it. I think I'd be a little peeved too.

skeptical_in_Ohio
July 8, 2013, 12:11 PM
Hi all-

I concur with the brass stealing concerns expressed here. The vast majority of people (at least those I see) at the range where I generally shoot (public State of Ohio range) not only won't touch others' brass without permission, but generally will try to be careful not to accidentally broom it away when they're cleaning up their stuff.

To the slight topic change. I don't reload myself, but give it (that which isn't aluminum) to either my gunsmith (who once jeweled the bolt on a Marlin I needed blued because he knew my son would shoot it), or a nice guy who's been at the range and given me a lot of encouragement and advice. Over the past couple of years he's gotten a lot of revolver stuff from me (easy for me to police that) and the vast majority of my .45 and 9mm (that I can easily find with a broom when I take a minute between mags). I also hand him my unneeded empty trays.

The other day, he (the range buddy) walked up with a box and handed it to me. I thought he just wanted me to see something, but then he informed me he was giving me a box (50 rounds) of .38 special target loads that he hand-loaded. :what:

Since I don't reload, I'm very aware of what bullets cost, so I thanked him profusely (and the empties left from the box of .357 I shot out last week are definitely his). ;)

Sometimes a happy story is nice to hear. :)

119er
July 8, 2013, 12:17 PM
That guy was way out of line! I have run into one or two old men that feel they are entitled to do whatever they like whether it be due to their age or possibly their status within the organization. Last I have checked our club has no rules regarding the issues of brass other than you are to pick your own to keep the grounds clean. It is left to adults to use common sense and courtesy to achieve this. It works for us but many people still leave .22LR and steel cases on the ground which I pick up as I come across them. I am a self proclaimed brass rat but I have limits. I only graze on empty ranges and I will not interrupt someone to ask about their brass. If they are still shooting when I leave I just leave it there for them to pick up or leave for the next guy. I am at a private club and most non-reloaders will notice those who are reloaders and will typically offer up their brass. If they do I insist that I will pick it up for them in return for their generosity. Some will just pick it up and bring it over.

Walkalong
July 8, 2013, 12:19 PM
That's not a brass rat, that's a rude so and so...... *sigh*

Zoogster
July 8, 2013, 12:21 PM
Taking your brass when you make it known you wish to keep it while it is hot and next to you is only slightly different than simply stealing the ammunition while it is still loaded sitting next to you.
It does not cease to be your property upon being fired. You have indicated you wish to retain it.
Being cycled through an action is not inherently different than unboxing it and setting them next to you on a bench.
Proceeding to take it anyways is theft.
If you were playing with a ball dropping it, throwing it, losing control of it, but clearly wishing to retain ownership of it, you would lose no right to its ownership each time it got away from you.

Some people are just accustomed to most people abandoning brass.
Until the economy had trouble 99% of shooters abandoned thier brass. In fact it was seen as waste, and considered littering to some. I remember people complaining about how some shooting areas were left covered in it. I myself never really saw metal brass as litter, though plastic shotgun hulls did seem like littering to me.
Many informal established outdoor ranges had years of accumulated brass, that most were content leaving where it was. Informal outdoor ranges would have brass going back many years, and it could be interesting just to see how far back some appeared to go.
Occasional reloaders would pick through it, but I never saw people collecting it for people other than themselves in small quantities.
Even most reloaders didn't seem to consider it valuable as they were not hoarding it, just looking for oddball calibers they could use themselves.

Then when the economy had trouble people realized it could be recycled for money, others realized they could sell some to reloaders for money, and the next thing you knew so many people were trying to take all the brass that ranges started creating rules against taking brass.
Places with years of accumlated brass a foot deep were being shoveled clean.
When those disappeared people were out scrounging and taking brass from more sparse areas.

It is funny, something once seen entirely as a waste product by most shooters, and valued only by the small number of reloaders that could acquire almost all they wanted for free at any time is now a sparse commodity that ranges covet and shooters wish to retain ownership of, even when they have no intent to use it themselves. 9mm brass even, 9x19 brass was considered the most worthless of all, so common anyone had all they would ever need or want sitting free at ranges everywhere and reloading it was generally considered a waste of time since it was the most competitively priced inexpensive centerfire round out there.

j1
July 8, 2013, 12:28 PM
Good that you did not argue with the old fool cause then it gets hard to tell who is the fool. Good move, sir. Thanks for the post too.

I would not have believed it if you had not posted it either.

mcdonl
July 8, 2013, 12:31 PM
Geeze, make sure you never drop a gun or equipment near this guy... given his logic it is "fair game"....

Furncliff
July 8, 2013, 12:35 PM
The old fart is just trying to supplement his BS social security check and he may also be on the verge of dementia. Have some pity.

jcwit
July 8, 2013, 12:37 PM
I collect brass at the range I frequent. BUT, If others are there I always ask, never ever but in and start collecting.

Actually I don't collect much anymore as I have way more than I'll ever need, and at times give some to friends who are in need.

JSH1
July 8, 2013, 01:02 PM
I shoot at a public range located in a wildlife management area. The rifle / pistol range is littered with brass from people who shoot and then just walk away leaving their mess for the next guy. The shotgun range is even worse with more empty hulls than gravel. As much as litterbugs bother me I would equally angry if some guy was trying to catch my brass in the air. That is equally out of line.

Agsalaska
July 8, 2013, 01:47 PM
When I first saw your post, I expected it all to rhyme.






That being said, that would really piss me off.

Carl N. Brown
July 8, 2013, 01:56 PM
I have never seen behavior like that at the club I belong to.

I collect my brass. I collect cold brass abandoned by shooters who have left. In picking up my brass, finding brass of active shooters mixed in, I place their brass that I picked up on their bench as a courtesy.

I feel it only ceases to be your property if you abandon it.

Potatohead
July 8, 2013, 02:03 PM
No doubt on the rhyming- nice indentions ! I thought it was a limerick, or a haiku :)

Elm Creek Smith
July 8, 2013, 02:05 PM
I'm 61, and I'd have asked him to stay right there and switched to my Mini-14 with steel-cased ammo....

Some people...

ECS

Sent from my little slice of Heaven.

Deer_Freak
July 8, 2013, 02:07 PM
I am not taking up for the brass rat. It just pisses me off that things are so tight for people on a fixed income they have to to pick up scrap to make ends meet. Brass pays pretty good right now. My wife took two coffee cans of centerfire brass to the scrap yard and got enough for two nice pizzas. They would have given her more if I had knocked the primers out of the brass.

Potatohead
July 8, 2013, 02:09 PM
I got a small windfall of ammunition

Small hell. Thats more like hitting the lottery nowadays!

Spade5
July 8, 2013, 02:17 PM
If it had been RC I would say you got off light. My gut feeling is it is better to stay on his good side.

stompah
July 8, 2013, 02:21 PM
Fixed income? Did the guy say he was collecting it because he is too poor to eat & shoot? There is a better chance that money isn't an issue for this guy.

I would have switched to .22 and shot off a few hundred rounds.

Arkansas Paul
July 8, 2013, 02:21 PM
I am not taking up for the brass rat. It just pisses me off that things are so tight for people on a fixed income they have to to pick up scrap to make ends meet.

There is nothing in the OP that suggests that he was looking to pick up scrap to make ends meet. As far as we know, he was just some fool wanting to stock up on brass. The fact is, whether he was or not is irrelevant in this thread. Someone was stealing property. There is not a situation where that is okay.

Potatohead
July 8, 2013, 02:21 PM
Someone should post that pic i saw a day or two ago that has a guy dumpster diving! Hilarious

tyeo098
July 8, 2013, 02:43 PM
I scrounge brass all the time if its in my stall, or if its mine that flings out behind me somewhere.

If it belongs to someone else I'll always ask and offer then to shoot some of my guns in return. (I usually have the fun stuff ;))

FROGO207
July 8, 2013, 03:08 PM
I have scrounged more than my fair share of brass in the past for sure. BUT that was before it was popular to do so mostly. Also a bit of common sense (I know-I know) and just plain respect for others property goes a long way with such things. I do feel like an armed raccoon while pawing through the trash barrels at the range for brass these days.:D

rajbcpa
July 8, 2013, 03:14 PM
I got this twice at an indoor range where the range officer swept up my brass as I am shooting. I said I reload and want to keep my brass. He said, you have to tell me that before you start shooting and that the brass he already swept up is now his.

Yikes - what a mutt....

lechiffre
July 8, 2013, 03:16 PM
starts running a brass catcher.

You know the thing I'm talking about,,,
It looks like a kitchen whisk mounted on a wood rod,,,
Anyways he's actually trying to get my brass while I'm shooting.

That's when it's time to switch from the CZ-75 to the P-38.

brickeyee
July 8, 2013, 04:07 PM
I had a 'partner' of another shooter (turns out it was his mother) start collecting my .38 super comp (he was shooting factory 9mm) while I was still shooting at an indoor private (pay) range.

I had them ejected with no refund of the time they had paid for.

rondog
July 8, 2013, 04:07 PM
Someone should post that pic i saw a day or two ago that has a guy dumpster diving! Hilarious

Happy to oblige!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/funnies/dumpsterdiver.jpg

I too, am a brass rat, as I've confessed here many times. But only brass that's abandoned! Picking up brass anywhere near someone that's shooting is apalling behavior. I won't dive into dumpsters, but I WILL dump out trash cans if they're not gross or too full and heavy. Of course, all the trash goes back in, I pick out the good brass and put the can back the way it was.

Brass gathering is a disease, I tell ya. I've already got more than I can ever get filled up, but I'll still gather up every good case I can find. I don't mess with aluminum, steel or Berdan cases, or rimfires. Not after scrap metal, just reloadable stuff. If it's something I don't load, I'll hang onto it until I see someone looking for some, and I'll usually pass it along for free unless I have a lot of it, then I just ask for postage.

My brass stash and my reloads are becoming a storage problem too. Makes me question my own sanity. My wife gave up on questioning it long ago. But it keeps me outta bars.....

Oh, and I have one of these, a Brass Mower. Let me tell ya, for a fat old man with a bad back, these things are AWESOME! Well worth the money, get one. It'll pick up .22's to 12 ga. shells, even the plastic shot wads.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/ammo%20and%20reloading/brassmower.jpg

Arkansas Paul
July 8, 2013, 04:14 PM
Brass gathering is a disease, I tell ya.

And I'm not aware of a cure.

SharpsDressedMan
July 8, 2013, 04:36 PM
Don't hate us all. I scrounge brass, but only that left behind after shooter leave, or if they offer it to me when they are on the range. That guy needed to GO, and learn some manners.

Cosmoline
July 8, 2013, 04:41 PM
The rule of thumb I follow is it's mine till I abandon it by packing up and leaving without getting it. After that it goes to the property owner by default. Then, if the property owner doesn't care, others can come get it. The local range has clamped down on it and forbidden anyone from picking up brass that isn't from their own firearm.

Over the years I've run into "brass rats" who actually create safety problems by darting around tables during live fire.

ferges99
July 8, 2013, 04:42 PM
Quote: I am not taking up for the brass rat. It just pisses me off that things are so tight for people on a fixed income they have to to pick up scrap to make ends meet. Brass pays pretty good right now. My wife took two coffee cans of centerfire brass to the scrap yard and got enough for two nice pizzas. They would have given her more if I had knocked the primers out of the brass.


The primers are brass too.

aarondhgraham
July 8, 2013, 05:33 PM
Ours is an outdoor range,,,
No lanes or dividers to speak of,,,
We just line ourselves up with a target and shoot away.

I spoke quietly with the park ranger,,,
I told him I didn't want to get the guy arrested,,,
I just wanted him to stop picking up my brass while I was shooting it.

Hello rondog: That doo-hickey is exactly what the man was using,,,
Even on our dirt surfaces it was picking up brass rather well.

I'm used to walking on a sea of spent rimfire brass,,,
I once asked the club president about maybe salvaging it for cash,,,
No one in the club seemed too awful interested so I suggested the Cub Scouts.

Again, no one seemed interested in that venture,,,
I have a friend with a daughter who is in the Girl Scouts,,,
Someday I'll take a van-load of the girls out there with rakes and buckets,,,
Maybe they can rake up enough to get some new gear for their camp-outs ands other endeavors.

Aarond

.

guyfromohio
July 8, 2013, 05:44 PM
I hate brass rats and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a dude walks in making my brass his take
And flaunts it in your face....

ID-shooting
July 8, 2013, 05:47 PM
We have a guy at the public range who hangs out if a van all day driving back and forth picking up brass, sometimes while you are shooting. I have a post about this somewhere. The guy a grungy and looks homeless. I imagine he thinks it is his job and gets all in your face about stealing your cases. We have ranger to talk to but the county sheriff has stopped in a time or two.

JTHunter
July 8, 2013, 05:59 PM
Rondog - that "Mower" looks like what my neighbor uses to pick up the sweetgum "balls" his tree drops!

tarakian
July 8, 2013, 06:00 PM
I had a guy stand behind me at an IDPA match picking up my brass as it hit the dirt. This at a club that typically only allows you to pick up brass after the match is over. Needless to say I was less than enthusiastic.

rhinoh
July 8, 2013, 07:17 PM
Should have asked the brass snatcher for his car keys....after all his car was on the ground..:)

tekarra
July 8, 2013, 08:47 PM
In total agreement with you. Unfortunately rude people are everywhere and make life unpleasant.

evan price
July 8, 2013, 08:54 PM
Next time ask if he wants the bullets too...lead, ya know.

witchhunter
July 8, 2013, 09:34 PM
I shoot a lot out in the desert where a lot of shooters frequent. Lately, I have noticed rake marks in the dirt where people have raked up brass. I usually pick up when I leave, but I have never raked!!! I hate the steel cases and steel shotgun hulls that you can't reload. Everyone leaves em where they fall.

tactikel
July 8, 2013, 09:44 PM
I always run a red sharpie across the head of my .45 ACP brass. No problems so far, I have had to state " the red marked brass is mine" a couple of times.
BTW I have scrounged brass for 50 years. :D

rondog
July 8, 2013, 10:02 PM
JTHunter - same thing as a Nut Wizard, just a little smaller and made for brass.

ridgerunner1965
July 8, 2013, 10:11 PM
rude, rude and more rude! im glad i have my own range. ive never been to a public range and prob never will.but i do feel for yu guys that have no choice.jeez at least wait until the shooter gets in his truck?

life here in hillbilly heaven cant even be explained!

kimbershot
July 8, 2013, 10:19 PM
don't really have brass rats at my indoor range. mostly clean freaks who sweep up all the brass (mine included) and dump it into a bucket. i always intercede--as i reload. always have folks offer up their empty brass (45acp) as most don't reload--not yet anyway.:confused: well, i have enough to shoot till i'm to old to shoot.:eek:

G'dale Mike
July 8, 2013, 10:26 PM
It aint just rude, it's dangerous. No one should be approaching that close to a shooter on a hot line. If someone obviously aint there to shoot, and especially is just annoying people, he should be made to leave. I would think insurance agent would hit the ceiling if they knew a basic vagrant was hanging around the firing line , moving about the shooters. And if i payed to shoot, i'd be REAL upset someone was distracting me while i'm trying to shoot.

HKGuns
July 8, 2013, 11:40 PM
I'm a brass rat, however, before I even got close to any of your brass I would ask if you reload and if it was ok to pick it up. But, I usually don't even go that far and just let it stay on the ground. The guy you ran into was a brass thief, not a brass rat.

gspn
July 9, 2013, 12:05 AM
I hate brass rats and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a dude walks in making my brass his take
And flaunts it in your face....

I didn't want this thread to end without someone telling you...that was funny.:D

Now the tune is stuck in my head...

gamestalker
July 9, 2013, 12:07 AM
I know exactly what your talking about, and it irritates the living day lights out of me as well.

I recently located a nice out of the way place to shoot that I thought wasn't at all well known, at least judging by the lack of brass and target junk it seemed so. So a couple weeks ago I'm driving into the spot, and I see this SUV, but no one was in it. Once I was set up I didn't want to start shooting until I knew who was where, and then I see these two guys walking out from behind the dirt back stop. The first thing they said before even extending a greeting was, can we have your brass, and just so you know, were going to be in the area scouring for brass. Both of them went on to say that neither shoots or even owns firearms, they just collect and sell brass as recycle metal. I politely informed them that I reload, so no, you can't pick up any brass in my shooting area, as it may be mine your picking up. I went on to tell them that after I'm finished shooting, and have picked up my brass, the area is all yours. They packed up and left with little more being said.

But yes, it does kind of ruffle my feathers a bit. I'm running into more and more of this lately, and it irks me cause good brass is being sold off as scrap metal.

GS

rondog
July 9, 2013, 12:11 AM
But yes, it does kind of ruffle my feathers a bit. I'm running into more and more of this lately, and it irks me cause good brass is being sold off as scrap metal.


One way or the other, it's just like picking up money! I'd rather see people scour ranges for brass than tear the copper pipes and wiring out of new or vacant houses. Which will never stop anyway.

mljdeckard
July 9, 2013, 12:26 AM
So, according to this Rolling Stones reject, to keep your own brass, you're supposed to fire a shot, and catch the brass before it hits the floor?

I pick up my brass. I don't mind other people who pick up theirs. I roll my eyes at the guys who give themselves the benefit of every doubt for whether or not it was theirs. I don't mind the range guys taking whatever is left. If someone took mine before I could get it, I wouldn't start a fight over it. (I might tell them; "Good luck, it was cracking when I reloaded it.") But if someone who ISN'T EVEN SHOOTING thinks they can take it, that's weapons-grade BS. No-no way, Uh-uh, forget it.

(I also want to know if it was RC. :D

Lost Sheep
July 9, 2013, 12:43 AM
The old fart is just trying to supplement his BS social security check and he may also be on the verge of dementia. Have some pity.
Both my parents have (one had, cured now) dementia. If the dementia is so bad that it gives rise to remarks like "and you can't stop me", he may need to be living in a supervised facility.

I will leave to Eric Holder's tender mercies whether the "brass rat's" 2nd Amendment rights should be infringed. It is a small step from rude to confrontational. How far is it then to dangerous? I am not saying this guy's behavior rises to that level, but if that behavior is corroborated by others, he might need banning from the range as a hazard, or, at least, as an object lesson.

I apologize for the judgmental attitude of paragraph 2 of this post, but it is how I feel.

Kudos to the O.P. for asserting property (and range) rights in a well-modulated and appropriate (as well as well-documenting) fashion. It helps drive home the points that 1) YES! I CAN "stop you". and 2 informs the interloper that such behavior is unacceptable not only to yourself, but the range. It's a wake-up call he sorely needed.

On behalf of all range shooters everywhere, Thanks.

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep
July 9, 2013, 12:45 AM
I know exactly what your talking about, and it irritates the living day lights out of me as well.

I recently located a nice out of the way place to shoot that I thought wasn't at all well known, at least judging by the lack of brass and target junk it seemed so. So a couple weeks ago I'm driving into the spot, and I see this SUV, but no one was in it. Once I was set up I didn't want to start shooting until I knew who was where, and then I see these two guys walking out from behind the dirt back stop. The first thing they said before even extending a greeting was, can we have your brass, and just so you know, were going to be in the area scouring for brass. Both of them went on to say that neither shoots or even owns firearms, they just collect and sell brass as recycle metal. I politely informed them that I reload, so no, you can't pick up any brass in my shooting area, as it may be mine your picking up. I went on to tell them that after I'm finished shooting, and have picked up my brass, the area is all yours. They packed up and left with little more being said.

But yes, it does kind of ruffle my feathers a bit. I'm running into more and more of this lately, and it irks me cause good brass is being sold off as scrap metal.

GS
Did you think to suggest they could make more money if they sold the re-usable brass to reloaders in the newspaper classifieds?

Just trying to turn a miserable situation a little bit for the better.

On the other hand, as I think about it. What brass were they looking for BEHIND the backstop? Looks squirrelly to me, but I cannot fathom how unless they were planning to dig up the used lead and copper. If they left the berm in good condition that might be OK.

Lost Sheep

Mat, not doormat
July 9, 2013, 01:08 AM
Reading the title, I was like, "What'd MIT do now?"

But yeah, that's totally unacceptable. I'll happily pick up other folks' brass, once they leave, or otherwise indicate that they don't want it. Before that, though, I'd call it theft.

Willie Sutton
July 9, 2013, 01:13 AM
There's a special word for that behaviour. It's called stealing.

I can think of several of my rifles where each piece of brass is worth $5.00 or more (think double rifle nitro-express brass). The brass is my property. Take it from under my feet and it's no different than taking a screwdriver from my range bag.

It's not impolite, or bad manners. It's a crime.


Willie

.

morcey2
July 9, 2013, 01:50 AM
it's no different than taking a screwdriver from my range bag.

.

Maybe if you weren't drinking on the range, you wouldn't have trouble catching your brass...:D

Yes, it's late.

wolfe
July 9, 2013, 01:52 AM
The "brass rat" in question isn't too hard up for money. I just looked that tool up and the whole package is over $60....

Incidentally I'm considering ordering one..., pretty cool tool

Lex Luthier
July 9, 2013, 08:28 AM
Clean brass gets about two bucks a pound around here. I do not approve of scavengers.

The next time I get to meet one, I might just write him up an invoice and get some money from him first.

UKWildcats
July 9, 2013, 09:24 AM
A couple of years ago at the Private Range I belong to the guy next to me was picking up 22lr brass -- Heck I was giving him mine also -- He indicitated that he was getting somewhere around $100 for a 5 gallon bucket.


The rudeness of people is ever increasing -- People make up their own rules in their head on behavior and justifly their actions as being acceptable. Makes me want to move out to the middle of nowhere to get away from these type of people.


UK

x_wrench
July 9, 2013, 09:27 AM
i am a full fledged scrounger / pack rat. and even I take offense to what he was doing. if you walk away from the brass, as in leave the premisis, then its up for grabs. but if your still on the property, it is still yours to recover. he was WAY out of line, ESPECIALLY grabbing it for someone else, or to sell.

Manny
July 9, 2013, 09:41 AM
I shoot on a private range and have never run into someone like that, but would have to work real hard to treat the situation as well as the OP as besides being extremely rude I consider his behavior to be outright thievery.

I do admire that tool he was using though and may invest in one as I figure policing your own mess is just part of being a good citizen. Besides useful tools are another addiction of mine.:D

Dean1818
July 9, 2013, 09:43 AM
Most of the ranges in Dallas will allow you to pick up your own brass, but they view that as a profit source, so anything left is THEIRS...... (Which I have no problem with)

There are a few that seem indifferent

There is one range that I get the most brass ( pistol) from, they dont care.

When I am low, I always go there



But, its for my own reloading use.... I dont need 50,000 cases

jim243
July 9, 2013, 10:19 AM
I have mixed feeling about this. I am a re-loader and at times a brass rat, but only if I ask the people shooting if they mind if I recover their brass and only brass that is not directly behind them.

You are correct he should not have been collecting as you were shooting it is both unsafe and inconsiderate of other peoples property.

As I see it there is two different protocols, one for indoor ranges and an other for outdoor ranges.

On an outdoor range you use to be able to find brass laying all over, not any more. Even non-reloaders keep their own brass. Many a time when I am next to new shooters I will ask first if they are reloaders and if they mind that I recover their brass, often they will collect their brass and give it to me. If your polite and show respect it will often go a long way in building your supply of rifle brass.(I don't pick up pistol brass on a outdoor range, unless it is my own.)

At a indoor range the issue gets a bit muddier since it is harder to identify who's brass is who's. And I will police my own brass after about 10 shots and often recover other's brass as well. Most of what I shoot is 45 ACP indoors so it is easy to identify that which is mine. Often I will get a good amount of 9 mm mixed in with my own brass and some 40 S&W if LEO's have been shooting before I get there. It's gotten to the point that I do not even recover my own 9 mm brass anymore, I have too much of it to even load.

As to the old gentleman that was taking your brass, I do feel sorry for him since it would appear that he was doing it to supplement his income. If he was shooting and recovering his own brass, I might say he was a reloader. But since this appears to be the only activity he was doing, I would say he was doing it to produce income. Being a softy that I am, I would have asked him to wait till I was finished shooting and that he could have all the brass that was laying on the ground.

But that's just me.
Jim

scythefwd
July 9, 2013, 11:27 AM
I've scrounged others brass at the range.. But I always ask during a target trade out if they reload. Usually its a no, and usually they hand me the stuff they already policed up.

Hanzo581
July 9, 2013, 11:36 AM
As to the old gentleman that was taking your brass, I do feel sorry for him since it would appear that he was doing it to supplement his income. If he was shooting and recovering his own brass, I might say he was a reloader. But since this appears to be the only activity he was doing, I would say he was doing it to produce income. Being a softy that I am, I would have asked him to wait till I was finished shooting and that he could have all the brass that was laying on the ground.

But that's just me.
Jim

If he is competent and able enough to swoop in and steal brass with a catcher I am sure he could find a job somewhere that pays more than that brass would net him.

4thestars
July 9, 2013, 12:37 PM
I always run a red sharpie across the head of my .45 ACP brass. No problems so far, I have had to state " the red marked brass is mine" a couple of times.
BTW I have scrounged brass for 50 years. :D

I use the red sharpie stripe as well. Makes it easier, especially at the indoor ranges.

Arizona_Mike
July 9, 2013, 12:55 PM
I shoot a lot and never had this happen to me. I guess I miss out on so many things in life being 6'3" and muscular. On the other hand I have the freedom to be a really nice guy.

Those Brass Brooms are great, even in sand. I used one after a training class recently and I plan to buy one.

Mike

Ret.CWO
July 9, 2013, 01:00 PM
I am a hand loader, I away's ask if the shooter is going to keep his brass. If he/she gives me permission to gather the empties I do so. If they want to keep thier own brass I sometimes help them gather it. It's only common curtisy.

brickeyee
July 9, 2013, 03:24 PM
The only brass I willingly leave is so used it would NOT be a good idea to reload it.

Potatohead
July 9, 2013, 06:39 PM
The only brass I willingly leave is so used it would NOT be a good idea to reload it.
I sometimes wonder about this when I'm picking up brass that someone else left.

jcwit
July 9, 2013, 06:47 PM
Its still worth bucks at the scrap yard. I know people who collect .22 rimfire to turn in, and yes its worth it.

russ69
July 9, 2013, 07:59 PM
On the other hand...I went to my local range, there was only one guy there. He had his brass spread out six ways from Sunday. I was shooting at the other end of the range and when I went to get the brass mower, he got all indignant and told me not to gather his brass. I was just trying to clean my dirty station about 30 feet down the line but his brass was in about a 15 foot circle, hundreds of rounds. I could not push the brass mower from the side of the hutch without picking up a few of his errant shells. His shells covered about 4 stations past his and all the way off the cement pad that is 20 feet wide. It looked like he had been there a long time. I did my best not to pick up his shells but I think I scooped up a few because there was no way to get the mower without pushing past his scattered shells.
So a little range courtesy would have worked if he had policed up his mess from time to time and left a walkway back to the hutch. He was pretty much just pretending he was the only user of the entire range.

thump_rrr
July 9, 2013, 08:17 PM
I go to a private indoor range which is by no means cheap.
One day I brought a 1911 and some mags to do some reliability testing.
I had 8 blue MTM boxes full of .45 ACP sitting in my stall.
I loaded up all my mags and began shooting. After emptying all 6 mags I turned around to pick up my brass to see 2 20 something guys, who were shooting 9mm a couple of stalls down, picking it up!!!

I guess the look on my face said everything so one of the guys then asks "will you be keeping these?"

My reply was does it look like I'm shooting factory ammo?

They just dropped everything and walked back to their stall.

BobTheTomato
July 9, 2013, 11:22 PM
I am guessing the old man in the original post felt as though most people would stop him or try to get physical with a 70 year old man. One of the public ranges in the Dover PA area had a woman like this who would take brass. She started asking permission after some people called the game warden and the police.

Gaucho Gringo
July 10, 2013, 12:39 AM
This is why I have a 9 x 12 heavy canvas painters tarp in my shooting kit. Put it down every time I shoot. I originally did it to make brass pickup easy but now it marks my shooting space. Anyone who violates I will raise holy hell with. If someone wants to come after a 62 yo man who has had cerebral palsy from birth who almost died at birth and who is also permanently disabled after working from the time he was 8 to 50 yo has another think coming. I don't initiate trouble but I haven't gotten this far in life by backing down either.

rondog
July 10, 2013, 01:48 AM
Man, intentionally leaving worn-out brass for someone else to blow himself up with is just cold and inconsiderate. If you KNOW it's no good, take it home to your scrap bucket.

Reloadron
July 10, 2013, 07:26 AM
Common courtesy would dictate to ask someone shooting if they want their brass. Even if a shooter doesn't want their brass courtesy would dictate that you wait until the shooter is done shooting before starting to pick up their brass. If someone starts lurking behind me be it indoor or outdoor range, grabbing my brass we are going to have issues.

At my indoor range they stay on top of the brass and when brass is left by a shooter it is swept under the stall gates and down range. Shooters who want their brass simply pick it up.

Brass I no longer want I generally police up and dispose of in the trash containers left for that purpose. That being at my outdoor range. If a brass rat ask I tell them it has been reloaded and fired X times and I no longer want or trust it for another loading.

Personally I don't generally pick up brass other than my own unless I happen to know the shooter and they tell me they don't reload and if I want their once fired brass then help myself. Even then I wait till they are done shooting.

Ron

HexHead
July 10, 2013, 07:47 AM
As to the old gentleman that was taking your brass, I do feel sorry for him since it would appear that he was doing it to supplement his income. If he was shooting and recovering his own brass, I might say he was a reloader. But since this appears to be the only activity he was doing, I would say he was doing it to produce income. Being a softy that I am, I would have asked him to wait till I was finished shooting and that he could have all the brass that was laying on the ground.


What he was doing was stealing, plain & simple. Would you be so forgiving if he was breaking into cars or robbing the gas station to supplement his income?

Arkansas Paul
July 10, 2013, 12:43 PM
Man, intentionally leaving worn-out brass for someone else to blow himself up with is just cold and inconsiderate.

If you use range pick up brass without a good visual inspection, you're asking for trouble. It doesn't take much to see if a case is dangerously worn out. If the neck isn't split and there's no ring around the base, shoot it. If there is, scrap bucket.

gym
July 10, 2013, 12:48 PM
I am sure he went to picking up cans when asked to leave the range. That just sounds like a passive aggressive old codger. Too bad that's where this administration has gotten us to.

Potatohead
July 10, 2013, 12:53 PM
This is why I have a 9 x 12 heavy canvas painters tarp in my shooting kit. Put it down every time I shoot. I originally did it to make brass pickup easy but now it marks my shooting space. Anyone who violates I will raise holy hell with. If someone wants to come after a 62 yo man who has had cerebral palsy from birth who almost died at birth and who is also permanently disabled after working from the time he was 8 to 50 yo has another think coming. I don't initiate trouble but I haven't gotten this far in life by backing down either.
Get em Gringo! I love it...

Potatohead
July 10, 2013, 12:57 PM
I gotta say, I don't pick up anyones brass until I know they've left, which means they don't want it. I would feel weird asking some dude if I could have his brass..

bannockburn
July 10, 2013, 01:11 PM
Typically I do as Gaucho Gringo does and use one of those blue nylon tarps to catch my brass. Makes finding and collecting it a whole lot easier and pretty effectively defines my area of operation as far as spent brass is concerned.

DonnyBrook13
July 10, 2013, 01:15 PM
There's a brass rat who prowls my range here in Grand Junction, CO -- looks and soundsseveral bricks shy of a load, like maybe he took a round to the braincase at one time. "Are you keepin' da bullets?" he asks. One day at the range another guy was gathering brass and told me about an encounter with this retarded -- excuse me, mentally challenged -- brass rat, who seemed to think it was his private harvesting ground. "I'll shoot you!" he threatened. The guy reported him to the ranger, who eventually found the brass rat, who denied it all. So it was a he said/she said thing.

Kind of scary, a borderline moron with a gun threatening people gathering "his" brass.

Reloadron
July 10, 2013, 01:26 PM
If you use range pick up brass without a good visual inspection, you're asking for trouble. It doesn't take much to see if a case is dangerously worn out. If the neck isn't split and there's no ring around the base, shoot it. If there is, scrap bucket.
I have to agree with that. While rather than leave it lay I place it in the containers. I do see people digging in the containers. No clue if they want it for scrap brass or they are looking for reloadable brass. Regardless, any reloader with God given brains wil inspect the brass and know what to look for.

Just My Take
Ron

Claude Clay
July 10, 2013, 01:57 PM
mines a private-card entry club. our rules are to police your mess:
most of us tend to leave it cleaner than when we got there.a great many re-loaders so as i shot some and than clean some. if i pick up others i put it on the table between us or behind us ( so as to not disturb their shooting). a good many will say 'keep it' and almost all will say 'thank you'
other than at friends with land and my club i haven't been to a public range in 5 years.

Arkansas Paul
July 10, 2013, 02:04 PM
^ My range is much the same. You're issued a key to the gate and the lock is changed every January with new keys issued at the yearly meeting. It was stressed at the orientation that you must police your brass and if you're not going to keep it, put it in designated buckets where other members are encouraged to take what they need. I've only been a member for about 7 months, but it has been much like you described. I've never had a bad experience with anyone, and most of the time, had friendly conversation with folks. I don't think such nonsense would last long where I shoot.

rondog
July 10, 2013, 02:15 PM
There's a brass rat who prowls my range here in Grand Junction, CO -- looks and soundsseveral bricks shy of a load, like maybe he took a round to the braincase at one time. "Are you keepin' da bullets?" he asks. One day at the range another guy was gathering brass and told me about an encounter with this retarded -- excuse me, mentally challenged -- brass rat, who seemed to think it was his private harvesting ground. "I'll shoot you!" he threatened. The guy reported him to the ranger, who eventually found the brass rat, who denied it all. So it was a he said/she said thing.

Kind of scary, a borderline moron with a gun threatening people gathering "his" brass.

Hah! Was that out at the Book Cliffs range north of the airport? I used to visit there once in awhile when I had work trips to Grand Junction, and I ran into a young guy kinda like that out there. I wouldn't really call him "challenged", but he sure was goofy. Had a woman and baby with him, and told me some outrageous numbers of how much he made selling brass. I was cordial and polite, and they eventually left. But I made sure one of my M1 carbines was ready to dance.

Arizona_Mike
July 10, 2013, 03:02 PM
Some brass rats might be swagers. I plan on getting swaging dies to make .224 from .22LR cases and .40 from 9mm cases before the next shortage.

http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40from9.jpg
http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40buldge028.jpg

Mike

rondog
July 10, 2013, 03:07 PM
Well now, THAT'S interesting.....

Dean1818
July 10, 2013, 03:18 PM
Some brass rats might be swagers. I plan on getting swaging dies to make .224 from .22LR cases and .40 from 9mm cases before the next shortage.

http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40from9.jpg
http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40buldge028.jpg

Mike
Huh?

Mike OTDP
July 10, 2013, 03:49 PM
Brass catchers, folks. Buy a brass catcher, and end all dispute.

Or you can use Advanced Caseless Ammo, like I do. :-)

blarby
July 10, 2013, 03:53 PM
People approaching a live round possessing line can find themselves in a very awkward dance from time to time.....

I'm glad you had a lot of restraint.

I'm a scavver too, but I at least wait till no one is around :D

0to60
July 10, 2013, 04:19 PM
Some brass rats might be swagers. I plan on getting swaging dies to make .224 from .22LR cases and .40 from 9mm cases before the next shortage.

http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40from9.jpg
http://www.realworldpracticalshooters.com/ar15/40buldge028.jpg

Mike

You can do that?? I learn something new every day.

Do you need to use special load data? Does a brass case wear the riflings out faster than a copper jacket?

Arkansas Paul
July 10, 2013, 04:23 PM
Buy a brass catcher, and end all dispute.

On the other hand, people could keep their paws off my property and there would be no dispute.

481
July 10, 2013, 04:33 PM
On the other hand, people could keep their paws off my property and there would be no dispute.

With you on that one, Paul. No need for a brass catcher. It's our property 'til we relinquish it.

Using the logic that some of these folks (brass rats) seem to follow, if I drop a magazine (or my gun) it would become theirs, too.

Seems like decency and politeness have gone out the window these days. Welcome to the "age of incivility".

herrwalther
July 11, 2013, 01:23 AM
I am a brass rat. I freely admit it. But I follow rules about how I scoop up brass to use for whatever reason. I never do it when someone is shooting. And I always ask the shooter if they mind, or wait until they leave. If they do mind and keep the brass for themselves, I offer help to save them time. I'm a brass rat with class :D

Lex Luthier
July 11, 2013, 08:27 AM
You are asking someone if they "mind" you running a recycled brass business on THEIR investment.

What exactly would you pay for this free investment? By all rights, you ought to be willing to compensate every shooter/ supplier in fair wholesale market value of the material. Simple, and that is taking the High Road.

beatledog7
July 11, 2013, 09:42 AM
You are asking someone if they "mind" you running a recycled brass business on THEIR investment.

What exactly would you pay for this free investment? By all rights, you ought to be willing to compensate every shooter/ supplier in fair wholesale market value of the material. Simple, and that is taking the High Road.

While it might seem very "high road" to offer a shooter money for his brass, there are a couple of points to be made:

In the places where I shoot, every shooter is charged with policing his area of brass, ammo boxes, etc. when he's done. Shooters "own" it all both literally and figuratively until relieved of ownership, and 75-90% (unscientific estimate based on casual observation) of them accomplish that by binning the lot, whether into the brass bucket or the trash can.

If I inquire regarding the disposition of his brass, then offer to police his area for him, just about every shooter allows me to assume ownership of it in both ways. In return, he gets to depart without the trouble of picking up brass. I'm giving him back his most valuable assets--his time and energy. That seems like appropriate "compensation" to me.

I've assumed cleanup responsibility from him in exchange for his brass. He has agreed to the proffered terms. Thus, he has been compensated.

Blackstone
July 11, 2013, 10:55 AM
You are asking someone if they "mind" you running a recycled brass business on THEIR investment.

What exactly would you pay for this free investment? By all rights, you ought to be willing to compensate every shooter/ supplier in fair wholesale market value of the material. Simple, and that is taking the High Road.

Many people simply don't want their brass or plan to do anything to reuse or recover value from it. They are still required to clear their firing point up, so they should see it as a win-win situation for someone else to take the brass off their hands.

effengee
July 11, 2013, 02:31 PM
This is among the many reasons I love my backyard range. The area behind my house was one of the selling points. It's not grand and fancy, but it is certainly functional. I like that I can shoot whatever I want at whatever I want, and nobody can get upset. The kids have been "trained" to pick up the brass. Most gets saved for reloading, the rest gets put in its respective recycling bin.

I have shot at club ranges, but thankfully never encountered anybody like this. Age or reasoning makes no difference, with the cost and scarcity of ammo these days, I probably would have called the police and reported a theft!

herrwalther
July 11, 2013, 02:34 PM
You are asking someone if they "mind" you running a recycled brass business on THEIR investment.

What exactly would you pay for this free investment? By all rights, you ought to be willing to compensate every shooter/ supplier in fair wholesale market value of the material. Simple, and that is taking the High Road.

Rather ludicrous jump of conclusion don't you think? I am not running a "business" from recycled and discarded brass. My purposes for the brass are usually reloading or I give it to my wife that she makes earrings, rosaries etc out of for her to wear. Mostly using .22LR brass because who (other than high volume competition shooters) is going to even remotely attempt to reload .22LR when it is cheaper just to buy factory ammo? Also at the range where I shoot, their is no requirement to police your brass. The range cleans it up occasionally and discards it. So I am helping the range and the shooter in some way, either by taking their UNWANTED brass that has no value to them after it is fired or by helping them clean up so they can reload or do whatever.

mljdeckard
July 11, 2013, 02:51 PM
I see no grounds for them to require compensation for it if they were planning on leaving it there anyway.

Al Thompson
July 11, 2013, 03:08 PM
I'm going to call this one as asked and answered. :)

If you enjoyed reading about "I hate Brass Rats,,," here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!