Boycotts work?


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X-Rap
July 8, 2013, 05:36 PM
I've seen a couple news stories in which Jim Carrey has softened his rhetoric against gun owners. Could it be that his words are beginning to hit him in the wallet.
Hollywood has had a summer of flops in general and I know that speaking for myself and the close friends that I can speak for the anti gun entertainment industry has been off limits for quite some time.

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Kiln
July 8, 2013, 06:41 PM
Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Some companies and actors are going to be hit hard and others won't be touched for their views. It depends largely on the people who watch their movies or buy their products.

So many actors took part in the anti gun agenda after Sandy Hook that I doubt even half of them will feel any sort of damage because of it.

splattergun
July 8, 2013, 08:06 PM
I suppose it depends on what the definition of "work" is. I've been boycotting Levi Straus & Co. for over 2 decades due to their heavy financial support of various anti-gun campaigns, but I still see a large portion of shooters at the range wearing Levis. If you were to ask those Levis wearers if they are aware of LS&Co's support of the Brady campaign, you would likely get a big MYOB and perhaps a finger. But boy, mention the name of some gun-hating action hero hypocrite actor and stand back to watch the foul language fly.


Do boycotts work? I dunno. But I DO know that the few hundred dollars of MY money spent on clothing each year don't go to LS&Co., it goes to companies that support 2A, or those that at least remain neutral.

Double Naught Spy
July 8, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jim Carrey has movies flop because they were bad, not because of any sort of boycott. Wonderstone had mediocre reviews at best and K-A2 was even denounced by Carrey.

Sometimes movies are bad, but don't fool yourself into thinking that because movies have done poorly that there has been some sort of amazingly successful boycott at work.

Look at the reviews for the movies that are flopping. How many had great reviews because they were such well made, entertaining movies and how many didn't?

Did the Lone Ranger seem good to reviewers? It flopped at the box office. Nope, it had horrible reviews.

Jack the Giant Slayer? Poor reviews. It flopped.
Bullet to the Head? Poor reviews. It flopped.

Strangely, Oz Great and Powerful had mediocre reviews, but turned in 100% gross profits (gross profits matched production costs). It had a lot of appeal.
Ironman turned in 99.7% gross profits.
Monster U about 80% so far.
Hangover III, 42, Great Gatsby all over 99%. Man of Steel 92%.

So if you look at the successful movies, then the proclaimed boycott is an absolute failure. Movies aren't failing because a few gun owners aren't attending the theaters. They are failing generally because they are cruddy movies.

vamo
July 8, 2013, 08:59 PM
If I only consumed entertainment from sources that I agreed with I would have a very small selection to choose from.

X-Rap
July 8, 2013, 09:16 PM
I agree that Carrey quit being funny long ago so why is he being apologetic with gun owners.

hso
July 8, 2013, 10:35 PM
This is really a discussion instead of presenting a plan for others to follow so I'll move it to Activism Discussion.

Yes, boycotts work. They may not be particularly valuable against media sorts, but they certainly are when focused on businesses as we saw with the Great Eastern show this year.

Radagast
July 9, 2013, 12:46 AM
Boycotts work best when the company or product is related to the shooting sports.
IIRC S&Ws old owners were forced to sell the company for the value of the debt they owed from the original purchase, in effect for zero value, after they were boycotted for folding to the Clinton regimes 'gun control via law suit' policy.
The rantings from Elliot Spitzer at the time suggested that Glock and IIRC Sig were about to fold too, but the boycott and destruction of S&W sales made them rethink and refuse to sign.
Note this was a near total boycott by the shooting community. No thread on any forum could be started discussing S&W products without it being hammered by demands to follow the boycott. Some shooters dumped their S&Ws onto the used gun market to depress prices and make new S&Ws unsellable.
I was denounced for buying a new S&W, even though I am in a different country.

The Eastern Sports & Outdoor Show was another example, in this case the exhibitors boycotted the show after the organizers banned semi autos from being displayed. rather than risk a boycott by their buyers. The Show organizers eventually closed the show rather than fold to the boycott, a new show is being organized to replace it & the NSSF have fired the organizer from their role at the SHOT show.

Good behavior should be rewarded, the following companies are among those that pulled out of the E S & O show at great expense to themselves. If you have bucks to spend on products they deal in, check them out, and let their management know if you spend your shooting dollars with them because of this.

Nature Blinds
Cutting Edge Bullets
Lancaster Archery Supply
Atlantic Tactical
Boondock Outdoors
Whitetail Bosses
Trop Gun Shop
Dead Ringer Hunting
Domari Nolo Defense Consulting
Kinsey’s Outdoors
Direct Action Tactical
Hunters and Guides Connection
Cabela’s
Upper Canyon Outfitters
CanCooker
Zook Cabins
Full Circle Outdoors
The Warmbag
Drop Tine Outfitters
Northern Outdoor Lodge
Hunter Safety
System
Outdoor Edge Knives
Bowhunting.com
Major League Bowhunter
Eastern Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation
Foxpro Game Calls
Trijicon
Cold Steel
Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs

More data here:
http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/01/18/eastern-sports-and-outdoor-show-bans-modern-rifles-magazines/

Outside of the shooting industry, where a boycott can break a company, individual activism seems more useful. Politely letting the manager of a shop know that because of their 'no guns allowed sign' you will not be entering their premises anymore will often see a rethink when such signs are up to the managers discretion. Internet campaigns and GOA press releases? Not so much.
Again a reverse boycott also helps, when anti-gunners were pressuring Starbucks, shooters started letting the staff know that they were buying their coffee there because of the firearms neutral company policy.

TLDR:
We must police our own. Outside of our own we must be seen as the rational voice, not the strident enemies of reasoned discourse or a member of the perpetually
self righteous.
Examples: Nancy Pelosi is incapable of reaching anyone not already sharing her views.
Rand Paul publicly holds much more mainstream views than his father. Elected as a conservative he can appeal to the libertarian left. In two years he has probably done more to advance his fathers agenda than his father did in 20.
I'm not talking about the left right political spectrum, its the difference in approach, one worth emulating.

Double Naught Spy
July 9, 2013, 02:46 AM
Boycotts work best when the company or product is related to the shooting sports.

Right, outside of our limited community, we don't carry enough clout or organization to significantly impact things like the movie industry, auto parts chains, department store chains, malls, news media, cities, states, etc.

Eiji81
July 9, 2013, 05:33 AM
I believe boycotts work to an extent; not necessarily in movies/hollywood but more so in business and production. It will depend on the size and assets of the particular business or company.

A small company (whether firearms related or not) that is on the limit of failure can be pushed over the edge if only a few customers do not patronize it. This can be a gun shop, restaurant, store, or service. A larger company might not get affected much if its assets and contracts are large enough to overcome a boycott from a certain portion of customer base.

MrFaust
July 16, 2013, 02:00 AM
I did not know Levi's was anti gun. I like my Carhartt's better anyway.

Speedo66
July 16, 2013, 09:47 AM
It's funny how certain companies approach things. LL Bean started out as a hunting and fishing outfitter. Their old catalogs carried many supplies for both sports.

They became so PC that they no longer carry any hunting items in their general catalogs. To find any, you have to specifically request their separate hunting catalog. Pricy, but at least they still carry them. And sell their branded guns.

big boom
July 16, 2013, 10:28 AM
Levi's? Hmm. Never new that

Beentown
July 16, 2013, 11:38 AM
Levi's? Hmm. Never new that

Neither did I. No more Levis for this guy.

Deltaboy
July 16, 2013, 11:46 AM
They work and I Don't own any Levis except a denim duster I got back in 1986.

boom boom
July 16, 2013, 03:17 PM
Formal national boycotts, picketing, and protests, are mainly a PR tool that helps highlight your case. But, I suspect many more gun owners are engaging in individual level soft boycotts of virulent anti-gunning companies, individuals, etc. Dick's, I suspect, is regretting its actions after Sandy Hook. Their stance won't win them new customers while discouraging 2nd Amendment advocates. Similarly, I won't buy Levi's, avoid Bloomberg media stuff, and don't use cable because of Comcast/NBC stance on firearms issues. It probably won't change these companies stance but it is interesting how each of these companies are facing more and more challenges to their profitability. Make gun owners mad is probably not going to help these issues. Levi Strauss corporate bonds are at the junk level, Bloomberg made its dominant financial data customers mad by having its journalists spying on customer searches for data, and NBC ratings are in the toilet with its parent Comcast losing customers and suffering from horrible customer service. This is self correcting in the long run because businesses that focus on something other than profits and customer experiences will disappear or change their focus in the long run.

Similarly, Jim Carrey's career is spiraling downward and his harsh words for gun owners simply shrinks his marketability even more while not gaining himself much if any new fans. Actors, tv shows, movies, and musicians that become "too political" end up biting themselves in the pocketbook. Who wants to watch, listen, hear folks that stir up residual dislike. It breaks the spell and bond between audience and performer.

Mauser lover
July 16, 2013, 06:09 PM
Who is Jim Carrey???

If he has softened to the truth, I hope it is because he realized that it is the truth...

Wow, I never knew that about Levi Strauss (or however you spell that name)... They don't fit me well anyway, so no worries about them getting my money, but good to know all the same.

Sometimes boycotts work, but I don't know about this.

Double Naught Spy
July 16, 2013, 06:29 PM
Who is Jim Carrey???

LOL, his movies have grossed over $2.43 BILLION, never mind his TV and other acting proceeds.

However, when considering how well pro-gun boycotts work, what should be considered strongly is where they have worked that hasn't been detrimental to our own people, such as S&W or a sporting good show. How many business policies have we changed outside of our own circle of people?

splattergun
July 16, 2013, 09:16 PM
Lest those beige-collar types among us feel left out, remember that Dockers is a Levi Straus brand.

To find a company's policy regarding firearms, it is very basic Google-fu, Askarate or Bing kwon do. Simply use search terms such as " levi straus guns" or some such. I found this list by GOA in about 2 seconds.;
http://gunowners.org/fs0302.htm

I truly don't know if boycotts "work", but I suppose that they do, at some level. The important thing to me is that I choose to put my money where my mouth is. Consequently, I always write the CEOs of those companies I avoid and tell them, respectfully, exactly why I am buying from the competition. In fact, I have written Levi's on an annual basis for nearly 2 decades, just to tell them I have NOT spent $XXXX.00 with them. The annual tally is becoming quite impressive compared to my checking balance.

mljdeckard
July 16, 2013, 09:39 PM
Tough to call my not going to his movies a boycott, when I haven't seen any of them in years. I think the last one I actually saw in the theater was Ace 2.

blaisenguns
July 17, 2013, 10:49 AM
Jim Carrey has movies flop because they were bad, not because of any sort of boycott. Wonderstone had mediocre reviews at best and K-A2 was even denounced by Carrey.


Well his last good movie was at least 10 years ago.

45_auto
July 23, 2013, 07:03 PM
Looks like the USA boycott of Levi's is helping them out. Only place their sales are up is in the USA where they're being supposedly boycotted, while in the rest of the world (I doubt if the Asia-Pacific region and Europe are boycotting them for their gun control policies) their sales are down.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324507404578595973815545006.html

Levi Strauss Earnings: Sales Growth in Americas Boosts Results

For the quarter ended May 26, Levi reported a profit of $48.2 million, up from $13.2 million a year earlier. The year-earlier period included a debt-extinguishment charge of $8 million. Revenue increased 4.9% to $1.1 billion.

In the Americas, where Levi Strauss does most of its business, sales rose 10% from a year earlier to $666 million. Sales in the Asia-Pacific region declined 4%, while sales in Europe were off fractionally.

loose noose
July 23, 2013, 08:27 PM
I haven't bought a pair of Levi brand Levis since 1990, when I found out they were anti-gun, besides I like Wrangler better any how.:cool:

hso
July 23, 2013, 09:39 PM
I see a lot of secondary sources that Levi Strauss & Co is anti gun, but I've never seen a primary source showing a contribution from them to the Brady Campaign or other purely anti organization. A primary source would be the FEC filings or a direct communication from LS&Co supporting anti 2A organizations or issues.

rem44m
September 26, 2013, 06:56 PM
I didn't know that about Levi, I'm done buying anything Levi now that's for sure!

splattergun
September 26, 2013, 08:14 PM
I see a lot of secondary sources that Levi Strauss & Co is anti gun, but I've never seen a primary source showing a contribution from them to the Brady Campaign or other purely anti organization. A primary source would be the FEC filings or a direct communication from LS&Co supporting anti 2A organizations or issues.
Levis used to proclaim their support of Handgun Control Inc. and later the Brady Campaign, right on the front page of the LS&Co. website. I can attest to that, but they no longer do. The secondary evidence is all I can find at this time. And there is plenty of that. They continue to assign grant money to the ACLU (definitely not a pro 2A org) and political contributions to anti-2A candidates.

It has been a couple years since I asked LS&Co by email what their stance is on RKBA, and I no longer have that email response. You'll just have to take my word for it, approximately 2 years ago their response to me was that they continue to support efforts to eliminate gun violence. Perhaps more telling, I have never seen any evidence, statement, nor even any rumor that they have changed that stance.

It's your money, spend it where you will. As for my money... I will never knowingly spend it for Levi's or any of their other brands unless they publicly disavow their anti-2A stance.

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