Walther P22 vs Walther/Colt Gold Cup


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Olympus
July 10, 2013, 09:43 AM
Can't decide which one of these guns to get next. I know the P22 is a solid performer. I've shot several and really like the way they feel. And considering I'm in the waiting process for my first suppressor, I know the P22 makes a great base. I'm not familiar with the 5" model though. Does it have a threaded barrel also?

The Colt Gold Cup Trophy 22 is a big unknown to me. The photos I've seen make the gun look cheap. Does anyone have experience with this gun? Does it have a threaded barrel as well? Just really interested in hearing people's opinions on the two guns.

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Hanzo581
July 10, 2013, 09:48 AM
I love my P22, don't get my wrong (though the wife stole it from me). But check out the Ruger 22/45, they make a threaded barrel model and at least for me it is made much more solidly and is more accurate than my P22.

Olympus
July 10, 2013, 11:09 AM
I already have several MK2s. I was thinking of trying a different design this time.

Fishbed77
July 10, 2013, 12:49 PM
FYI - neither of these pistols are actually made by Walther. Both are made by Umarex out of potmetal.

I would go to waltherforums.com and do a few searches for the 5" barrelled version. What you'll find is not very encouraging.

Schwing
July 10, 2013, 02:19 PM
My P22 is a peace of garbage. I know a lot of people who have them and love them but I have nothing positive to say about them at all. Out of the box, mine stove piped or jammed about every 3rd round (No matter ammo brand). I sent it back to Walther and, after about 3 weeks, I got it back with one test fired casing and a note saying that they could not find anything wrong with the gun. Subsequent calls yielded absolutely zero results. They were unwilling to have me ship it back again, insisting that it was faulty ammo. I called a couple of other times just to make sure it was not the one rep being obstinate.

The Walther has some really basic design flaws that can be beyond problematic. A common problem is that the hammer sits way too high for the slide to cycle properly without undue drag on the bottom of the slide. This causes incomplete cycling and also wears out the slide very quickly. It is made out of pot metal so...

After shelving it for a couple of years, I found the P22 Bible on line and made the modifications described there.It now cycles well and has very few problems but the work took me the better part of a day and the slide is already nearly worn out from the first 500 rounds I put through before making the changes (There are some parts in the slide that are rough and rub on each other).

I was so disappointed with it that I vowed I will not by another Walther... just my own experience but it was bad enough that I won't go back.

rcmodel
July 10, 2013, 02:23 PM
I have a Walther P22 and wish I didn't.

The Ruger SR22 is what the P22 could have / should have been.

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22Pistol/models.html

rc

bannockburn
July 10, 2013, 02:31 PM
I was never impressed with the Walther P22 that I had. Everything was pretty spotty on the gun, from the materials used to manufacture it, to its overall reliabilty and accuracy. It needed frequent maintenance (i.e. cleaning), after just 100 rounds or so and just lacked the quality feel that I typically associated with Walther products.

Orion8472
July 10, 2013, 02:37 PM
Schwing, can you post a link to the P22 Bible? Thank you.

Olympus
July 10, 2013, 02:38 PM
FYI - neither of these pistols are actually made by Walther. Both are made by Umarex out of potmetal.

I would go to waltherforums.com and do a few searches for the 5" barrelled version. What you'll find is not very encouraging.

If that's true, why would Colt allow their name to be put on something of inferior qualify?

It's my understanding that the Gold Cup is made by Walther in Germany and imported by Umarex. Is that not the case?

rcmodel
July 10, 2013, 02:58 PM
Umarex makes them and Walther sells them.
Here's the story.

http://www.waltherarms.com/about-walther/

Here's the replicas they sell.
http://www.waltherarms.com/products/tactical-rimfire-replicas/1911-a1-gold-cup/

Why would Colt do they?
Why would H-K do that??

Money for using their name!

rc

Schwing
July 10, 2013, 03:10 PM
Here is (What I think is ) the most current version.

http://www.spentbrass.com/pistol/walther/p22/P22_bible.pdf

Olympus
July 10, 2013, 03:19 PM
Umarex makes them and Walther sells them.
Here's the story.

http://www.waltherarms.com/about-walther/

Here's the replicas they sell.
http://www.waltherarms.com/products/tactical-rimfire-replicas/1911-a1-gold-cup/

Why would Colt do they?
Why would H-K do that??

Money for using their name!

rc

I guess I'm still confused. The second link about the replica is the exact gun I'm looking at. Right below the photo of the gun is the Walther logo and says "made by Carl Walther, Germany". So if it's not made by Walther, why would they advertise it?

And is Colt really that bad for profit that they'd endorse an inferior product? I know a lot of Colt fanatics that would not like to hear that.

rcmodel
July 10, 2013, 03:24 PM
Carl Walther & UMAREX are pretty much the same company in Germany now.

PW Group, owners of shooting sports companies, CARL WALTHER Sportwaffen and UMAREX Sportwaffen

rc

Olympus
July 10, 2013, 03:34 PM
Saw a photo of the actual gun someone posted online that says "made by Walther" and "imported by Umarex" right on the side of the gun.

wow6599
July 10, 2013, 04:40 PM
The Walther P22 is one of the biggest POS firearms I have ever owned.

Saw a photo of the actual gun someone posted online that says "made by Walther" and "imported by Umarex" right on the side of the gun

Olympus, listen to rc and the others. At the end of the day, the P22 is not a well built firearm.

Olympus
July 10, 2013, 04:59 PM
Ok. What about the 1911 version?

Fishbed77
July 10, 2013, 05:05 PM
I guess I'm still confused. The second link about the replica is the exact gun I'm looking at. Right below the photo of the gun is the Walther logo and says "made by Carl Walther, Germany". So if it's not made by Walther, why would they advertise it?

Umarex owns a majority stake in Walther, so they can slap the Walther name on pretty much anything they make. Walther doesn't really have a choice in the matter.

What is particularly deceptive is that Umarex marks many of their products "Carl Walther, Ulm" when they are neither made by Walther, nor made in Ulm (the home of the actual Walther factory).

The proofmarks bear this out. Umarex-made guns (made in the Umarex factory in Arnsberg, near Cologne) will carry the Cologne proofmark - a shield with 3 crowns. Pistols actually made by Walther at the Walther factory in Ulm, Germany (such as the P99, PPQ, and PPS) will carry the Ulm proofmark - a staghorn.


And is Colt really that bad for profit that they'd endorse an inferior product? I know a lot of Colt fanatics that would not like to hear that.

Colt is not the only company that licenses their name to Umarex.

H&K and Smith & Wesson do the same thing. Umarex manufactures the whole line of H&K rimfires, as well as the Smith & Wesson M&P-22 pistol.

wow6599
July 10, 2013, 05:06 PM
Ok. What about the 1911 version?

Never owned one. From everything I've read about UMAREX, I believe anything they produce that isn't airsoft, is garbage.

I guess I should rephrase.....all rimfires they build are garbage.

Fishbed77
July 10, 2013, 05:51 PM
Here's the easy way to determine if a firearm is made by Walther or Umarex:


A pistol made by Walther in Ulm will carry the "staghorn" proof mark, as seen on this P99:

http://www.gunfaqs.org/P99FAQ/IV/3-1.jpg


A pistol made by Umarex in Arnsberg (near Cologne) will carry the "shield with 3 crowns" proof mark, as seen on this P22:

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j466/Pilotstever/p22proofs.jpg

weblance
July 10, 2013, 06:26 PM
The Colt/Walther/Umarex 1911 pistol has a threaded barrel. The adapter for the P22 is the correct one for the barrel thread. Regardless of who makes it, or what its made of, mine has been reliable, and accurate. Magazines are hard to come by, and there are 2 different ones, a 10 shot, and a 12 shot. It has tool less takedown, and has a steel reinforcing pin in the slide stop notch. I have around 1,000 rounds thru mine, and it hasnt had one failure, and I see no wear marks.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/weblance/Picture002Medium-2_zps007fe152.jpg

lhartman89
July 10, 2013, 06:35 PM
I vote for the SR-22 as another option. They have an aluminum slide and where the mag catch is they put a steel rod so it doesn't tear up the slide. They make one with a threaded barrel and it has a slip on grip so you can change from small to bigger. I haven't got to shoot mine much bit I really like it. Plus you know Ruger will take care of you if anything ever happens.

These are not my pictures.

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22Pistol/images/3604.jpg
http://outdoorchannel.com/content/articles/RugerSR22-2.jpg
http://oi48.tinypic.com/lh47n.jpg
http://wssfirearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/IMAG03941.jpg

redneck383
July 10, 2013, 07:43 PM
I've got the 5" P22 and love it. Probably about 1000 rounds through it so far and still no problems. It's accurate and I'd definitely buy it again if I had to start over. Barrel isn't threaded though. I'd probably try the Ruger SR22 for that route

ColtPythonElite
July 10, 2013, 08:04 PM
My buddy has two P22s. Both are prone to jam. I don't find them accurate enough for my tastes.

I know another guy with the potmetal Colt. It feeds OK, but is not accurate enough, either.

I guess either is OK for a paint can plinker.

Ruger SR-22...I know someone who bought one. It ran fine up to about 700 rounds and began jamming. The slide was pretty galled. It went back to Ruger for a fix. It came back working for a while and is now back to being unreliable. The friend quite shooting it and bought a Buckmark.

Olympus
July 16, 2013, 05:26 PM
Here's the easy way to determine if a firearm is made by Walther or Umarex:


A pistol made by Walther in Ulm will carry the "staghorn" proof mark, as seen on this P99:

http://www.gunfaqs.org/P99FAQ/IV/3-1.jpg


A pistol made by Umarex in Arnsberg (near Cologne) will carry the "shield with 3 crowns" proof mark, as seen on this P22:

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j466/Pilotstever/p22proofs.jpg

Here is another question. In looking at the GSG 1911 22, I see the Shield with 3 crowns marking on that gun also. Dis that mean that Umarex is actually making the GSG 1911 also?

paravil
July 16, 2013, 05:33 PM
The Ruger SR22 is what the P22 could have / should have been.

Here's another vote for the SR22. Personally, I have a 4.5 inch 22/45 and love it. But my brother has a P22, and a friend has an SR22. Between the two, the Ruger is better in every respect--feels better, shoots better, better build quality with better materials. And as others have pointed out, it's made by the company whose name is on the slide.

wally
July 17, 2013, 11:43 AM
It needed frequent maintenance (i.e. cleaning), after just 100 rounds

While the P22 is a cool looking package suppressed, for the reason mention above I would not buy one specifically for use with a suppressor, About 100 rounds with it through my Sparrow and its game over until you clean it again. The Sparrow is easily good for 1000 rounds of cheap bulk pack between cleanings.

A threaded barrel SR22 would be hard for me to pass up if the price was decent.


Dis that mean that Umarex is actually making the GSG 1911 also?

Yup, say what you want about Umarex, but what they are making is way better than the Chiappa options!

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