Have you ever wavered or faltered?


March 20, 2004, 05:15 PM
Have you, at any time after you started owning and shooting guns, been convinced in an argument or by a news source and whatnot to turn into an anti? Ever been partially convinced that guns are bad? It seems to me that once a person starts shooting seriously they never really turn back entirely.

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Standing Wolf
March 20, 2004, 05:18 PM
Nope, and I've never been tempted to take up armed robbery for fun and profit, either.

March 20, 2004, 05:37 PM
Never. In fact, my love for firearms grows steadily every day. Has so for 40 years. :)

March 20, 2004, 05:39 PM
No...but at times I wonder if things can continue the way they are, if people continue to act the way they do. I do think that gun owners and gun organizations need to be more aggressive in the areas of gun safety and crime prevention. I believe that a lot of the bad feelings toward us, and our stands, come from our use of patented phrases and rhetoric, and a lack of condemnation towards those who abuse the rights we are blessed with.

March 20, 2004, 05:44 PM
I've been convinced by a semi-anti friend that we shouldn't be allowed to buy landmines and chemical weapons at Kmart.
I guess I have no resolve....

March 20, 2004, 05:49 PM
nah it is just that the winters in NC have been so bad here lately...your resolve is fine...bad weather weakens the hardest heart

Ala Dan
March 20, 2004, 06:14 PM
Nope, I try to sway the antis beliefs toward those
of myself; that all men were created by GOD, and
old Sam Colt made 'em equal.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

March 20, 2004, 06:19 PM
RIGHT-ON Ala Dan....My feelings exactly!!! :D

March 20, 2004, 06:26 PM
i had a fellow shipmate tell me once that a gun is too much power for one man to have. ill admit that he got me thinking, not about anti gun folfs or whatever just about human nature and the devil in all of us. i respected his thoughts and didn't give him any trouble about it. in the end i decided maybe it's the truth ,but man has many weapons and our ability to take life period is too much power and that is why i carry, to make sure no son of a bitch try's to end my life prematurely.

carp killer
March 20, 2004, 06:27 PM
Never. A gun is in inanimate object that is no more harmful than a tool, a car or a can of gas. All the anti-gun people and media arguements are emotional and about being afraid of a piece if steel. Rarely is the debate about the people using the inanimate object. It's not POLITICALLY CORRECT. :barf: :barf: :barf:

March 20, 2004, 06:45 PM
All that is required for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. (I do not know who to attribute that too)

Bad people do evil to others or our own. Bad people have tools that greatly magnify their abilities (i.e. guns, swords, ice picks, etc). Governments may also be made of bad men with evil intentions.

There are more good men than bad men. Some of the good men arm themselves to keep evil at bay, whether it be criminals or tyrants.

Society gets a free ride from a few good men where they are allowed to be armed.

It is not difficult to figure out. If you are squeamish, get in the wagon, there are plenty of us pulling it anyway.

March 20, 2004, 06:49 PM
I do, however, sympathize with anti's to a degree as I haven't figured out what should be done about criminals who use firearms. I am not against the death penalty, but capital punishment doesn't seem to affect the criminal mind as much as I thought it should. I'd like to hear other opinions on what we, as a society, should be doing more of to curb gun crimes...

Ben Shepherd
March 20, 2004, 07:00 PM
Autolite, the answer to the gun criminal question is this: What do you think said criminal would do if he KNEW that anytime he wanted to pull one off, someone at or near the target was armed and would shoot?

Everyone should read the book Dial 911 and Die!!
The police are there for general protection and solving crime only, they are not personal bodyguards.

Society needs to remember what personal responsibilty means to its very survival. All these government programs(welfare, unemployment, social security, etc.) paid for with double, triple or quadruple taxation are, in the end, destructive to the very fabric of the society that supports it. And the fact that this very same government has thrown the moral code that the Constitution is based on in the trash makes it even worse.

The difference in our tax burden vs. what caused the Boston tea party is staggering. If any of the original patriots were around they would be calling for another revolution. Yet we all just keep playing along because we want our piece of the pie.

Sorry about the ramble, but the venting felt good.

Look at South Carolinas crime stats since the DA declared open season on home invaders.

A while back we had a restraunt held up, and the perp turned around to face severall CCW holders weapons....that type of crime has went down drastically around here.

March 20, 2004, 07:34 PM
(I do not know who to attribute that to)

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Edmund Burke

I believe you're right. This climatic attrition is likely to blame. Tell you what, on Monday I'll strengthen my resolve and march to that guy's house, pound on his front door and tell him that he's wrong about what I should buy at Kmart! I want my Spishak do-it-yourself mustard gas artillery kit with free 2004 Hello Kitty calendar!

March 20, 2004, 07:59 PM
No one has ever come close to convincing me to be anti-gun.

OTOH when I was doing the shooting part to qualify for my CCW permit in OK (shot at 3 and 7 yds) for about a week I was convinced that mandatory training and proof of competence with a firearm prior to permitting one to buy was in order. Some of the bufoons on the range at that time were so bad that it was pretty obvious that it was either at best the first time they'd fired their chosen weapon or at worst didn't have a clue and were just stumble bums.

BUT - that feeling went away after I thought about the consequences of requiring mandatory training as a pre-requisite to purchase. Some of those thoughts were planted by you guys on THR!

March 20, 2004, 08:05 PM

Do I agree with the concept of violence prevention? Sure. I'm all for it, think there actually are some valuable things that can be done to help. We live in a really screwed up world. However, banning objects is not the answer to the problem. I live in a place where there are probably..hmm..5 guns per capita? And we have a very low rate of violence. But when you get to places where people live crowded together with little opportunity or ability (for whatever reason) to improve their lives or see a brighter future, violence is a given, although there are very few guns.

I've often wished that those who truly want to prevent or lessen the amount of violence would not be encumbered by the anti-gun wing nuts out there.

Ben Shepherd
March 20, 2004, 08:14 PM
The best way I've ever heard the gun banners shut down pronto is this little fact.

You cannot asign a moral predisposition of any kind to an inanimate, soulless object, be it a gun, steak knife or baseball bat. They only react to manipulation by an entity capable of some level of thought.

There is no way around this.

March 20, 2004, 08:22 PM
What the ASD folks fail to notice is that everything you could possibly do with a gun to cause anyone harm is already illegal. People that violate the law (let alone any kind of moral code) to murder someone is not going to be stopped by the idea that doing it with a gun is illegal. They're criminals..by definition they don't care about the law.

March 20, 2004, 08:29 PM

March 20, 2004, 09:25 PM
I just remember. A young man with 10 gunshot wounds. Domestic violence. The ex came to pick up the kids for the weekend. New boyfriend pulled up. Ex pulls out a rifle and plugs the new boyfriend 10 times. The rifle was stolen, the ex was a convicted felon, the new boyfriend was unaware, unarmed and dead. If a neighbour had been a legal CCW and armed, what might have been? I believe in firearms, self defense and protection of the meek from the wolves. I own, I CCW, I collect and I haven't had a single inanimate piece of steel whisper K I L L to me yet. Do I need Beltone?

March 20, 2004, 11:47 PM
I was not a gun owner untill about fifteen years ago. I did not know which side of the fence I should have been on. I researched the subject and first decided that in the bill of rights the right to keep and bear arms was an individual right. I also discovered that there was a lower crime rate when and where this freedom was exercised. I also found out that the best reason for the second amendment was to protect the citizens from tyranny. I belive anyone who would come into this with an open mind has to come to the same conclusion. I am now a life member of the NRA, and a certified instructor in pistol and shotgun. I instruct both for 4-H and boyscouts.

March 20, 2004, 11:54 PM

March 21, 2004, 12:13 AM
I have listened to other's arguements and held them as true for a short time but I have never changed my mind once on this issue. I have been liberal and conservative on many issues in my life, I've played hop-scotch on the political board but my position on "gun control" has always been one of disgust.

March 21, 2004, 01:17 AM
i had a fellow shipmate tell me once that a gun is too much power for one man to have.

Technological progess over the ages has put more and more power into fewer and fewer hands.

There will come a day when the ability to destroy an entire planet can be put into the hands of a single individual.

Some say that day has already come (biological warfare), and the writer Frank Herbert wrote about such occurences in his short story "Committee of the Whole" and his novel "The White Plague". I can only hope that better countermeasures to such threats are developed before too long.

March 21, 2004, 01:27 AM
I have at times wondered if the fight is truely worth it. Some I meet are completely apathetic, yet others are so diametrically opposed to logic that it literally hurts to argue with them after just a few minutes.

I have also wavered in my belief that a Tin Foil Beanie isnt necessary throughout life. Sometimes I wonder...http://www.bedford.net/design/images/smilies/tinhat2.gif

Zach S
March 21, 2004, 01:49 AM
Sometimes I do, however once I start thinking logicly I return to normal.

six 4 sure
March 21, 2004, 02:09 AM
Nope, and I’ve made grate progress with my mother. She still doesn’t like guns, but her argument is that after you own 5-10 they are a waste of money. Given my age she really doesn’t have any say in the matter. She thinks I could spend my money on “better things”. My usual reply is well I could always use some more ammo.:)


March 21, 2004, 02:35 AM
It was just before the end of the Vietnam war, after I'd decided the war (and my military service) might have been a mistake, when I felt the attraction of "The Dark Side":eek:

I hung out with the campus radicals and listened to all the "Peace, Love, and Harmony through Socialism" lectures.

When I put all the promises and hypotheses together, they didn't add up.

Especially the anti-gunner's arguments about guns 'facilitating' crime.:barf:

The Force returned and has been with me ever since, even here in the current extremely anti-gun political climate of Australia.:)

March 21, 2004, 04:23 AM
Never, and I do mean NEVER! :cuss: IMHO the other amendments aren't worth the paper they're written on without the Second Amendment. Antis just don't get it. :rolleyes:

Bruce in West Oz
March 21, 2004, 07:22 AM


It was wrong.


March 21, 2004, 05:05 PM
Other way around. I was a gun-hating liberal. I hadn't thought about it much, but I didn't like 'em. Then I was confronted by one. And I realized that my hate was motivated by fear. "Fear is the mindkiller". I decided to learn everything I could about guns, and decide on the basis of knowledge, instead.

Don't let anyone convince you that there is no difference between Education and Propaganda.

March 21, 2004, 09:48 PM
I am not against the death penalty, but capital punishment doesn't seem to affect the criminal mind as much as I thought it should. I'd like to hear other opinions on what we, as a society, should be doing more of to curb gun crimes.

No one knows how capital punishment affects the criminal mind today, since capital punishment is not a likely consequence of ANY crime committed in this country in the last half century. I suspect that an impartial investigation into the likely orientation of criminal minds in earlier days would clarify that likely capital punishment as a consequence of certain crimes drastically reduced but did not eliminate those crimes, particularly not eliminating so-called crimes of passion. I am sure that, historically, capital punishment as an expected consequence of an act has been far more effective than any other punishment ever permitted in this country. In a few other countries, there may be slightly more effective punishments.

There is NO gun crime in this country today. On one of the other sites, a fellow has had a 24-hour video watch on his S&W, and it has not even MOVED, much less committed a crime. In general, this is how guns behave.

If "society" desires to curb crime, the methods are quite clear to those who care (the primary method being to make it not pay, both by making punishment highly likely, and by making the punishment far more costly to the criminal than any expected benefits of the crime). Whether a gun or some other weapon is used is invenereal; what is at issue is whether a crime has been committed, and how serious a threat to life and limb has occurred. Obviously, there is some relationship between these issues and what mechanical weapons, if any, are employed, but the weapon itself isn't the crime.

March 21, 2004, 09:51 PM
If you're an average gun owner, you have several problems with that idea, starting with the fact that most of us aren't brain dead.

Most gun owners remember things, and aren't in the habit of sending our brains out to be laundered and pressed.

First rules of being a good American gun owner:
Never give up.
Never give in.
Never give an inch.
Never give a pass.
Never give out.

March 22, 2004, 10:58 AM
Kinda hard to harvest wild animals using your bare hands. :D

Even being shot hasn't caused me to doubt the safety of owning guns. It did cause me to be more cautious of others though. It's just your basic learning opportunity.

Defeatists are pretty scarce around these parts.

March 22, 2004, 12:42 PM

March 22, 2004, 12:53 PM
When I think of people who want to take away the right to own firearms (the way the First Amendment has been taken away), I remember my own experience.

A few weeks after buying my first firearm, I had someone try to break into my apartment. Had I been unarmed, I would've been terrified. As it is, I ran the guy off, and that was that. I called the police to report it, and they took an hour to arrive.

Eskimo Jim
March 22, 2004, 01:39 PM
Nope, haven't faultered. My firearms haven't committed a crime today or yesterday and won't commit one tomorrow. They can't commit a crime because they are inanimate objects.:D

Owning firearms have not turned me into a criminal or given me any interest in becoming a criminal despite what anti gun groups might think.

I see anti gunners are very illogical and misinformed people. I try to convert the ones that can be converted and I try to have as little to do with the ones that won't believe in reason and logic.

On how to curb gun crime, we should lock the criminal away for committing the crime. There are two important aspects of the criminal system. One, the system must sufficiently penalize the criminal for breaking societies laws. I don't think that the current prison system punishes criminals enough. I think that many criminals see prison as an opportunity to learn new techniques and skills to commit more crimes.

The other aspect is that the criminal system needs to correct the criminal's behaviour. I do believe that there are some criminals that will change their life to avoid committing crimes once they are released. Prisons should provide some assistance to criminals to learn skills that are beneficial to society and help prevent them from commiting crimes once they are released. I do believe that there are plenty of these programs already in place.


March 22, 2004, 01:42 PM
I could be talked into making NICS checks available for private transactions

M2 Carbine
March 23, 2004, 01:54 AM

Anti gun arguments are so stupid I can't possibly agree with them.

Sam Adams
March 23, 2004, 02:06 PM
Never did, never will. The point of view of the antis is so contrary to common sense and morality that I will never fall for it. To the contrary, I use every occasion possible to try to convince the blissninnies to turn away from the Dark Side.

March 23, 2004, 03:26 PM
Only hypotheticly. The "if all guns in the world dissapeared" line of thought.

You know, if all guns were gone there would be much fewer deaths worldwide. I cannot argue with that. True statement. All other crime would go up of course and I would hate to be an elderly person or a woman in a bad neighborhood.

Problem with this line of thinking is pretty much like the argument about highway safety. "If we all went 5MPH look how many lives it would save." Yes, again true but not very practical.

But I do have to concede the point that if all guns were gone there would be less killing. Makes me think... but it would never sway me to the other side of the gun control argument.

Sam Adams
March 23, 2004, 05:59 PM
I'm not so sure about the number of deaths being reduced - per capita murder rates in medieval England were far higher than in even the very worst places in the world today. It would be a world in which the strongest or most numerous would survive. Can you imagine a single cop armed with a short sword going up against 9 thugs armed with broadswords or battle axes?

As the saying goes: "G-d made Man, and Samuel Colt made them equal."

I'll stick with guns, thank you very much.

Jason Demond
March 23, 2004, 06:27 PM

March 23, 2004, 06:41 PM
Well as a group gun owners need to get more responsible. 95% of guns used in crime are stolen. Guess who their stolen from. Yep gun owners. People who don't buy good safe's and don't bother properly securing their firearms when they are away from home. It also is no help when some kid takes his dads gun and shoots his best friend. People need to teach their children better and need to secure their weapons much better. If your gun is not on your hip it should be in the safe.

March 23, 2004, 06:45 PM
Perhaps it is because I was indoctrinated from the earliest age but NEVER HAVE I FALTERED IN MY CONVICTIONS IN THIS AREA. Guns just make more sense than no guns.

Religion on the other hand is quite another matter.

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