Question about 2 different powders


July 15, 2013, 03:17 AM
I have a question on powders and weights. I loaded some .38sp +p with IMR 4227. The load data sheet said 11 grains of powder. I then got some Hodgdkins Titegroup and for the exact same bullet, it called for 4.3 gr max. The fps was 56 fps less on the titegroup. My question is why is the titegroup amount so much less in quantity? Is it the composition of the powder? I see the fps is lower with the titegroup, but not that much to warrant less than half the powder. thx

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July 15, 2013, 03:52 AM
It's because Titegroup is an extremely fast powder. It's near the top of the list on the burn rate chart.

July 15, 2013, 04:42 AM
The powder speed has something to do with it but the composition of the powder has a greater role.

July 15, 2013, 07:54 AM
The composition of the powder indeed plays a role because it determines, among other things, the burn rate.

July 15, 2013, 10:55 AM
Look at all the powders listed for that cartridge/bullet combination. Pretty much, the faster the powder, the less you use for a given pressure.
I am curious. What gun are you using, and what velocity did you get with the 4227?

July 15, 2013, 09:21 PM
Never used 4227 in the .38 spl. .357 loads start at 12.2 grs with 158 gr. fmj, I too am curious about the gun.

July 16, 2013, 08:48 PM
It is the difference in burn rate. The much faster Titegroup will get up to max pressure so fast compared to 4227 you have to use less of it. The pressure curve of Tightgroup is much shorter while still reaching max pressure.

July 16, 2013, 09:16 PM
This is why I don't use Tite Group in .38 special cases. There is too much room in the case and too little powder. You could easily 2x, 3x, or 4x the charge and still have room in the case. Furthermore, at least in my Lee Turret Press, you can't really see the powder in the bottom of the case to verify its presence before seating a bullet. I use IMR800x in .38 special because it fills the case more visibly. Even if you're careful, you could overcharge a .38 special case with Tite Group and not see the difference.

I like Tite Group a lot, and use it in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. But I won't use it in .38 special.

July 16, 2013, 11:28 PM
Pretty much answered on your other thread.

Post 22

You stated you have Lyman 49, In the front part of the manual they explain powders and their composition and uses.

July 17, 2013, 10:11 AM
Green Dot is almost exactly the same speed as Titegroup, and Red Dot is even faster, but they work great in .38 Special. They are bulky powders that are easy to see in the deep case. You could double-charge them without overflowing (or miss an empty case) if you were paying no attention at all to what you're doing, but you'd have to work at it.

July 17, 2013, 12:37 PM
And along those lines, American Select, another good one.

July 17, 2013, 04:57 PM
4227 doesn't seem like a commonly used powder for the 38 spcl, rather slow. Start looking at & cross referencing several reloading manuals.

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