[goon]

I am thinking about getting one of the Mossberg, Remington, (fill in blank) shotguns from one of my local shops and cutting the barrel to 18.5" (I know that is .5" longer than I need as long as my OAL is over 26"). The resulting gun would have no choke at all. My question is what are the patterns out of a 12 gauge like that going to look like?
How long will it take for a load of #4 or 00 buck to spread beyond putting most of the pellets on a dinner plate or so?

[dfariswheel]

A lot depends on the shells. For example, buffered shot shells group tighter than un-buffered shells.

I've always gone on the "rule of thumb" of one inch per yard from the muzzle.

So, at 6 yards something like 6 inches.
Some guns/shells will be tighter, some looser.

[PJR]

How long will it take for a load of #4 or 00 buck to spread beyond putting most of the pellets on a dinner plate or so?
All shotguns are different and there are no consistent rules on patterning but in my experience a cylinder choke gun usually expands beyond a "dinner plate" pattern at about 10 yards with some variations depending on shot hardness. I use a modified choke in my buckshot gun which gives me good patterns out to 20 to 25 yards.

Paul

[444]

I am no expert in shotguns but am merely repeating what I have been told.
It seems that shotguns are an unusual breed of weapon. What works in one gun, may not work in another gun. Most people agree that you need to pattern your shotgun with a varitey of ammunition and find the load that patterns best in your gun. Appearently pattern size and density will differ from one gun to the next. There is no one "best shell" for every shotgun. According to Louis Awerbuck, even two virtually identical shotguns from the same manufacturer with consecutive serial numbers may very well pattern completely differently.
Louis Awerbuck also said that two of the tightest patterning shotguns he ever saw were guns that had been sawn off with a hacksaw and were later confiscated by the police.
I know in my 18" barreled gun using 00 buck, 15 yards would be about the limit for keeping all the pellets on a dinner plate. Your milage might and probably will vary depending on your gun and your load.
You also have a couple other options if you need your pattern to remain tighter at longer ranges. Having Hans Vang do his modifications to your barrel will keep a tigher pattern for a longer distance. Another interesting option is the use of Choke(tm) 00 buckshot shells. Choke shells are a load of 8, 00 buckshot pellets bonded together. The exit the barrel in one piece similar to a slug. Upon hitting the target, they fly apart similar to a Glaser Safety slug in a handgun. These Choke shells are being used by several fairly large law enforcement agencies and are becoming more mainstream. The shells are manufactured by Choke of Layton Utah (801-593-8888).

[Dave McCracken]

There's few absolutes in Shotgunland. One cylinder bore here does 16-20" at 25 yards with the best buck load for it. Another with skeet choke(in this case MINUS 5 POC, meaning the choke is LARGER than bore diameter) does the same at 20 yards.

The WORST ammo nearly doubled that.BTW, no ammo was worst in both. Go figure...

The low kick experimental loads I used and wrote about go into less than 10" at 20 yards, certainly suitable for HD.

A suggestion, meaure the longest shot possible on your house and pattern loads at that range until you've got one that will print into 15".

Why 15"?

Measure your torso's width just below the armpits.

[dance varmint]

Patterned my 870 Marine Magnum, which comes with 18 inch cylinder bore. With Remington Express 12ga 00 buck (Wally World 15-pack): 6-7" at 10 yards, 11" at 15 yards.

[sm]

Lots of very good points made, I agree with previous posts.

Only Absolute in Shotgunning -- ain't one

We have to pattern each individual gun and bore for the task ( distance) and find what that gun and bore works best with. Reliablity is paramount, patterning is crucial.

Yep I have taken 3 exact identical guns with identical bbls and chokes...all behaved different .

Just because a barrel or choke has a marking - don't make it so

Weirdest phenomen I ever had? Old Wingmaster with 28" modified fixed choke , plain bbl. I don't care what I used Slugs, 00 buck, Steel shot, Bismuth, skeet loads...I obtained the "optimum pattern".

I pulled a good one and "ruined" this bbl the same way I did a 26" IC fixed choked plain bbl.[ yeah that one I wrote about].

Got a "little carried away" - again. I "think" I finally learned to NOT use the muzzle to "gut punch" a steel teddy in a training excercise. When the instructor says "all perps must go down"...umm I put them down.

In real life I will in a heartbeat...believe me I will.

Ruined two of the best patterning bbls I have ever owned.