45 acp load help


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JRiddle
July 20, 2013, 12:29 PM
New to reloading, and I'm loading 45 acp with alliant bullseye 185 grain hollow point and cci 300 primers , my problem is the oal and load amount , for the rounds to chamber through my ruger p97 correct the oal has to be at 1.212 anything larger and they jam .
I think that I can load at 6.4 gr as long as my oal isat least 1.2
Can someone help,
THANKS

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moxie
July 20, 2013, 12:56 PM
Your OAL is a bit short. Try 1.240.

You need a reloading manual to determine powder charge. That's safest. charge is not determined by OAL, but pressure can be affected by it.

Most likely, your problem is your rounds are a bit "fat" at the case mouth. Using your calipers, what is the OD at the case mouth, of a completed round? It should be .469-.470". Fatter than that and chambering can be difficult.

Another check is the "plunk test." Search on that.

Let us know results of those checks and we can help you with fixes.

mahansm
July 20, 2013, 12:56 PM
That's the data from the Alliant website and you should be good. Reduce by 10% to start and work up towards 6.4 until you get something that functions properly and gives acceptable accuracy.

BTW, this question would have been better located in the reloading forum on this site.

TIMC
July 20, 2013, 03:20 PM
You could always switch to universal powder and drop your load to 5.4 grains which will give you more case room and les powder is cheaper.

moxie
July 20, 2013, 03:38 PM
timc,

His main problem's jamming. Changing the load won't solve that. He's also thinking incorrectly that if he keeps a certain OAL then he can use more powder. Not so. He needs to adjust his dies properly and go by established load data.

Shmackey
July 20, 2013, 03:43 PM
Why not just take the OAL down to 1.2 per the load data?

As for being too far, just do the plunk test in your (removed) barrel and see how it does.

JRiddle
July 20, 2013, 04:21 PM
Tried the plunk test everything looks good a little tight at the bottom but not so much to make it jam

Shmackey
July 20, 2013, 04:47 PM
Ok so what exactly is the problem?

JRiddle
July 20, 2013, 05:17 PM
My concern is the OAL BEING 1.212
Another web site says the Oal should be 1.275 , I just dont want to create too much pressure .

I think I will try a load at 5.8 and work my way up.

paw080
July 20, 2013, 06:33 PM
You said:
NEW to reloading, and I'm loading 45 acp with alliant bullseye 185 grain
hollow point and cci 300 primers , my problem is OAL is 1.212 anything
longer and the rounds jam in the chamber. The OD after loaded is .472 a little fat.
My concern is the OAL is this to short ?
ALLIANT web site says 6.4 grains and oal 1.2
I just want to be safe not sorry .


Hi JRiddle, My Lyman reloading handbook lists the MAX load with Bullseye

powder using 185gr jacketed or cast lead is 4.9gr.

Are you sure that you want to compete for the 2013 Darwinian Awards?

Please check your load data again, and always plunk test your loads. Good luck;

Tony

Walkalong
July 20, 2013, 06:40 PM
1.275 is the SAMMI max OAL for .45 ACP.

JHPs like you are loading are going to be more in the 1.225 to 1.235 range, + or - a little.

Speer #13 gives 5.7 to 6.4 Grs Bullseye with a 185 Gr GD JHP loaded at 1.200.

41 Mag
July 20, 2013, 06:41 PM
NEW to reloading, and I'm loading 45 acp with alliant bullseye 185 grain hollow point and cci 300 primers , my problem is OAL is 1.212 anything longer and the rounds jam in the chamber. The OD after loaded is .472 a little fat.
My concern is the OAL is this to short ?
ALLIANT web site says 6.4 grains and oal 1.2
I just want to be safe not sorry .


Your concerned about the length in the listed data on Alliant's site. Are you using the Gold Dot as the load data suggest?

Also I actually think you should have more to be concerned with than the OAL.

You might should have read what they listed just above the Enter the Guide link and go from there,

"This information and data may vary considerably depending on many factors, including the components used, component assembly, the type of firearm used, reloading techniques, safety precautions practiced, etc."

"REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.
The exceptions to this are the loads listed as "target" in the 38 Special and 45 ACP data tables. ( I don't think your listed load is going to fall into this parameter. )

By clicking the link below, I understand and will agree to abide by the above precautions.

Enter the Guide


My concern is the OAL BEING 1.212
Another web site says the Oal should be 1.275 , I just dont want to create too much pressure .

I think I will try a load at 5.8 and work my way up.

Just looking at the listed charge, and figuring in a 10% reduction as they recommend, off the top of my head should throw it somewhere in the low to mid 4 grain range as a start load. Yet your still worried about the OAL and going to only drop down to 5.8 and work up from there because you don't want to risk high pressure.

Well alrighty then.

You might want to step back a few steps and pick up and READ some loading manuals, quit jumping straight to listed charge weights on the internet, and if you are going to do so, then you should at least read and heed the warnings and instructions which accompany them. Otherwise your not going to be loading for long before you post up "why did my gun blow up".

Lj1941
July 20, 2013, 10:14 PM
Get a Lee Factory Crimp die and your fat case problem will be cured.Your 5.8 starting charge looks just about right with a listed max of 6.4 grains.:evil:

ArchAngelCD
July 20, 2013, 10:19 PM
I don't see the problem or possible danger here. The Alliant site is using an OAL of 1.2" and your OAL is longer @1.212" so where is the danger? Reduce the Max charge weight listed by Alliant by 10% and work up to the Max if you wish. I see no problem here...

mdThanatos
July 21, 2013, 12:07 AM
Well looking at Alliants load data it shows that the minimum OAL is 1.2 and for your Ruger, based on what you posted, the maximum is the 1.212. You will have to play around with the dies and see what OAL works best for you. If I am not mistaken, the max load is the 6.4 gr of Bullseye so don't exceed that. So just as mahansm said, reduce it by 10% (5.7-5.8 gr) and work your way up, also you have .012 worth of wiggle room in the OAL.

TIMC
July 21, 2013, 11:56 AM
timc,

His main problem's jamming. Changing the load won't solve that. He's also thinking incorrectly that if he keeps a certain OAL then he can use more powder. Not so. He needs to adjust his dies properly and go by established load data.


Moxie

As I read it his problem is case capacity and OAL. My suggestion for a powder Change would allow for a shorter OAL, I had a similar problem with some of my 3" 1911's. once I got my OAL below 1.2" I had no more FTF issues. So yes my suggestion may very well solve his issue.

sheephearder
July 21, 2013, 02:58 PM
Not sure why this is in the revolver section but I have found the Lee factory crimp die will fix a lot of problems when shooting 45 ACP in different guns. Do the drop test (take the barrel out of the gun and drop live ammo in to it to see if they chamber all the way with out any help). A gun with a tight chamber may not run with ammo that one with a little larger chamber does.

When shooting action pistol with different 45s I had to do this to keep from having problems, I have factory crimp dies for 357, 44 and 45 and think they are worth the cost, :cool:

moxie
July 21, 2013, 04:24 PM
timc,

There is NO direct correlation between OAL and powder charge. Or between OAL and pressure. This is not a valid reloading premise. Very dangerous!

TIMC
July 21, 2013, 07:10 PM
timc,

There is NO direct correlation between OAL and powder charge. Or between OAL and pressure. This is not a valid reloading premise. Very dangerous!

Moxie

There is on case capacity with powder volume and seating depth. It can be done safely, the load I suggested is not dangerous even at 1.190. Book data is a suggestion this is why we start low and work up, .04" decrease is not enough difference from the 1.23" suggested OAL to cause any huge pressure spikes anyway. The OP was asking because he was having problems with FTF when OAL was over 1.20" I just made a suggestion on how he can stay at 1.20" and not have issues, he can try it or not and same for you.

You are a little over reactive. Most book loads can be vastly different from one to another in max/min loads and OAL. This is a load I have used for years on my short stroke 1911's that has been tested in several guns and not something I just pulled out of the air. On the OP's P-97 with a 4.2" barrel he should see about 935fps with a 185 grain bullet which is a good speed for decent expansion.

moxie
July 21, 2013, 07:26 PM
No, I'm not overreacting. You are correlating OAL with powder charges. The only inference you can validly make is that seating a bullet more deeply will raise pressure, but you don't know by how much. There is no formula for that. It can only be determined empirically. You say "not enough difference...to cause huge pressure spikes." How do you know? When is there enough difference to matter? How can you tell? This doesn't help a new reloader. Best advice for him is to stick with the tables and work on getting dies adjusted properly.

Delmar
July 21, 2013, 07:31 PM
New to reloading, and I'm loading 45 acp with alliant bullseye 185 grain hollow point and cci 300 primers , my problem is the oal and load amount , for the rounds to chamber through my ruger p97 correct the oal has to be at 1.212 anything larger and they jam .
I think that I can load at 6.4 gr as long as my oal isat least 1.2
Can someone help,
THANKS
JRiddle, are you seating the bullet and crimping at the same time? If so, try seating the bullet and then crimping in separate operations. You might be bulging the brass, causing your malfunctions.

moxie
July 21, 2013, 07:47 PM
Suggest this be moved to "handloading and reloading" for more expertise.

Vern Humphrey
July 21, 2013, 08:01 PM
I've been reloading the .45 ACP for a very long time, and Bullseye is my powder of choice:

1. Case capacity isn't really relevant with Bullseye. You can load enough Bullseye into a case to blow up the gun and still seat a bullet to minimum OAL.

2. The proper OAL is the one that works for your gun.

3. But as you decrease OAL, you increase pressure, so you need to adjust your powder charge accordingly.

4. A taper crimp works best for all my guns.

5. Excessive crimping can bulge the case and affect feeding and chambering -- you need to check for that.

6. Seating a bullet too deeply can also bulge the case.

7. While a properly set-up pistol should feed any reasonable weight or form bullet, the 230 grain roundnose will feed in guns where others will not feed.

8. Put your loaded round next to a 230-grain ball round. Note whether the corners of the meplat (the flat point of the bullet) would touch the curve of the ball. If so, that load will usually feed well in all .45s. If not, that may be the source of your problem.

9. As mentioned earlier, the gun itself is your best gauge. Strip it and drop your loaded rounds into the chamber. If they drop in freely, they should work fine. If not, you have a problem that you need to correct.

TIMC
July 21, 2013, 08:38 PM
You are correlating OAL with powder charges.

You have never heard of compressed loads? A different burn rate powder that will give the desired velocities at a smaller charge weight will allow a deeper seating depth and not necessarily raise pressures. Yes that is what I am associating with powder charges and that does address the OP's question which sounds like he does not want to load over 1.20" because of feeding problems and HP bullets and which I noticed you have not really done. Hmmm....

How do I know? EXPERIENCE!!!
We were all new at one time and we all have to experiment from time to time. Like I said, that is why you start light and work up on powder loads. You know there are lots of loads that are not in the books.

You probably still do not get it so I give up. You are obviously not wanting to understand so I concede. You are the expert and you can have the last word if you want it. :rolleyes:


No more replies from me......

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