Range Moron # 100XXX


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45R
March 21, 2004, 03:41 AM
I'm gettting ready to leave the indoor range today and this nice gentleman decides to come in to qualify for his job.

So he proceeds to bring in his Ruger 9mm and its has one of those rather large gun locks that the cover the trigger. While trying to make the gun "safe" for inspection. He managed to sweep in 4 seconds, his wife, baby, kid, the range employees and myself with the careless handling. It took him a total of 10 seconds to remove the "trick" lock.

After removing the lock he leaves the gun on the counter to look for eye and ear protection while his firearm in the reach of his 4 year old child!!!!!

The child manages to reach up on the counter grab the gun and pulled the trigger!!!! Thankfully the gun was locked back and empty...............

The whole time this happened my radar was blinking red.:fire:

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fjolnirsson
March 21, 2004, 03:48 AM
:what:
:eek:
:banghead:

Delmar
March 21, 2004, 04:02 AM
What is it with some shops/ranges who do not enforce safety? Must they wait until another customer/employee is shot/maimed/dead on the floor?

4570Rick
March 21, 2004, 04:58 AM
Which range was it? I'll try to avoid it. :(

twoblink
March 21, 2004, 05:29 AM
It's stupidity like that, that is an accident waiting to happen :banghead: :cuss:

It gives shooters, gun owners, and humans a bad name.

You should have reported him..

At my old range, he would have been kicked out, his picture taken with a polaroid camera, and never let back in...

That's just a front page, Feinstein excuse for gun bans waiting to happen! :barf: :cuss:

Smoke
March 21, 2004, 07:51 AM
He needs to teach his kids better. My 4 year old knows better than to try to pickup a gun.

Smoke

BlkHawk73
March 21, 2004, 08:26 AM
Anyone speak to him? Anyone mention the crime of child endangerment to this jack@$$? I agree that while some incidents are ok for the 3 strikes ruleing, this bozo needs to be turned away and NOT let back in. My 2yo knows better than that.
And while this was going on, exactly where was the wife? As a parent, she needs to do her job as well. I usually don't say much about stupid things like this to th idiot, but when kids are involved...He had heard it from me, and when his wife understood what happened, she have likely really given it to him.

PCRCCW
March 21, 2004, 08:29 AM
Well, IMO hes a complete newbie or wouldnt have taken the time to fiddle with the lock while sweeping everyone in the place. He's typical of self taught or just learning "types" and needs some real education. ESPECIALLY with a Yungen with him. He needs to get taught so does his kid. I would have had a safety talk with him.......screw his ego...better a little humbling education than an accident waiting to happen.
Shoot well........

BluesBear
March 21, 2004, 08:38 AM
You mean this guy was at your range too?

tc300mag1
March 21, 2004, 08:42 AM
cant believe the range people didnt say anything i sure would have

Third_Rail
March 21, 2004, 09:00 AM
Nightmare... the fact that this is common really hits me hard.

Standing Wolf
March 21, 2004, 09:45 AM
Ah! Gun locks for the sake of the children!

Arc Angel
March 21, 2004, 11:00 AM
:uhoh: Don't you know how to scream; 'Stop!' 'Don't touch that gun, again!' or 'Stop, look what you're doing, Stupid!' :confused:

Don't be sooo ... polite. Really good manners on your part, and an idiot with a gun standing opposite you are a recipe for disaster. Awhile back a, 'friend' almost shot me in the head with this sort of stupid gun handling. The instant he pointed his, 'empty pistol' at my face, I swept his arm and squeezed the gun out of his grip. He became angry and yelled at me; 'What's the matter with you?' 'It isn't loaded!' When I racked the slide a 115grn. FMJ rattled across the counter top. Know what he said? 'That's really embarrassing!’ Yes, it was; and it, also, ended our friendship - too!

PS: Here's the unbelievable part: This guy, actually, owns a gun store - true! :eek:

The Tourist
March 21, 2004, 11:20 AM
I don't find it odd at all.

I was reading in the Parade section of the newspaper this morning about a letter sent to Marilyn Vos Savant about the occurence of rage lately, being road rage, air rage, etc. Ms. Savant thought it was because people were over-stressed.

I disagree. We hear so much about 'rights' today, "smokers' rights," and "welfare rights," etc that no one cares much about responsibility.

Some of these air-heads bark the response, "Well, if you are out in public, then you have no right to complain." BS. I don't surrender any rights I have to lunk-heads who are too rude to eat with civilized people.

This guy at the range feels HE has the right to bear arms. He inductively believes that his behavior is now righteous. However, what he fails to bring to the equation is that using his rights should not infringe on the public who enjoy their rights, as well.

The guy needs more than a lesson in range etiquette. He's just rude, and sounds like his whole psyche' needs an adjustment.

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 21, 2004, 11:44 AM
:what: What a MORON :barf:

45R,

Did you intervene?

45R
March 21, 2004, 01:33 PM
7.62FMJ - I had the child stop what he was doing and had the employee get the gun out of the childs hand. The mother pulled the child away from the counter and said dont touch that. After that I left. I was about ready to the 4 basic rules down his throat but I wasnt sure I wanted to create a huge scene in front of his wife, children and range employees. I had a mouthful of choice words........

Sorry guys it was late last night and I didnt put in all the little details.

How do you guys tactifully handle a situation like this? I seem to see this type of behavior more often than not? I usually leave the range when I get done shooting but I stuck around to enjoy an ice cream when this all went down.

Usually the range guys say something about it...but for some reason they this one was let go.............. I'm going to talk to the owner the next time I go about his employees being more strict.

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 21, 2004, 01:41 PM
Details

Homer : "ummm, uugghghg, ice cream"

You did good. You never know what type of reaction you may get.

45R
March 21, 2004, 01:50 PM
Details are good!

I posted that last night after watching 2 Hours of "The Shield" for the first time. Now I get to look for Season 1 and 2 on DVD for my list of gun related things I want!

ceetee
March 21, 2004, 02:04 PM
Hey! A gun range that also sells Ice Cream? My kind of place! If they had pizza too, I'd still be there!

deleteall
March 21, 2004, 02:12 PM
Burn him at the stake, too. He was in the wrong, but most of the "he's not worthy to be amongst us" responses would pretty much guarantee that it happens again.

Double Maduro
March 21, 2004, 02:17 PM
I never understood the stance that if someone makes a mistake, no matter how bad or not, he/she should be banned from the range.

I think it would be better to let them know about their mistake and have the RO show them the propper way to handle their firearm. This will at least give them the knowledge needed to hopefully not do it again.

If the attitude is bad then ban them. But by not taking the time to teach them, they have been locked into a lifetime of dangerous habits.

DM

hansolo
March 21, 2004, 02:22 PM
I belong to an outdoor range/club. I've been told of an ex-member who was competing in a 3-gun match; when he got to the shotgun stages, he had a bad showing....the guy FLIPS-OUT, starts screaming and smashes his shotgun on a wooden log. This all happened in about 10 seconds; the R.O. took the shotgun from the Idiot and told the Club Pres. what had happened; Idiot was kicked out of the club for life on the spot. Idiot called the Pres. the next week and begged to be let back in. The pres. told him where to shove his shotty.:rolleyes:

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 21, 2004, 02:23 PM
We hold each other to high standards; nothing wrong with that. Safe gun handling is a requirement to stay in the land of the living and unremorseful. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it is going to stop somewhere. Only PREVENTION can correct that problem.

I think we can help educate others without being condescending, and educate where needed. In the current climate, every ND or accidental shooting, especially with children, is a strike against all of us. Let us look at where he went wrong:

Swept people with the gun
Unlocked the gun and then laid it down
Left the gun unattended
Child reaches gun and pulls the trigger

If he had been using his brain, he could of left the lock on until he got to the range station, kept the gun in his possession whilst scavenging, gave the gun to the clerk to hold whilst he was scavenging, or CAME PREPARED with eye and hearing protection since gentleman decides to come in to qualify for his job
'
he apparently needs a gun for his job.

WonderNine
March 21, 2004, 06:07 PM
I wish the kid has shot him in the @$$ :mad:

Model520Fan
March 21, 2004, 09:23 PM
Sorry; in my opinion, tact is NOT called for. The sweep was SERIOUS, and it went downhill from there. Had it been in my presence, the kid wouldn't have gotten his hands on the gun, because it would have effectively been MINE by that time. I'm not too crazy about calling the police, particularly in a Nazi state like CA, but I know that police vary from city to city, county to county. I probably would have called them.

This guy needs a gun for his JOB? WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM WHEN HE'S ON THE JOB?

They didn't see him do all these things. YOU did. YOU have a moral responsibility to correct his behavior and prevent similar future behavior. Sane people can certainly disagree over what the best method is for doing that, but there is a strong chance that tact may not be part of the process. STRONG indication that this behavior is reckless and criminal is called for.

Not sorry for the rant. I hope it was useful.

Justin
March 21, 2004, 10:44 PM
Got swept by some wanker at a public range once.
Then he did it again.
Cut to: An impromptu safety lesson.

He didn't sweep me after that.

Some people are ignorant, educate them. If they won't learn, have them ejected from the range.

BTW, it's incidents like that which have convinced that a membership at a private range is the only way to go.

AJ Dual
March 22, 2004, 12:39 PM
Perhaps little cards with the four rules printed on them would be a good idea. Maybe spelled out a little more explicitly for the newbie who will try and insert his own mental exceptions... Just hand it to the guy conversationally. If it's not an immediate threat and egregious behavior, getting in someone's face can have an opposite effect, and either discourage a new shooter, or make him avoid structured and safe shooting environments.

Here's a first shot at it:

The Four Rules of Gun Safety:

- Treat every gun as if it is loaded. No matter what it's condition is.

- Never point your gun at something you aren't willing to destroy. No matter if it's unloaded, being transported, or removed from it's case for shooting.

- Allways keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

- Know your target, and what lies beyond it. Know where the bullets you fire are going.

If you follow these rules, you can eliminate the possibility of an incident that can make you, or the rest of the law-abiding gun owining public look bad, and be used against us to take away our rights.

This way, instead of chastizing someone, you're inviting them to do something positive to help out themselves and RKBA. If presented in a friendly manner, only the most major jerks would respond negatively.

Catching more files with honey and all that...

Diggler
March 22, 2004, 01:25 PM
He probably thought he was being Mr. Joe Responsible too, waiting to take the gun lock off in the store and all...

:rolleyes:

Drjones
March 22, 2004, 01:48 PM
See? That's why I didn't meet you there! :D :p

Model520Fan
March 22, 2004, 01:52 PM
Nice link, Drjones. Excellent web site, excellent magazine. I sure wish the founder were still around.

Drjones
March 22, 2004, 02:02 PM
My sig you mean?

Thanks.

If you enjoyed that you simply MUST read chapter four of Pat Buchanan's book, "Death of the West."

Too bad that doesn't exist online, or that would be my link instead. It shows how the modern left is actually communist.

Third_Rail
March 22, 2004, 02:07 PM
What do you mean, "actually"? They're communist. Some Brady or Feinstein quote has them directly saying that they support socialism.

Drjones
March 22, 2004, 02:14 PM
I meant "actually" as in, "in reality."

Perhaps it was poor grammar...

But do not misunderstand me nor them; it is not their economic beliefs that bother me, and when I call them "communists," I do not refer to an economic system.

Communism as an economic system is dead. The new communism is cultural communism; cultural marxism. Read the article in my sig for a better understanding of what I mean, and then read Buchanan's book "Death of the West," particularly chapter four. The book is worth the price just for that one chapter. (Though the entire book is worth its weight in gold.)

Third_rail; where do you think political correctness comes from? The leftist media and movies? They all have their roots in communist doctrine.

Third_Rail
March 22, 2004, 02:25 PM
My favorite example of how leftists take ideas from the WRONG sources is the 1968 GCA. Wasn't that lifted almost word for word from Hitler's ban? Gee, handy....

And I understand what you mean about cultural communism. Today I spoke with an accquantance in England. We of course got talking about firearms, and he basically said that if one person wouldn't be able to use them safely, no one should be allowed to have them. That really struck me dumb...


I will read the article, btw.

Drjones
March 22, 2004, 02:27 PM
And BUY THE BOOK!!!

They have it for $2.00 used at amazon.com!!!!!

RustyHammer
March 22, 2004, 03:21 PM
:banghead:

Third_Rail
March 22, 2004, 03:36 PM
D'oh, didn't know that. Orders away!

The Goose
March 22, 2004, 03:42 PM
I have been shooting for just under 2 months now so as a "newbie" I would like to throw in my .02 on this matter. I hit the range 4 - 6 times per week and have been around or met a lot of folks in the last few weeks. Almost all are extremely safety conscious. The ones that are not so safe seem to fall into 2 categories either new shooters like myself or experienced shooters who are sloppy and just do not give a rats behind. One of my first few trips to the outdoor pistol range a fellow walks up as I was reloading and asks if it is ok to go down range and set up. I said sure and as my gun was already empty, locked open and pointing down range I figured I was OK so i just stood there. The guy stared at me for a moment and then in a firm yet polite voice said "hey, you know you are supposed to step behind the line while I go down range". I was embarassed, but I thanked him and stepped behind the line. I also went home and restudied the range rules. I will never make that mistake again. Since then I have seen others make the same mistake. I also noticed that no one said anything and feeling like a new guy I was hesitant so I did not say anything either. On Saturday I was shooting next to 2 guys. We were chatting and the one who is a member tells me that he only gets to shoot a few times a year, but has been a member for quite a while. At any rate the line was clear and I went downrange to change my target and as I am walking back the guy is loading up his gear including his pistol which is pointing down range as he is picking it up. So I tell him that he is supposed to stay behind the line while anyone is down range and he just goes "don't worry about it". I tell him that I am worried about in no uncertain terms. He just grabs his bag and heads for his car. As he walks away I see that not only did he not clean up his brass, but left his coffee and donut wrappers on the bench and ground. I followed him to the car and asked him to clean up his mess. He wanted to give me some crap, but I am a pretty big guy, a lot bigger then him and he went back and cleaned up his mess. To me the bottom line is this. I made a mistake out of inexperience and I needed to be corrected. The guy who corrected me was polite, but not overly nice, nor should he have been. The other guy that I spoke to just seemed to be an overall jerk, but as a member of the club I think it is my duty to do what I did. If he had just driven away I believe I would have reported him. The rule book at my range makes some mention of it being everyones responsibility to maintain safety at all times. I look to more senior members to offer help and when necessary correction and I think for the sake of safety that anyone who cannot take proper correction with grace should probably take up another hobby.

Nickotym
March 22, 2004, 03:45 PM
I cleaned up the text for spelling and grammar errors:



The Four Rules of Gun Safety:

- Treat every gun as if it is loaded. No matter what its condition is.

- Never point your gun at something you aren't willing to destroy. No matter if it's unloaded, being transported, or removed from its case for shooting.

- Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

- Know your target, and what lies beyond it. Know where the bullets you fire are going.

If you follow these rules, you can eliminate the possibility of an incident that can make you or the rest of the law-abiding gun owning public look bad and be used against us to take away our rights.

45R
March 22, 2004, 04:27 PM
See? That's why I didn't meet you there!

I think it would have been more fun if you would have showed up. We could have touched off the big bird while he was qualifying :)

keyhole
March 22, 2004, 04:36 PM
Reasons to love shooting at membership ranges! But sometimes ya still have to educate a few.

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