Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends


PDA






ryan3465
July 30, 2013, 11:15 PM
Hello Everyone!

First off, let me thank everyone on this forum for many hours of reading pleasure. Although I don't post on here very often, many an hour of my time is spent perusing and enjoying the discussions here. I am currently hosting a new podcast called Handgun Radio on the Firearms Radio Network, and I have been doing a little potential brainstorming for future show topics. One topic I've been considering is going over some of the most prevalent/famous handgun myths, rumors or urban legends. I thought that I might query the members of this forum and ask: what is your favorite or most heard handgun myth, rumor, or urban legend?

Thank you!
Ryan

If you enjoyed reading about "Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Guy Smiley
July 30, 2013, 11:17 PM
That dogs will talk to you if you own a .44 Special Bulldog revolver. :evil:

OptimusPrime
July 30, 2013, 11:22 PM
That someone would rather be shot with a .45 while wearing a bulletproof vest rather than a .22.

joesolo
July 30, 2013, 11:24 PM
I liked the one years back about Glocks being undetectable at security checkpoints. Remember all pastic? Pfffff

Guy Smiley
July 30, 2013, 11:25 PM
That a .22 short can't kill you. Yet the people who say this won't allow themselves to be shot with one. Interesting...

rcmodel
July 30, 2013, 11:26 PM
Glocks aim themselves magically and hit everything you shoot them at.

SO you can hold them sideways over your head while going the Gangnam Style, and you will still hit everything within your field of fire if you shoot all 17 rounds.



The other one I always like is:
All a .25 ACP is good for is PO'ing somebody you shot with it so he will come kill you.

Ever see the ballistics gel specs on a .25 ACP FMJ bullet??

I thought not.

rc

ryan3465
July 30, 2013, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the great responses everyone! And Joesolo, i remember that Glock being undetectable garbage. I'm 24, and i remember renting a book from my JR. High library about guns that had a section on Glocks that said "96% Plastic, Glocks can easily pass through metal detectors". Being a smartass 13 year old, I showed it to my teacher who was a gun guy as well and said "if it's only 96% plastic, won't that 4% of steel set off the metal detectors?" Last time I rented a book on guns from a public institution.

ryan3465
July 30, 2013, 11:32 PM
rcmodel,

I completely agree with you on the .25 ACP thing. While it may not instantly STOP an attack, it still hurts! My grandfather who used to carry a small .22 revolver used to say "I don't give a damn what anyone says about caliber; ain't nobody that wants to get shot with anything. Anybody that tells you otherwise is a damn fool."

Guy Smiley
July 30, 2013, 11:37 PM
rcmodel,

I completely agree with you on the .25 ACP thing. While it may not instantly STOP an attack, it still hurts! My grandfather who used to carry a small .22 revolver used to say "I don't give a damn what anyone says about caliber; ain't nobody that wants to get shot with anything. Anybody that tells you otherwise is a damn fool."
Indeed. Anyone who might question the validity of a .25 ACP sidearm would do well to watch this: http://youtu.be/vm3CP3ijPIs

rcmodel
July 30, 2013, 11:38 PM
a section on Glocks that said "96% Plastic,Well, that was way wrong in the first place.

The steel slide, steel barrel, steel springs, steel sear, steel striker, steel lined magazine, and steel magazine spring is for sure way more then 4% of a Glock.

I'd almost have to guess it's closer to 50/50 steel & plastic, but that's just a WAG.

Then you still have to throw in the metallic cartridges, that are all metal except for the powder inside them, to make it shoot anyway.

So now we are much closer to 25% plastic / 75% metal I would also WAG.

rc

ryan3465
July 30, 2013, 11:46 PM
Oh I knew it was way wrong when I saw it. It was a book called "Guns of Law Enforcement" and it was clearly intended for a younger crowd. I knew enough from reading magazines and forums that that was total BS.

At least I didn't believe John McClane and say that "it's not plastic! It's a Glock 7 and it's porcelain!" :)

Guy Smiley
July 30, 2013, 11:46 PM
I just thought of a great one. In all your westerns (classic and modern), we see gunslingers loading all six chambers of their revolvers and then holstering them. Nope. The only people who did that would likely wind up severely injured or dead as there was no hammer block or transfer bar type safety on guns of that era. There were a few exceptions to the rule such as the Colt 1860 Army where the hammer could be rested between chambers, but those were VERY expensive pistols to own at the time. Twenty bucks I believe. In those days, a small fortune.

Jaymo
July 30, 2013, 11:50 PM
Ratshot/snakeshot will ruin your barrel.
That's my favorite.

Barry the Bear
July 30, 2013, 11:53 PM
That glocks are reliable

rcmodel
July 30, 2013, 11:58 PM
we see gunslingers loading all six chambers of their revolvers and then holstering them.Well, good point.

But I can GayRonTeeYa if I was Wyatt Earp, or Dallas Stoudenmire on my way over to a gun-fight, or a night keeping piece in a cowtown??

I would have 6 rounds in my Colt SAA's!!

Some things you might do today are more dangerous then other things you might have done in 1880!
And no good reason for them to be in 2013 at the range or hunting.

For everyday carry?
Certainly not.

But hoofing it on over to a gunfight in the O.K. corral??
You betcha it would be stuffed full as I could get it!!!

rc

Guy Smiley
July 30, 2013, 11:59 PM
That a Glock will make you Neo.

Guy Smiley
July 31, 2013, 12:00 AM
Well, good point.

But I can GayRonTeeYa if I was Wyatt Earp, or Dallas Stoudenmire on my way over to a gun-fight, or a night keeping piece in a cowtown??

I would have 6 rounds in my Colt SAA's!!

Some things you might do today are more dangerous then other things you might have done in 1880!
And no good reason for them to be in 2013 at the range or hunting.

For everyday carry?
Certainly not.

But hoofing it on over to a gunfight in the O.K. corral??
You betcha it would be stuffed full as I could get it!!!

rc
Agreed.

rcmodel
July 31, 2013, 12:01 AM
That a Glock will make you Neo.
I have no idea what that means??

rc

Jim K
July 31, 2013, 12:02 AM
That anyone hit anywhere in the body or nearby will be killed instantly. (Many, many shows.)

That the good guy can be shot in the shoulder with a .45-70, ol' doc digs out the bullet, and the good guy is practicing his fast draw next day. (Gunsmoke)

That a cop can look at a wound from 30 feet away and tell that it is from a 9 millimeter. (CSI Miami)

That all cops are gun experts and expert shots. (Many shows.)

That a 22 "sniper" rifle comes apart, can be packed in a briefcase, then can be taken out, assembled, the scope put on, and can hit the target at 1000 yards. (Forget the show, but the rifle was a AR 7.)

That a snubnose revolver can be concealed in a bikini without anyone noticing. (Charlie's Angels.)

Jim

Guy Smiley
July 31, 2013, 12:09 AM
I have no idea what that means??

rc
I was making a reference to "The Matrix" and how people think they've become a superhero just because they lay hands on a modern firearm. :D

rcmodel
July 31, 2013, 12:12 AM
Hmmmm? :confused:

I Do not Remember looking for sub-nose revolvers in the bikinis when Charlie's Angels was on TV??

Are we talking about the same time frame in our lives??

I can't even remember looking at the J.C. Higgins guns in the new Sears & Roebuck catalogs much before about age 15 or 16!

Never mind!
My mind drifts sometimes. :o

rc

Guy Smiley
July 31, 2013, 12:12 AM
That silencers make even the biggest, baddest caliber as quiet as a gnat's fart.

Risky
July 31, 2013, 12:14 AM
That there is something 'magical' about .22 LR that makes it more lethal than a centerfire round, i.e. 'it doesn't exit and bounces around in the head/chest' often followed up with that they know an E.R. doc/paramed/x-ray tech that can corroborate these 'facts'.

Jim K
July 31, 2013, 12:20 AM
I well remember a bikini-clad(?) Jaclyn Smith arresting the bad guy after reaching behind her back and whipping out a Colt (DS?). I confess that I was not really concentrating on the gun, but I wondered where it had been concealed. (Of course, the answer was nowhere; on those shows the prop man passed the gun to the actor just before the scene was shot, and the guns were often plastic copies anyway.)

Jim

horsemen61
July 31, 2013, 12:43 AM
RC I love your replies the one about Gangaham style had my laughing so hard i was in tears at the mere thought of someone doing that :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

JoePfeiffer
July 31, 2013, 01:09 AM
Armor-piercing Teflon-coated bullets. Black Talon bullets causing extra-harmful wound channels.

sent using CPIP (see RFC 1149)

rcmodel
July 31, 2013, 01:20 AM
Black Talon!!

Now that opens up another whole can of worms!!

How about the 'razor sharp blades' on the expanded Black Talons cutting rubber surgical gloves and doctors hands to shreds while removing the bullets from the victims?

And then the doctors will get AIDS from the victims blood while trying to save them.

Seriously, that was some of the BS put out by the news media & anti-gun crowd while the Black Talon controversy was going on.


the one about Gangaham style had my laughing so hard i was in tears at the mere thought of someone doing thatBut, that's unfortunately, the way they do it.

If they used the sights and squeezed them off on the target???

Not near so many baby's, little kids, and grandmas in the collateral damage reports on the evening news.


rc

monotonous_iterancy
July 31, 2013, 01:36 AM
What were Black Talon rounds anyway? Why were they singled out?

il.bill
July 31, 2013, 01:39 AM
Are we talking about the same time frame in our lives??

rc

Ah - the good ol' days.

Grunt Medic TXARNG
July 31, 2013, 02:17 AM
What were Black Talon rounds anyway? Why were they singled out?
Just expanding hollow points that were unfortunate to have a somewhat ominous sounding name. Their capabilities and supposed hazards were blown all out of proportion in the popular media, of course (I know, you're shocked) and the factory responded by restricting them for LEOs only - which only increased their reputation.

oldbear
July 31, 2013, 03:32 AM
I'm surprised that no one else has brought this one up. It's an oldie, "They all fall to hard ball," reference the .45 ACP round. Or another along the same vein, Hit a man in the thumb with a .45 round and it will knock him off his feet.

pendennis
July 31, 2013, 10:38 AM
I'm surprised that no one else has brought this one up. It's an oldie, "They all fall to hard ball," reference the .45 ACP round. Or another along the same vein, Hit a man in the thumb with a .45 round and it will knock him off his feet.
You forgot to add "...and spin him around twice!" :D :D :D

LeonCarr
July 31, 2013, 11:17 AM
"Little lady, this snub nose .357 is perfect for you."

An actual quote from a salesman to a customer at a gunshop.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

MarshallDodge
July 31, 2013, 11:42 AM
That there is such a thing as a "perfect" handgun.

Comrade Mike
July 31, 2013, 12:00 PM
Black talon is still sold. It's the same bullet recoated and renamed. I can't remember the name of the ammunition right now to save my life. It's that early onset Alzheimer's getting to me.

My favorite handgun myth is that you can shoot someone wearing a bullet proof vest and they won't even feel it

Potatohead
July 31, 2013, 12:01 PM
That there is something 'magical' about .22 LR that makes it more lethal than a centerfire round, i.e. 'it doesn't exit and bounces around in the head/chest' often followed up with that they know an E.R. doc/paramed/x-ray tech that can corroborate these 'facts'.
I've heard this one a lot

Njal Thorgeirsson
July 31, 2013, 12:02 PM
The eternal myths of defensive handguns:
1) caliber is the absolute most important consideration in a defensive firearm
2) the .45 ACP will stop anything it hits; other handgun calibers simply aren't as good for self defense. Its the "proven manstopper"

Potatohead
July 31, 2013, 12:05 PM
Has anyone said anything about the Capone gang putting garlic on their bullets to cause gangrene yet? (I think it was garlic)

Arkansas Paul
July 31, 2013, 12:12 PM
Hit a man in the thumb with a .45 round and it will knock him off his feet.

Yeah, I've heard this one a lot. 9mm and .40 are anemic but a .45 will stop them in their tracks every time. :rolleyes:

Black talon is still sold. It's the same bullet recoated and renamed. I can't remember the name of the ammunition right now to save my life.

Winchester Ranger.

Comrade Mike
July 31, 2013, 12:37 PM
Thanks Paul!

I have to jump on this one too. ".40 is a high pressure round that will wear your gun faster". I am a .40 hater but this one really drives me nuts so Ill defend it. 9mm and .40 have more or less the same 35,000 psi pressure ceiling.

Schwing
July 31, 2013, 12:50 PM
Personally, I think the worst gun myths are the "statistics" that seem to come out of thin air.

"You are 7 times more likely to shoot a loved one than an intruder" Is a perfect example. I have searched long and hard for any study ever done on this and have come up with nothing. It is a "statistic" that has just been repeated so many times that people believe it.

I don't remember the real numbers but you can find them on gunfacts.org. The gun grabbers lump suicides, gang violence and domestic violence into every stat they can and even include people as old as 24 when referring to "children".

NavyLCDR
July 31, 2013, 12:53 PM
Glocks aim themselves magically and hit everything you shoot them at.

SO you can hold them sideways over your head while going the Gangnam Style, and you will still hit everything within your field of fire if you shoot all 17 rounds.

rc

They use these:

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/nyte-sytes.jpg

Schwing
July 31, 2013, 12:54 PM
Sorry, gunfacts.info.

I would also add the myth popular in Hollywood that a "Bullet proof" vest will stop most bullets. Tell that do anyone who has ever taken a hit from any non-handgun caliber rifle.

Cosmoline
July 31, 2013, 12:58 PM
we see gunslingers loading all six chambers of their revolvers and then holstering them.

Well I'm not sure that's a myth. Remember there were no four rules of gun safety. There was barely ANY gun safety. You routinely see photos of men leaning over the barrels of repeating rifles, and the accounts of reckless conduct with arms are not difficult to find from that period. There may have been some gunslingers who knew enough to not load the 6th chamber, but I've seen no proof that leaving one empty was widespread, or even that Colt warned people about it. This was before product liability even existed. Lifespans were half what they are today. And if someone died because he dropped his revolver, it would likely be a subject for jokes. Heck how many of these guys were drunk as skunks while carrying?

One incident that springs to mind is Earp dropping his revolver, resulting in a discharge.

There are those "Hammer the Hammer" ads from Iver Johnson that suggest people did know about the problems loading 6 in other revolvers at least by the early 20th century. But in an age when nobody even wore ear protection, how seriously did anyone take the risk?

MedWheeler
July 31, 2013, 01:19 PM
That one can use a silencer on a revolver (might work okay on a Russian nagant.)

That a gun, especially a "cheap" gun, can "just go off."

Trunk Monkey
July 31, 2013, 02:36 PM
Just expanding hollow points that were unfortunate to have a somewhat ominous sounding name. Their capabilities and supposed hazards were blown all out of proportion in the popular media, of course (I know, you're shocked) and the factory responded by restricting them for LEOs only - which only increased their reputation.

One of my favorites myths concerning Black Talons (AKA Winchester Ranger Same eXact Thing) is that they were ever restricted for sale to Law Enforcement only.

I also like the myht that you'll blow your foot off if you carry a round in the chamber of a modern firearm (as noted above the 1800's era revolvers weren't safe to carry with a fully loaded cylinder)

481
July 31, 2013, 02:48 PM
My favorite myth is "knockdown power".

Arkansas Paul
July 31, 2013, 02:49 PM
That a gun, especially a "cheap" gun, can "just go off."

Some uneducated gun owners have that view of Glocks because of the lack of an external safety. I'm no Glock fan, but I know thats not the case.

rd_zzyzx
July 31, 2013, 03:33 PM
(I just noticed you asked for Handgun myths... I messed up)

That a 5.56 NATO round is the most lethal round, if it wasn't true our military wouldn't use it.

An AR-15 is more dangerous than a wood stock Mini-14.

A fore-grip's only use is for criminal activity.

You can't reload a revolver as fast as a semi-auto handgun.

You only need seven rounds for any situation.

Hollow points are more dangerous to shoot than full metal jacket. (IMO FMJ over penetration may cause more collateral damage to bystanders).

A flash suppressor is a silencer.

Military calibers should not be owned by civilians because they are more lethal. Clearly a 7.62 NATO is much more dangerous than a .308 or maybe a .30-06.

Guns kill people.

The only purpose for handguns is to shoot people, i.e., no hunting purpose, if you own a handgun you are showing that you have a propensity to kill people and that you feel that it is a natural good thing to do.

Gun oil isn't any good unless it is $10.00 an ounce.

oneounceload
July 31, 2013, 05:17 PM
Hit someone in the hand with a ,45 and the force will make their arm swing around so bad and knock them in the head and knock them face down.

That XXX (fill in the brand) has "knock-down" power - if it did, or course, the shooter would also be knocked down

9MM is the minimum for SD

That you NEED a gun with 17 in the mag, plus a spare mag, BUG and a spare mag for that on your person 24/7

1911Tuner
July 31, 2013, 07:01 PM
. There were a few exceptions to the rule such as the Colt 1860 Army where the hammer could be rested between chambers,

Youcan do that with an 1873 SAA, too. Just lower the hammer nose/firing pin so it rests between the case rims. Of course, if the gun is dropped and lands on the hammer the firing pin will be damaged...but it could be done.

OptimusPrime
July 31, 2013, 07:13 PM
How about Hollywood silencers that barely make a "ppphhhhhht..." sound, totally silent.

JoePfeiffer
July 31, 2013, 07:17 PM
Also, the Black Talon bullet was indeed black, due to a (googlegooglegoogle) lubalox coating, which somehow became Teflon when the media reported on it.

sent using CPIP (see RFC 1149)

rcmodel
July 31, 2013, 07:21 PM
if the gun is dropped and lands on the hammer the firing pin will be damaged...Actually, on a properly fitted Colt SAA, the firing pin cannot reach the rear face of the cylinder even with the hammer down between chambers.

It's just a frog hair too short to reach anything except air with the hammer down between cartridge rims.

The real risk is the cylinder is not locked in place in that position.

So if an outside force turns the cylinder, the firing pin will drag across 1/2 a live primer before the cylinder is locked by the bolt.

rc

jad0110
July 31, 2013, 08:44 PM
That a 5.56 NATO round is the most lethal round, if it wasn't true our military wouldn't use it.

An AR-15 is more dangerous than a wood stock Mini-14.

And to add to it, that AR-15s can blow up tanks! I heard that one on the news once, can't remember where. This one makes my brain hurt, as I know an AR would be lucky to scratch the paint on a tank.

Here's another that just won't die from the much debunked Kellerman study: a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family than an intruder.

That guns apparently or only useful in the hands of cops or criminals. I guess everyone else must be genetically incapable of operating a firearm. :banghead:

jad0110
July 31, 2013, 09:00 PM
Oh yeah, and one more from the movies:

Guns will blow up a car's gas tank everytime, but won't penetrate the door the good guy is using for "cover". :scrutiny:

shafter
July 31, 2013, 09:00 PM
I just thought of a great one. In all your westerns (classic and modern), we see gunslingers loading all six chambers of their revolvers and then holstering them. Nope. The only people who did that would likely wind up severely injured or dead as there was no hammer block or transfer bar type safety on guns of that era. There were a few exceptions to the rule such as the Colt 1860 Army where the hammer could be rested between chambers, but those were VERY expensive pistols to own at the time. Twenty bucks I believe. In those days, a small fortune.

I doubt carrying 5 in the chamber was a widespread practice. Most saw six holes in the cylinder and put a cartridge in each one. I see people doing foolish things with guns frequently and read about them here on THR constantly. Most cowboys and other people of that era weren't "gun people" and Eddie Eagle sure wasn't around to give lessons.


Well I'm not sure that's a myth. Remember there were no four rules of gun safety. There was barely ANY gun safety. You routinely see photos of men leaning over the barrels of repeating rifles, and the accounts of reckless conduct with arms are not difficult to find from that period. There may have been some gunslingers who knew enough to not load the 6th chamber, but I've seen no proof that leaving one empty was widespread, or even that Colt warned people about it. This was before product liability even existed. Lifespans were half what they are today. And if someone died because he dropped his revolver, it would likely be a subject for jokes. Heck how many of these guys were drunk as skunks while carrying?

One incident that springs to mind is Earp dropping his revolver, resulting in a discharge.

There are those "Hammer the Hammer" ads from Iver Johnson that suggest people did know about the problems loading 6 in other revolvers at least by the early 20th century. But in an age when nobody even wore ear protection, how seriously did anyone take the risk?
__________________


Great points there.

BCRider
July 31, 2013, 10:14 PM
What about the "old saw" that the then new .357Magnum bullet would "split a car's engine block and take out the bad guy on the other side"?

I Do not Remember looking for sub-nose revolvers in the bikinis when Charlie's Angels was on TV??



And I wasn't looking for Barbara Eden's belly button that was hidden by her bloomers in "I Dream Of Genie".... :D

Ah yes... I wonder how many of these otherwise horrid shows were hits due to being watched religiously by pre- and freshly pubescent young boys that were just beginning to understand and embrace " la difference".... :D

wgaynor
July 31, 2013, 10:35 PM
Funniest one I ever heard was about Hi-Points only being good for boat anchors. Granted, they are the Ford Focus of automobiles, but they do work.

Jim K
July 31, 2013, 10:41 PM
The .357 Magnum breaking an engine block is no myth; I know because I have done it. The old engine blocks and water jackets were fairly thin cast iron and could be broken pretty easily. I once ran some tests using .357 cases loaded with 9mm FMJ bullets and they pretty well tore up engine blocks, valve camshafts and carburetors. With modern aluminum blocks the damage would probably be even greater.

(I never had a bullet go all the way through a block, but the went through the valve covers and the carburetors with no problem. I couldn't find any volunteers to stand behind them, though.)

Jim

lowercase
July 31, 2013, 10:45 PM
That dogs will talk to you if you own a .44 Special Bulldog revolver.

That's why I bought mine! :D

Rom828
July 31, 2013, 11:17 PM
"You can use smokeless in a black powder gun, just not as much"
The 5.56 round kills due to "hydrostatic shock" from its extreme speed.
"you can bring down an airplane with an AR" from Jesse Jackson
If you know how to do it you can reach out and pull the slide off a Beretta 92, thus disabling the gun.
Col. Cooper said, "you can carry around a 25acp, that's fine. But never load it because if you shoot someone and they find out about it, they will be very angry.
Diane Degette, house representative from Colorado said "let people buy as many high capacity magazines as they want until they are banned. Some day they will shoot them and not have them anymore" (she didn't now you just reload more ammunition into them).
All imported handguns are "Saturday night specials".

1911Tuner
August 1, 2013, 05:02 AM
It's just a frog hair too short to reach anything except air with the hammer down between cartridge rims.

All that I've done it with, the pin will sit below the rear of the case rims, which...while it won't lock the cylinder in place...provides enough resistance that you'd have to work pretty hard to get the cylinder to turn. In the .45 caliber guns, the pin is lightly wedged between two adjacent rims. In .44 Specials...it will actually touch the cylinder...unless I can't believe my lyin' eyes.

So if an outside force turns the cylinder, the firing pin will drag across 1/2 a live primer before the cylinder is locked by the bolt.

I always checked for too-easy cylinder rotation. Once it's in a holster, the chances of that are pretty slim anyway.

Dain Bramage
August 1, 2013, 12:24 PM
That the good guy can be shot in the shoulder with a .45-70, ol' doc digs out the bullet, and the good guy is practicing his fast draw next day. (Gunsmoke)

In the old days of non-arcing, stand alone TV episodes, a shoulder was not an important muskuloskeletal joint with arteries and nerves, but more of a ballistic meat block. Getting shot added dramatic tension, but you wanted all the standard players back to form for the next show. Plus, people were much tougher back then (I mean the 1950's and 60's). How else do you explain bullet-bras and girdles? Okay, maybe only the women were tougher.

CajunBass
August 1, 2013, 12:45 PM
That 38 P+ ammo is the hammer of Thor.

50 cal "sniper rifles" will knock down airplanes with one shot. I'll bet a lot of WW II fighter pilots and bomber gunners will/would have disputed that one. ;)

Jim K
August 1, 2013, 07:39 PM
The trouble with the lies of the anti-gun gang is that they sound funny to us, but the suckers out there believe them.

But it has always bothered me more when I read nonsense about guns from someone like Jeff Cooper who should know better and, I note, never volunteered to be shot with a .25.

Jim

BCRider
August 1, 2013, 08:12 PM
JimK, thanks for that. I'd have thought it was pretty far fetched but I do recall that some varieties of cast iron can be quite brittle. I'm guessing that the old blocks and even some newer ones were made from such metal. Or maybe it's still the case. After all they choose the alloy for the good rigidity, low porosity and other features aside from stopping bullets.... :D

I guess I can see the block cracking but the idea that it would penetrate had me going. A feature lack which you confirmed.

Your results on the carbs and similar is likely why we don't see armoured vests with carbs and throttle bodies hanging from the material..... :D

YZ
August 2, 2013, 12:04 AM
5.7x28 is cop killing ammo.

Laser target designator is a precise aiming device.

Anything issued to Special Forces is the best for me.

Nothing ever stops an AK from firing. Ever.

The Army switched to 9 mm because it did not know better.

CapnMac
August 2, 2013, 04:26 AM
Not a myth--the Teflon "thing" came about because a company in France was going to import a line of handgun ammo called "Arcane." The primary features of those were that the rounds were not cats, but lathe-turned (to a 60-70º cone) from a brass alloy barstock. Since these rounds would have zippy velocities, the engineers came up with coating them in teflon-like coating to go a little easier on the rifling of the pistols that shot them.

Like many small operations with insufficient capital and under-sophisticated business plans, they folded before really opening. But, the ninnyhammers were convinced that the ammo was as common as crackerjacks. Yet, everyplace the press went to get a box, they were thwarted. Except that was right about the time that the Black Talon was being marketed. This was a match made in media heaven. For comparison, Hydra-Shoks were just coming out, too (and with some built to LE spec rounds, not LE only restricted); yet these were not evil CKB that went through vests like they were rice paper.

Myth--all semi-auto copies of FA arms only need 30, 40 seconds with a screwdriver (maybe a file) to be remade as FA again.

Myth--all dropped arms go off; FA arms go off until the scene gets boring.

Myth--all FA are heavy and awkward and knock down whatever hapless sap picks one up--unless they are the righteous Hero, in which case they need not aim at all, and will be crack shots from the hip (which is made easy, as their weapon will never run out of ammo or the barrel get too hot, or the like).

Myth--evil, twisted, snipe spends his entire life to hone his shooting skills (and shoots everything to identical accuracy, from a PPK to a .338 to a 14.7). His scope has the zoom capacity of an 800mm telephoto lens.
But, a housewife can be taught to shoot with one or two-dozen rounds in a single session. After which she'll shoot 1/8 or 1/4MOA, and will be able to easily peg the bad gut in an an arm or leg, so that the PD will take the BG straight to prison.

Myth--LEO regularly shoot people, like once every other shift; this is why every LEO is a crack shot, and expert in all firearms. (There's a bon mot out there that more people were shot in a single Miami Vice episode, than we shot in Miami during a season of the series.)

leadcounsel
August 2, 2013, 04:31 AM
Hollywood nearly always gets it wrong.

Aiming a gun doesn't always result in a 'cocking' noise...

Getting shot doesn't throw a person 10 feet backwards...

beatledog7
August 2, 2013, 07:29 AM
The Cooper .25Auto comments remind me of my favorite gun myth (raises shields): "All guns are always loaded."

This one, while clearly false, is worshipped as Gospel by tons of otherwise rational gun people.

Carl N. Brown
August 2, 2013, 07:50 AM
^ All guns should be treated with the respect due a lethal, loaded weapon.

Even then, you will probably find people lamenting "Honest officer I thought it was unloaded."

I have been at a gun show and at a gun shop when folks brought in guns they had inherited but did not want, and they had been left fully loaded by Granpa or Uncle.

So until I have unloaded them, "All guns are always loaded." And I still don't trust me to know the ins and outs of all guns, so I treat 'em like lethal loaded weapons.

(My Glenfield 99G, I could pull the mag tube, dump all loose rounds in my hand, reinsert the tube, eject 1 round from the chamber, and there would be a 2nd round in the feed lips, and sometimes a 3rd round in the feed way if I was shooting flat nosed .22LR.)

beatledog7
August 2, 2013, 08:36 AM
All guns should be treated with the respect due a lethal, loaded weapon....So until I have unloaded them, "All guns are always loaded."

Yes, but note the "until." If there is a legitimate until, there cannot be an always.

Since there are times when you can accurately say "this gun is now unloaded," then the statement "All guns are always loaded" has to be false.

YZ
August 2, 2013, 08:42 AM
It's not like that. All guns are presumed loaded until proven otherwise. The simplified statement is not to be dissected literally. It is a boiled down mnemonic rule.

GoWolfpack
August 2, 2013, 09:05 AM
Take off your shoes beatledog, for you are trodding on sacred ground.

mdemetz
August 2, 2013, 09:17 AM
Guns will blow up a car's gas tank everytime, but won't penetrate the door the good guy is using for "cover".
Also overturned couches, kitchen tables and refrigerator doors are good cover indoors.:rolleyes:

In the old days of non-arcing, stand alone TV episodes, a shoulder was not an important muskuloskeletal joint with arteries and nerves, but more of a ballistic meat block. Getting shot added dramatic tension, but you wanted all the standard players back to form for the next show. Plus, people were much tougher back then (I mean the 1950's and 60's). How else do you explain bullet-bras and girdles? Okay, maybe only the women were tougher.

After watching years of Gunsmoke, I wondered why Marshall Dillon's arms had not fallen off.:)

highlander 5
August 2, 2013, 10:13 AM
I was at a gun show and watched a gun shop owner tell a customer that he couldn't use a pre ban hi cap mag in the post ban P89 he had just purchased.

beatledog7
August 2, 2013, 10:23 AM
Take off your shoes beatledog, for you are trodding on sacred ground.

I know; I get a lot of blowback on this point. But that doesn't make it less a myth. After all, there's an element of the sacred to all myths.

Jim Watson
August 2, 2013, 10:33 AM
Hit a man in the thumb with a .45 round and it will knock him off his feet.

Had that one from an Expert Genius signing up at the gun club last week; except it was the pinkie finger. But we took his money anyhow.


There is some misinformation on the gunboards, too.
The French Arcane (and GTV) bullets that I have seen were bare copper.
The US made KTW armor piercing bullets were indeed Teflon coated. Nothing to do with the gun barrel, the first and second generation KTWs had copper half jackets to take the rifling, it was meant to increase penetration. Whether it did is debatable, but the intent was clear.

Anybody here ever actually fire a Black Talon into soft medium?
I have and the jacket really does peel back, split, and buckle into sharp points.
Will that hurt your giblets more than the irregular expanded mushroom of other brands?
Probably not, but it LOOKS wicked and it IS prickly to handle.

Old (19th century) instructions for the management of single action revolvers called for the use of the safety notch after loading six cartridges.

hariph creek
August 2, 2013, 03:20 PM
All guns make a random clicky safety-esque cocking noise when drawn.

People getting knocked down or flying backwards when shot.

Magazine springs will "take a set" if left loaded.

All American males are inherently accurate and knowledgeable with guns.

Women, especially petite women, should have tiny guns for self defense.

"I only need *X* because my *X* will be at *X* distance with *X* rounds fired."

"I prefer *X* so anything else is inferior!"



I'd compare a High-Point to a Yugo. Not a Ford Focus?

Mainsail
August 2, 2013, 04:06 PM
My favorite is the one where your home defense shotgun needs a nine shot tube and a side-saddle with six more shells. As though the bad guy is going to keep advancing on you after you touch off the first shot. :rolleyes:

phil dirt
August 2, 2013, 04:18 PM
that if you decide to carry a .25, you should file the front sight off. That way it won't hurt so much when it gets shoved up your butt.

Bobson
August 2, 2013, 04:33 PM
That someone would rather be shot with a .45 while wearing a bulletproof vest rather than a .22.
I would rather be shot with a .45 while wearing a vest, than be shot with a .22 without one.

shafter
August 2, 2013, 04:45 PM
Yes, but note the "until." If there is a legitimate until, there cannot be an always.

Since there are times when you can accurately say "this gun is now unloaded," then the statement "All guns are always loaded" has to be false.

I agree, I hate the statement "all guns are always loaded". It's dumb.

ojh
August 2, 2013, 04:47 PM
Recoil movement of a gun/slide starts only after the bullet has left the barrel.

Claims that recoil energy of a certain gun is directed directly backward, or partially upward, or just somewhere. Energy is a scalar, it has no direction. Anyone claiming otherwise is better to start re-writing some fundamental physics laws. Ironically, just about any other quantity that can be used to describe aspects of recoil - motion, velocity, momentum, force, impulse, rotation, torque and angular momentum - are vectors and have direction.

Bad follow-through will make your bullets hit the target sideways.

The smaller and finer sights your handgun has, the better you can hit the center of a bullseye.

zeke4351
August 2, 2013, 04:57 PM
Black talon is still sold. It's the same bullet recoated and renamed. I can't remember the name of the ammunition right now to save my life. It's that early onset Alzheimer's getting to me.

My favorite handgun myth is that you can shoot someone wearing a bullet proof vest and they won't even feel it

Winchester Ranger T

zeke4351
August 2, 2013, 05:00 PM
I agree, I hate the statement "all guns are always loaded". It's dumb.

It is treat all guns as if they were loaded. Don't be pointing at people etc.

Trunk Monkey
August 2, 2013, 05:28 PM
I’m not sure this counts as a myth but I was watching The Patriot Games today and in the Scene right before the attack on “Lord Snowden” the terrorists are sitting in a car in broad daylight loading magazines. Really? They didn’t have enough fore thought to load at least the magazines before they left home?

This instance is an extension of the myth that no one carries their weapon with a round in the chamber.

I especially like the scenes where the bad guy points what is apparently a functionally empty pistol at someone to intimidate them and then, to show he’s “serious”, rack the slide and chamber a round.

I also like the way the cops (in some shows) all stop and chamber a round before kicking in the bad guy’s door with the SWAT team

zeke4351
August 2, 2013, 05:31 PM
My favorites are bullet setback and over penetration. Bullet setback is something caused by all the new shooters playing with their gun too much. Also there is proof on YouTube that pushing the bullet down as far as it goes and shooting makes no difference not even in sound. A complete miss should be worried about, not over penetration of which I have never known of but one case and that was at very close range and two people died of one shot and that was of all things a.380. So there is another myth for you. The .380 does not have enough power for self defense.
Another one that amazes me is the special names and gimmicks of watered down ammo that the manufactures hype and sell as SD ammo to all the newbies. Critical Defense and Gaurd Dog come to mind. Soft shooting is not what should be worried about other than plinking ammo. What on earth make people think that SD ammo should be something different than LE ammo. Should it be needed I want the best there is when my life is in danger. There is so much false BS being spread around I hope you do start telling people the truth. All of the self proclaimed over night experts really worry me.

YZ
August 2, 2013, 05:37 PM
"Assault rifle".

To own a firearm you must to be a militia member. The Constitution says so.

If you are serious about defending yourself, you must carry cocked and locked.

In a defensive carry weapon hollow points indicate evil intent.

If you want to trust your gun, shoot some off the chart handloads and see if it cracks.

MIM parts are to be avoided like the plague.

To learn shooting with a scope, one is required to master the iron sights.

If I dress in camo and tactical for the shooting range, I will not be mistaken for a newbie.

Jude Law is what a Russian peasant soldier would look and act like.

The Mosin rifles were deliberately sighted to hit high, so you aim at the belt buckle and deliver a head shot.

Krinkov is what Russians call their SBR's.

An AR15 with the largest number of attachments is the winning ticket. Including a bayonet, in case the ammo runs out.

A cheaper scope with a higher magnification is the best buy.

Made in Germany = Excellent.

Made entirely in one building = Excellent.

If the gun blasts don't bother your ears, you are protected.

beatledog7
August 2, 2013, 06:07 PM
It is treat all guns as if they were loaded.

That I agree with, provided we recognize that sometimes a gun really is unloaded and that we must acknowledge the fact in order to do certain tasks involving them. Of course, we must also follow the other three rules as best is feasible regardless. But Cooper phrased it the way I stated: "All guns are always loaded."

And here's another myth: The 357Sig is hard to reload. I grant it's a little tricky compared to other pistol rounds, but if you treat it like a bottleneck rifle round and make careful bullet choices, it's very doable.

YZ
August 2, 2013, 06:15 PM
del

Hurryin' Hoosier
August 2, 2013, 06:23 PM
People trying to tell me that my Makarovs, my CZ vz.82, and my Radom P64 CZAK are "obsolete", "out-of-date", and/or "underpowered". To those people I say TTTHHHPPPFFFTTT!!! :neener:

barnbwt
August 2, 2013, 06:32 PM
"Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends"

Is it true that there is a place in a man's head, that if you shoot it, it will blow up?

:D ;)

TCB

GoWolfpack
August 2, 2013, 06:33 PM
Too bad Cooper is not here to defend himself against beatledog.
Do you believe Cooper's rules need to be defended? If they are the unassailable gospel, as many claim, they should stand on their own.

beatledog simply asserts, correctly, that Cooper's rule "all guns are always loaded" is demonstrably false. I can go to my safe this minute and find a dozen guns that are absolutely positively truly not loaded. I can pull the trigger and they will not go off because they are not loaded.

GoWolfpack
August 2, 2013, 06:50 PM
My favorite is the one where your home defense shotgun needs a nine shot tube and a side-saddle with six more shells. As though the bad guy is going to keep advancing on you after you touch off the first shot. :rolleyes:


My favorite is when people are willing to bet their lives that they'll only need one shot to scare off an attacker.

YZ
August 2, 2013, 06:54 PM
Ouch. I didn't really want this. Okay, Jeff Cooper was speaking to the uninitiated, unlike yourselves. Made it simple for them to get started somewhere.
He was not infallible. He was opinionated to a fault, an iconoclast in his own right, a conspiracy theorist and a blunt social commentator. I did learn something from him. My guns are "always loaded".

bk42261
August 2, 2013, 07:56 PM
no matter how sure we ALL are that the weapon is "unloaded" if you point it at me we have a problem.

beatledog7
August 2, 2013, 08:04 PM
We all agree on that, bk42261. I'd feel the same if someone intentionally or blatantly muzzled me. But to think anyone can go through life doing all the things we do with firearms without ever briefly and/or inadvertently muzzling anyone, ever...now there's a myth of epic proportions.

SDGlock23
August 2, 2013, 08:13 PM
I think the whole not having to aim a shotgun thing is one that sticks out in addition to others posted on here.

Oh yeah, the whole pistols suck and they're only good for fighting your way back to your rifle/shotgun is bull crap. Yes a rifle/shotgun is a better option, but very few folks carry a rifle/shotgun in their car and if they did encounter an issue, they need to use that handgun and get out of harms way, not grabbing your long gun and going back into the thick of it. For LEO's I can understand it somewhat better, but I think the phrase is ridiculous. For civilians, most don't have a rifle/shotgun accessible so it's their handgun and whatever reloads they have on them.

It kinda always irked me when some say the 10mm is like a .41 Magnum, which is total horse hockey. That's about all I can think of right now.

Double_J
August 2, 2013, 08:33 PM
Glocks are "better" than 1911's. That is what one of my co-workers believes because he sees the "torture tests" and only a glock could handle it. He also thinks that the only round you should ever need is the .45 ACP. I have discussed that some people can not shoot a .45 well, and a 9 mm or .40 would be a better choice, but he knows all and can not be wrong.

No marine would be caught dead using a pistol. I know for a fact that is not the case as a friend of mine was on a house clearing detail in Iraq a few years ago. He got into a situation where it was easier to drop the M4 and transition to the pistol due to the tight quarters. He also did not buy into the myth that the 9 mm is not a man-stopper, he used well placed shots to stop the bad guys (head shots and belt buckle shots work well).

RetiredUSNChief
August 2, 2013, 08:50 PM
The catch phrase "stopping power" that was ever so popular at one time.

It's my opinion that this is a common catch phrase that is taken so far beyond anything technically useful that it is meaningless. "Stopping power" is anything that stops your attacker from getting to you. There are too many factors involved to consider, especially between different calibers. In my opinion, "stopping power" is a dramatic catch phrase used to make one gun sound more impressive than another and is really only useful to people trying to sell you a gun. Ignore it.

Add "one-shot-stop" to that as well.

RetiredUSNChief
August 2, 2013, 09:02 PM
Oh I knew it was way wrong when I saw it. It was a book called "Guns of Law Enforcement" and it was clearly intended for a younger crowd. I knew enough from reading magazines and forums that that was total BS.

At least I didn't believe John McClane and say that "it's not plastic! It's a Glock 7 and it's porcelain!" :)

Totally agree. Unfortunately, it's also clearly indoctrinating the younger crowd. :mad:


Black talon is still sold. It's the same bullet recoated and renamed. I can't remember the name of the ammunition right now to save my life. It's that early onset Alzheimer's getting to me.

The Black Talon line of ammunition was completely discontinued in 2000. Ranger SXT, similar but not the same, came out shortly afterwards, without he Lubalox coating that the Black Talons had. The bullets weren't exactly identical, either.

In 2007, the Ranger SXT line was updated and renamed "Ranger T-series". Changes involved the dimensions of the hollowpoint and changes to the bullet petals to elongate them and enhance their stiffness.

In 2009 the Supreme Elite line released a new hollowpoint called the "Bonded PDX1". It's similar to the Ranger SXT, but has a bonded design to enhance bullet integrity when passing through other objects on the way to it's target...mainly to keep the sharp jacket edges from peeling off before they hit the real target.

;)

scaatylobo
August 2, 2013, 09:24 PM
Since the days of Jeff Cooper,they 1911 crowd has insisted that it is THE best 1 shot stopping round.

And the actual FACTS do not stop that crowd from still believing such silliness.

Those of us that do carry in the line of duty and also EDC,are fully aware that the 1911's are good old war horses [ yes I own 3 variants ].

BUT the 'teflon' guns are the most prolific and therefore THE most used in actual confrontations.

If you fully understand that it is SHOT PLACEMENT = PERIOD that will end a confrontation,then you know that its imperative that you carry a S/D handgun that you shoot VERY well.

Trunk Monkey
August 2, 2013, 09:25 PM
If you want a one shot stop you need an M110A2

OptimusPrime
August 2, 2013, 09:28 PM
"Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends"

Is it true that there is a place in a man's head, that if you shoot it, it will blow up?

:D ;)

TCB
Yes.....the gas tank.

Ohen Cepel
August 2, 2013, 09:34 PM
That a thug can pull the slide off the front of a Beretta 92.

Cars blow up when shot with a shotgun.

You can go to ANY gun show in America and buy ANYTHING you want for $50 with no paperwork.

Hurryin' Hoosier
August 2, 2013, 09:35 PM
Or, maybe, if someone spiked his inhaler with nitroglycerine. (That could be interesting.)

DonnyBrook13
August 2, 2013, 10:11 PM
One incident that springs to mind is Earp dropping his revolver, resulting in a discharge.


Patton did the same thing. I think it was indoors, some kind of grand dinner, and one of his pearl-handled revolvers went off somehow.

My favorite myth -- that a bullet will "knock people down" as in the movies, where you see victims flying off their feet and splatting against a wall. Maybe on another planet with different physics. I knew a guy with two .44 mag revolvers, always carried one his car, because he wanted something that "could knock them down."

Jim K
August 3, 2013, 12:27 AM
A couple of years ago I ran into a man who claimed to be a WWII Marine vet. He claimed that "real" Marines didn't have artillery or air support and never used rifles or pistols. They just went in and wiped out Japanese island fortresses with bayonets!

Now how does one call a man who claims to be a decorated veteran a complete idiot and a gawdawful liar to boot without seeming disrespectful to the real heroes? I just walked away.

Jim

YZ
August 3, 2013, 06:49 AM
Scattylobo:

1911 is not a round. Perhaps you meant 45 ACP.

J.C. never said it was "the" most powerful round. It was his choice for semi-autos.

YZ
August 3, 2013, 07:03 AM
RetiredUSN:

One-shot stopping power is based on statistics. When a large enough sample of incident reports is available, the probability of one gunshot wound being a fight stopper is calculated.

Many critical variables may be missing such as model, range, bullet construction, etc. It is not exact science, but is useful in comparison.

I have spent enough time in emergency rooms. A non-execution style .380 caliber gunshot almost guarantees an admission (though not a survival). A 45 ACP torso gunshot is most likely a DOA or close.

Any legitimate term can be abused and misplaced. Happens all the time, especially on the Internet.

Cryogaijin
August 3, 2013, 07:23 AM
Myth--evil, twisted, snipe spends his entire life to hone his shooting skills (and shoots everything to identical accuracy, from a PPK to a .338 to a 14.7). His scope has the zoom capacity of an 800mm telephoto lens. 800mm lens is just 16x power. Lots of scopes go that high.

Cryogaijin
August 3, 2013, 07:43 AM
That the 7.62x25 tokarev will go through a class II BPV

That the FN 57 is a 200 meter gun.

"I own an M4." (oh wait, that's a rifle myth.)

That putting a stock on a handgun makes it UBER dangerous, and only a criminal would do it.

That any handgun over 44 oz (I think that's the weight quoted in the AWB) maes it UBER dangerous, and only a criminal would do it.

One I beleived for many years: Only revolvers are good for arctic conditions. (My XD45c disagrees with that one, as did my Hi Point c9, and my Witness 10mm)

That a S&W .500 mag is the best "bear gun" in alaska. (Best is always a thorny issue, but I'd take a 12 gauge, thanks.)

That a VERY heavy trigger pull is a valid safety feature. (Thanks NYPD)

And I may be a bit of a biased purist, but: That you can get a 1911 in anything but .45 ACP single stack. (For me 1911 is synonymous with .45acp. I don't mind someone saying 1911 pattern, but a double stack 9mm is so far from the 1911 I consider it to be a different gun.)

That you need (insert gun here) for defense. (no, you need something that fits you, not someone marketing to you.)

That a .45acp firing solids is as good as a 9mm firing JHP.

JT-AR-MG42
August 3, 2013, 10:30 AM
+1 with CapnMac concerning the no teflon bullets myth.

I remember hearing the name Arcane, just cannot recall the context.

A friend with a FFL (FFL was needed to order ammo in those days) and I were buying and shooting the KTWs though.

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af268/JT-AR-MG42/KTW1_zps4f256b91.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/JT-AR-MG42/media/KTW1_zps4f256b91.jpg.html)
http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af268/JT-AR-MG42/KTW2_zps5a1f05d1.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/JT-AR-MG42/media/KTW2_zps5a1f05d1.jpg.html)

Green teflon coated solid brass -alloy- bullet. The bullets had a 'grease groove' turned out of the bearing surface of the bullet to reduce friction and resulting pressure.
Wish I had saved some of the carbine ammo to pull and put through a FAL.
The KTW did work as advertised though.

Shot up all of it except a box of .45 to save for carry.

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af268/JT-AR-MG42/p9s1_zpsae72a9dd.jpg (http://s1014.photobucket.com/user/JT-AR-MG42/media/p9s1_zpsae72a9dd.jpg.html)

While this ammo was never sold through commercial sporting goods outlets that I am aware of, by 1982 KTW no longer accepted orders from dealers
UNLESS it was on an official P.D. letterhead with payment to be made directly from the Police purchasing department.
No FFL checks were accepted.

I figure that, like John Thompson, KTW never figured bad guys would try to buy the ammo.

JT

scaatylobo
August 3, 2013, 01:56 PM
Sorry but ACTUAL FIGURES do not lie and the 1911 [ or course I meant the .45ACP - duh uh ],is not THE winner in one shot stops no matter where you look for that number.

I only wish that were so,then it would be all too easy to choose my S/D gun and caliber.

Newly published numbers show that the old .357 is still the number one, ONE shot stopping round.

I totally agree with the fact that ball .45 acp will do no better [ much worse I see ] than a really good anti personal 9 MM round.

AND with less recoil,you can hit more often and more accurately.

YZ
August 3, 2013, 02:50 PM
Scatylobo

Three-five-seven magnum is a revolver round primarily. It delivers more power than 45ACP. When 45 ACP is praised as gold standard, it is understood that it is only true for semi-automatic handguns.

MinnesotaFats
August 3, 2013, 03:03 PM
a poster said a myth is " that glocks are reliable" does anyone else here believe glocks are unreliable?

RetiredUSNChief
August 3, 2013, 03:40 PM
RetiredUSN:

One-shot stopping power is based on statistics. When a large enough sample of incident reports is available, the probability of one gunshot wound being a fight stopper is calculated.

Many critical variables may be missing such as model, range, bullet construction, etc. It is not exact science, but is useful in comparison.

I have spent enough time in emergency rooms. A non-execution style .380 caliber gunshot almost guarantees an admission (though not a survival). A 45 ACP torso gunshot is most likely a DOA or close.

Any legitimate term can be abused and misplaced. Happens all the time, especially on the Internet.


"Stopping power", as you said, is a combination of many factors and is not a truely quantifiable factor. One can certainly say, for example, that a .44 Magnum has more "stopping power" than a .22 Short. The terms is relative (qualitative vs quanitative). However, neither one has ANY "stopping power" if the target is not hit, or is not hit in an effective area.

And the argument goes beyond simply caliber, as well. Much as you said, bullet diameter, bullet mass, bullet design, and bullet velocity factor into this as well. Toss in the difference between types of guns (handguns or long guns) and you widen the field considerably. A .30 caliber bullet from an Automag III .30 Carbine certainly has less stopping power than a .30 caliber bullet from Remington 700 30-06.

The one, single thing that HAS been proven out to be vital in ANY ability to stop an attacker is penetration. Inadequate penetration means little, if any, blood loss or damage to vital organs. Assuming, of course, that one can hit one's target in the first place, all other factors are subservient to penetration.

After all, even nuclear weapons have to be delivered on target in order to be effective. Can't be a bunker-buster if you can't hit the bunker in the first place. ;)


So, while I certainly agree with your statement that statistics may (and do) favor one particular type of round over another under certain circumstances as a better "one shot stopper", the term as it is generally used is rarely anything more than a marketing tactic or something to quibble about between gun affectionados in endless debates over which is best.

:)

Direwolf131
August 3, 2013, 04:40 PM
Hello Everyone!

First off, let me thank everyone on this forum for many hours of reading pleasure. Although I don't post on here very often, many an hour of my time is spent perusing and enjoying the discussions here. I am currently hosting a new podcast called Handgun Radio on the Firearms Radio Network, and I have been doing a little potential brainstorming for future show topics. One topic I've been considering is going over some of the most prevalent/famous handgun myths, rumors or urban legends. I thought that I might query the members of this forum and ask: what is your favorite or most heard handgun myth, rumor, or urban legend?

Thank you!
Ryan
One of my favorites is how a .357 magnum is not suitable for defense from wild animals, namely bear, when in fact its the most perfectly suited to the task.

KenW.
August 3, 2013, 05:45 PM
Myth-Rumor:

High capacity magazines are those that are capable of holding more than seven rounds (ALA: NY)
Pistol grips are only used for "spray and pray" fire.
.223 is a high powered round.
This here is a .44 magnum and it'll take your head clean off.
The streets will be running red with the blood of our children.
Once a high capacity magazine has been used it is worthless.
Common sense gun safety laws won't affect law abiding gun owners.

Jim K
August 3, 2013, 09:30 PM
"One of my favorites is how a .357 magnum is not suitable for defense from wild animals, namely bear, when in fact its the most perfectly suited to the task."

Hmmm. Ever seen a big brownie?

Jim

rcmodel
August 3, 2013, 09:35 PM
I was gonna say!

There are bears, and then there are bears.

A 120 pound black bear raiding your S-Mores marshmallows you left outside your tent in Pennsylvania is a whole different bear then a 1,200 pound brown chewing your head off on Kodiak Island because you got between her and her cubs.

A .357 might be near ideal for the former, but you might as well use it to shoot yourself with your .357 and put you out of your pain with the latter.

rc

Jim Watson
August 4, 2013, 01:49 PM
As one pro said (in the pre-.44 Magnum days)
How come a 158 gr bullet at 1510 fps from a revolver (original .357 8 3/4" claims) is suitable for big game, while a 150 gr bullet at 1600 fps from my .30-06 is a small game load good only for rabbits and grouse?

TitaniumMan
August 4, 2013, 06:55 PM
DonnyBrook13: Patton did the same thing. I think it was indoors, some kind of grand dinner, and one of his pearl-handled revolvers went off somehow.

Patton: "They're ivory. Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol."

From the movie, of course.

VVelox
August 5, 2013, 07:53 AM
Myth-Rumor:

High capacity magazines are those that are capable of holding more than seven rounds (ALA: NY)
Pistol grips are only used for "spray and pray" fire.
.223 is a high powered round.
This here is a .44 magnum and it'll take your head clean off.
The streets will be running red with the blood of our children.
Once a high capacity magazine has been used it is worthless.
Common sense gun safety laws won't affect law abiding gun owners.
Actually .223 Win. is a high powered round. The confusion comes into play over what high powered means. The term came into being used to differentiate between black powered and at the time new smokeless powder cartridges. These days most cartridges meet the definition of it, making it fairly pointless.

KenW.
August 5, 2013, 02:58 PM
Actually .223 Win. is a high powered round.

That's not the consensus among my game-hunting friends. I know of no one who tries to take mule deer, elk, moose, with a .223. Where I am that's a coyote round.

If the powder makes the difference, would a .25 ACP be high powered?

YZ
August 5, 2013, 04:13 PM
I think "high powered" is not worth any argument. This idiom is only used by the press and TV to dramatize crime reports. Just like "assault rifle" it is never used by anyone proficient with the firearms.

rcmodel
August 5, 2013, 04:15 PM
It is used by the NRA and the military shooting teams.

As in High Power rifle matches.

http://competitions.nra.org/how-to-get-started/high-power-rifle-competition.aspx

http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

30-06, 7.62 NATO/.308, and 5.56 NATO/.223 are acceptable calibers according to the rules.

rc

YZ
August 5, 2013, 04:26 PM
It is not the same. The High Power idiom with the capital letters certainly exists today in professional terminology. "High powered" on the other hand casually and vaguely describes any centerfire rifle or caliber from 223 and up. That's why a fellow Member brought it up as a misconception.

45_auto
August 5, 2013, 05:53 PM
Actually .223 Win. is a high powered round.

Are you referring to the .223 WSSM (Winchester Short Magnum)?

I believe the other posters were referring to the .223 Remington, also known as 5.56 NATO (5.56 x 45).

KenW.
August 5, 2013, 10:07 PM
Folks, we've strayed from the OP's intent and it's partially my fault. this thread is about handguns.

Magnuumpwr
August 6, 2013, 10:19 PM
How about in movies, during fire fights, people hide behind trash cans, empty 55 gal drums, or car doors.

Comrade Mike
August 6, 2013, 10:37 PM
How about in movies, during fire fights, people hide behind trash cans, empty 55 gal drums, or car doors.

Or as in black hawk down, sheet metal.

stressed
August 6, 2013, 11:01 PM
That 12 ga shotgun will blow your head off. Sorry, not true.

YZ
August 7, 2013, 04:51 AM
Perhaps not entirely off literally, but in a matter of speaking, yes. I've seen horrid footage.

kBob
August 7, 2013, 09:28 AM
Just a few observations/ comments.

As shown in the ads posted KTW ammunition did use Teflon coated bullets. They were much earlier than Black Talons as were the Arcane rounds from France.

The only Arcane ammo I have seen was in Europe and neither the 9x19mm nor .44 magnum I saw seemed to have any coating. The .44 Arcane was involved in the failure of a then new Ruger Redhawk (old model) I personally witnessed. The shooter was an insane Army NCO that was an armor platoon sergeant then assigned as TC on an M-60A3 tank in 3AD. He wore his privately owned weapon in a shoulder holster and claimed to have visions of riding his steel steed among Soviet BMP armored fighting vehicles and shooting through their armor with his Arcane ammo fired from his RedHawk. The stuff was painfully loud as in teeth jarring. As he fired a round in NRA stance the barrel sheared off, went down range about six to ten feet while turning slowly. It was odd to say the least. As the round was supposed to be capable of penetrating 15mm of cold rolled homogeneous steel and the thickest/ strongest armor on a BMP was that....maybe he had something.

This experience caused me to not buy Arcane ammo for a .357 S&W 19 I had at the time.

I was out shooting that day to determine which of my privately owned 9x19mm pistols I would carry......in addition to my PoW .45ACP series 70 MkIV. I had a p-1 (p38), an HK P7 and A CZ75 to choose from and the answer was.....yes.

After General Ulmer left in 1982 we were strongly encouraged not to openly flaunt Privately Owned Weapons so such, and non issue ammo, became less common.

-kBob

Riomouse911
August 7, 2013, 01:27 PM
A quick clip of the Beretta trick; it does work. It can also work with Sig 226-style pistols if the one doing the disarming has practiced it. (Remember, there are a lot of crooks with a LOT of time on their hands in the pokey to learn tricks for disarming CCW civilians and law enforcement, and yes they practice it more than most LE or CCW do with their firearms)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7lOuzNr3Tw

Biden's own; "Take a double barrelled shotgun and shoot two shotgun blasts into the air to scare people off".

Another myth is people automatically run away or immediately comply if they are confronted by a gun wielding homeowner.

As for the "unloaded gun" comments I treat all my assembled and functional arms as if they are loaded for one simple reason; I have never seen nor heard of a completely disassembled firearm firing a bullet on it's own and hurting anyone, but I have heard and personally seen dozens of people hurt by someone being careless with an "unloaded" firearm. I don't care if I have personally inspected the arm and saw it was "unloaded", don't point the damn thing at me.

jad0110
August 7, 2013, 07:13 PM
a poster said a myth is " that glocks are reliable" does anyone else here believe glocks are unreliable?

Probably a better way to put it is the myth that Glocks are totally 100% reliable. That parrells the AKs never jam myth. Funny story about that, I was out shooting with family last year and within the timeframe of about 1 second, 2 AKs, an SKS and an AR all jammed, bringing an erie silence and confused glances.

How about in movies, during fire fights, people hide behind trash cans, empty 55 gal drums, or car doors.

Or how about this sequence in the film Grosse Point Blank with John Cusack's character using bags of potato chips as cover :D (about 3 seconds into the clip) :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZt0fAZ018E


I never knew potato chip bags were bullet proof! :neener:

YZ
August 7, 2013, 07:45 PM
Probably a better way to put it is the myth that Glocks are totally 100% reliable. That parrells the AKs never jam myth. Funny story about that, I was out shooting with family last year and within the timeframe of about 1 second, 2 AKs, an SKS and an AR all jammed, bringing an erie silence and confused glances.



Or how about this sequence in the film Grosse Point Blank with John Cusack's character using bags of potato chips as cover :D (about 3 seconds into the clip) :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZt0fAZ018E


I never knew potato chip bags were bullet proof! :neener:
Things are just bound to happen when someone's watching. Jad u remember which ammo it was? I wanna take note.

Rollis R. Karvellis
August 7, 2013, 08:18 PM
After watching the movie Harley Davidson, and The Marlboro Man, anything seen on the silver screen is believable.

jad0110
August 7, 2013, 08:26 PM
Things are just bound to happen when someone's watching. Jad u remember which ammo it was? I wanna take note.

Yeah, 4 guns going down at the same moment (including 2 AKs and an SKS) and we thought the universe was going to implode! :p

The SKS was firing Wolf 122 grain JHP. It didn't have a model #.

The AR failure actually wasn't ammo related; the BCG was an older Delton model that did not have any staking on the gas key and it came loose upon firing, jamming the action in the closed position. For the record though, I was using Wolf 55 grain FMJ.

Not sure what the AK-74s were shooting. It was the 1,050 round Romanian bulk pack, as I think it was called, sold by Aimsurplus a few years back for around $150 a tin.

YZ
August 8, 2013, 05:44 AM
Got it thanks

allin
August 8, 2013, 05:53 AM
If you are hit anywhere with a 45ACP you will go down!
If the caliber doesn't start with a 4 it isn't worth anything!
All guns made by (pick a manufacturer I don't own) are unreliable junk!
The more crap I can put on a rail on any gun makes me a better shot and I NEED it!
Buy the largest caliber available for defense!
I need a (whatever) because they use it in "the sand". Most of us will never face those conditions.
"A friend of a friend's uncles brothers son in law was in SEAL Team 6. He used it." there must have been 3 million guys in that team due to all of the crap like this I have heard!
For CCW the only way to go is with a primary 45ACP, a back 9mm, a 380 bug, and a j frame on the ankle. Maybe in Mogadishu or Detroit!
ADD any mall ninja stuff you can come up with.:barf:

Just my two cents. would like to read your bog.

stressed
August 8, 2013, 08:57 AM
That if you get shot with a 22lr it will "bounce around all over" inside you.

cauldron
August 8, 2013, 10:05 AM
That it's possible to change someone's opinion about guns on the internet.

"Don't need to clean it 'cause I never shot it." (pocket carry)

over penetration

energy dump

one shot stop statistics... (The only 100% stopper was a black powder .38; Based on one shot)

My kid can't find my handgun. It's hidden too well; if he found it he's never touch it; it's unloaded anyway, and he doesn't know how to load it.

Jeff Cooper didn't know what he was talking about; Yeager knows what he's talking about.

Only cops need handguns.

YZ
August 8, 2013, 11:20 AM
That it's possible to change someone's opinion about guns on the internet.

"Don't need to clean it 'cause I never shot it." (pocket carry)

over penetration

energy dump

one shot stop statistics... (The only 100% stopper was a black powder .38; Based on one shot)

My kid can't find my handgun. It's hidden too well; if he found it he's never touch it; it's unloaded anyway, and he doesn't know how to load it.

Jeff Cooper didn't know what he was talking about; Yeager knows what he's talking about.

Only cops need handguns.
Who's Yeager?

Jim K
August 8, 2013, 05:11 PM
How about this myth? The next time a police officer says citizens should not have guns, spring this on him:

"Police should be the first to be disarmed ... they are morally inferior to the rest of the community ... trigger happy ... queer for guns, [and] range from the mentally odd to the mentally unbalanced."

From "The Saturday Night Special", described as "the bible of the gun control movement" and widely accepted as gospel by the anti-gun gang.

Jim

RetiredUSNChief
August 8, 2013, 08:32 PM
Or how about this sequence in the film Grosse Point Blank with John Cusack's character using bags of potato chips as cover :D (about 3 seconds into the clip) :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZt0fAZ018E


I never knew potato chip bags were bullet proof! :neener:


Heh! Since we're on funny movie clips, I like the one in Deathwish where the guy thought he could hide behind his boombox! Bronson disabused him of that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDYcMogdJsA

jad0110
August 8, 2013, 09:46 PM
^^^

Ha, I remember that one now!

That if you get shot with a 22lr it will "bounce around all over" inside you.

From My Blue Heaven with Steve Martin as Vincent 'Vinnie' Antonelli:

"Richie loved to use 22s because the bullets are small and they don't come out the other end like a 45, see, a 45 will blow a barn door out the back of your head and there's a lot of dry cleaning involved, but a 22 will just rattle around like Pac-Man until you die."

:D

Here's the scene. Friggin' hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZQSo5VCJic



Two opposing myths that get me going:

You don't need more than 7 rounds. No one needs hi cap magzines.

And the opposite, just as annoying one:

If you have less than 15 rounds in the gun, you obviously don't care about your loved ones because you'll be dead before the fight even begins.

I actually saw a variation of that on a message board. Can't remember which though.

Direwolf131
August 8, 2013, 11:50 PM
"One of my favorites is how a .357 magnum is not suitable for defense from wild animals, namely bear, when in fact its the most perfectly suited to the task."

Hmmm. Ever seen a big brownie?

Jim
A great many, born & raised in Fairbanks AK.

mgmorden
August 9, 2013, 09:19 AM
a poster said a myth is " that glocks are reliable" does anyone else here believe glocks are unreliable?

I think its more of a myth that Glocks are reliable to a standard above other guns.

Glocks are plenty reliable, but so are a myriad of other modern pistols. There's nothing really special about them.

Deus Machina
August 10, 2013, 04:10 AM
I think the Glock thing is a holdover.
They were more reliable than a lot of the stuff of the day when they were becoming popular, and they are very reliable... but so are most of the big-brand pistols now.

Gaucho Gringo
August 11, 2013, 12:43 PM
Actually, on a properly fitted Colt SAA, the firing pin cannot reach the rear face of the cylinder even with the hammer down between chambers.

It's just a frog hair too short to reach anything except air with the hammer down between cartridge rims.

The real risk is the cylinder is not locked in place in that position.

So if an outside force turns the cylinder, the firing pin will drag across 1/2 a live primer before the cylinder is locked by the bolt.

rc
In the early days of cartridge conversions on percussion revolvers Colt made some of the new cylinders with 12 stop slots to prevent this. The problem was the slots were at the thinnest part of the cylinder(over the chamber)and with lots of use the slots eventually broke through.

YZ
August 11, 2013, 02:28 PM
Remington model 700 rifle is a flawed design that can go off on safe. How soon we forget.

lloveless
August 11, 2013, 05:35 PM
.22lr bullets don't always go in a straight line after entering the human body. Yes they do ricochet around in the body, and have been known to follow large vessels ending up quite away from the initial path.
ll

RetiredUSNChief
August 11, 2013, 05:44 PM
.22lr bullets don't always go in a straight line after entering the human body. Yes they do ricochet around in the body, and have been known to follow large vessels ending up quite away from the initial path.
ll

Very few bullets actually go in a straight line after entering the human body.

;)

Granted, a larger mass is inherently more difficult to deflect...but deflect they do.

golden
August 11, 2013, 07:54 PM
On that gun in the bikini?

One of my co-workers was called when a federal prisoner went through the x-ray and was found to have a gun '" inside of her body"!

Best part is that she had previously spent a month in a county jail before being taken into federal custody!

Jim

MrDig
August 11, 2013, 10:16 PM
I always ask people who say this if I can shoot them with one to prove their point.
their refusal to allow me to do so usually proves mine.
PS thanks for this thread I have enjoyed reading it thus far

TestPilot
August 12, 2013, 02:51 AM
380 ACP isn't a powerful enough round for defense
I always ask people who say this if I can shoot them with one to prove their point.
their refusal to allow me to do so usually proves mine.

No, it does not.

Do you think blanks are good defense rounds? If not, would you let me fire a blank round point blank in your face?

stressed
August 12, 2013, 11:22 AM
I always ask people who say this if I can shoot them with one to prove their point.
their refusal to allow me to do so usually proves mine.
PS thanks for this thread I have enjoyed reading it thus far
OK - if you had no choice, would you rather be shot through your thigh with a .380 FMJ round, or a hyper velocity .22lr HP?

MrDig
August 12, 2013, 12:39 PM
Test Pilot you again help me prove my point, no one wants to have a gun pointed at them period.
Any round is better than nothing with the possible exception of blanks. I would rather have a 380acp than an entrenching tool. If all I had was the e-tool I would use it as best I could.

mgmorden
August 12, 2013, 02:38 PM
Test Pilot you again help me prove my point, no one wants to have a gun pointed at them period.
Any round is better than nothing with the possible exception of blanks. I would rather have a 380acp than an entrenching tool. If all I had was the e-tool I would use it as best I could.

No, I don't think you're quite understanding it.

Your original premise was that

"A person isn't willing to be shot with round X, so therefore it is viable for self defense."

That position isn't logical. By that logic - would the average person let you punch them in the face? No? Well then you don't even need a gun at all. Fists work just as well according to your premise.

How about a pellet rifle? Bow and arrow? Heck I won't let someone throw a rock at me but I'm not about to go strolling around with a pocket full of pebbles.

Bottom line - that a person won't volunteer to take a shot in the chest from any given round in no way makes it suitable for self-defense.

MrDig
August 12, 2013, 04:29 PM
No I don't think you are understanding it. but that is ok I really do get it.
Caliber snobs will tell you they won't shoot anything under xx caliber. The reality is "Ya dance with the gal ya came with." If all you have is xx caliber learn to shoot it well.

Kuyong_Chuin
August 12, 2013, 06:48 PM
1. putting your finger in a barrel of a gun stop it from firing.
2. You can shoot 27 times out of a single action six shooter without reloading and only 3 bullets in the gun. (Watch the end of the John Wayne movie The Sons of Katie Elder)
3. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: are you nuts?
4. You can kill something without leaving a trace of the bullet behind by using an ice bullet.
5. You can shoot a hangman rope in two with one shot while the guy is in the middle of the drop.

TestPilot
August 12, 2013, 08:22 PM
Test Pilot you again help me prove my point, no one wants to have a gun pointed at them period.
Any round is better than nothing with the possible exception of blanks. I would rather have a 380acp than an entrenching tool. If all I had was the e-tool I would use it as best I could.

First you say 380ACP is powerful enough for defense.

Now you say you are arguing on the basis of "better than nothing."

No. I did not help you prove your point. Unless your point is "I am the kind of person who changes the game rules when I lose at my own game then pretend like that was the original game."

MrDig
August 12, 2013, 10:02 PM
I never changed the rules, I'm not a caliber snob. Dance with the gal you brought. If you think .380acp is an ineffective round let someone shoot you with one. If you wouldn't let someone do that, don't tell me my point is invalid.
I wouldn't let anyone point a gun at me and get away with it. I don't care how big or small the caliber.
My point being, if you think like I do about a firearm being pointed at you a .380 acp is in fact an effective SD/HD round.
This is way off the original topic so lets agree to disagree and let the thread get back on point

barnbwt
August 12, 2013, 10:17 PM
Myth: "They" banned SS190 5.7x28 for being armor piercing, and Black Talon for being too effective

" If you think .380acp is an ineffective round let someone shoot you with one."

:scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny:
Really?

"Well apparently the .380 won't do any damage whatsoever"
Seriously? Hyperbole much? Tell you what; I'll go out tomorrow and buy a 380 and... you see how stupid this is? :rolleyes:
Of course 380 is sufficient for self defense, and even offense. A great many WWI and II era guns were chambered in similar power level cartridges. That's not to say that much better alternatives haven't been developed. No need to be so defensive

TCB

MrDig
August 12, 2013, 11:11 PM
Well apparently the .380 won't do any damage whatsoever, therefore it safe as hell to allow some to shoot you with it right? after all they are so ineffective as to be a non issue.

TestPilot
August 13, 2013, 12:15 AM
Deleted.

I see no point in debating with this person.

YZ
August 13, 2013, 09:02 AM
This thread went up like a supernova, and fizzled down to a red dwarf. Everything is urban myth except my opinion.
Oh but here is another. The M91/30 is a crude weapon built for peasant soldiers.

Carl N. Brown
August 13, 2013, 11:59 AM
.22lr bullets don't always go in a straight line after entering the human body. Yes they do ricochet around in the body, and have been known to follow large vessels ending up quite away from the initial path.

Atlas of Forensic Pathology "Small caliber bullets and lead shot may enter blood vessels or the heart and be embolized to distant parts of the body far removed from the point of entrance."-page 63.

"embolized" means an object (.22 bullet, bird shot, blood clot, air bubble or other matter) gets passively transported by the blood stream until it can go no further and blocks an artery.

The most common story from the 1970s was that a man was shot in the chest with a .22 Short RG10 and the bullet was found in the femoral artery of his leg.*

When Dick Cheney shot his hunting companion, the medics watched him closely out of fear the bird shot would enter the blood stream and block an artery in the heart or brain. l



*("Killer demon Saturday Night Special .22 Short Rhoem Gun RG Model 10, shoot someone in the toe and the bullet ricochets about the body ending up anywhere." Even Robert Sherrill author of an anti-gun book entitled "Saturday Night Special" admitted that if the SNS was that deadly, why isn't the Army using it?)

stressed
August 13, 2013, 12:05 PM
.22lr bullets don't always go in a straight line after entering the human body. Yes they do ricochet around in the body, and have been known to follow large vessels ending up quite away from the initial path.
ll
Funny. I have taken hundreds of game with the .22lr. Why didn't any of them have and exit wound nowhere in relation to their entrance wound? Or when field dressed, why wasn't the bullet in an entirely different area of the body then the entrance?

Went in and out or stoped liked most any other round.

ExTank
August 13, 2013, 12:59 PM
Can we agree that there is such a thing as "one shot stop" stopping power?



http://www.fas.org/man//dod-101/sys/land/m1a1-tankinmo.jpg


A little unwieldy, I agree; it definitely won't fit "Inside the Waistband." :neener:

RetiredUSNChief
August 13, 2013, 04:39 PM
Can we agree that there is such a thing as "one shot stop" stopping power?



http://www.fas.org/man//dod-101/sys/land/m1a1-tankinmo.jpg


A little unwieldy, I agree; it definitely won't fit "Inside the Waistband." :neener:

Yes.

Wanna trade shots?

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1009/peace-peace-war-battleship-demotivational-poster-1285079115.jpg (http://www.motifake.com/peace-peace-war-battleship-demotivational-posters-117055.html)

:neener:

ExTank
August 13, 2013, 04:58 PM
No fair, Chief. That's a full broadsied of nine shots.

Back OT, I think the biggest myth about any firearms is the "they just went off" myth.

Does anyone seriously know of any firearms that "just go off" when casually handled?

I personally think some of those "accidental deaths" where "the gun just went off" were actually premeditated murders disguised to look like accidents, and with some good acting and plenty of alligator tears, the cops buy it.

ryan3465
August 13, 2013, 08:31 PM
Thank you EVERYONE for your valuable posts and discussions in this thread. I got so many suggestions that I had to pick just a few for the show, but I have written down most all of them and will probably do a "Firearms Fallacies" Part II sometime in the future.

Thank you all so much for the time taken responding & education!!

The show can be listened to at www.handgunradio.com/005

Ryan

AKElroy
August 13, 2013, 09:24 PM
That Glocks repeatedly go "click" when the surprised villain realizes he's empty and keeps yanking that trigger.

Carl N. Brown
August 13, 2013, 09:48 PM
I like the hammer cocking sound when a character aims a Glock. (It's a wonder they don't use the the cha-chunk pump shot gun action sound effect when someone draws a revolver.)

Deus Machina
August 13, 2013, 11:40 PM
That Glocks repeatedly go "click" when the surprised villain realizes he's empty and keeps yanking that trigger.

Which stems from the myth that Glocks are actual double-action. :D

hariph creek
August 14, 2013, 12:01 AM
"MIM is crap! No MIM in my gun! MIM will fail! I know firsthand, 326,654,954,001 people that had MIM fail! etc, etc, etc..."

Yes some of the early MIM forays had issues. That is not the case any more. If a person wants all Elvin forged parts? Fine, it's personal choice.
That doesn't mean a MIM part (when properly manufactured and appropriate to its particular application) is predisposed to failure. We live in an age of reasonably consistent, reliable and accurate firearms. This is due to in large part to modern manufacturing processes, including MIM.

Some things were better before. Some are better now. Some people confuse snobbery with wisdom.

hariph creek
August 14, 2013, 12:05 AM
I suspect the movie/TV people that decide Glocks make clicky noises. Have no idea what double action is.
They just think guns "make clicky noises."

CapnMac
August 14, 2013, 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
Can we agree that there is such a thing as "one shot stop" stopping power?

A little unwieldy, I agree; it definitely won't fit "Inside the Waistband."
Yes.

Wanna trade shots?


The 120mm APFSDS (Armor-Piercing, Fin-stabilized, Discarding-Sabot) penetrator round is only (only) 77mm diameter, and uses the physics of 11:1 rod ratios to burn a hole through a target tank. The physics of the impact create a plasma at the impact. The struck metal flexes in until the rod penetrates fully through. Whereupon it often carries on through the other side. But, if the round does not hit something critical, there may not be any sign visible from 3-4000m away that the round scored a "kill." So, tankers usually "double-tap" a target to get some sort of visible "secondary" result.

The 16" 50 caliber (barrel length = 50 bores/ calibers) naval rifle is an awesome thing. You put 600# (4.2million grains) behind a one ton projectile, and you get some results.

The tricky part, though, is that they were designed to be accurate of "minute of battleship." Which is to say 50% of the rounds will hit an ellipse 400' x 100' at a distance of 16-18 miles (a scant 33,000 yards). Which means if you are a 300'x65' destroyer, you have middling good odds for dodging "between the raindrops" as it were.

Mind you, those APC rounds are designed to cut through 16-18" of armor before the fuze detonates the bare 200# of explosive in the base of the round--so, your 1/2" - 1" plated Destroyer might not even set one off--which is not much consolation if the round trundles through the 1/3 of a destroyer that is the powerplant spaces. Or, if you've made the BB people real mad, and they demonstrate the recursive probability that occurs by adding additional rifles to the mix. (For you curious types, it's factorial of the number of barrels fired multiplied by the accuracy of the firing solution--four barrels fired on an 80% accurate solution gives you a 4! * 0.8 better CEP.)

460Kodiak
August 14, 2013, 08:59 AM
I have a friend who is 63 years old, and ex-military.

He insists that he saw a fellow soldier in Desert Storm get shot in his hand with a .45acp, and that it took that soldier off his feet. Disappointing to hear that horse hockey from a military guy. Of course he also told me his 1911 will go full auto....... I've shot it. It doesn't.

Oh yeah, "The sound of a racking shotgun will send anyone running."

"460 and 500 magnum produce too much recoil to allow quick follow up shots, and are thus not practical for dangerous animal defense." Umm.... it's called practice.

"It's stupid to shoot 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of a 460 magnum because if that's what you want to do you should have bought a different gun, because doing it in an X-Frame is just using a platform that is unnecessarily heavy and bulky." Shooting either scaled down cartridges in a 460 is practical and a real joy. The extra weight makes follow up shots extremely fast even with 45 Colt +P. When you realize you are slinging 200+ gr weight bullets fast, and it feels like shooting a .22, I get a big smile on my face.

"All guns should be like GLOCKS." BS!!!!!!

RetiredUSNChief
August 14, 2013, 09:51 AM
The tricky part, though, is that they were designed to be accurate of "minute of battleship." Which is to say 50% of the rounds will hit an ellipse 400' x 100' at a distance of 16-18 miles (a scant 33,000 yards). Which means if you are a 300'x65' destroyer, you have middling good odds for dodging "between the raindrops" as it were.

Mind you, those APC rounds are designed to cut through 16-18" of armor before the fuze detonates the bare 200# of explosive in the base of the round--so, your 1/2" - 1" plated Destroyer might not even set one off--which is not much consolation if the round trundles through the 1/3 of a destroyer that is the powerplant spaces. Or, if you've made the BB people real mad, and they demonstrate the recursive probability that occurs by adding additional rifles to the mix. (For you curious types, it's factorial of the number of barrels fired multiplied by the accuracy of the firing solution--four barrels fired on an 80% accurate solution gives you a 4! * 0.8 better CEP.)

Good stats.

As a sailor (albeit a retired submariner), the problem with "dodging" anything being delivered as a bombardment is not knowing exactly where the next shell, out of a great many, is going to land. Nine turrents of three barrels, each with the capability of firing two rounds a minute for days on end, is a truely awesome amount of firepower to levy against any target, moving or not. (Your "additional rifles".) Especially when you consider the modern upgrades that were introduced in the 1980s, which tracked muzzel velocities of each round and tracked and targeted with modern radar and computers of the time. As the guns sequenced their shots, you'd be talking about one shell every 3 seconds...hour after hour, day after day.

The fuzing of the rounds with respect to thinner hulled ships is an interesting point. It might be interesting, however, for people who've never given thought to the destructive capabilities of even a non-explosive high velocity round to look up the old naval term "shiver"...as in "shiver me timbers".

Back before the days of explosive projectiles in naval guns, the majority of ship damage was caused literally by a massive cannonball smashing it's way through whatever it hit. And when it hit something like a ship's mast, or penetrated the hull or bulkheads, the wood would "shiver"...meaning it would explode into wooden shrapnel. An entire compartment of men could be shreded this way by a cannonball blowing through a bulkhead...or successive bulkheads. This in addition to whatever direct damage the cannonball did by impact.

Much the same would happen on modern naval vessels when you would blow a one ton hunk of metal through a ship at velocities in the neighborhood of 2,500 fps. Every space not directly impacted by the round as it passed through would be utterly devoid of human life anyway due to secondary effects similar to "shivering" on the old wooden ships.


And, as a side note for the interested, keep in mind what the original design concept of the battleship was: to be able to duke it out against other battleships, as in broadside combat. These ships were massively armored to be able to go toe-to-toe with other battleships...and survive.

This capability was somewhat muted with the advent of submarine and air warfare, and the role of the battleship changed accordingly. As a naval shore bombardment platform, it's one of the most scary things an enemy can see parked off its shores.

Carl N. Brown
August 14, 2013, 09:59 AM
"The sound of a wracking shotgun will send anyone running."

CBS Minnesota, "Pregnant Woman With Shotgun Thwarts Burglars", COON RAPIDS, Minn. (WCCO) Channel 4. 6 Dec 2011

With a single pump of her 12-gauge shotgun, the would-be burglars bolted out the door and through the backyard.

“Yes, a shotgun racking is something you don’t forget if you’ve ever heard one. So, it frightened these two suspects off right away, they took off running,” said Coon Rapids Police Captain John Hattstrom.

It's an old self-defense cliche: "..."racking" of a pump gun is the nonverbal equivalent of saying, "you have been warned."" (quoted from trial consultant Wendy Saxon in The Jury Expert, American Society of Trial Consultants, vol 21 no 5, Sept 2009).

It has become a cliche because it happens. However, you should not count on it and you should be mentally prepared to follow through if necessary. Many times "I am armed ... you have been warned" (cha-chunk) is sufficient but you must be prepared for the times when it is not. It won't work on every attacker in every situation.

460Kodiak
August 14, 2013, 10:07 AM
It has become a cliche because it happens. However, you should not count on it and you should be mentally prepared to follow through if necessary. Many times "I am armed ... you have been warned" (cha-chunk) is sufficient but you must be prepared for the times when it is not. It won't work on every attacker in every situation.


I agree. I should have said "Will always send anyone running." It isn't 100% and if you are in a situation where you have armed yourself, then you NEED to be prepared to shoot. If you want a sound to scare intuders out of your home, get a rotwieler, and train it to bark loudly at attackers before trying to tear their arm off.

Jim K
August 14, 2013, 12:09 PM
That x will "send the bad guy running" or that y will "scare him off" are good examples of myths that might be true - sometimes. If they are not, and the good guy does not have something that will do more than "scare", he is in trouble.

Another myth, heavily promoted by the anti-gun gang, is that this or that kind of unarmed combat is better than a gun. "I am trained in Bing Bong Dong, and I can handle anyone even if he has a gun" is nonsense, and real unarmed combat experts know it and would never go up against a gun except as a last resort. I once watched a man on TV say that he could easily deal with a knife wielder, but not with a gun user, which is why "we have to ban guns." That man was about 99 years old and couldn't have "dealt with" a kitten, let alone a punk knife artist; he was, simply put, a liar, like most of the anti-gun types.

Jim

Kabal
August 14, 2013, 01:54 PM
When I was a recruit in the (German) military, a Lieutenant told us about special high velocity bullets that are banned according to the Geneva convention. Anyone grazed by such a bullet would supposedly die from hydrostatic shock. According to this Lieutenant, these bullets/rounds were used by the Vietcong. When another recruit asked for the name of the gun that fired them, the Lieutenant made up a name on the spot.

The myth of the high velocity bullet or variations thereof is (or was?) an extremely common urban legend in the German military. It was just one of many BS stories that particular officer told us.

Are US soldiers fed similar fairy tales in basic training?


Edit: Just noticed that I posted a "rifle round myth" in a "handgun myth" thread - sorry for that ;)

RetiredUSNChief
August 14, 2013, 05:51 PM
When I was a recruit in the (German) military, a Lieutenant told us about special high velocity bullets that are banned according to the Geneva convention. Anyone grazed by such a bullet would supposedly die from hydrostatic shock. According to this Lieutenant, these bullets/rounds were used by the Vietcong. When another recruit asked for the name of the gun that fired them, the Lieutenant made up a name on the spot.

The myth of the high velocity bullet or variations thereof is (or was?) an extremely common urban legend in the German military. It was just one of many BS stories that particular officer told us.

Are US soldiers fed similar fairy tales in basic training?


Edit: Just noticed that I posted a "rifle round myth" in a "handgun myth" thread - sorry for that ;)

Outside of commonly recognized BS banter?

Not really. And anybody who really spouts such as if they really believe it tends to get shut down by the ridicule of others.

People trained for combat, such as Marines and Army infantry, for example, don't have much care for BS when it comes to training for the reality of such combat. My Marine Corps brother would tell you that.

Where this type of mythology may come from doesn't have anything to do with small arms fire. There is a world of difference between getting shot by, say, a combat rifle carried by infantry and getting shot by a 20mm round from a Vulcan cannon which is mowing down the forest from a circling C-130.

A shot in the shoulder by an M-16 cannot compare to a shot in the shoulder by a 20mm. The effects are too radically different.

But the extreme examples commonly given by most people (such as the pinky finger shot that kills) is pure BS.

barnbwt
August 14, 2013, 07:09 PM
""It's stupid to shoot 45 Colt or 454 Casull out of a 460 magnum because if that's what you want to do you should have bought a different gun, because doing it in an X-Frame is just using a platform that is unnecessarily heavy and bulky." Shooting either scaled down cartridges in a 460 is practical and a real joy. The extra weight makes follow up shots extremely fast even with 45 Colt +P. When you realize you are slinging 200+ gr weight bullets fast, and it feels like shooting a .22, I get a big smile on my face."

You forgot to comment on the guys who insist on trying for 454/460 loads out of Ruger 45LC's :neener: (sorry, had to go there :D :D :D). I normally reserve the "because if that's what you want to do you should have bought a different gun" line for those individuals, rather than the other way around :D

TCB

460Kodiak
August 14, 2013, 07:17 PM
You forgot to comment on the guys who insist on trying for 454/460 loads out of Ruger 45LC's (sorry, had to go there ). I normally reserve the "because if that's what you want to do you should have bought a different gun" line for those individuals, rather than the other way around


Here here!!!

rcmodel
August 14, 2013, 07:47 PM
Are US soldiers fed similar fairy tales in basic training?I was.

Not in basic, but as an E6 Staff Sargent in 1969 when a large mechanized unit was shipping out to Vietnam.

We ran the familiarization & qualification ranges for all small arms before they left.

And many of the troops ask me if it was true what that had been told by their officers that the 5.56 round was especially deadly, and would tear you in half.

BECAUSE THE BULLETS TUMBLED ALL THE WAY DOWN RANGE.
And hit like tiny buss-saws!!

I chalked it up to brass hat 'experts' spouting off about ballistics & rifle bullet accuracy they knew less then nothing about.

rc

CountGlockulla
August 14, 2013, 07:51 PM
.45 is better than 9mm is the biggest one I can think of.

justice06rr
August 14, 2013, 08:05 PM
Not sure if this has been said yet, but the Glock Perfection is a Myth.

I've owned and shot Glocks that had issues in the past....

The brass-to-face is not cool either.

jad0110
August 14, 2013, 09:31 PM
The 16" 50 caliber (barrel length = 50 bores/ calibers) naval rifle is an awesome thing. You put 600# (4.2million grains) behind a one ton projectile, and you get some results.

How many ft-lbs of energy is that, for the kinetic energy obsessed among us? Ft-tons may not need as many digits. :D

I know the old battle wagons don't fit modern naval tactics, but they sure were menacing and beautiful ships. So much more impressive looking than any other ship.

I love the photo of the broadside on the prior page. Note the wake running perpendicular to the bow and the rest of the hull. I always heard the recoil of a full broadside would push the entire ship in the opposite direction. You can see it right there in the photo.

RetiredUSNChief
August 15, 2013, 05:59 AM
How many ft-lbs of energy is that, for the kinetic energy obsessed among us? Ft-tons may not need as many digits. :D

I know the old battle wagons don't fit modern naval tactics, but they sure were menacing and beautiful ships. So much more impressive looking than any other ship.

I love the photo of the broadside on the prior page. Note the wake running perpendicular to the bow and the rest of the hull. I always heard the recoil of a full broadside would push the entire ship in the opposite direction. You can see it right there in the photo.

Ooooookay, you asked for it!

Let's assume a 2,700 pound projectile at 2,500 fps:

2,700 lbs is 18,900,000 grains.

Times velocity squared would be:

262,278,520 ft-lbs


How do you like THEM apples?

:evil:


Oh, by the way...about that "wake":

I once used to believe that these images "proved" that such broadside actually shoved the battleships sideways like you're saying. But actually those battleships are so massive that this isn't what happens at all. Lateral movement in the water is very, VERY little and it shown mathematically if you care to google it. Essentially, the ship isn't moving sideways at all.

What you're seeing is the shockwave from the muzzle blasts as it ripples across the water and along the hull.

Sergei Mosin
August 15, 2013, 06:09 AM
It's not just the 16-inch guns - the 5-inch guns are firing too. See the smoke and little rings of fire in the center of the photo?

Trunk Monkey
August 15, 2013, 10:26 AM
Are US soldiers fed similar fairy tales in basic training?

Well there was the one about "Do 20 years and you'll get medical benefits for life...." :rolleyes:

Seriously, the biggest myth I run into is the idea that just pointing agun at someone will make them back down.

Speedo66
August 15, 2013, 06:37 PM
I always get a laugh in the movies when a group of cops, soldiers, whatever stumble upon a bad guy and they all, simultaneously, cock their weapons with much noise, and much "badness".

Really, not one of them already had a round in the chamber? Who chases people like that? More importantly, who writes this drivel? :barf:

DanTheFarmer
August 15, 2013, 11:16 PM
Re: 120mm APFSDS rounds, the US uses a depleted uranium (DU) alloy for the penetrator. It is pyrophoric, meaning any shards or fragments that occur as a result of impact ignite. The results are a spectacular shower of sparks when the round hits the front of the enemy tank, horrific things happen inside the tank, and a spectacular shower of sparks when the round exits the far side.
My knowledge comes from training films viewed as an Army Ammunition Ordnance Officer in the mid-80's. We were training to pass out these goodies to the tankers. I'll defer to any actual users of these things but if they behave on real targets like they do in demonstrations there is no need to double up. You'll know when the bad guy has taken a hit.

US Navy 16" armor piercing rounds only had about 40 pounds of high explosive out of a 2700 pound as fired weight. The high explosive version for shore bombardment had 153 out of 1900 pounds as fired weight. Check out www.navweaps.com for oodles of details. These amounts of explosive seem low but in reality the US Navy put more explosives into their shells than did competing navies. Google pictures of the damage the USS Massachusetts caused to the Jean Bart, a modern, well armored battleship, with those AP shells with "only" 40 pounds of explosive each.
Hitting a destroyer with an AP shell wouldn't likely set it off. AP shells are base fuzed and the shell might not encounter enough resistance to set it off. If an HC shell hit a destroyer again it was an iffy thing. The shell might go off, the nose fuse might be destroyed on impact before it could activate, or the time delay may be set such that it detonates after passing through the "tin can".

Dan

Yes, if you look at the literature from the "big gun" era they typically quoted energy in foot-tons!

Jim K
August 16, 2013, 12:47 PM
In the myth department, how about the story that a battleship fired "bullets as big as a Vollkswagen", a staple of "big gun" stories.

The original story probably said shells almost as heavy as a Volkswagen, but our ever-accurate "journalists" changed it to be more dramatic.

Jim

Dain Bramage
August 16, 2013, 01:18 PM
DanTheFarmer: I can't open the website linked, but if the pictures are the oft-repeated post-battle shots of Jean Bart, then that is a myth all in itself. The heavy shell-plating damage fore and aft was caused by a U.S. Navy Dauntless strike prior to the battleship bombardment. The aerial bombs used had a much higher component of high explosive than the 16" shells.

U.S.S. Massachussetts 16" hits did manage to jam the Jean Bart's only operational main turret, and one shell penetrated to the secondary turret magazine, which would have been catastrophic if the ship was fully operational and had secondary ammunition on board. 16" shells also managed to sink a large passenger/cargo ship on the opposite side of the quay from Jean Bart.

Bare-bones details are provided on the Jean Bart Wikipedia entry, and a complete blow-by-blow description in Garzke and Dulin's Aliied Battleships in WWII.

DanTheFarmer
August 16, 2013, 02:50 PM
Bramage,

Thanks for the double check. The site is www.navweaps.com. I edited my original post as well.

Thanks for the reminder about the air strikes on the Jean Bart. The pictures I've seen were indeed taken after Allied forces had taken the harbor. Thus the damage shown would have been all damage suffered, including the air strikes. I visited the USS Massachusetts in Fall River, Mass, a few years ago and they had a mangled 16" shell that had been fished out of the harbor after hitting the Jean Bart. It is impressive to think of being 20 or so miles away and accurately shooting this big hunk 'o metal. My guess is that the mangled shell is the one that jammed the Jean Bart's turret.

Interesting stuff!

Dan

jimbo555
August 16, 2013, 09:32 PM
Everybody knows it was the Fletcher class destroyers that won ww2.:D

Trunk Monkey
August 17, 2013, 09:53 AM
In the myth department, how about the story that a battleship fired "bullets as big as a Vollkswagen", a staple of "big gun" stories.

I thought it was "Guns as big as Steers and shells as big as trees" :D

javjacob
August 17, 2013, 11:42 AM
the one that drives me nuts is the morons who think bigger caliber = better. had a guy tell me he has a 45 because he has to have the biggest and baddest. guys with 45s who laugh at 357mag and say its small. a guy who has a 45 was talking about recoil and the 357mag came up and he said he could handle one easily because he has a 45 and can handle it so a 357mag would be easy to shoot.

also when people say 45 long colt... its 45 colt. also drives me nuts when people call revolvers pistols

Liberty1776
August 17, 2013, 12:57 PM
that the .45 ACP bullet moves so slow, that you can knock it out of the air by swatting it with a phone book...

Carl N. Brown
August 17, 2013, 02:32 PM
....that the .45 ACP bullet moves so slow, that you can knock it out of the air by swatting it with a phone book...
Someone alert Mythbusters! Phonebook swinging robot build project!

RetiredUSNChief
August 17, 2013, 09:27 PM
the one that drives me nuts is the morons who think bigger caliber = better. had a guy tell me he has a 45 because he has to have the biggest and baddest. guys with 45s who laugh at 357mag and say its small. a guy who has a 45 was talking about recoil and the 357mag came up and he said he could handle one easily because he has a 45 and can handle it so a 357mag would be easy to shoot.

also when people say 45 long colt... its 45 colt. also drives me nuts when people call revolvers pistols

Heh! You did, of course, point out to him that there are handguns out there with even bigger calibers? :D

rcmodel
August 17, 2013, 09:30 PM
What if he was right?? :what:

rc

Mainsail
August 18, 2013, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
My favorite is the one where your home defense shotgun needs a nine shot tube and a side-saddle with six more shells. As though the bad guy is going to keep advancing on you after you touch off the first shot.

My favorite is when people are willing to bet their lives that they'll only need one shot to scare off an attacker.

This is a myth you've heard? I'm pushing 50 years old and I've never heard anyone make that claim, much less heard it enough to call it an urban legend or myth.

GoWolfpack
August 19, 2013, 08:31 AM
Heh! You did, of course, point out to him that there are handguns out there with even bigger calibers? :D
Chief, I've been thinking about CCing my 500 magnum. It'll be much better than a 45, 'cause it's bigger.

RetiredUSNChief
August 19, 2013, 11:52 AM
Chief, I've been thinking about CCing my 500 magnum. It'll be much better than a 45, 'cause it's bigger.

Oh, please do!

And don't forget to show off the IWB holster for it, as well...

:D

GoWolfpack
August 19, 2013, 12:43 PM
Oh, please do!

And don't forget to show off the IWB holster for it, as well...

:D
I was thinking mexican carry in my cod piece.

DanTheFarmer
August 19, 2013, 05:49 PM
GoWolfpack,

Great idea! You'll have protection and probably get a few dates as well!

Dan

GoWolfpack
August 19, 2013, 07:49 PM
I already have to fight the ladies away. You'd be surprised how many females are attracted to a man in a codpiece and tights.

SimplyChad
August 19, 2013, 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredUSNChief View Post
Heh! You did, of course, point out to him that there are handguns out there with even bigger calibers?

Chief, I've been thinking about CCing my 500 magnum. It'll be much better than a 45, 'cause it's bigger.


I CC my 454 in a 5 in barrel SRH. :)

Jim K
August 25, 2013, 07:48 PM
Mainsail, you haven't been paying attention to the real experts. Our beloved Vice President and expert in all things, said that all you have to do is point a shotgun out the window and fire and the burglars will run away.

Of course, he didn't say what to do if the burglar was inside the house, but then he has a few thousand Secret Service agents protecting him, so he might not have a lot of experience in home defense.

Jim

medalguy
August 25, 2013, 10:59 PM
One more handgun myth: The 1911 pistol is out dated and has run its course. Blasphemy, I tell you!

rcmodel
August 25, 2013, 11:07 PM
Our beloved Vice President and expert in all things, saidHere is what happens if you follow the VP's most excellent advice!!

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/aug/22/lawrence-man-arrested-connection-sunday-morning-sh/

rc

rgwalt
August 25, 2013, 11:48 PM
Someone alert Mythbusters! Phonebook swinging robot build project!
I would love to see a phone book swinging robot build... I really like the myth busters work on gun myths

zeke4351
September 6, 2013, 05:40 AM
One of the biggest tales told to all the new shooters is that caliber makes no difference because the modern ammo has made them all equal.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/06/pa5ubemu.jpg

kerreckt
September 6, 2013, 08:55 AM
"Don't use Titegroup powder to reload .40S&W because it will blow up your gun" I have read that on this website.

DrDeFab
September 7, 2013, 02:19 AM
Does anyone seriously know of any firearms that "just go off" when casually handled?

Sort of: a 90+ year-old Crescent SXS. (not my pic, but the same model)
http://cdn.firearmstalk.com/forums/attachments/f33/39881d1329957226-crescent-sxs-shotgun-restoration-100_1864.jpg

On the particular one I'm familiar with, if it were loaded, cocked, and dropped on hard ground from waist height, there's a good chance one or both barrels would fire. Hanging it over the fireplace and slamming a nearby door might do it too.

You are mostly right - any reasonably modern firearm, from any decent manufacturer, that is in working order (or even most states of disrepair) won't be an issue.

Which points out an interesting thing about some of these myths: when great-granddad told it to granddad, it may have been true, it just needs to be updated for today. Corollary: if you're handling granddad's gun, it might pay to listen to granddad. ;)

Dframe
September 7, 2013, 01:46 PM
I've heard the one about Titegroup and 40 calibre. I've heard the same thing about Clays and 40 calibre.

KenW.
September 8, 2013, 08:45 PM
Wow. I posted beck when this thread started and had to remind myself this is supposed to be about HANDGUN myths. Now people are discussing the finer points of naval bombardment guns.

RetiredUSNChief
September 8, 2013, 09:04 PM
Wow. I posted beck when this thread started and had to remind myself this is supposed to be about HANDGUN myths. Now people are discussing the finer points of naval bombardment guns.

You gotta admit it was entertaining, though! I think it got started as a one-upmanship thing when someone posted a pic of an M1 Abrams tank for a "one shot stop" thing.

:):)


Still, it didn't seem to distract us too much from the main theme.

If you enjoyed reading about "Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!