Anybody here powder coating their cast bullets?


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Tommy Van Alen
August 4, 2013, 01:19 AM
Yeah, just like your oven or refrigerator are painted at the factory.

You have an electrostatic gun and then there is a ground wire attached to a tray your cast bullets are sitting on. Then you bake the powder coat.

And there is another method too. Dissolving the powder coat in lacquer thinner or acetone. Then you tumble the bullets in it. Let the solvent evaporate off. Then you bake it.

Just go do a google image search for "powder coated bullets".

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ColtPythonElite
August 4, 2013, 01:33 AM
Why? Sounds like a good way to uber foul up a barrel to me.

ArchAngelCD
August 4, 2013, 01:39 AM
Why? Sounds like a good way to uber foul up a barrel to me.
And, you will probably increase the bullet diameter which might raise pressures, possibly to dangerous levels.

Tommy Van Alen
August 4, 2013, 01:59 AM
It's only 68 pages long:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171403-Powder-Coating-Boolits

Some guys are sizing their bullets first, then powder coating, and some are sizing again.

rcmodel
August 4, 2013, 02:08 AM
Well, if you read it on the internet??

It has to be true!

Right??

Bonjour Me'same!

rc

Tommy Van Alen
August 4, 2013, 02:29 AM
Jeesh... You guys are a lot of fun. It must be my low post count, eh?

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://s14.postimg.org/5wg05qpoh/Fired_Group.jpg

rcmodel
August 4, 2013, 03:10 AM
O.K.
I'll play.

What exactly is powder coat paint pigment??

What is the coefficient of friction compared to bullet lube grease like Alox?

And how abrasive is it compared to plain old time proven bullet lube grease formulas like bees wax, or graphite in oil base grease that will not wear a barrel out in a lifetime of shooting?

So many questions.
So few answers so far.

Blue, gold, and pink bullets are nice.

But not as nice as a bullet lube that provides low friction, a retained film in the bore, and near zero bore wear.


I'm thinking if powder coat paint was a real good cheap way to lube bullets??
We would be buying Hot Pink and Day-Glow Green .22 LR & .38 Spl. ammo by now.

But we are not.

rc

PO2Hammer
August 4, 2013, 04:08 AM
Sure seems to stick well.
I'm interested in anything that prevents leading, but I too am concerned about barrel wear. If it's less abrasive than copper or brass they might be good alternative to plated or jacketed bullets for those who don't like exposed lead.
I'll wager it reduces smoke considerably.

Tommy Van Alen
August 4, 2013, 04:13 AM
I guess you haven't heard of the HI-TEK bullet coating, either, huh?


http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/NU7PbbtbAtE/maxresdefault.jpg



It is being imported by Donnie Miculek of Bayou Bullets. It is originally from Australia. You might have heard of Donnie's brother, Jerry.

It has been all the rage in Australia for at least 5 years.

And colored bullets are in Europe:

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/colorbullets04.jpg

jmorris
August 4, 2013, 05:10 AM
Yep, powder coat.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=707641&highlight=Bullet+coating

Then the easy way.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=713642&highlight=Bullet+coating

Thompsoncustom
August 4, 2013, 07:56 AM
There seems to be two main coated bullet camps right now, Hi Tek and Powder coating. I've only tired the Hi Tek but so far so good. Here's a pic of some 124gr's I've coated and shot by now.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o77/danielthompson8588/Goldbullets_zps96713826.jpg


Now what's the upside to coating bullets? Velocity limits is the big one, you can push a softer bullet much faster than you can with a lubed bullet. I personally like them because it's cleaner then your transitional bullet when cleaning up.

As far as sizing goes, you size the bullets after you coat them it's some pretty strong stuff. One of the test is to smash the bullet with a hammer to make sure the coating doesn't chip off.

flashhole
August 4, 2013, 10:13 AM
I have nothing to add, just want to follow the thread.

floydster
August 4, 2013, 11:30 AM
Am very interested in this coating, it looks like the coming thing.

edfardos
August 4, 2013, 11:39 AM
same as moly coat? I'm sold on moly coat (bear creek supply uses it). High pressure/temperature lube, stays on the bullet, no lead, higher velocities for same charge.

in 45acp anyhow.

edfardos

USSR
August 4, 2013, 03:13 PM
Anybody here powder coating their cast bullets?

Nope, I'm shooting them.

Don

BBQJOE
August 4, 2013, 06:33 PM
I've spent a good part of this summer developing loads for my latest addition/addiction to reloading; casting.
I had the casting down pretty quick, but have spent a lot of time with waxes, alox, and alox formulas.
It's just too hot for any luck with pan lubing, and I have given up on tumble lubes of any variety. Sticky, stinky bullets, gummed up dies, and filthy hands after shooting and handling bullets.

I have finally settled on the hi-tek lube, and I'm quite happy with it.
It's not any more expensive that just about anything out there.
A half liter kit runs $36 and will coat around 12,000 bullets.

It takes longer than most lube methods, but it's all just a hobby to me, so time doesn't matter to me.

My barrels are pretty clean, no goo all over the place, and smoke is greatly reduced.

As with anything, there is a learning curve with it, but if you read the threads carefully, there is more than enough info to get it right right off the bat.

I suggest this method to anyone, except those in an all fired hurry.
The hi-tek method isn't powder coating.

The powder coating looks a little more involved, maybe more time and expense too.

flashhole
August 4, 2013, 06:51 PM
I like the Alox but coating the entire bullet is messy. I brush it on the shaft and leave the tip clean. The trick to Alox (if there is one) is letting it dry completely. That can take a couple of days.

jmorris
August 4, 2013, 07:00 PM
same as moly coat? I'm sold on moly coat (bear creek supply uses it). High pressure/temperature lube, stays on the bullet, no lead, higher velocities for same charge.

A true powdered moly coat, like you get with the Lyman moly coat kit, is awful on cast bullets.

The coated bullets like bear creek, precision, bayou and others only contain a small percentage of "moly".

PO2Hammer
August 5, 2013, 03:15 PM
I like the Alox but coating the entire bullet is messy. I brush it on the shaft and leave the tip clean. The trick to Alox (if there is one) is letting it dry completely. That can take a couple of days.
Another trick is to put a small (1"X3") scrap of cotton t-shirt or similar on a piece of glass and lightly wet it with alox. Roll the bullets on it and only the bearing surface will be coated.
Keeps the alox out of your dies.

Warm them with a hair dryer then put them under the A/C vent. They will dry very quickly.

tyeo098
August 5, 2013, 04:47 PM
I bought a PC gun at HF a few days ago.

No one has come up with a step-by-step tutorial on it, so it sits until I learn on my own.

I'm currently running some Darr Lube and PB gas checks.

jmorris
August 6, 2013, 11:28 AM
What is the coefficient of friction compared to bullet lube grease like Alox?
What is the coefficient of friction of a bullet lubed with Alox?

What about the coefficient of friction of a jacketed bullet?

Do you know how they measure it?

I am thinking pushing them through something using hydraulics with a pressure gauge, that would give you relative numbers.

Let me know, as I still have a hand full of the powder coated bullets I could test.

jmorris
August 6, 2013, 11:32 AM
I bought a PC gun at HF a few days ago.

No one has come up with a step-by-step tutorial on it, so it sits until I learn on my own.



Look at the first link of post #10, it is step by step of powder coating bullets.

The second link is step by step using The coating from Bayou bullets.

I would return the powder coat gun if you plan on doing very many. I can coat hundreds with the Bayou coating in the same time it takes to powder coat less than 50.

jaysouth
August 7, 2013, 02:16 AM
I have been using the lacquer thinner with Powder by the pound coating paint. It is great. Accuracy is good and the two biggest bugaboos of bullet casting are now out the door! You can ignore the dark arts of bullet alloys and secret lube formuli using eye of newt and frog hair. Simply cast you bullets with whatever lead you have on hand and powder coat.

Good to 3,000 FPS with no leading or powder coating left in the barrel.

If you are serious about this new method, follow this thread:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/66713-powder-coating-the-easy-way/

USSR
August 7, 2013, 08:31 AM
You can ignore the dark arts of bullet alloys and secret lube formuli using eye of newt and frog hair.

Nah, got a big stockpile of newt eyes and frog hairs.

Don

Tommy Van Alen
August 8, 2013, 05:40 PM
I have been using the lacquer thinner with Powder by the pound coating paint. It is great. Accuracy is good and the two biggest bugaboos of bullet casting are now out the door! You can ignore the dark arts of bullet alloys and secret lube formuli using eye of newt and frog hair. Simply cast you bullets with whatever lead you have on hand and powder coat.

Good to 3,000 FPS with no leading or powder coating left in the barrel.

If you are serious about this new method, follow this thread:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/66713-powder-coating-the-easy-way/
that's a good write up! Thanks!

silicosys4
August 9, 2013, 03:47 PM
I have been using the lacquer thinner with Powder by the pound coating paint. It is great. Accuracy is good and the two biggest bugaboos of bullet casting are now out the door! You can ignore the dark arts of bullet alloys and secret lube formuli using eye of newt and frog hair. Simply cast you bullets with whatever lead you have on hand and powder coat.

Good to 3,000 FPS with no leading or powder coating left in the barrel.

If you are serious about this new method, follow this thread:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/66713-powder-coating-the-easy-way/

Dark art? Lol....I didn't know I was a master of tumble lubing and wheel weight alloy to get no leading and great accuracy.....it's not rocket science.

Is powder coating 20,000 bullets less costly than tumble lubing them with the $15 worth of lube tumble lubing costs?
Does it take longer to powder coat than the 5 minutes per 1k bullets to tumble lube them?
How do you resize home cast bullets for powder coating...? After they are coated? Before? How do you lube them for the sizing die if before?

To me, powder coating offers no advantages over tumble lubing for my reloading. Perhaps if I were loading cast bullets for higher velocity rifle loads...but the sizing issues still remain as far as I know

jmorris
August 9, 2013, 06:47 PM
I dip lubed before and used a machine I built right after I finished the casting machine. It uses the same collator that my presses use, just has a device to flip them from base down to nose nown for sizing.

The coated bullets just get me less smoke, that is a bonus for the gun games I play. Powder coat was just too slow.

The cost is less than $12/1000, using the bayou coating.

I will say that I had no problem with regular cast bullets for decades before the smoke they put out were less than ideal for what I was using them for.


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/center.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/left.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/die.jpg

Tommy Van Alen
August 10, 2013, 09:45 AM
Is anybody shooting the Bayou Bullets coating through a USPSA open gun or through a .300 Blackout suppressor?

Anybody doing the same with the powder coat?

I picked up a tub of fluorescent green powder coat last night. I am about to head to the hardware store to get some mesh/screen.

Thanks again for that write up supa-fly. I am going to glance over it one more time to see if there is anything else I need from the store.

flashhole
August 10, 2013, 11:02 AM
What information is available on the hardness of the powder material? Is barrel wear or excessive throat erosion a concern? The powder coating will be a lot harder than conventional lubes and probably harder than the lead bullet. Have you ever recovered a powder coated bullet and examined it?

popper
August 10, 2013, 12:43 PM
PC applied with the HF gun & powder works fine. Clean bbl, 1" 20 rnd groups @ 50 from a LR308 carbine @ 2240 fps,GCd, basically a mag dump off sand bags. Same results with 30-30 PB ~1800.

jaysouth
August 10, 2013, 02:07 PM
I did an anvil test on a powder coat/lacquer thinner bullet cured 10 minutes in a 400 degree oven. The powder coat stays on the bullet even after being flattened with a large hammer.

Depending on depth of coatine, I may resize in a Lee push-through die.

For lack of experience, no comment on long term wear on barrels/throats. I know a fellow tinkerer that shoots .223 coated bullets at 3,000 fps. No leading or powder residue left in the barrel.

jmorris
August 10, 2013, 04:07 PM
Have you ever recovered a powder coated bullet and examined it?


Powder coated
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/Coating/IMG_20130310_175432_179_zps4c841f65.jpg



The top one is one I coated with the bayou coating.

The bottom one is a Precision Bullets coated bullet.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=183275&d=1366947660


This was a test using a bayou coated bullet next to the same cast bullet uncoated on an aluminum plate. The heat was removed when the first bullet began to melt.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=183058&d=1366490399
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=183059&d=1366490399

And the hammer test.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/Coating/IMG_20130419_153715_752_zps29150319.jpg

Garyshome
August 11, 2013, 11:37 PM
Just started PC'ing. Haven't shot any yet, still too much to learn before I load a bunch up. Seems if I am going to learn about lubes, maybe just skip that part and go with PC'ing. Them boys at cast boolits are talking 2400 fps!

M1GarandDeerHunter
August 12, 2013, 04:01 AM
Thanks for the info guys! I read the thread that fully explains the process and pitfalls and I'm thinking about trying it. A friend that was a commercial reloader (now retired) gave me some 30-30 cast with what he called a powder coating to try. I am going to load them and see what they do now. Sounds really promising.

Field Tester
August 12, 2013, 05:05 AM
What are the pros and cons to coating? How/why did it originate? Was there a need for it or was someone just trying to come up with something a bit more colorful?

Am I to understand the coating acts similar to a gas check?

jmorris
August 12, 2013, 10:53 AM
I started coating for the same reason Precision bullets, bear creek bullets, bayou bullets and others sell coated bullets, you don't have to use a wax lube that smokes and it is simple/cheap relative to plating (I tried that too).

Thompsoncustom
August 12, 2013, 11:37 AM
No mess, lower smoke, you can push softer alloys faster.

tyeo098
August 13, 2013, 02:53 PM
.30 Carbine, in red :)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s249/tyeo098/20130807_221511_zps71d781f6.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/tyeo098/media/20130807_221511_zps71d781f6.jpg.html)

flashhole
August 14, 2013, 02:57 PM
Looks like a tube of lipstick.

AABEN
August 14, 2013, 03:29 PM
YES it does what will they come up with next?

tyeo098
August 14, 2013, 04:31 PM
I've got a bunch of .358 RNFP's lined up for this afternoon as well.

flashhole
August 14, 2013, 05:15 PM
Use silver paint and you cold be the Lone Ranger.

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