questions and advice about colt clone BP revolvers


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ivankerley
August 4, 2013, 07:23 PM
I dont get much opportunity to see let alone handle many BP guns in my local shops but yesterday i got to handle a .36 cal Uberti (1861? navy i think), beautiful revolver but the grip was a little small (got big hands).

So my 1st question: the difference between the grip and over all size between a say 1860 Army and the 61 Navy, is it a dramatic difference or slight?

2nd question: is there any difference between a uberti/pietta sold through say cimmaron or taylors vs. Dixie, cabellas etc.?

I'm finally in a position to buy myself a BP revolver, had my heart set on an 1860 Army for a couple years and was hoping for some insight. ive read all the uberti vs pietta threads and im kinda leaning towards the uberti as ive handled a couple of theirs, F&F seemed excellent, havent had the opportunity to handle a pietta though
Thanks
Gene

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brushhippie
August 4, 2013, 08:30 PM
The 60 has a bigger grip, dramatic.....kinda...and I kinda lean toward Piettas nowadays.

Ifishsum
August 4, 2013, 09:38 PM
The '60 Army is my favorite, both for aesthetics and for shooting - especially since installing a taller front sight. I also have a '58 rem, both are recently manufatured Piettas and I've got no complaints on the fit/finish/function of either but I did adjust the bolt timing a little bit on the 60. I've looked over a few Ubertis as well and I'm not sure they have much on Pietta honestly, which I gather hasn't always been so. Pietta is worth a look in my book anyway.

Prairie Dawg
August 4, 2013, 10:30 PM
Army grip is bigger & longer by about 3/4 inch.
Big difference in 1860 Army & 1861 --Size of gun, length of barrel, size of grips 44 vs 36 caliber. Army is bigger in every way.
I like Piettas & have many of them.
Ubertis are nice & I have a couple of them, but Piettas are fine guns & are much lower in price.
Most of my guns are Cabelas.
I have some Cimarron & Navy Arms, & Taylors
But, by the time you tune 'em, they are all about the same IMHO
--Dawg

swathdiver
August 5, 2013, 04:39 AM
DO you have large hands? If so you may appreciate the longer Army grip while using the Navy grip most fellas curl their pinky under it which aids in support.

If you like the Army but like the Navy grip, well you can simply swap them out within brands generally.

J-Bar
August 5, 2013, 01:27 PM
Follow your heart and buy the 1860.

You will eventually wind up with a variety of 'em anyway!

CraigC
August 5, 2013, 01:44 PM
Army is bigger in every way.
Not really. The 1860 Army and 1861 Navy are almost identical. Same barrel profile and far as I can tell, Uberti 1861's are 7", while Pietta's are 8". The `60's grip is only a quarter inch longer (not 3/4") and that is the only difference in grips. The 1860 has the rebated cylinder for .44cal but otherwise, they are almost the same sixgun.

Everybody's hands are bigger than the Navy/SAA grip. What makes them manageable is to stop trying to cram all your digits on the grip frame and tuck that pinky under.

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/miscellaneous/large/Strong%2005b.jpg

ivankerley
August 5, 2013, 01:51 PM
i appreciate the advice and insight, im indeed sold on the '60 Army; just need to figure out who to buy from etc.
is there any advantage to buying Cimarron or Taylors? Are they finished to a higher degree or do they cherry pick theirs? Also are they marked differently?
Thanks
Gene

CraigC
August 5, 2013, 02:07 PM
They 'say' they're held to higher QC standards but I have seen very little difference in guns from Cimarron, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works and Uberti-branded guns imported by Stoeger. I'd go with the best price. I would have historically gone for Uberti's but the new Pietta's are very, very good guns and fully equal. Maybe, possibly, perhaps even a little better.

ivankerley
August 5, 2013, 02:31 PM
They 'say' they're held to higher QC standards but I have seen very little difference in guns from Cimarron, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works and Uberti-branded guns imported by Stoeger. I'd go with the best price. I would have historically gone for Uberti's but the new Pietta's are very, very good guns and fully equal. Maybe, possibly, perhaps even a little better.
thanks! i kind of suspected that. Being my first BP revolver i suppose the only thing im concerned about is being underwhelmed with the F&F especially if im buying new.
Unfortunately i havent handled or seen a pietta in person, have seen and handled a few different ubertis... Understand tinkering regardless of brand is to be expected, just want to avoid alot of F&F fixes before any other tinkering goes on if you know what i mean
Thanks
Gene

toolslinger
August 5, 2013, 06:53 PM
Just within the last 3-4 years I have acquired 4 Piettas and 1 Uberti. I see very little difference in quality. They all seem very nice, well timed and well finished. I also got the big hands and you will definitely like the Army grip better. Soon as I can find proper grip frames my Navy and Griswold and Gunnison are getting Army grips. I hate curling my pinky.

BHP FAN
August 5, 2013, 08:48 PM
....get a Remington. no, seriously-if you want an ''Colt'' 1860, and always have, get a pair of them. the 1860 was probably the ultimate evolution of the Colt pattern revolver. even the elegant 1861 .36 is just a down sized 1860 .44. I would get Piettas from Cabelas. They have a no BS return policy, the best I've seen. I used to say that Uberti made the best guns, but that's in the past. Uberti's guns have got no worse, but Piettas have come waaay up in quality over the years, the main differnce now, is price.

ivankerley
August 5, 2013, 09:48 PM
....get a Remington. no, seriously-if you want an ''Colt'' 1860, and always have, get a pair of them. the 1860 was probably the ultimate evolution of the Colt pattern revolver. even the elegant 1861 .36 is just a down sized 1860 .44. I would get Piettas from Cabelas. They have a no BS return policy, the best I've seen. I used to say that Uberti made the best guns, but that's in the past. Uberti's guns have got no worse, but Piettas have come waaay up in quality over the years, the main differnce now, is price.
i will use your suggestion when my wife asks why on earth i needed 2 of them:D
Remmies are fine just not for me ive had a thing for the colts since i was a kid, my dad had an old cap gun from when he was a kid that was a '60, lever worked and everything, beat to death but still cool
Thanks
gene

BHP FAN
August 5, 2013, 10:59 PM
I had the same cap gun! My first ''real'' gun was a .22 when I was ten or twelve, my first handgun was an old Navy Arms ''Colt'' '51 Navy .36, with a short barrel. It balanced well, but lacked in the accuracy dept. When I got my first Remington, there was no looking back. Go with the Colts though, you need to scratch that itch! Nothing else ''feels'' like a good 1860, the smooth, elegant lines, the well designed, practical loading lever. Like the Walker and the Dragoon, it was an ''open top'' .44, but a whole lot handier to carry.

Rom828
August 5, 2013, 11:22 PM
I'm sorry to say this but for a first-timer I'd get the Remington. That or get very good at knocking out the wedge that retains the barrel and putting it back together. You'll want to wipe it down every other cylinder full to keep it clean and operating. Why the Remington? Pull down the loading lever, pull out the pin, and the cylinder falls right out. Nothing kills the enthusiasm like a gummed up revolver or one that's stuck because a piece of cap fell down into the lockwork. Black powder revolvers are like playing golf. You'll have very good days and others, not so good.

ivankerley
August 5, 2013, 11:32 PM
while i appreciate the advice the remmies (while fine guns im sure) do nothing for me, and ive read all about the pains and joys of open tops :D
but i will not be deterred, its an 1860 army!
Thanks
Gene

ps heck im even on the fence with the Ruger old army, i swear just cause it looks more like a remmie than a colt:D

Driftwood Johnson
August 5, 2013, 11:39 PM
Howdy

I'm glad CraigC corrected the misinformation about the size of the 1860 Army.

The grip is indeed only about 1/4" longer than the 1851/1861/SAA grip. I too ALWAYS grip a SAA type revolver with my pinky under the grip. That is how it was designed, no point trying to cram the entire hand onto the short grip. With the 1/4" longer 1860 grip, it is too big for me to get my pinky under, and a little bit too small for me to cram my entire hand on. With my pinky under the 1860 grip, I have to regrip in order to reach the hammer spur to cock the hammer. With my entire hand on the grip I can reach the hammer spur, but I have to regrip again to shift my hand down just a smidge so that I have good trigger control. If the grip was another 1/4" longer, it would be good for me, but it ain't. I strongly suggest trying both grips, and going through the entire exercise of cocking the hammer, then seeing if the hand needs to shift in order to shoot the gun comfortably. Don't drop the hammer, just ease it down. See which one fits best, both with the pinky under the grip and with the entire hand crammed onto the grip.

The frames of the 1851 Navy, 1860 Army, and 1861 Navy are all exactly the same size. What Colt did with the 1860 Army was take the Navy 36 caliber cylinder, and add metal to the front end, in order to fit six 44 caliber chambers in. but the rear of the cylinder where the nipples are remained the same diameter. The frame then had a relief cut to accept the larger diameter of the front of the cylinder. But other than that relief cut, the frames are exactly the same size.


I'm sorry to say this but for a first-timer I'd get the Remington. That or get very good at knocking out the wedge that retains the barrel and putting it back together. You'll want to wipe it down every other cylinder full to keep it clean and operating. Why the Remington? Pull down the loading lever, pull out the pin, and the cylinder falls right out. Nothing kills the enthusiasm like a gummed up revolver or one that's stuck because a piece of cap fell down into the lockwork. Black powder revolvers are like playing golf. You'll have very good days and others, not so good.

Sorry, but I disagree. Of all the Black Powder revolvers, the 1858 Remington is the worst for binding up. That is because 1. there is no cylinder bushing to keep fouling blasted off the cylinder pin, and 2. the pin is very narrow and binds up quickly. While Colts also lack a cylinder bushiing, the cylinder arbor is much larger in diameter, and that spreads out the fouling more. In addition, the Colt design incorporates a helical groove running around the arbor which creates clearance for fouling to be deposited in. A properly lubed Colt open top type C&B will run longer without binding than a Remington, at least that is my experience. I can shoot an entire CAS match with my 1860s without wiping down anything, or driving out the wedge. With my Remmies, I have to stop and wipe off the cylinders and the cylinder pins every other cylinder full or they will bind up. Of course, the mechanics of the Remmie does make this easier to do than with a Colt type.

Pancho
August 5, 2013, 11:57 PM
I had one of those cap guns too. I asked my mom for a "Fanner-50" and she bought the Colt instead. I was about 11 at the time and that colt was BIG.

Fingers McGee
August 6, 2013, 12:38 AM
What Driftwood said +1

BowerR64
August 6, 2013, 01:31 AM
I'm sorry to say this but for a first-timer I'd get the Remington. That or get very good at knocking out the wedge that retains the barrel and putting it back together. You'll want to wipe it down every other cylinder full to keep it clean and operating. Why the Remington? Pull down the loading lever, pull out the pin, and the cylinder falls right out. Nothing kills the enthusiasm like a gummed up revolver or one that's stuck because a piece of cap fell down into the lockwork. Black powder revolvers are like playing golf. You'll have very good days and others, not so good.
I agree with you, i have 2 of the colts and 3 remingtons and i like the way the remingtons work the best.

I always prefer guns that you can tear down without needing any tools.

Ive seen people just push the wedge out but mine are not like that at all. I have to use a cloths pin and a hammer to get mine out.

Ifishsum
August 6, 2013, 01:56 AM
I also agree with Driftwood - the wedge on the 1851/1860s isn't a problem with the right technique, and the combination of the open top (gives the fouling somewhere else to go) and the large cylinder arbor allows for more rounds before the crud starts slowing things down. The Remy goes about 3 cylinders before I need to at least pull the pin and wipe it down, the Colt will usually go many more for me. I lube the arbor with virgin olive oil (same with the cylinder pin on the Remy).

I have one of those small Lyman hammers with interchangeable brass, steel and plastic heads and a brass punch stored in the handle. Great for helping tap the wedge in or out. Also find a couple of older pennies made of real copper, they are handy to help tap out the wedge without marking it up.

J-Bar
August 6, 2013, 12:12 PM
If you have to really work hard to remove a wedge, then you have driven it in too far in the first place, or it was not fitted properly originally. After making sure that the arbor is fitted properly to the barrel, some judicious filing may be needed. Others can describe fitting a wedge better than I, I am sure.

I like mine to seat firmly enough that either hard thumb pressure or a tap with a plastic screwdriver handle can dislodge it. And I make sure there is a film of some kind of lube on it when I put it back in.

realitycheck
August 6, 2013, 12:22 PM
everybody will say different.no right or wrong. but a long time ago,the first blk powder revolver i got was a Pietta 1851 Confederate Navy 44, from Cabelas, and it came looking beautiful.th mechanics were tight,the wood looked like fancy grade,the blue and brass were shiny,and everything seemed to work well. It was the least expensive one they had.Piettas use .454 balls best. In my opinion though,you should choose a steel frame instead of brass,because theyre stronger and last longer.
Regards

ivankerley
August 6, 2013, 12:53 PM
everybody will say different.no right or wrong. but a long time ago,the first blk powder revolver i got was a Pietta 1851 Confederate Navy 44, from Cabelas, and it came looking beautiful.th mechanics were tight,the wood looked like fancy grade,the blue and brass were shiny,and everything seemed to work well. It was the least expensive one they had.Piettas use .454 balls best. In my opinion though,you should choose a steel frame instead of brass,because theyre stronger and last longer.
Regards
thanks, nice to hear a glowing review of a budget pietta, guys are making it hard to just say Uberti and be done with it ;-)
Also i will be going with the steel frame, later on i'll get a brass frame im sure
Thanks Again
Gene

Driftwood Johnson
August 6, 2013, 10:27 PM
Well, I will be the naysayer.

A few years ago Cabellas had Pietta 1860 Army revolvers on sale. Don't remember the price, probably about $200. So I ran up to the nearest Cabellas and bought a pair.

Nice guns, but I WAS NOT pleased with the burrs that had been left on the surface of the frames and then the case hardening finish applied over them. The proper thing to do would have been to polish off the burrs BEFORE case hardening the frames. As it is, if I were to grind off the burrs now, it would look like heck and stand out like a sore thumb.

When you buy something cheap, there is a reason it is cheap. Here is one Cowboy who wishes he had spent a little bit more money on a pair of Ubertis.

Tinpan58
August 6, 2013, 11:06 PM
I think the biggest difference Uberti does a better job on grips as the finish is better and if you are getting an 1851, the uberti grips are closer to the originals. Uberti also does not stamp "For black powder use only" on the barrel of the gun. Having said that most my guns are piettas. I only have 2 ubertis and their price were hard to ignore.

CraigC
August 7, 2013, 12:33 AM
A few years ago Cabellas had Pietta 1860 Army revolvers on sale. Don't remember the price, probably about $200. So I ran up to the nearest Cabellas and bought a pair.
Pietta's from just a few years ago are not like the ones made today. My pair of 1860's I bought back in 2006 are rough guns, inside and out. The guns from the past couple years are every bit the equal of Uberti. Actually, my new Pietta 1851 London is better and smoother.

ivankerley
August 7, 2013, 02:01 PM
So are guns from Taylors or Cimmeron marked as such?
Gene

Crawdad1
August 7, 2013, 02:34 PM
Gene, no, the revolvers are not marked or stamped Cimarron Arms or Taylors & Company.

Just some added info for you to chew on, I was very disappointed in my ONE purchase from Cabelas. I have never been disappointed in all of my purchases from Taylor's or Cimarron. Take that info anyway you want, I'm just saying.

fdf
August 7, 2013, 02:57 PM
2nd question: is there any difference between a uberti/pietta sold through say cimmaron or taylors vs. Dixie, cabellas etc.?



Thanks for the marking information, interesting.

You get what you pay for, spend more money and get a better pistol. From Taylors and Cimarron, you can choose the finish you wish, not at Cabelas. Cost from the other folks is higher, but I like to choose what finish I want.

It's your money spend it how you can afford.

Over the years from reading different places, Pietta quality has wandered all over the place (poor to much better today).

Several years ago they were bluing the cylinders with the nipples in place and it was impossible to get the nipples out, the bluing welded them in place.

I read and research a lot before spending my money and I settled on Ubertti for the quality of products made at the time.

Another reason Ubertti gets the nod, is the front sight can be drifted to change the ball impact on the target. I have a .36 which shoots high and to the left, I can drift the front sight and change where the ball impacts the target, not so on the Pietta.

Pietta stamps the top of the barrel with writing and Ubertti puts the writing under the loading level where it's not seen. I don't like the writing on top, it's just me.

We all spend our money based on what we can afford. Years ago it would have been Pietta, today it's Ubertti, Taylor's and number one is Cimarron.

Spend what you can and go enjoy, no one is going to read the writing on the barrel to see who made it.

mykeal
August 7, 2013, 05:11 PM
Gene, no, the revolvers are not marked or stamped Cimarron Arms or Taylors & Company.
Uh, well, Cimarron's are, at least some are:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201862%20Navy/Uberti%20Cimmaron/P9060201.jpg (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/mykealsm/media/Guns/Colt%201862%20Navy/Uberti%20Cimmaron/P9060201.jpg.html)


That was on this gun, made in 2005:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201862%20Navy/Uberti%20Cimmaron/200-1.jpg (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/mykealsm/media/Guns/Colt%201862%20Navy/Uberti%20Cimmaron/200-1.jpg.html)

Crawdad1
August 7, 2013, 05:21 PM
Hmmm, should have stuck to what I know for certain. None of my Taylor's are marked and the few Cimarron's that me and my buddies have are not marked either. But as Mykeal has pointed out that doesn't mean they all aren't.:)

CraigC
August 7, 2013, 05:57 PM
All my guns from Cimarron, Taylor's and Dixie Gun Works are stamped as such. Uberti's "house brand" guns are marked Stoeger. Isn't it a legal requirement for importation???

My six month old Pietta Navy is marked "BLACK POWDER ONLY .36 CAL." on the left side and with the maker's name on the right. The only proof marks are in a tiny cluster on the right side of the frame. I do not find these markings offensive at all. My year or so old Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon has proof marks on the sides of both the barrel and frame. So it's not like one is totally clean and the other has visible markings all over it. If I paid $3000 for an engraved USFA that had these markings I might be upset over it. Can we really be 'that' picky over guns that are this cheap???

fdf
August 7, 2013, 06:32 PM
All my guns from Cimarron, Taylor's and Dixie Gun Works are stamped as such. Can we really be 'that' picky over guns that are this cheap???

Nope, I spend my money as I wish, as long as a person is happy that is all that counts.

ivankerley
August 7, 2013, 06:43 PM
All my guns from Cimarron, Taylor's and Dixie Gun Works are stamped as such. Uberti's "house brand" guns are marked Stoeger. Isn't it a legal requirement for importation???

My six month old Pietta Navy is marked "BLACK POWDER ONLY .36 CAL." on the left side and with the maker's name on the right. The only proof marks are in a tiny cluster on the right side of the frame. I do not find these markings offensive at all. My year or so old Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon has proof marks on the sides of both the barrel and frame. So it's not like one is totally clean and the other has visible markings all over it. If I paid $3000 for an engraved USFA that had these markings I might be upset over it. Can we really be 'that' picky over guns that are this cheap???
shouldve clarified i dont have a problem with the markings, was curious if taylors or cimarron had theirs marked special in place of ubertis, while id prefer it to not have billboards all over it, im really not that picky, likely wouldnt affect my buying one. I did art work for a "SFO" Pocket Knife where our stamp was featured on the tang and GEC was on the flip side
Thats kinda what i was trying to see if cimarron did something similar
Thanks for the clarification
Gene

Crawdad1
August 8, 2013, 09:32 AM
I think Craig and I are talking about two different things. Or maybe I have it wrong, but I thought that Ivankerley was referring to a Cimarron Arms or a Taylor's & Company indentifying stamp on the barrel. But all the revolvers that they sale have an importation stamp on them somewhere and a proof mark on the outside of the barrel, as required.

Willie Sutton
August 8, 2013, 09:43 AM
Taylors and Stoeger Uberti's have "Uberti, Italy, Black Power Only" marked UNDER the loading lever. No external markings at all are visible without dropping the lever. Neither say "Taylor" or "Stoeger" anyplace on them.

Cimmaron are identical except they ADD the "Address Cimmaron.." marking to the TOP of the BBL to semi-replicate the colt ""Address" roll mark on the top of the BBL.


The above is based on having over two dozen of these things on hand...



I won't even discuss the ugly markings on the Piettas. I'd buy them except for this defacement of an otherwise satisfactory revolver.



Willie

.

Crawdad1
August 8, 2013, 09:47 AM
Doesn't HH, who posts here, have a defarbing company that will take all of the visible markings off the revolver?

CraigC
August 8, 2013, 11:42 AM
All my guns from these importers are stamped like mykeal's above, Cimarron, Taylor's and Dixie.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/Colt%201862%20Navy/Uberti%20Cimmaron/P9060201.jpg

ivankerley
August 8, 2013, 12:26 PM
thanks guys, appreciate all the input
im leaning toward a cimarron, be a couple weeks but i'll be ordering before the end of the month!
Thanks
Gene

Willie Sutton
August 8, 2013, 09:58 PM
^^ Any Uberti will be identical: Taylors imports, Cimmaron's imports, and Stoegers imports. Pick the model, and buy from whatever source has them available. They are identical for design, manufacure, fit, and finish.

Cimmarons's will have one extra roll mark on the top of the barrel as compared to the other two importers. It's not offensive, but it adds nothing to desirability either. They are all the same pieces of hardware.



"Uberti's "house brand" guns are marked Stoeger. Isn't it a legal requirement for importation???"

(1): No they aren't, and (2): no it's not.

To (1): I have never seen any stamping of "Stoeger" anyplace on any of the half dozen or more Stoeger imported Uberti revolvers I own, nor are there any importers markings anyplace. Just the "black powder only" marking under the loading lever. "Non-Cimmaron" Ubertis are imported by Taylors and Stoeger. Both are marked identically... neither with "Stoeger" or "Taylors". This is true of the current imports. If something was imported ten years ago, it may have been different. But today there is nothing else stamped on them.

To (2): These are not "firearms" and there is no import regulation requirement making markings of any sort required.



Willie

.

ivankerley
August 30, 2013, 05:27 PM
jumped in and ordered my 1860, Cimarron ships it tuesday, gonna be a looong wait:D
i will follow up with picts and whatnot after i get it, just in time to hopefully buy all the doodads and whatnots for it when im down at friendship in a few weeks!
Be shopping for my hawkens and now the '60
Thanks to everyone on here, appreciate it
regards
Gene

texas jacks was a 3-6 month wait! holy cow!i finally went with cimarron strictly 'cause ive oggled their site for years, dixie had them a little cheaper but just figured id throw some money at texas this time:D

BullSlinger
September 1, 2013, 12:46 AM
Well done.

CraigC
September 1, 2013, 01:43 AM
Every other Uberti I have from every other importer, including a 27yr old Interarms is marked with importer markings.

I have never seen any stamping of "Stoeger" anyplace on any of the half dozen or more Stoeger imported Uberti revolvers I own
What, you mean like this S&W replica??? I knew I wasn't losing my mind. Now maybe the percussion guns aren't marked this way but the cartridge guns sure as hell are. :rolleyes:
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/top_break_no3_2nd_pearl_nickel_lg.jpg


Or this one?
http://i50.tinypic.com/rkaq13.jpg

kituwa
September 1, 2013, 03:57 PM
I just want to add that while the 1860 grip is only 1/4 inch longer, it does make it feel 3/4 inch longer in your hand. The 1860 to me is one of the sexiest looking of all the cap and ball revolvers. The problems with open top colts are not hard to fix and there are plenty of people here that can guide you through on tuning one up if you need help. Once tuned they go from being a 'toy' to having the feel of real quality. It wont be your last C&P gun, wont be long before you want a 51, 61, dragoon and a Walker. I think many have the same feel about Remingtons as you do at first. I bet that will change too after a while and you will have one of those too. Then one day you are going to be at a gun show or auction and come across an original 1860 colt, then we will see a post from you here wanting to know where the closest clinic is to sell a kidney.

ivankerley
September 1, 2013, 04:17 PM
a walker is definitely on my list, i held one for sale at friendship last year...
i agree with everything you posted 'cept them words about the remmies, not gonna happen!:D
thanks ill give an update when i get it, is it time yet:D
taking forever
Gene

CraigC
September 1, 2013, 04:21 PM
I just want to add that while the 1860 grip is only 1/4 inch longer, it does make it feel 3/4 inch longer in your hand.
I agree, it really does make a big difference in the hand.

Willie Sutton
September 1, 2013, 11:11 PM
"What, you mean like this S&W replica???"

No, not at all like your *cartridge* S&W replica, which *by law* has to have the importers markings, since in the eyes of the BATFE it's no different than a Glock.

The *cap and ball* revolvers we are discussing here are not firearms by federal definition and as such do not need to be marked with importers stamps, and in the case of Stoeger and Uberti imported *cap and ball* replicas, are not so marked.


Apples and Oranges.



Willie

.

CraigC
September 1, 2013, 11:54 PM
Apples and Oranges.
Not really. They all come from the same manufacturers, through the same importers and are all guns of the same period. Taylor's, Cimarron and Dixie Gun Works all mark theirs. Stoeger stamps their cartridge guns. It was only a logical assumption that they marked their percussion guns the same way. But thanks for the correction. :rolleyes:

ivankerley
September 2, 2013, 12:10 AM
from a total noobs standpoint these look like natural pointers, similar to what people say 'bout the open tops...ive liked these for awhile, and definitely got my attention beautiful pistol craig c
the ones ive seen are a little spendy, but im intrigued... the wheels are turning which means in time it'll cost me :D
Regards
Gene

Crawdad1
September 2, 2013, 04:22 PM
You have to remember Ivan, you'll be tearing these things apart a whole lot more than a modern cartridge revolver. If you're going to shoot and hunt with these things like I do on a daily or weekly basis then get a good one, they'll hold up a lot better.

ivankerley
September 2, 2013, 09:58 PM
You have to remember Ivan, you'll be tearing these things apart a whole lot more than a modern cartridge revolver. If you're going to shoot and hunt with these things like I do on a daily or weekly basis then get a good one, they'll hold up a lot better.
fully aware of this, thanks for the advice, what separates me from my buddies who shoot all the modern guns, im the odd duck in my crowd, constantly get looks like "why" and i explain it to them but they just dont seem to get it :D
their loss i suppose
regards
Gene

tpelle
September 10, 2013, 09:29 PM
I have both Colt "open top" replicas and the Remington with the top strap. I've found that I much prefer the Colt design overall. Practical accuracy, ease of loading, etc. are pretty much equal between the two designs. Theoretically the Remington is stronger, but in the real world, the Colt is plenty strong enough, so no advantage either way. And it's already been noted several times that the Colt handles the inevitable accumulation of fouling better.

The telling feature that makes me prefer the Colt is that, when it comes time to clean, the Colt design is so much easier. The fact that you can easily remove the barrel and cylinder - the parts that get the most fouling - and immerse them in water for cleaning is what makes this so.

With the Remington you have to remove the wooden grip panels and detail-strip the action parts in order to give them a real cleaning.

And the Colts - especially the 1860 - just feel so much better in the hand.

ivankerley
September 10, 2013, 11:13 PM
for the comparison between the two, got my '60 last night, shes a peach, when work calms down i'll shoot some picts, be buying supplies for this and my hawkens next weekend at friendship:D
Thanks
Gene

BCRider
September 11, 2013, 02:45 AM
One thing to keep in mind.....

Out of the 6 various makers and dates of open tops I've had they ALL needed the cylinder arbor extended or shimmed to make the wedge work the way it is supposed to work. It amazes me that the Italian makers can't sort out this one little issue.

And Uberti isn't innocent on this count either. I recently got an older used Uberti 1860 and it too needed the shim.

tpelle
September 11, 2013, 08:04 PM
The last two Pietta 1860s I bought, date code CH and CI, had arbors that were perfect! Since Pietta upgraded to CNC machinery for their production, their quality has gone way up.

In the old days - I'm talking the 1860s - They would make the arbor intentionally too long, and the assembler would file and try until it fit. Nowadays they just tweak the numbers in the computer, and every part comes out perfect and may need only a little final polishing, if that.

tpelle
September 11, 2013, 08:07 PM
One more thing I thought of in favor of the Colt open top design:

For shorter barreled revolvers, where there's not enough length to fit a loading lever, the cylinder can be loaded by taking the cylinder off of the frame, and using the arbor itself to press the ball in. That's one of the reason Colt made the arbors so big.

Noz
September 13, 2013, 05:05 PM
The biggest advantage of Piettas over Ubertis is the arbor length. Pietas are the correct length, at least have been on all of mine.

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