What kind of powder to create "low recoil" load?


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matt35750
August 6, 2013, 04:14 PM
I want to reload shotgun shells to shoot like the "reduced recoil" loads. I called Remington who said they use a slower burning powder. So what kind of powder should I use?

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rcmodel
August 6, 2013, 04:18 PM
You should go to Alliant or Hodgdon's website and find the brand of hulls you want to use.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx?page=/reloaders/index.aspx&

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

Then pick the shot charge weight.
Then pick the lowest velocity load they show.

Then use the kind of powder & wad the load recipe calls for you to use.

rc

rsrocket1
August 6, 2013, 04:24 PM
Best low recoil loads for 12 ga shotshells is 3/4 oz of shot with appropriate wad and primer. I can't believe Remington said slower burning powder. For a lighter payload, you want a fast burning powder. Red Dot, Clays, Titewad, Extra Lite, Clay Dot are the powders that work well with light loads. They burn fast, get the pressures up quickly and will even work gas operated actions. I shoot 3/4 oz 12 gauge rounds in my Remington 1100 for skeet and 16 yard trap and break the clays as well as with 1-1/8 oz loads. I've had a few 150 shot days and feel no soreness in my shoulder with these rounds.

Always follow the recipes to the "T" when loading shotshells.

Look on Alliant or Hodgdon's website for 3/4 or 7/8 oz 12 gauge loads and see what powders wads and primer combination is available to you. Most components are pretty tough to find at this time.

JO JO
August 6, 2013, 06:03 PM
I used red dot when I used to reload shot shells for
Trap nice light loads 16yrd

jstein650
August 6, 2013, 06:23 PM
There are different dynamics that are realized by the shooter when it comes to velocity, charge weight, and payload weight that relate to 'felt recoil'. The weight of the powder is absolutely included in the formula that adds to the 'free recoil' impulse.
Most all shotgunners go for a relatively light payload (shot), and the smallest possible charge to get the desired velocity. As such, the fast powders, Red Dot, etc., will give the least felt recoil at a reduced velocity, (~1100 fps), with a light payload (7/8 oz. in a 12). The biggest factor in this equation is the payload weight, followed closely by the velocity. I've heard some compelling arguments here that say a heavier bullet, in something like the 9mm with the required 'slow' powder will give a less apparent recoil impulse than a light bullet pushed fast. In a shotgun, the weight of the gun, in terms of inertia, overwhelms the weight and speed off the powder and its burn rate. In any case, since you're looking at 1100 to 1200+ fps, you need a fast powder for a light payload, and that means a relatively light load of fast powder. In other words, since you NEED a light payload, there is nothing to be gained by a slow powder to get it there, as it will only add to the mass of the ejecta, which will add to the recoil.

oneounceload
August 6, 2013, 06:28 PM
Low recoil is not always synonymous with low velocity, although velocity is a key component of recoil calculations

I run 3/4oz reloads running 1200 fps (checked via a chrono), using Titewad powder, ClayBuster 3/4oz wads in Remington hulls with Fiocchi primers. Works great - even in my 3.5" Beretta A400.

In that 7# gun, recoil is 12.3 ft-lbs.
Make it a standard 8# target gun, and the recoil is 10.8

Shoot the heaviest gun with the lightest and slowest load in a gun that FITS for the least amount of actual recoil and the least amount of perceived (aka kick) recoil

Actual and perceived are NOT the same, which is where fit comes into play

Kernel
August 6, 2013, 06:30 PM
^^^^^

Winner, winner, chicken dinner..

jstein650
August 6, 2013, 06:46 PM
Absolutely when it comes to fit. I had an old 20 ga. that kicked my a$$ every time I pulled the trigger, although it felt OK when I just shouldered it. I've had many 12 ga's shooting heavier loads that NEVER felt that sharp. It was an old Mossy with a full (though light) wood stock, and it always 'woke me up'. The OP was getting into powder types, so I kind of wanted to address that line of thinking..

matt35750
August 9, 2013, 02:50 AM
So if I wanted to make some low recoil 20 gauge 2-3/4" 3/4 oz #4 buckshot what kind of powder should I use and how much?

PACKIN' PLASTIC
August 9, 2013, 07:13 AM
You have to use data specific to your hulls and wads, most powder companies offer a limited amount of data online or else you can buy a loading manual to get more load options, BPI sells one specifically for buckshot.

If you want extremely light you can load your shells with black powder and pretty much do you own thing in terms of how much powder and shot you use. You could for example put 70 grains (max) of powder and the same volume of shot (about an ounce) or you could use a 50gr measure or even a 30gr measure and they will all function as they should.


PP

TonyT
August 9, 2013, 11:11 AM
I use WAALite powder which was specifically formulated for light loads in 12 ga. Data on the Hodgdon website.
In the past I have used Red Dot with various hulls and wads with 20 ga. fiber wad inserts to create light loads in 12 ga. with either 3/4 or 7/8 oz. payloads. A lot of experimentation and time on a patterning board is necessary to produce good low power reloads especially if one desires to use them in a semi auto shotgun.

45crittergitter
August 10, 2013, 11:29 PM
Federal recently announced their a new Top Gun Target Extra-Lite 12-gauge load with 7/8 oz. hard shot and Alliant Extra-Lite propellant for low recoil.

243winxb
August 11, 2013, 12:09 PM
So if I wanted to make some low recoil 20 gauge 2-3/4" 3/4 oz #4 buckshot what kind of powder should I use and how much? Shotshell

20 Gauge
•2 3/4-in. Remington Plastic Shells (STS)
•3/4 shot wt.
•Rem 209P
•CB 1075-20
3/4 oz shot- 1,155 fps - Rem 209P primer- "Unique" powder-14.5 gr.- CB 1075-20 wad- 7,500 psi

matt35750
August 11, 2013, 11:07 PM
Federal recently announced their a new Top Gun Target Extra-Lite 12-gauge load with 7/8 oz. hard shot and Alliant Extra-Lite propellant for low recoil.

Are reloading formulas available for Alliant Extra-Lite propellant in 20 gauge?

rsrocket1
August 11, 2013, 11:22 PM
Extra Lite may be too fast for 20 gauge. Luckily for 20 gauge users, they can use slower powders so if you want to go to 3/4 oz in 20, you can use quite a few slower powders such as Green Dot, Unique, International, PB, 20/28.

Here are some 3/4 oz loads using the CB -175-20 (http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-gauge/by-gauge-20/33-load-data-cb1075-20)

Save the Extra Lite for 12 gauge.

matt35750
August 12, 2013, 01:04 AM
Extra Lite may be too fast for 20 gauge. Luckily for 20 gauge users, they can use slower powders so if you want to go to 3/4 oz in 20, you can use quite a few slower powders such as Green Dot, Unique, International, PB, 20/28.

Here are some 3/4 oz loads using the CB -175-20 (http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-gauge/by-gauge-20/33-load-data-cb1075-20)

Save the Extra Lite for 12 gauge.

So is Extra Lite powder fast burning like red dot? What makes it "lite" then?

243winxb
August 12, 2013, 07:38 AM
FREE Reloading Guide from Alliant http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx Buckshot takes up more room in the shell than small shot like #8. So 3/4 oz of buck may not fit into the case?? Get data from http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

243winxb
August 12, 2013, 08:43 AM
So is Extra Lite powder fast burning like red dot? What makes it "lite" then? Ask the people that make it. http://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx Our new shotshell propellant provides less cost, less recoil and less headaches for those 12 gauge shooters transitioning from 1 1/8 ounce to 7/8 and 1 ounce loads. We understand that many shooters are looking for a powder that will have a density that allows use of standard components (wads and cases). These same shooters also want pressure levels that guarantee complete combustion across a broad temperature range while still being clean burning. Well... now they have it with Extra-Lite from Alliant Powder®.
•Powder density allows use of standard available components (wads and cases)
•Pressure level assures complete combustion across temperature ranges
•Extremely clean burning
•Made in the USA
•Lot to Lot consistency

oneounceload
August 12, 2013, 04:46 PM
You may or may not be able to use the 3/4 wad for buckshot, you might need to use the standard 7/8 to fit the pellets. If there is still a little room on the top so the crimp will come out too dished in, using a filler like a Cheerio, puffed rice, or similar works great and is biodegradable.

matt35750
August 13, 2013, 04:55 AM
Extra Lite may be too fast for 20 gauge. Luckily for 20 gauge users, they can use slower powders so if you want to go to 3/4 oz in 20, you can use quite a few slower powders such as Green Dot, Unique, International, PB, 20/28.

Here are some 3/4 oz loads using the CB -175-20 (http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-gauge/by-gauge-20/33-load-data-cb1075-20)

Save the Extra Lite for 12 gauge.

I like the idea of using the green dot but will it burn clean enough in a light 20 gauge 3/4 oz load?

blarby
August 13, 2013, 05:31 AM
Lemme grab my notes....

20 ga low recoil :

12.5gr / .095 bushing Unique
CCI Primer
WAA20 Wad
RP Hull

Used 1/2 oz of shot, or 5 count of #1 buck. Notes say that it wouldn't cycle my buddies semi auto, "but made him grin in the side-by side was like shooting a .22"

Thats for my buddy who only has one good hand to grip the gun with, so actual recoil is particularly important for him. Ya, I'm wiling to go "outside of the box" to get a handicapped friend out shooting more- feel free to stick that right in your "exact recipe" pipe and light it right on up. He joins me every time he can now, and has worked up to bigger rounds. We've gone through about 3 or 400 hundred of those 5 ball #1 loads. He's gotten to the point where he can take short clays with them :what:

We eventually got the gas gun running using HS-6, but you wanted lowest recoil.

There ya go.


IF you use the Lee powder charge table, the loads tend to be on the milder side.

I'll provide it for you here :http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/LA1071.pdf

That load data really sucks for slugs. Its really good for shot columns.

So if I wanted to make some low recoil 20 gauge 2-3/4" 3/4 oz #4 buckshot what kind of powder should I use and how much?

I don't use #4 , so I couldn't testify first hand. I would use a 7/8th oz load recipe in a trap wad, and load without overloading which will cause the case to buckle, or crappy crimps, or both. Weigh out #4 buck ( think its 27 pellets to the ounce ? ) - so you are looking at around 23 pellets, and find something that stacks right in the wad. a 3x3 pattern will net you 24 pellets, so thats gonna be a tricky stack, I can tell already. I wouldn't be afraid to use 24 if it stacked well, and crimped well. COnversely, I would be ok if I needed to use 21 and some buffer to get the crimp right.

When doing load workup, even using TP to help get the crimp right until you know what it needs to be can be really helpful- it was to me. Do yourself a favor- take a 20 ga hull, and glue a wad in it over the powder charge ( no new primer- this is just for stacking practice ) to make a "dummy" . You can try different loads stackin' in without the wad jumping around when you take the balls in and out.
After I made 5 or 6 of these to practice different kinds of shot/wads in 12 ga- I made one for 20ga, and .410, too.


You wont get a lot of help in "experimental" shotgun loads here at THR. Apparently you WILL put your eye out. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=725391) And thats sound advice- you should load carefully. You are trying to do something outside the box, so keep that in mind. When you go outside of published data into substitutions, it can get a little dicey- I know, firsthand. You've only got about a 6k psi window of operation, so please, load carefully.


I recommend the Lyman shotshell reloading book- it has a lot of info for 20 ga.

You can buy it here :

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/887011/lyman-shotshell-reloading-handbook-5th-edition-reloading-manual

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