FBI agent arrested for Oil filter suppressor


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JLCook
August 8, 2013, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure if this belongs here or in Class III. But a local FBI head (former) was charged with possession of unregistered suppressor. Looks like this may be just a charge to hold the guy on while more allegations are being looked in to. See below. Something to keep in mind of you bought a "solvent trap"

http://www.cbs19.tv/story/22826549/former-tyler-fbi-office-supervisor-awaits-sentencing-on-weapons-charge

http://ftpcontent4.worldnow.com/kltv/PDF/Brodyweaponsseized.pdf

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Midwest
August 8, 2013, 05:32 PM
"the former agent could face up to 10 years imprisonment. However, one official said due to Brody’s cooperation, he could receive as little as five years probation."

bnolsen
August 8, 2013, 05:45 PM
Pretty soon they're going require an ID check to purchase oil filters for your car. When does the insanity end?

Jim K
August 8, 2013, 05:56 PM
Why do I smell something wrong? It sounds like "we don't like him, let's get something on him". Political? Didn't sing the right tune? Was the suppressor in his home before BATFE showed up?

Jim

Fryerpower
August 8, 2013, 05:58 PM
Pretty soon possessing a solvent trap is going to be constructive possession.

JLCook
August 8, 2013, 06:02 PM
not sure. The guy had 2 previous DWI's that were downgraded to reckless endangerment, also he suddenly resigned. Smells funny to me.

Destructo6
August 8, 2013, 06:05 PM
If you'd read the article in its entirety, you may have a different opinion.

Sounds like he was a bad agent, quit before he could be fired, was using credentials (that should have been turned in) for questionable purposes, etc.

Jim K
August 8, 2013, 06:16 PM
If he was using invalid credentials, that is a felony; why was he not arrested for that? Why go to the trouble and expense of staging a massive raid and house search? More here than the press was told or that they told us.

Jim

Twmaster
August 8, 2013, 08:56 PM
This may be less about the man and more about a growing problem.

There are people on eBay selling adapters that allow you to screw an oil filter onto your 1/2"-28 threaded barrel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251306302131

Notice that more than 220 of these have been sold. Another listing I saw on eBay had more than 700 sold.

Think about it. You just bought part of a suppressor. You own a compatible rifle. That's likely considered "constructive intent".

And as you bought this on eBay there is a record of your purchase.

frankenstein406
August 8, 2013, 09:02 PM
This may be less about the man and more about a growing problem.

There are people on eBay selling adapters that allow you to screw an oil filter onto your 1/2"-28 threaded barrel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251306302131

Notice that more than 220 of these have been sold. Another listing I saw on eBay had more than 700 sold.

Think about it. You just bought part of a suppressor. You own a compatible rifle. That's likely considered "constructive intent".

And as you bought this on eBay there is a record of your purchase.
theres probably to fine of a line to risk it, I assume some people might just use it for a fake suppressor but even if your car used the same kind of oil filter you could still get slammed. to much of a gray area

Telekinesis
August 8, 2013, 09:35 PM
This may be less about the man and more about a growing problem.

There are people on eBay selling adapters that allow you to screw an oil filter onto your 1/2"-28 threaded barrel.


Hell, we've even got a guy selling them on this site!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=669483

I've always questioned the legality of the "solvent traps", especially once I saw the Econo-can advertisements which are NFA registered suppressors that look quite similar to the "solvent traps" being sold without any paperwork.
http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Class_III.html (2nd from the bottom)

SimplyChad
August 8, 2013, 10:54 PM
^^^ I think I might need to buy one of those

Telekinesis
August 8, 2013, 11:23 PM
^^^ I think I might need to buy one of those

Which one? The registered or unregistered silencer?

Remember, the wrong choice comes with a complimentary 10 year stay at club fed :evil:



All joking aside, I have heard that the oil filter suppressors aren't that practical, even compared to micro suppressors that also incorporate wipes. The only thing the oil filter adapter has going for it is initial purchase price. After that you're still stuck paying roughly $10 per "wipe", as opposed to cutting out little pieces of inexpensive rubber. (And last I heard, the ATF doesn't view metal as being wipe material)

wally
August 8, 2013, 11:49 PM
from the original article:
Brody admitted he possessed a homemade microguard silencer, which was not registered to him in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.

I've never heard of "microguard". The "solvent traps" and "Econo-can" appear similar but claim a different purpose, what makes folks here think one of the oil-filter things was the problem? Econo-can says "patent-pending" so unless "microguard" is an infringer I suspect its something different.

In any case it seems something he made instead of purchased what got him in trouble, what got them the warrant? Seems he was sketchy, with the bits about "credentials" in the story.

dprice3844444
August 9, 2013, 12:05 AM
just get the adapter registered

Twmaster
August 9, 2013, 01:40 AM
from the original article:


I've never heard of "microguard". The "solvent traps" and "Econo-can" appear similar but claim a different purpose, what makes folks here think one of the oil-filter things was the problem? Econo-can says "patent-pending" so unless "microguard" is an infringer I suspect its something different.

In any case it seems something he made instead of purchased what got him in trouble, what got them the warrant? Seems he was sketchy, with the bits about "credentials" in the story.

What's the difference whether he made the part or bought it??

He was caught in possession of an illegal can. I doubt the BATFE cares -how- it came into his possession.

JLCook
August 9, 2013, 10:04 AM
I've never heard of "microguard". The "solvent traps" and "Econo-can" appear similar but claim a different purpose, what makes folks here think one of the oil-filter things was the problem? Econo-can says "patent-pending" so unless "microguard" is an infringer I suspect its something different.


See this link below. Its a list of all of the things confiscated, including an oil-filter, a "solvent trap" and a microgaurd suppressor. FYI microgaurd is the store brand of oil filters at O'reilly auto parts

http://ftpcontent4.worldnow.com/kltv/PDF/Brodyweaponsseized.pdf

Art Eatman
August 9, 2013, 12:20 PM
In some chit-chat between my local FFL guy and a BATFE lady, her opinion was that these "solvent traps" can lead to a stay at Graybar Central.

A customer had brought one to the FFL's range to test it. Not very effective. My FFL guy says they're not worth the price, much less the legal risk.

MErl
August 9, 2013, 12:50 PM
So to do it legally you buy a filter, get it engraved then register it. Once that is approved you buy the solvent trap adapter? This avoids the constructive possession during wait time?

For ~$300 you end up with a light duty not extremely effective but better than nothing suppressor.

Telekinesis
August 9, 2013, 01:24 PM
So to do it legally you buy a filter, get it engraved then register it. Once that is approved you buy the solvent trap adapter? This avoids the constructive possession during wait time?

For ~$300 you end up with a light duty not extremely effective but better than nothing suppressor.


No, the adapter is legally the suppressor. The filter itself is just considered a wipe (and registering it would mean you just spent $200 on a one use wipe.) To legally have one, you need to buy an adapter that was manufactured by a SOT and registered on a form 2, that then transfers to you like a normal suppressor (form 3 to your dealer, form 4 to you).

Alternatively you can submit a form 1 to make the adapter, but you have to submit the form and blueprints of the proposed design, and then once you get it back YOU can manufacture the adapter (or have it manufactured in your presence). Short of an amnesty registration, there's no way a non licensee can legally register a NFA weapon that is already in existence.

And for just $100 more (including tax), you can buy a real suppressor. I bought both my Poseidon amd HTG Cycle 2 for $200 each before transfer.

Elkins45
August 9, 2013, 01:45 PM
Does BATFE consider replacing an entire oil filter the same as replacing a wipe? I seem to recall that one of the makers selling them as Form 4 silencers would replace your filter for you for a small fee once it wore out. They can do that because they are manufacturers (SOT) not makers like he home builder guy.

Still seems like an inefficient use of a $200 tax stamp to me.

Arizona_Mike
August 9, 2013, 01:56 PM
Guys, constructive possession consists of having the parts in such close proximity so as to serve no other lawful purpose (this was a court ruling in the Thompson Contender case that the ATF resisted for several years but finally accepted and codified in the regulations). I suspect he had a filter with a hole in the end full of gunshot residue . . .

Mike

Willie Sutton
August 10, 2013, 12:32 PM
"The filter itself is just considered a wipe"


Not to pick nits, but... I see this misconception recited again and again and again...

You do realize that the filters best used in legally registered "oil can suppressors" are a filter version that has a threaded hole at BOTH ends, not just at one? :banghead:


You do not shoot thru sheet-metal.... and they are not wipes. They are a filter that screws to an adapter on the engine at one side and which have a removable housing that screws to the other side.


Back to our normally scheduled rant now...



Willie

.

Telekinesis
August 10, 2013, 06:12 PM
You do realize that the filters best used in legally registered "oil can suppressors" are a filter version that has a threaded hole at BOTH ends, not just at one? :banghead:
You do not shoot thru sheet-metal.... and they are not wipes

Gee, maybe you should tell the guy who manufacturers these legally registered oil can suppressors? :rolleyes: Watch the video on the manufacturer's website (http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Class_III.html) and see what kind of filter he is using. Looks a lot like it is sealed on one end. In fact, there's even the text "watch the first round punch the hole through the can" on the promotional video.

In fact, they MUST be considered wipes as that is the only part of a suppressor that the ATF considers consumable and replaceable by those without 07/02s.

R.W.Dale
August 10, 2013, 08:14 PM
from the original article:


I've never heard of "microguard". The "solvent traps" and "Econo-can" appear similar but claim a different purpose, what makes folks here think one of the oil-filter things was the problem? Econo-can says "patent-pending" so unless "microguard" is an infringer I suspect its something different.



I've heard of microguard

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MGD1/MGL9100.oap?year=1993&make=Chevrolet&model=C1500&vi=1031331&pt=C0289&ppt=C0023
Kinda makes you wonder if the offending oil filter was just being used as an oil filter. More details are needed but right now it looks rather chilling

Willie Sutton
August 10, 2013, 08:40 PM
"In fact, they MUST be considered wipes as that is the only part of a suppressor that the ATF considers consumable and replaceable by those without 07/02s"


Uhh... no.

In fact, the suppressor must be returned to the manufacturer for replacement of the filter, (at a cost of $25.00....)


From the manufacturer:


"If or when you need to change the filter out, the ATF/NFA rules says it needs to come back to the original manufacturer. The cost is $25.00. The complete Suppressor can be shipped directly to us, for gunsmithing, which would be replacement/rehab/repair of the oil filter, with the serial # remarked, and documented as being replaced/rehabbed/repaired. The completed Suppressor can be sent back to you at your address on your NFA Tax Stamp Form. You do not need to go though a dealer for gunsmithing services. The life of the oil filter varies depending on caliber used and bullet type."



Perhaps there are more than one maker? No clue. But the ones I have seen are serialized on the FILTER and the ones I have shot (built on Form 1's) are definately open at both ends. The adapter will accept any of (hundreds?) of filter part numbers... but it's the filter (the "tube" is the major component, as per the BATFE) that gets the serial number. That's pretty simple stuff, and the info that it's the adapter that gets registered is just nonsense.



Willie


.

jerkface11
August 10, 2013, 08:50 PM
Willie the econo-can suppressor uses a serialized adapter and a standard filter you change yourself.

Willie Sutton
August 10, 2013, 09:01 PM
^^

Uhh.... <sigh>:

The above quote was taken from the Econo Can's manufacturers website (Cadiz Gun Works), so I suggest you check your data. See:

https://cadizgunworks.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=79




With that said, American Specialty Ammunition, which also offers them, "might" do it differently... so check that data too.


I have no dog in the fight, it's just that what I have seen and shot is not exactly what I see described here.





Willie


.

jerkface11
August 10, 2013, 09:05 PM
That's a recent change then.

Willie Sutton
August 10, 2013, 09:09 PM
^^

Would not be surprised that the BATFE finally called "nonsense" to a complete can with innards being called a "wipe"..... :rolleyes:


Willie

.

jerkface11
August 10, 2013, 09:13 PM
But if an oil filter is a complete can then all of us are felons.

Black Butte
August 10, 2013, 09:19 PM
Soon, two-liter soda bottles will be serialized and cost you $200 a pop (pun intended).

Willie Sutton
August 10, 2013, 09:25 PM
"But if an oil filter is a complete can then all of us are felons."

Uhh... perfect teaching opportunity for those who didn't take rhetoric and reasoning in school:


See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum



I'm just telling you the way it is, not the way it might be in fantasy-land.

Now: Ever hear of dual-purpose technology? It's a pretty common topic within the *real* arms business. This is just a tiny itty-bitty case of it. Intent is the key. Have an oil filter in your garage? It's an oil filter. Have an oil filter screwed to your AR-15 with an adapter? You've got a suppressor. In between you can tell it to the BATFE and to the Judge. No different than any of 10,000 other dual-use items. There are a thousand lawyers arguing these things for manufacturers of articles that "might" or "might not" be a felony to export under the ITAR... there's plenty of ambiguity in the world.


Willie

.

Geno
August 10, 2013, 09:28 PM
Black Butte:

Good one! I wonder if the FBI agent will end up getting "canned"? :neener:

Geno

Telekinesis
August 10, 2013, 09:39 PM
The adapter will accept any of (hundreds?) of filter part numbers... but it's the filter (the "tube" is the major component, as per the BATFE) that gets the serial number. That's pretty simple stuff, and the info that it's the adapter that gets registered is just nonsense.


http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb453/Telekinesis228/7272779258_d912bfc769_b_zps0ad0fc48.jpg

If the adapter doesn't get registered, why go through the trouble of including all of the required manufacturer markings including serial number, model, manufacturer, and city/state? I could understand a company name and maybe the model, but not the city/state and SN unless it was required. I have also spoken with a FFL/SOT about this and he recalled that the ATF had approved registered adapters similar to these. Not full cans, just the adapter.

I agree it was a strange ruling for the ATF to require only the adapter to be registered with the main tube of the suppressor being replaceable, and they may very well have reversed their position (wouldn't be the first time it's happened...) but at one point the adapter was considered the registered part and the filter was considered consumable.

Willie Sutton
August 10, 2013, 09:58 PM
^^ Perhaps "At One Time" and "The way these are sold now" are to be two different things...

(see the link on the Cadiz website that I citedwhich is absolutely unambiguous).

Personally, I would prefer to own a registered adapter. That way I could pick and choose the filter I want to use (there are HUNDREDS of models, both closed end and open end). But the fact seems to be that it's just not the way it is (today). My preferences and the real world are sometimes in conflict. This seems to be a case of exactly that.

Nowadays it seems clear that the entire ASSEMBLY of filter AND ADAPTER is a suppressor when sold by Cadiz on a Form 4. You do not get to change out the filter yourself. This is exactly how any other suppressor is sold and handled, BTW,


Willie

.

wildbilll
August 11, 2013, 03:53 PM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-silencers.html

Here is a FAQ that covers this subject.

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