Mosin Nagant Trigger problem


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justice06rr
August 14, 2013, 12:09 AM
I was shooting my M44 Mosin this past weekend and started having Failure to Fire after about 20rounds. I've owned this M44 since last year and routinely shoot it about once a month.

Last weekend during shooting, the Mosin did not fire and we thought the bolt was the issue. I was shooting with 2 friends who also own Mosins so we took the bolt apart and didn't find any issues with that.

I took it home and disassembled it completely, and found out that the leaf sear is not engaging the bolt when firing. During examination of the sear, it broke in 2 pieces as I was handling it! :eek:

I'm not sure if this is a common issue, as I know some Mosins have bad/loose triggers. Luckily I found a trigger set online for $22.

Anyone else experience trigger issues with their Mosin rifle?

(mods pls move if this is in the wrong area, thanks)

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Jim K
August 14, 2013, 12:15 PM
That problem is fairly common; it is one of the weak points of the design.

Glad you got it fixed.

Jim

YZ
August 14, 2013, 12:40 PM
Do you think it's the design or rather the build quality?

Jim K
August 14, 2013, 12:58 PM
I think it is the design. Making a major part its own spring is never a good idea, and the use of a flat spring makes it worse. But making those parts in mass production, possibly under wartime conditions didn't help any in keeping up quality.

Jim

(Yes, I know other designers used parts that were their own springs, JMB's 1911 extractor for example. But it is still not a good idea.)

Jim

YZ
August 14, 2013, 02:34 PM
The fact that the sear leaf broke under examination may indicate metal corrosion or excessive prior use. The M44 is unlikely to have seen combat in Russia, but it may have been exported to the third world, or warehoused in a damp basement for many decades. I don't know what the shelf life is for low grade carbon steel leaf springs.

The Mosin design underwent scrutiny and revisions several times. Had there been such a common problem with the new or recently issued rifles, the Red Army would not have rested until it was fixed. (And soon, or heads would roll) I'd give the design a temporary pass until metal decay has been ruled out.

NCsmitty
August 14, 2013, 07:10 PM
Timney makes a replacement trigger that eliminates most of the issues with stock Mosin triggers. It's not cheap, but you have already spent $22 and it's still a standard trigger.
From others who have installed the Timney, it changes the feel of the rifle in a very positive way. Read the reviews in the link to MidwayUSA.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559350/timney-trigger-mosin-nagant-1-1-2-to-4-lb-steel-matte


NCsmitty

justice06rr
August 14, 2013, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the Replies.

the Timney looks pretty cool, but damn thats worth about half what I paid for the rifle itself :p


yes that leaf sear is very weak and brittle. I do shoot this rifle quite often at least once a month but I'm always careful with my guns. I think the design/material of the sear itself should be a lot stronger since its a often used part. I did not expect it to snap just that easily.

lathedog
August 14, 2013, 09:27 PM
I just put a Timney on one of my Mosins, and it is so good it blew my mind. I also really like the Rem 700 style trigger blocking safety, which makes it easy to put the rifle on "safe" without having to run the cocking knob.

The downside is that there is a lot of wood to be removed to allow the gun to go back into the stock with the new trigger. A lot. You must also chisel out a slot for the safety lever. I can not imagine putting one in without a mill. I used a 1/4" end mill and also did a lot of chisel work.

I had not read the reviews on MidwayUSA, but just went and did that (I bought mine from EA Brown). I have to laugh at the reviews that gush about how easy it is to install. Yeah. Super easy if you own a milling machine and have already worked out a method for clamping your stock without putting dents in it. It is easy to install on the action; that much is true.

Don't let the Timney scare you but also don't buy one thinking it is a drop fit into the stock.

YZ
August 14, 2013, 09:34 PM
Justice
The Mosin rifle is an anomaly. A 70+ year old combat rifle, at least 60 years out of production, in a superb condition (as many M44 are) should have been collectible and expensive. It is unbelievably cheap because of its epic production numbers. An upgrade like the Timney trigger seems expensive in comparison, but only because the rifle is undervalued, not because it's junk.
BTW most of us have encountered tired leaf or coil springs in high quality handguns. Those parts are disposable, even though they don't break. Replacing the sear in a Mosin makes perfect sense.

Jim K
August 15, 2013, 04:00 PM
No one thinks the M-N is junk, but it could have been better; even a longer bold handle would have been a considerable improvement. Obviously, it served well but it continued through WWII not because it was considered the best but because the Russians had neither the time nor the resources to adopt and produce a better rifle. The SVT rifles were, at best, a good first step toward a modern rifle, but there were not enough of them and so, like the Nagant revolvers, they had to soldier on.

Jim

YZ
August 15, 2013, 06:33 PM
The Soviet government Jim had enormous resources from plundering its own population. It had two decades of secure borders until WW2. Much larger and more expensive projects were accomplished in those years than a new infantry rifle. The reason the Mosin was allowed to become obsolete while in service, was the Soviet military doctrine. It required sturdy, reliable, but in no way sophisticated small weapons. They were dispensable just like the soldiers who carried them.
Now, a longer bolt handle? For what? It sticks out enough to raise the shooters hand over the foxhole to attract enemy fire. In the 20's-30's most armies were still preparing to fight their last war, in the trenches.

justice06rr
August 16, 2013, 04:30 AM
Justice
The Mosin rifle is an anomaly. A 70+ year old combat rifle, at least 60 years out of production, in a superb condition (as many M44 are) should have been collectible and expensive. It is unbelievably cheap because of its epic production numbers. An upgrade like the Timney trigger seems expensive in comparison, but only because the rifle is undervalued, not because it's junk.
BTW most of us have encountered tired leaf or coil springs in high quality handguns. Those parts are disposable, even though they don't break. Replacing the sear in a Mosin makes perfect sense.

thanks for the comment YZ. the M44 is definitely a robust (and should've been a collectible) rifle. Too bad the one I have is not pristine and I just like shooting it too much! Kinda hard to find one now that is in close to perfect shape for collecting purposes.

but in any case, I buy guns to shoot and not just to collect. So the Mosin fits this bill very well.

ldlfh7
August 22, 2013, 12:56 PM
I would suggest installing a new trigger assembly. It is well worth the money and time spent on it. Check out midwayusa. I replaced a mosin and mauser trigger and my only regret was not doing it sooner.

Jim K
August 28, 2013, 10:53 PM
Was it lack of resources or a decision to allocate resources to projects other than the infantry rifle? They did produce the SVT rifles, but had to consider production in quantities greater than those required by other nations.

As to the idea that they wouldn't lengthen the bolt handle because of experience in the trenches, that is unlikely. There were few trenches on the East Front in WWI and Russian military doctrine did not encourage "digging in", a concept that the western Europeans actually got in part from intensive studies of the American Civil War at their staff colleges.

Jim

BigDeesul
August 28, 2013, 10:57 PM
I was shooting my M44 Mosin this past weekend and started having Failure to Fire after about 20rounds. I've owned this M44 since last year and routinely shoot it about once a month.

Last weekend during shooting, the Mosin did not fire and we thought the bolt was the issue. I was shooting with 2 friends who also own Mosins so we took the bolt apart and didn't find any issues with that.

I took it home and disassembled it completely, and found out that the leaf sear is not engaging the bolt when firing. During examination of the sear, it broke in 2 pieces as I was handling it! :eek:

I'm not sure if this is a common issue, as I know some Mosins have bad/loose triggers. Luckily I found a trigger set online for $22.

Anyone else experience trigger issues with their Mosin rifle?

(mods pls move if this is in the wrong area, thanks)

Yep, its gritty and ****ty. Other than that, no problems!

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

bainter1212
August 28, 2013, 11:12 PM
Replacement sears are cheap. I broke one, and ordered 4 of them for the heck of it. Spare parts are always agood thing.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mosin Nagant Trigger problem" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!