Beretta or Sig


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wilson
August 16, 2013, 11:29 PM
Ive been looking at the Beretta 96A1. The Sigs have caught my eye. Im undecided now. Are the Sigs really that much better. The 226 looks good. I currentyl . shoot a Ruger P 90, its been a very good gun. I just feel like upgrading , assuming thats upgrading. my Ruger has always worked. . Any advice would be helpful.

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tarosean
August 16, 2013, 11:35 PM
I prefer the Beretta due to its lower bore axis. However a lot of people like Sig. Both are extremely reliable guns.

You simply cannot go wrong with either period... Pick the one that feels the best to you..

hAkron
August 16, 2013, 11:42 PM
The 96 is a .40 cal version of the 9mm 92FS. The P226 is available in 9mm, 40, 357 Sig, and .22LR. The 226 is also available in a plethora of variations. The most practical in my opinion are the used W. German made 9mm models.

2wheels
August 16, 2013, 11:45 PM
Different styles you could say. Both Sigs and Berettas are normally DA/SA, but I like the setup of the Sig a LOT more.

The decocker is not a safety, and it's out of the way rather than on the slide.

However, Berettas control setup is closer to what you're already used to.

9mmepiphany
August 16, 2013, 11:53 PM
I actually have direct long term experience with those guns. Here is what I found.

More than anything else, it is a matter of how the gun fits your hand. My hands aren't really that big, but I have long fingers and can hold both guns very comfortably. I can reach both triggers easily and both guns were reliable.

My Beretta 96 was a personally owned gun that I carried on duty. It was the most accurate .40 I've ever shot (compared to a SIG 226/229, Glock 22, CZ, H&K USP) and had very soft recoil. It's huge ejection port and history of working with less recoil made me very comfortable about how reliable it was and how easy jams would be to clear. The DA trigger pull was smoother than that of the SIGs

My department issued the SIG 226 and 229, in 9mm and .40, to officers. I tried each, in .40, for about 6 months before going back to the Beretta. The SIGs felt a bit better in my hand, thinner, but it didn't make them any faster to get into action or any more accurate for the first shot. What I didn't like as much was that the action always felt more clunky as it was cycling as they were more tightly sprung than the Beretta, which felt smooth as glass.

I prefer the SIG in 9mm, but would choose the Beretta in .40.

The Ruger P90 is an outstanding gun...likely Rugers best CF semi-auto...and originally designed to contain the 10mm.{the forgoing phrase has been amended in post #27} However, both the Beretta and the SIG would be a major step up in .40...mostly based on quality of workmanship, but certainly based on trigger feel

TennJed
August 16, 2013, 11:59 PM
S&W 5906 was my first semi auto. A Ruger P95 was my second. I prefer a DA/SA with a decocker and a safety. I prefer it to be on the slide. That is what I cut my teeth on and it is natural feeling to me. My primary SD gun is a Beretta PX4. I wish more guns came with that set up.

Some people don't like them. It is just a personal preference. In my case I happened to start out shooting that way. No style is wrong and no style is better than the other. Pick which one you like the best

REDMASTA
August 17, 2013, 12:40 AM
My brother owns a 96 and after shooting it on a few occasions I still prefer my p226 in .40. In 9mm it's fairly even for me between the 92 and 226, but I would choose a cz75/sp01 over both as it just fits in my average sized hands more comfortably.

Blue Brick
August 17, 2013, 01:06 AM
40 S&W?? Sig. Or Ruger P91.

4v50 Gary
August 17, 2013, 01:07 AM
Look at the # of parts per gun and then the caliber. I can't justify the size of a 96 for the bullet and I'd go with Sig.

TestPilot
August 17, 2013, 02:10 AM
Ergonomics on grip is subjective.

I like the SIG triggr better because M9 trigger had more resistance increase towards the end and it also had more over travel. I guess it is natural consequence of the trigger design. It has been a while since I have looked inside either of them, but if I recall correctly, SIG trigger actuates the AFPB by the trigger bar sliding under the AFPB plunger and Beretta trigger does it by the trigger actuating a lever to push the plunger up.Not that it makes Beretta triger particularly bad, but the resistance increase towards the end of the pull was noticeable.

I also do not want a manual firing inhibitor that needs to be operated separate from trigger pull motion, especially when the lever for it is on the slide.

Nitron finish is more durable and tough than Bruniton judging from my experience.

The more squared shaped SIG slide was easier to grasp for me.

To be technical, the open top slide does not aid in ejection, but rather have less probably of obstructing the path of ejection. While it does make it better, I do not find it to be significant since most failure to eject I have seen is between the breech face and the hood of the barrel.

The portion of the slide that is in front of the rear end of the barrel hood of a closed slide design is for the most part irrelevant in regards to better ejection. Since the ejection is supposed to be towards the right side, if the left side wall of the slide is interfering with ejection, you have something else to worry about than the slide not being open.

The open top design do make contaminant enter easier. That does not always mean it is going to be a problem,since it can work dirty. Ingress of regular amount of dust is not much of a problem. But, it can be a problen if the gun is immersed in things like sand.
For these and some other reasoms that I may have forgot I find SIG to be better for my choice.

TennJed
August 17, 2013, 02:49 AM
My brother owns a 96 and after shooting it on a few occasions I still prefer my p226 in .40. In 9mm it's fairly even for me between the 92 and 226, but I would choose a cz75/sp01 over both as it just fits in my average sized hands more comfortably.

I would love a cz75 with a beretta style slide mounted decocker/safety

KYamateur
August 17, 2013, 03:17 AM
I have not owned a Beretta 96, but I would still choose the beretta. Despite nay-sayers, the Beretta 92/96 models are some of the most accurate and reliable guns on the market. The are large but so are the P226 guns. I have a stainless Beretta 92 and a Black M9 and would never get rid of either. I had a sigp220 and sold it. Don't get me wrong, the Sigs are work horses, but to me they do not grip as well, and nothing beats the looks of a Beretta 92/96 model. The sig 220 and 226 seem to have a chunky grip. The beretta grips are also large, but for me I can handle them better. Either gun will serve your purposes but everyone should have a beretta in their collection. Behind the 1911, it is the most recognizable semi-auto gun in American history.

bannockburn
August 17, 2013, 06:20 AM
I prefer the SIG P-226 mainly because it fits my hand size (small), better than the comparable Beretta and I like the design ergonomics of the SIG as well.

ku4hx
August 17, 2013, 06:49 AM
The Ruger P90 is an outstanding gun...likely Rugers best CF semi-auto...and originally designed to contain the 10mm.
From what I've been able to determine, including conversations with Ruger, the P90 10mm design is an internet myth. Check out coffeepot's and lowegan's comments here: http://rugerforum.net/ruger-pistols/8570-little-p-90-history.html

History is a funny thing; I'd be very interested in your comments on why you believe the P90 was originally designed for the 10mm

wilson
August 17, 2013, 07:30 AM
Thanks for the help guys. Those are all good reasons. Im going to look at both of again today.

Pilot
August 17, 2013, 07:46 AM
It does have a lot to do with how they fit your hand. Both are excellent pistols, that are accurate, and reliable.

I sold my Sig P228 because I just didn't like the control position, and ergos, but it was a reliable and reasonably accurate pistol. I thought the trigger was decent, but a bit spongy.

I had avoided the Beretta 92 because I don't like slide mounted safeties, but after shooting a friends I had to have one. Now, along with my CZ-75 series pistols it is one of my favorites shooters.

JTQ
August 17, 2013, 09:13 AM
2wheels wrote,
Berettas control setup is closer to what you're already used to.
TennJed wrote,
S&W 5906 was my first semi auto. A Ruger P95 was my second. I prefer a DA/SA with a decocker and a safety. I prefer it to be on the slide. That is what I cut my teeth on and it is natural feeling to me.
I agree, my experiences are similar. My early semi-auto experiences were with S&W autos. The Beretta controls seem more "natural" to me.

However, most of my shooting in recent years is with the 1911 and my right thumb wants to ride the SIG's decocker. I do think a decocker only, like SIG employs (or the Beretta 92/96 G model) rather than a safety/decocker as the 96A1 does seem like a better idea.

allaroundhunter
August 17, 2013, 09:29 AM
For me the Beretta just seems like too much gun for the caliber. The grip feels much bigger than it needs to be, and as a result it doesn't fit my hands as well. The Sig felt like a much softer shooter, and I like the Sigs trigger (in both DA and SA) much better.

But perhaps the biggest reason that I dislike the Beretta? That stupidly designed location for the safety/decocker... And how it is completely inverse in terms of how to use it compared to most any other gun.

JTQ
August 17, 2013, 09:50 AM
allaroundhunter wrote,
That stupidly designed location for the safety/decocker... And how it is completely inverse in terms of how to use it compared to most any other gun.
I've got to admit I was kind of waiting on this one, and I'm surprised it took so long to show up.

The Beretta safety/decocker is exactly the same as Walther P38 developed in the 1930's, the millions of S&W Traditional Double Action (TDA) autos that have been produced since the 1950's, all the Ruger P-Series autos that have been made over the years, and of course the long line of Beretta 92/96 pistols made. I'm sure there are others that have followed this design, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. So I'd say there are lots of other guns that operated exactly the same.

The SIG on the other hand, while not knocking the design or the manufacture of that design, is I believe, a unique animal. Is there any other pistol on the market that puts their decocker where SIG does. SIG's design, is the one that "...is completely inverse in terms of how to use it compared to most any other gun".

AKElroy
August 17, 2013, 10:14 AM
This one is close, but I prefer the sig. For EDC, the Beretta is wider and longer, but also not as tall from the bottom of the grip to the top of the slide. This makes finding a cant forward angle you like a little easier.

The sig is thinner and shorter over all, but does have a high bore axis, with a grip that hangs low, generally requiring a slightly more forward belt placement to remain concealed.

For me, I shoot the sig better, I love the location of the controls, particularly the de-cocker location, and I believe sig's siglites are the best night sights on the market.

Another consideration is capacity with a flush mag; my 226 MK25 9mm runs flush 18 round MecGar mags, with MecGar also being the factory mag for this weapon.

As for build quality, probably a toss up with sig getting the nod for buttery smoothness IMO. and as mentioned, the narrower profile seams to fit more hands, certainly does mine.

Pilot
August 17, 2013, 10:36 AM
I've got to admit I was kind of waiting on this one, and I'm surprised it took so long to show up.

The Beretta safety/decocker is exactly the same as Walther P38 developed in the 1930's, the millions of S&W Traditional Double Action (TDA) autos that have been produced since the 1950's, all the Ruger P-Series autos that have been made over the years, and of course the long line of Beretta 92/96 pistols made. I'm sure there are others that have followed this design, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. So I'd say there are lots of other guns that operated exactly the same.

The SIG on the other hand, while not knocking the design or the manufacture of that design, is I believe, a unique animal. Is there any other pistol on the market that puts their decocker where SIG does. SIG's design, is the one that "...is completely inverse in terms of how to use it compared to most any other gun".
As I said in my previous post that I avoided the Beretta 92 for 25 years due to the position of the safety. I finally figured out you can either not use the safety at all or just use it as a decocker. I don't carry the 92, but if I did it would be safety off. Not needed in a DA/SA pistol. I agree on the Sig's control positions. Very counter intuitive, and different from ALL my other pistols. It is fine if that is all you carry, and shoot.

AKElroy
August 17, 2013, 11:03 AM
A couple more points that may not matter,but the beretta gives you a full 5" of tube, which not only gives a little more sight radius, slightly more velocity, but also makes it far more pretty IMO. if looks are important, the beretta wins hands down IMO.

For the sig, the much less expensive sig 2022 is much lighter, has identical control location to the 226, and can be had for less than $400. I have both the 2022 and the 226, and they are close in regard to actual performance. I find the 2022 easier to carry with certain clothing choices, and I like having the same training platform in my two primary EDC's. I do not know of a lighter, more compact beretta that would serve the same purpose for alternative carry with controls identical to its bigger brother.

TestPilot
August 17, 2013, 11:09 AM
As I said in my previous post that I avoided the Beretta 92 for 25 years due to the position of the safety. I finally figured out you can either not use the safety at all or just use it as a decocker.

Pilot,

With the correct holster, that would nearly eliminate the need for having to actuate the lever upon draw.

However, that still leaves some problems: Unintended accidental lever movement after draw. That issue mostly come up during reload or malfunction manipulations where the user would unintentionally push down the lever while manipulating the slide.
It can also happen during events like a physical struggle with an opponent.

If I was into M92 series, my choice would be either M92G or M92D. That's the only way to eliminate the problem as a whole. Under marketing of M92G and M92D is Berettas biggest mistake regarding the model.

JTQ
August 17, 2013, 11:15 AM
Pilot wrote,
I finally figured out you can either not use the safety at all or just use it as a decocker. I don't carry the 92, but if I did it would be safety off. Not needed in a DA/SA pistol.
I agree. I think the vast majority (everybody?) of citizen users would simply employ the safety/decocker as a decocker only. I do understand there have been some law enforcement and military organizations that required the Beretta to be carried with the safety engaged.

Pilot
August 17, 2013, 11:15 AM
Testpilot,

Totally agree. I think the 92G with its decocker only levers is the best of both worlds. Not a big fan of DAO, so I would prefer that over the 92D. I don't know why Beretta didn't market the G more.

9mmepiphany
August 17, 2013, 11:29 AM
History is a funny thing; I'd be very interested in your comments on why you believe the P90 was originally designed for the 10mm
Thank you for the link. My information came for the same source, the writings of Massad Ayoob. While I don't always agree with Mas...I don't think he expects everyone to agree with him...I've usually found that his written articles are well researched. He seemed to be a regular at the Ruger factory and that would certainly lend creditability to the article.

Obviously there is a large difference between "designed for" and "design studies for feasibility/conversion"; although I guess it went far enough for them to produce barrels and magazines...I almost wonder if a shop model was assembled and maybe "walked" out of the factory.

Having read the link and seeing the creditability of the information, I'll refrain for perpetuating the urban legend

wilson
August 17, 2013, 12:55 PM
I've been looking at both, I've cycled them , I was just looking for input from others.

Sheepdog1968
August 17, 2013, 01:59 PM
Both are quality firearms that should be reliable. What you need to do is shoot both and see what feels better to you. If you like one substantially more than the other after shooting it then buy that one. For all practical purposes, the brand and caliber are less important that how it fits you and feels.

Sheepdog1968
August 17, 2013, 02:02 PM
I know one person who likes Sigs, another Beretta, another Glocks, another M&P, another, the XDs. These are all good friends so we have our typical gun chats. It mostly comes down to how well it fits them and how well they shoot their favorite brand.

VVelox
August 17, 2013, 02:38 PM
You may want to consider looking into the Taurus 100, which is their modified clone of the Beretta 96. It places the safety/decocker in the same place as a 1911. It feels great and easy to use by thumb regardless of what hand it is held in.

I recently got the 92 clone they make and absolutely love it.

http://i.imgur.com/3V6s84ah.jpg

golden
August 17, 2013, 06:32 PM
I carried both and like both. You cannot go wrong with either a BERETTA 96 or SIG 226. I found the BERETTA more accurate due to a better trigger on the 96D Brigadiers we were issued.
My SIG 226 and 229 had nice triggers, but the BERETTA had a smoother double action.

Both are bet your life reliable and easy to field strip.

I would try both guns with the same ammo that you will carry and choose the more accurate shooter. You can probably rent both at a range.

By the way, I had a RUGER P-90 and found it just as reliable. The major reason for parting with it was the poor ergonomics. It just never felt as good in my hand as the BERETTA or SIG which are my favorite brands of handguns.

good luck,

Jim

460Kodiak
August 18, 2013, 10:56 AM
Man do I wish I could afford one of these.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=360419792

Torian
August 18, 2013, 11:09 AM
In my opinion, there is no comparison between the two. I've carried the Beretta for the last five years as a duty weapon in two combat zones. I would gladly exchange it for a Hi Power, 1911, or better yet...anything SIG.

Our Special Forces guys, to including any Navy Seals they were working with, usually carried either HKs or Sigs. You'd occasionally see some top notch 1911 .45s...but you'd never see a Beretta among them for a reason.

The Beretta is seen a lot in Hollywood (think lethal weapon) and is a familiar platform for many. For those of us who are forced to use it outside a range environment, you probably won't find nearly as many fans of the system. The action get fouled very quickly due to its design, and when it does, the gun turns to crap.

Keep in mind, all of the above is a personal opinion. If your life experiences differ from mine, you may end up loving the gun. If you are looking for a weapon you can enjoy at the range and for CHL, then it may work for you. My very first handgun I ever purchased was a 9mm Brigadier, and I sold it almost immediately after finding a NIB FN HP.

tarosean
August 18, 2013, 02:43 PM
The SIGs have more/better sight choices.

The A1's that the OP is considering have dovetailed front and rear sights. So choices are pretty much wide open...

wilson
August 18, 2013, 06:00 PM
I got the Beretta. ty for all the advice though.

9mmepiphany
August 18, 2013, 09:38 PM
With that decision, I think we can close this thread.

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