Minority Living with AntiGun Majority


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Praxidike
August 20, 2013, 09:29 PM
All my family is antigun, and so is my fiancee. I have to hide the fact that I own firearms from my family, and my fiance says she "hates guns" and is "scared of them." They see a gun and think the only possible outcome would be a child killing themselves or someone else and if there was ever a situation where they would need it, they wouldn't have access because of an infinite amount of retarded rationale... Like for example, my fiance says that when we live together, she doesn't want it in our house. That even if she was alone and someone broke in, she wouldn't have time to wake up, get to the safe, and grab the firearm anyway. I then asked her if she would just lay their and be raped, but she replied that she'd have no other choice but to try and "fight the attacker off"...

Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap? Are 99% of the people in your life against firearms, and you feel that you constantly have to hide, argue, and defend your rights to your loved ones? If so, how do you deal with it?

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sota
August 20, 2013, 09:31 PM
I think your biggest problem right now is you're about to marry a woman who HATES something you LOVE.

Other than that, I got no useful advice for you.

Arkansas Paul
August 20, 2013, 09:34 PM
Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap?

Nope, and I wouldn't.

Like for example, my fiance says that when we live together, she doesn't want it in our house.

Family you can't choose. Fiances you can. If you marry her knowing her feelings about guns, you have no one to blame but yourself when you don't have them. You have to decide what's more important to you.

I won't go into what I would do, and hopefully others won't either, because that tends to get threads locked quickly.

tominct
August 20, 2013, 09:36 PM
Bad situation. Unless you can convert her, you'll probably have to give up either the guns or her. What will you do when (not if) she issues her ultimatum?

orionengnr
August 20, 2013, 09:42 PM
Do a search. There are plenty of threads on this subject.

Life is hard enough as it is.

Marriage is hard, too, even if you start out with someone who shares your fundamental outlook on life.

Choose someone who is very different, and you choose an infinitely harder life for yourself.

The good news is...you are young, and there is a whole world of potential partners.

I wish you luck, my friend...you will need lots of it. And luck does not favor the unprepared.

strambo
August 20, 2013, 09:50 PM
Your stuck w/ family...but headed for a world of pain with the fiance. I wouldn't have had that problem, I CC'd back in college even, any anti I accidentally dated would have split.

I'd make a solid effort to convert her, take her shooting a .22, teach her firearm safety, prepare some good arguments. If that fails, your choices are to completely give in or leave. How important is firearms ownership to you vs. being w/ her?

FrostyHL
August 20, 2013, 09:56 PM
My family is all anti-gun as well. My mother is your typical NY liberal and also sees guns as nothing but killing machines. I blame this in part due to the fact she has been a nurse for over 35 years. She has seen so many people hurt that she has turned into a protectionist. I choose not to let her know about my firearm ownership, although I think she has a pretty good idea after seeing my 44 gun safe in the house.

On the plus side though my wife is completely pro-2a. Once she shot my AR she was hooked, same thing with my sister! Perhaps try getting your fiance out there shooting. From my experiences women end up loving it.

Sam1911
August 20, 2013, 09:59 PM
You can't choose who raised you. You can't choose who your natural family are. As you mature you do get a few brief moments where you may set out the circumstances under which you will live your own life. Standing up for yourself and becoming your own man doesn't require you to argue with anyone or convince anyone of anything. It only requires that you 1) decide and 2) proceed to live under your principles, not theirs.

You may find that after you've lived part of your lifetime as a responsible and peaceable man your example may have swayed your family's opinion far more than any argument or confrontation ever could have. But for that to happen, you have to get out and live the life you want to live.

Now, part of growing up and becoming a man also means making a firm (but gentle and earnest) stand with the loved one you've invited to share your life with you. You are not a pet, nor a subject. You are a partner. And if the terms of your relationship are not able to accommodate things you hold dear, then you need to be able to offer her the chance to not be bound to someone she'll have to subjugate in order to feel comfortable. If that's the relationship you build now, it will be very unhappy and, at best, short.

jstein650
August 20, 2013, 09:59 PM
I agree with getting her out to the range. If she is at all 'reasonable' she should be amenable to at least that, and I would make that non-negotiable. Most people are converted to an extent just by getting familiar with the fun side of shooting.

buckhorn_cortez
August 20, 2013, 10:16 PM
Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap?

Not me. My wife owns 8 guns and competes in action pistol. You only get to live your life one time. I'd suggest carefully evaluating all of your decisions to make sure you live it the way you want to. If you have one point of contention that severe with a fiancé - I will guarantee there will be more. The solution to the problem of disagreements after you're married can be quite expensive...

Sam1911
August 20, 2013, 10:20 PM
Hmmm, reminds me of someone who once said -- ask yourself what things you'll want to find in your second wife -- and marry her instead. You may never get the chance to meet her later on and it will be a painful and costly road to get you there if you ever do.

hso
August 20, 2013, 10:33 PM
Nope, and everyone would be better off if they didn't hide their true feelings, opinions, beliefs.

dogrunner
August 20, 2013, 10:33 PM
Or to quote a very good (and ultra experienced in the field) friend........."I ain't gettin' married again, I'll just find someone I hate and sign a house over to 'em"!

jim243
August 20, 2013, 10:34 PM
Sam's right about that!!!

Stop kidding yourself and find someone that shares your interests (all of them.)

Jim

Praxidike
August 20, 2013, 10:36 PM
My family is all anti-gun as well. My mother is your typical NY liberal and also sees guns as nothing but killing machines. I blame this in part due to the fact she has been a nurse for over 35 years. She has seen so many people hurt that she has turned into a protectionist. I choose not to let her know about my firearm ownership, although I think she has a pretty good idea after seeing my 44 gun safe in the house.

On the plus side though my wife is completely pro-2a. Once she shot my AR she was hooked, same thing with my sister! Perhaps try getting your fiance out there shooting. From my experiences women end up loving it.
LOL mine too man. All my family are New York Liberals... I figured there would be more who were in my situation, but I guess not. I'm not too worried about the fiance, or the fam. It's more of an annoyance than anything. It just gets old having to hide the crap, explain myself, and not dealing with all the drama... Because most of you have not had to deal with it, it's like being an Atheist in living in a deeply religious town with deeply religious family...

Caliper_RWVA
August 20, 2013, 11:43 PM
Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap? Are 99% of the people in your life against firearms, and you feel that you constantly have to hide, argue, and defend your rights to your loved ones? If so, how do you deal with it?

Nope. Can't help you with advice to deal with it, except to say that you don't have to. Not saying the only solution is to move and/or find a new mate, but have you considered it? There are plenty of great states in this country where the majority are pro-gun, or at least not-anti. I'm in the process of organizing a range outing for my group at work and about half my coworkers have guns to bring. I don't know how large a part of your life firearms are, but it sounds like you will be giving up something that is important to you if you continue on this path. Think hard, my friend, but be sure to talk to your fiance - a lot.

Hurryin' Hoosier
August 20, 2013, 11:47 PM
Break the engagement and put yourself up for adoption. :D

Manny
August 20, 2013, 11:52 PM
LOL mine too man. All my family are New York Liberals... I figured there would be more who were in my situation, but I guess not. I'm not too worried about the fiance, or the fam. It's more of an annoyance than anything. It just gets old having to hide the crap, explain myself, and not dealing with all the drama... Because most of you have not had to deal with it, it's like being an Atheist in living in a deeply religious town with deeply religious family...
I'm all for the "gray man" mode of low profile living, but anytime you have to lie or hide anything truly important in your life than something isn't right. I believe over time it will be a big deal and that you're only fooling yourself to believe otherwise.

BLB68
August 21, 2013, 12:04 AM
If your fiance isn't going to accept everything about you, then you need to get a new fiance.

RetiredUSNChief
August 21, 2013, 12:13 AM
Hmmm...

Lots of advice to essentially give the fiancé the boot. However, I've a wee bit different approach.

Dating, even at the fiancé level, is about two people doing things together, enjoying each other's company, and LEARNING about each other. And, contrary to what appears to be popular belief among many (even older people), just because you're dating someone DOESN'T mean that person HAS to be "the one and only".

In fact, part of the learning about each other aspect of dating is learning whether or not the relationship has the capacity to become a lifetime commitment. There is absolutely NO dishonor for either person to break off the relationship if they come to the conclusion that the relationship really shouldn't go any further...regardless of what the other person feels about it.

That said, your decision in this matter is your own to make. But I would put to you that this having to "hide the fact that I own firearms from my family" shows a character flaw that you, as a responsible adult, need to work on. Your life is your own and, as Sam1911 said, you need to live it as if it's your own...not somebody else's.

You will have to break this issue with guns to your fiancé and discuss it. The issues go deeper than "me or the guns", which may be all that she sees or ever will see. If you cannot get past that to the core values YOU have and the level of maturity and responsibility YOU should be living accordingly...then I submit to you that you'll never get past any other superficial issue to these matters later on.

I also strongly suspect that there are other issues which the two of you either are, or will have but haven't discovered, which are hot-beds between you. You need to work to figure these things out, understand your own core values with respect to them, get a handle on HER core values, and decide how this fits into a continuing relationship.

The relationship status shouldn't be determined solely over gun ownership...it should be determined over core values. Core values are deeply ingrained in who we are, established and rooted in our earliest upbringing, education, beliefs, and experiences. They do NOT change easily, nor quickly...and often require years to do so when the attempt is made.

Salmoneye
August 21, 2013, 08:15 AM
Two of 'my' favorite guns technically belong to The Wife, so I can not imagine your situation OP...

The only thing I can imagine is that if it were me (and it aint), I'd run...

Good luck...

Tamren
August 21, 2013, 08:37 AM
My mom has similar anti-gun feelings, but she's willing to accept my gun ownership and pro-self defense views. We've even had some calm discussions about our opposing philosophies.

When we first started dating, my wife was extremely anti-gun. She didn't even want me to keep an unloaded .22 pistol in our apartment. Eventually, with patience, logic, and not forcing the issue, she came around. I was enrolled at CST at the time, and I pointed out that I was going to be around guns the rest of my life and it would be a good idea if she at least knew how to clear a loaded firearm safely if necessary. She eventually decided to go out shooting with me on her own, and loved shooting the same little .22 from above. Now she's very pro-gun, and pro-self defense.

I wouldn't advice breaking up or not breaking up, it depends on how volatile an issue it is between you. I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption she's your fiancee for a good reason, whether she likes guns or not :p

Midwest
August 21, 2013, 08:57 AM
Relationships should be based on mutual respect (among other things). She doesn't have to like or share your enthusiasm for firearms...but she should respect your interests. If she cannot even do that, you will face 'difficulties' down the road.

You can't change your family or their views (although you can try), it is what it is. But to spend the rest of your life with someone who 'hates' your interests and doesn't respect or tolerate them is something that needs to be addressed now. Is there anything else she 'hates' besides firearms? (Don't answer that here, but list them on paper and start adding them up - if applicable ). Whatever the case, let the facts (not emotions) be your guide. Take the blinders off and look at things now, then 5 years, 10 years and 25 years from now. What do you see? (Don't answer that here, just write it down privately.)

Good Luck

javjacob
August 21, 2013, 09:05 AM
you need to break it off with the fiancé. trust me on that one! you will thank us and yourself later on. marriage is hard enough as it is... trust me I know first hand. If you are on opposite sides on something you love its going to be hard now but will only get worse... and believe me it will get worse. You will end up in a nightmare you cant wake up from.

valnar
August 21, 2013, 09:17 AM
Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap?

I ended up getting a divorce for a variety of reasons, and this was one of them. My Ex was unreasonable too. Don't do it.

Anti's are usually very passionate about their resolve. It's not like your hobby is playing golf.

ironworkerwill
August 21, 2013, 09:21 AM
It seems ever' one seems to want you to " cut and run". I want you to do whats good for YOU! Cause, if you don't no one else will.

Relationships should be based on mutual respect (among other things). She doesn't have to like or share your enthusiasm for firearms...but she should respect your interests. If she cannot even do that, you will face 'difficulties' down the road.
Agreed,100%

Shanghai McCoy
August 21, 2013, 09:41 AM
Hmmm, reminds me of someone who once said -- ask yourself what things you'll want to find in your second wife -- and marry her instead. You may never get the chance to meet her later on and it will be a painful and costly road to get you there if you ever do.
Yep, BT DT...
I taught my current wife how to shoot . Her favorite, other than her 50 cal flintlock rifle, is a Model 27 .357 mag.
She also lets me smoke cigars...:D
Sometimes she even shares her single malt scotch with me.:)

wally
August 21, 2013, 10:10 AM
Much cheaper to cut your losses now and find someone who shares your values than to end up in divorce court!

Try converting her with a few range trips and if that doesn't work or makes things worse, cut your losses now!


Relationships are difficult enough, took me three tries to get it right and all were gun owners before we married.

mdauben
August 21, 2013, 10:14 AM
This is a tough one, and an issue that I don't think anyone else to really tell you what to do.

Its easy enough for someone to say "give her the broom" but I hesitate to suggest something like this over the issue of gun ownership alone. As an individual with an ex-wife, though, I see this as possibly representing a bigger issue. You two are not even married yet, and she is already dictating how you will live your life. In my experience marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship. If you have to give up or hide things about yourself that give you enjoyment or that you think are important, eventually its going to lead to resentment. Think long and hard about your current relationship with your fiance and if you think you can live with that relationship for the next 50-60 years of your life.

My ex tried to be a dictator in our marriage and there were plenty of signs of that even before our wedding which in my inexperience and ignorance I ignored. I'm an easy going guy who tries to avoid conflict where I can, but eventually the resentment led to fighting and our eventual divorce.

Hanzo581
August 21, 2013, 10:18 AM
Never hide what you believe in. Never change a core belief to placate someone for you will one day resent it and all it tells them is they can change you and they have a precedent to prove that.

Give her an ultimatum. Either she accepts you and your guns or you should go your separate ways. It may seem trivial over guns, but that is only the beginning. That said, you also have to accept everything about her if you expect the same from her.

MedWheeler
August 21, 2013, 10:26 AM
You wrote about her feelings:

That even if she was alone and someone broke in, she wouldn't have time to wake up, get to the safe, and grab the firearm anyway.

Okay, so defensive firearm use is out for her. Whatever, right? But, would she be willing to consider having that sort of setup (guns in a readily-acessible safe) for you?

Remeber that, as she and you try to have a discussion about this (and you should), that a discussion is not the same thing as a lecture. Make sure that she understands this as well.

Don't use fear (news accounts of violent-crime victims) to try to sway her; that rarely works. An occasional pointing out of a news account, when it happens, of a successful DGU may even be more effective, but not in the actual discussion of the topic.

My mom was a liberal raised in Massachussetts. Since 09/11/2001, she has made a rapid shift to the other side. I was still living with her when I was sworn in as a LEO, and she begrudgingly accepted what comes with that. I've been out of that line of work for a long time, now, and a couple of years back, she expressed a little surprise during a phone conversation when I happened to say something about "going shooting" or something. She apparently had assumed that I didn't have any guns anymore, maybe because so much time had gone by and I was now the father of a small child.

Earlier this year, she was visiting and was telling me about the movie "2016", which I have not yet seen. As she was beginning, I asked her if it was the type that "would make me wanna go out and buy more guns" and she replied "oh, definitely." So, it seems as she has relaxed her gun-shyness quite a bit.

Arkansas Paul
August 21, 2013, 10:37 AM
Its easy enough for someone to say "give her the broom" but I hesitate to suggest something like this over the issue of gun ownership alone.

On the contrary, the issue of gun ownership is much more important than most other things. As one poster above said, it's not like the hobby is playing golf. It's firearms. The lack of one greatly reduces your ability to protect yourself and your loved ones. It deserves special consideration above other interests. If she can't deal with your stamp collection that's one thing. If she can't understand the need to protect your household, that is something else entirely.

jbrown50
August 21, 2013, 12:42 PM
It seems ever' one seems to want you to " cut and run". I want you to do whats good for YOU! Cause, if you don't no one else will.


Quote:
Relationships should be based on mutual respect (among other things). She doesn't have to like or share your enthusiasm for firearms...but she should respect your interests. If she cannot even do that, you will face 'difficulties' down the road.

Agreed,100%


I'll 3rd that.

My wife gave me an ultimatum once about my guns after we got married. It lasted for about a minute. I asked her "you do realize that you're not the only one who can issue ultimatums, right?"

As long as you're not doing anything illegal, immoral, unethical, dangerous or neglecting your spousal responsibilities it shouldn't matter what hobby you enjoy. As long as you're taking care of business there's nothing that she can do to you except walk out that door.

My wife and I have been together for almost 27 years and married for the last 22 of those years. I've taken her shooting and we've taken a few formal firearms training courses together. She's even claimed her own personal gun although I still have to coax her to train with it.

Every once in a while she still snears at me and my guns but she's my sweetheart and I give her a lot of leway and she knows it's only fair that she does the same for me.

Leanwolf
August 21, 2013, 02:04 PM
STRAMBO - "Your stuck w/ family...but headed for a world of pain with the fiance. ..."

Correct.

You are not just asking for trouble, you're sitting up and begging for it.

I know two different men who were in your shoes, who went on and married girls who were just like your fiancee. They figured "Ahh, she'll come around after we're married." Both eventually were divorced. Problem is, by then they both had a child. Their divorces were a real mess.

There are lots of pretty girls out their who believe in the inalienable Right of self defense and are in favor of firearms ownership.

Just my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it. :)

L.W.

scaatylobo
August 21, 2013, 02:09 PM
I was born and raised in a VERY anti-gun and anti-hunting atmosphere = new York city:fire:

Since that time,I became a shooter,hunter and finally a police officer and firearms instructor - before retiring with 26 years on the job.:)

I mention all the above due to the FACT that I am on my THIRD MARRIAGE.

MUCH due to the FACT that both prior marriages were based on the LIES we told each other.:evil:

They were not about guns [ showed them both the safe and told them "that's how it will be" ].

But on familys,sex and such.

A word to a prayerfully wise man = DO NOT GO INTO THIS UNION WITHOUT TOTALLY EXPRESSING YOUR FULL INTENTIONS.

I am positive that she believes "she can fix/change you" to fit her idea of a perfect man.

Smarten up ----- or pay the consequences.

Piratesailor
August 21, 2013, 02:14 PM
Good luck...

oneounceload
August 21, 2013, 02:23 PM
I will just say this:

If the two of you are that diametrically opposed on this issue and it is a major issue for both of you, you will NEVER have peace and harmony until one side cedes completely - been there done that on a completely different, but equally as important a relationship issue

Don't rush down the aisle until you are both sure this will not lead to friction

CoyoteSix
August 21, 2013, 02:32 PM
I have a few anti's in the family too. For the sake of saving our family trouble, me and the other pro gunners in the family donot bring up gun politics at get togethers.

As for the fiance, well, i converted mine. YMMV.

coloradokevin
August 21, 2013, 02:53 PM
OP:

You're probably starting to see a theme develop in these responses. You can't choose your family, but you can most certainly choose your spouse. It's really not for any of us to say how important she is to you, or how important your gun hobbies are (given that you posted, I'll presume that both are important). One question you may have to ask yourself is whether or not your fiancee's views on guns are a deal breaker... some things truly are in relationships, and the ridiculously high divorce rate in this country at least somewhat validates the idea that few people properly consider these concerns before walking down the isle.

It can be very hard for two people to build a life together when they have very contradictory views on important subjects. Since you really like shooting, and she really hates guns, this suddenly becomes an important subject! How can you deal with this? Well, you may need to have a sit down to figure out if she's going to consider your side of this issue, and she may well ask you to accept her side instead. The rest is up to you!

Anti-gun family is easier to deal with. I have some members of my extended family who are VERY anti-gun. But, they are family, and they're good and decent people. In fact, 6 of them were just out here this past week, and I took them out for some hiking. We didn't discuss guns, and I conducted myself as I always do (carrying my CCW weapon, which they may or may not have known that I had).

But, not to sound like a broken record here, it is a LOT harder dealing with these issues when they're being caused by an intimate partner! Having said that, I've dated ostensibly anti-gun girls in the past, and the relationships worked out fine because I was able to bring them to our side of the table... these were girls who were anti-gun in theory, but just simply hadn't had much exposure to the subject. One of them is now an ex that I'm on good terms with, but she went from being anti-gun to very pro-gun. She owns a few guns of her own these days. The situation would have never worked for us for as long as it did if she had been truly and severely anti-gun.

Hope that helps!

swiftak
August 21, 2013, 03:20 PM
You're in for a miserable life. Time to grow a pair.

Arkansas Paul
August 21, 2013, 03:28 PM
If the two of you are that diametrically opposed on this issue and it is a major issue for both of you, you will NEVER have peace and harmony until one side cedes completely

And then the bitterness will set in. Then whoever caved in will despise the other. That aint what might happen. That's what will happen.

Schwing
August 21, 2013, 06:30 PM
How is your compatibility in other areas? Do you have similar political, religious and financial views? My experience has been that if a couple disagrees on firearms, there are almost always many other areas that they are never going to see eye-to-eye on. I would be far more worried about my spouse having different views about God, money, or kids... As long as she is not the ultimatum sort. That never ends well and would be a deal breaker for me personally.

Having said that, 2 of my brothers married anti-gun ladies. Both are happy and one of them even has his wife shooting now. My wife has absolutely NO interest in guns... she doesn't hate or fear them, they just don't float her boat. We have been happily married for 18 years.

InkEd
August 21, 2013, 06:41 PM
You have to make her understand that a gun is like any other tool. It only does what you make it do. A hammer is easily very dangerous or lethal but I doubt she has phobia about them. Most phobias are either taught by others or acquired because of a firsthand occurance. Figure out the source and ration through the problem.

smalls
August 21, 2013, 07:00 PM
I think your biggest problem right now is you're about to marry a woman who HATES something you LOVE.

This. Times. A million. It's not a gun problem at the roots, it's a life decision problem.

Pick another one of your hobbies, one that's not so "touchy". Lets say you enjoy boating. If your fiancée said that you had to sell your boat, for whatever un knowledgable bias she has against them, would you still marry her?

Marriage doesn't have to be the end of life some view it as. It should be a happy life. If you're ok with being married to an anti, and you can still be just as happy, go for it,

The rest of your family? They need to be told that this is your lifestyle/hobby, and they can choose to accept you or not. I've stopped talking to family for a lot less.

If guns are important to you, let it be known, and take a stand. Everyone else is free to make their own decision about you based on the ones you've made yourself.

HankR
August 21, 2013, 07:06 PM
My wife was ambivalent. Not a fan, but not going to tell me what I could do with my guns/motorcycles/life. We got that straightened out right away. I didn't need to fake an episode like Reefinmike (hopefully a sailor?), but I insisted that she know enough to clear and safely put away several types of weapons "just in case", since she'd be living with guns in our house.

After a couple of years living in not the best neighborhoods, with me traveling for work every so often, she became much more interested in learning how to shoot. She doesn't shoot much, but we now live in a much safer place. I shoot recreationally with the kids, and my son shotgun and rifle hunts. We encourage her to step out to the backyard range and she probably shoots for 20 minutes or so twice a year. Probably not enough if she ever needed to use a gun w/out me around, but she certainly doesn't attempt to interfere with our interests.

Do not set a wedding date without getting this settled. You'll find plenty of new things to disagree on after you get married without dragging such a significant difference into the mix. I honestly don't see how I could share any values with an individual who is anti-freedom or anti-civil rights.

tomrkba
August 21, 2013, 07:14 PM
All my family is antigun, and so is my fiancee.


Do you have a deal with her regarding firearms and carry? If not, you had better or you are in for a problem. She does not have to touch them and you'll have to accommodate her by purchasing a good safe and one or two small ones for around the house. Your firearms handling and safety must be impeccable.

Like for example, my fiance says that when we live together, she doesn't want it in our house.

You really should not marry this woman if you intend to have firearms. This is not a good match and you two are going to seriously diverge in philosophies. The major problem is the differences in which you two perceive reality. If these differences cannot be reconciled, then you're going to have a problem.

Ignition Override
August 21, 2013, 07:14 PM
A friend is now paying his ex-wife about 50% of his paycheck, and will owe her about half of his retirement in two years.
She has not held a job in years.

If they had only been engaged during the split, in most cases he would owe her nothing. If you guys'/gals' gun advice on how to persuade the fiance works-wonderful. But if not, he has other considerations which could permanently change his life and the type of real estate he can afford.

herrwalther
August 21, 2013, 07:21 PM
To a degree I have an idea. My great grandfather owned firearms for hunting and protection as he worked as a regulator. They were passed to my grandfather when he died. He still owns them to this day but never taught his sons how to shoot or anyone else in his family. As a result, my parent's generation of family is all anti-gun but leaning more neutral every day. Just the other day my mother who has been very anti, asked me if I could help her shop for a NY legal pistol for her. I was quite happy by that. The best antis are the ones that come around eventually.

As for your fiance. I don't know how to approach that one. My wife and I both shoot and own our own separate firearms. Even bought a Cricket for my son even though he doesn't know it yet.

jstein650
August 21, 2013, 07:27 PM
The entire concept of being rabidly "anti gun" has just never made much sense to me. Can a person be "anti automobile".. or "anti chain saw"?? I suppose there are some out there just like that though... These things are tools on the most simple level, and objects of great satisfaction and pride on the other end. They all afford the potential for great harm if misused.
The issue, as has been addressed in many different, and mostly well meaning ways here, more likely goes a good deal deeper than that. It comes down to whether the individual has a deeply rooted repulsion for being in control of one's life and responsible for one's own actions, or would rather leave those sometimes difficult decisions up to someone else. (the gov't)
This is the crux of the situation that, I believe, has generated so much passion on this thread; and I dare say, it should not be taken lightly. (with regard to how one might proceed with this potential conundrum)

JohnBiltz
August 21, 2013, 07:50 PM
You are looking at this as though you are the offending party here. The one laying down the ultimatum was your fiancee. This says something about her not you and if you think it will end with this issue you are delusional. I'll tell you what ends relationships is that things pile up over time and one side or the other just get tired of it. Which is why its often something trivial that gets blamed but its not, its just the tipping point. At some point you will make a stand or be miserable the rest of your life and its better to do it before you are married than after.

Black Knight
August 21, 2013, 07:59 PM
Ask her if someone is about to break in to her home what will she do? I'll bet she says call the police. If she does then you have her. She just said she would call someone with a gun. Then you can tell her that having her own gun would be quicker than the police. A gun in the hand beats 2 or more 5 minutes from now. If she won't defend herself would she defend you or your children? Seriously think about it.

Njal Thorgeirsson
August 21, 2013, 08:06 PM
My advice (from experience) is that words and logic dont work. Period.

But one thing does work, and that thing is a trip to your favorite shooting destination. Teach her the basics, then let her enjoy as much ammo as she wants. I have taken three anti-gun friends to the range and all three channged their opinions very quickly. The only way to learn that guns are fun and safe is hands-on experience

Green Lantern
August 21, 2013, 09:47 PM
I think your biggest problem right now is you're about to marry a woman who HATES something you LOVE.

I'm no great guru in relationships, but....THIS. /\

I do know a thing or two about having to put up with family members that I'd really rather avoid, it's not like you get to choose your family. Your spouse, on the other hand (at least here in the first world)....

I guess it would come down to how serious you are about firearms and being pro-2A. For me, it would be a relationship-ender. For others, it might be more like "he likes Duke, she likes Carolina." Choose accordingly...choose wisely!

LeonCarr
August 21, 2013, 11:15 PM
On the second date after meeting the lady who is now my wife we went to the range and shot handguns. We had a great time.

One night we were getting ready to go to a ritzy country club for dinner (NFL Quarterback Terry Bradshaw was eating there at the same time we were) and meeting my future in-laws for the first time. I took my S&W 442 Airweight, checked that it was loaded, put in my pocket holster and put it in my pocket. She asked if I was taking it to dinner. I said yes. She smiled, but did not object. 6 years later we are still married.

The moral of this story and the many stories in this thread is that marriages are based on truth and understanding. it sounds like the OP has many things he needs to workout with his fiance before making the ultimate commitment.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

dmazur
August 22, 2013, 12:36 AM
I realize I'm lucky because I have a wife who generally likes the things I do, so we can do them together.

She started carrying a .380, then read they had lower odds of stopping an attacker than something with a little more energy and she asked if I thought she could handle a .45 ACP. I said, "Well, maybe."

Eventually, she picked an Officers Model and struggled with running the slide, and with controlling muzzle flip. (I warned her that smaller didn't make things better... ) But now she's quite happy with it and can shoot respectable groups at 10 yds.

She is quite happy with me doing all the reloading, and delights in my pained expression when she burns through yet another box of 50...

What's the point of all this? I can't imagine life with her as an anti-gun person. It sounds like some kind of slow torture.

Find another one...

tarosean
August 22, 2013, 01:28 AM
You should not be hiding anything!!! Guns are not immoral or illegal..

You need to talk this out with all of them in a calm rational manner.
If you cannot communicate with your future wife you are doomed. Marriage is hard work and full of compromises.

My 1st wife hated guns. While I could lie to you and say it was the reason we are not together anymore, it was not.

Ignition Override
August 22, 2013, 01:50 AM
My wife doesn't even like an ammo can (possible sharp edges) to be on the back seat of her car. But luckily she is a level-headed person and has a logical reason when she gets irked or angry.

If she had Not been a very rational person.....I never would have become serious about her when we dated. My active shooting/gun buying did not begin until we had been together about fifteen years.

Her father spent a 30-year career with the Army Quartermasters and was attached, by choice, to the 101st in all of their WW2 campaigns. Maybe this helped her to be very rational about guns.

Has the OP considered asking his fiance to go along for a chat with a minister or other type of mediator?

Zach S
August 22, 2013, 04:31 AM
If so, how do you deal with it?

I don't. Having dated a rabid anti-gun lady in the past, I wasn't doing it again. So, guns were normally second or third date material. Easier for both parties to walk away before it turned into a relationship.

In my experience, hiding anything from a woman is asking for trouble. Sneaking a new purchase by her is one thing, but an entire hobby? Good luck.

There's always been an ultimatum if the lady hates whatever. Guns, hot rods, motorcycles, etc.

My advice, choose now, or choose later.

okiewita40
August 22, 2013, 05:17 AM
In the 25 years I have been married to my wife she has never liked guns. She grew up with her dad and brothers hunting. When I got home in 2010 I bought a rifle. The wife objected. She asked what it was for I said deer hunting. She said she liked deer meat. So I still have my rifle.

Then came a shotgun. She didn't like it. I said it was for home defense and hunting. She has gotten used to it. Then came my CCW pistol. She took offense to it. I said that being an LEO for the last 13 years in the prison system I have a lot of people that are not happy with me.

Now she still dislikes the pistol. But it is my house also. Since both of our kids are out of the house. Once I finish my man cave. All the guns will be put in there.

It can work out. But you will have to use logic and stand your ground. Best of luck to you.

Deanimator
August 22, 2013, 05:39 AM
Most of my family is anti-gun. I couldn't care less what they think about what I do, gun related or otherwise. Be my human shield or shut up. I don't make the slightest effort to hide my interests.
I wouldn't marry somebody who thinks that I should let her and me be robbed, raped or murdered. That's usually sign of other psychopathologies.

Davek1977
August 22, 2013, 06:31 AM
I love my wife. How she feels about things is VERY impotant to me, and there are few things I'd ever insist upon that she was deadset against. However....wheil we were still in college and dating, she learned I was a gun owner, even though i didnt currently have any in my possession. This upset her to a degree, and she actially said that if we were going to be together, she didnt want there to be guns in the house. I was shocked, but calmly explained I was a gun owner well before I ever met her, and, well, if need be...would be well after she was a memory. She didnt like this but her basis for her dislike of guns was ignorance....she simply had zero exposure to them growing up and grew up in an all female household. There came a time a rifle of mine needed some repairs done, and was suddenly in my possession rather than tucked away at my parents. She was uncomfrotable at first, but I made her sit down and listen while I explained the working of the rifle, explained the basic gun safety rules, and told her I'd welcome questions rather than be annoyed with them. Today, we have several guns in the residence, and she actually fears NOT having access to a gun moreso than one being present.

coyote315
August 22, 2013, 07:01 AM
I once had a Ph D'd acquaintance of the family who was fairly anti-gun explain that she had an ignorance (not stupidity, just unenlightened) based phobia of pistols because of her similar-to-your-fiancee-'s upbringing. She would hyperventilate at the presence of a pistol!! I found this out quite awkwardly when we were both independently visiting my parents and I casually laid mine on the counter to be more comfortable drinking my coffee... I asked her if she worked with complex pieces of equipment every day in her lab, to which she replied, "of course." So, we tried an experiment that we designed together. She came over one day and relaxed visiting, and I then took her into the next room where i had a 1911 completely disassembled on a towel, parts well spaced out. We then went over each part together and assembled the machine slowly, discussing function and safety etc.
By the time we were done, she was much more at ease. By the end of the day, she was enjoying shooting my wife's buckmark .22 at a steel flapper.
She by no means is a handgunner now, but her phobia is cured and she understands the realities of a firearm and it's inherent safety as an inanimate object.
YMMV, but adapt to your situation perhaps?

GBExpat
August 22, 2013, 07:05 AM
All my family is antigun, and so is my fiancee. I have to hide the fact that I own firearms from my family, and my fiance says she "hates guns" and is "scared of them." ... <snip> ...
Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap? Are 99% of the people in your life against firearms, and you feel that you constantly have to hide, argue, and defend your rights to your loved ones? If so, how do you deal with it?

Really? C'mon, Praxidike, it is time for you to Grow A Pair and become a Man.

First thing, if you cannot "convert" the Fiance, lose her ... or you will lose her at a later time and have to give her at least have of all of your stuff.

Second ... time to come Out of the Closet with your family. Hopefully, they will get over the shock & learn to live with it but, if not, that is part of Life.

I wish you the best of luck!

12131
August 22, 2013, 08:25 AM
Something's got to give, or this relationship won't end well.

valnar
August 22, 2013, 09:02 AM
Have a talk, have an argument, get heated BEFORE you get married. Do it now, as uncomfortable as it might be. Once you are married, arguments like that have a lot more at stake.

I know from experience that people who are young and in love tend to avoid arguments for fear of upsetting the other. Do it now. Hash it out. Either you'll come to an understanding, or you'll find out just how much she hates guns (and possibly other things about you too!) If you don't think you'll have any arguments or disagreements when you are married, you are in for a surprise.


I wouldn't marry somebody who thinks that I should let her and me be robbed, raped or murdered.
That's a tricky argument. I'd only use the fact I love guns and like it as a sport/hobby, etc. Otherwise it sounds like, "Well dear, I *have* to be proficient with a gun in order to protect us. It's not that I like them, but a necessary evil."
I mean, lets face it, if we didn't have guns, it's not like we'd practice weekly hitting fake intruders with a baseball bat, or practice shooting rabbits outside with pepper spray. Don't use the argument that it's a tool. Just flat out say it's something you love and enjoy.

JustinJ
August 22, 2013, 10:18 AM
That's a tricky argument. I'd only use the fact I love guns and like it as a sport/hobby, etc. Otherwise it sounds like, "Well dear, I *have* to be proficient with a gun in order to protect us. It's not that I like them, but a necessary evil."
I mean, lets face it, if we didn't have guns, it's not like we'd practice weekly hitting fake intruders with a baseball bat, or practice shooting rabbits outside with pepper spray. Don't use the argument that it's a tool. Just flat out say it's something you love and enjoy.

I'd say guns are a reasonable and effective defense strategy, relative to shooting rabbits with pepper spray. I don't drive a tank to work for safety but I do wear my seatbelt because the cost of the security it provides is relatively cheap and proportional to the risk. There are plenty of people who are not passionate about guns but still keep one or more for defense. However, I agree, if the OP is also a gun lover this should be a huge part of what he communicates. Ultimately he has to try and come to an understanding with the lady, decide to give up guns, or bail.

valnar
August 22, 2013, 10:29 AM
Agreed.

Nobody goes around saying they love their shovels, and that would sound silly to an anti. While it's true that the 2nd amendment protects our rights to defend our self, and that somewhat makes it a tool of necessity, it's usually a bad argument against your spouse.

So for the OP, I just suggest you use the tactic as you stated. You love shooting.

Queen_of_Thunder
August 22, 2013, 10:37 AM
I would suggest that you have a sitdown and be honest with your soon to be SO. Otherwise it will become a source of trouble in your marriage.Better to find out now rather then later.

Cee Zee
August 22, 2013, 11:40 AM
Look it's your life but speaking from someone with 37 years of marriage under my belt I can say without reservation it's way better to be on the same page with the person you're going to marry. Just to be honest I wouldn't marry someone that tried to tell me how to live. I would never leave guns where a kid could get at them but when my kids were little I always had access to a couple of SD guns and the kids didn't have access to them. Of course no situation is perfect including a safe. But it was my job to protect my children and "fight them off" is no real way of doing that. Sure it would be better if no one in the world owned guns and all the big bad animals would have get togethers and sing songs around the campfire but that ain't the way of the world. I couldn't have lived with myself if I had let my kids get hurt without even trying to protect them in a way that had a chance of working.

I suspect you love your fiance but you have a very significant difference in your view of the world. Expect it to be a problem eventually. I'm sorry to say that and I don't mean to meddle but that's how it is. Everything becomes an issue eventually if you live long enough. Just wait until someone breaks into your house and you get to thinking what if you had been home or what if you had come home in the middle of the break in. I just went through that with my daughter. She was renting my house and she moved out of it because someone broke in. She got back almost everything but you will never get back that feeling of security. For me it was two armed robberies I sat through as a victim. Staring down the barrel of a gun when you don't have one is a freaking helpless feeling and I hate it especially considering the way I was raised. We were prepared to protect ourselves. My mother held off a rapist with a shotgun. My grandfather held off a gang of kidnappers to keep my uncle at home. He used a shotgun too. My father gave me a shotgun when I moved out on my own. I gave the same shotgun to my daughter. Yes it got stolen and yes she got it back. The point is that you might very well want to be able to protect your children when you have some and your wife's wishes might not mean as much to you in the face of that. I would think long and hard about this if I were you. My wife knows the value of guns and is training with them herself. I made sure we were on the same page on just about everything before I decided to marry. If you let your wife tell you how to live you'll end up resenting it. Maybe she won't be able to tolerate guns. Maybe you won't be able to tolerate being told how to live. I'd think hard about it. Marriage is for life if you do it right.

bdickens
August 22, 2013, 12:02 PM
Hmmm, reminds me of someone who once said -- ask yourself what things you'll want to find in your second wife -- and marry her instead. You may never get the chance to meet her later on and it will be a painful and costly road to get you there if you ever do.
Great advice!

I went ahead and married the woman I would have run off with.

HankR
August 22, 2013, 12:50 PM
The entire concept of being rabidly "anti gun" has just never made much sense to me. Can a person be "anti automobile".. or "anti chain saw"??

Well stated. "Antis" are not "anti gun" -- they are anti-freedom and against individuals taking responsibility for their own safety. They want the state to be the only one that can protect you, so that you will have to rely on the state.


I love my wife. How she feels about things is VERY impotant to me.... if we were going to be together, she didnt want there to be guns in the house. I ... calmly explained I was a gun owner well before I ever met her, and, well, if need be...would be well after she was a memory.

This. And she has to mean it when she agrees. In my experience, women sometimes agree to things thinking that they will change you "later". Make sure she knows that she is not going to change you in this regard.

Sniper66
August 22, 2013, 01:08 PM
Hey Praxidike, As a retired psychologist and having counseled 100s of couples and having been married more than once, I speak from a mountain of experience. It is critical that you respect her views and feelings, but is is no less essential that you insist she respect yours. I would strongly advise that you immediately cease hiding your preferences and views from your family and your fiancee. Learning to live comfortably with differences, while being clear about your own is the hallmark of healthy living. Part of that is accepting that not everyone will agree with you and that's not only OK, but essential. Of course gun guys like us scratch our heads and agree with you, but that won't help you. If your fiancee cannot bring herself to respect your passion for guns, I don't predict much success in your marriage.

JTHunter
August 22, 2013, 01:12 PM
Praxidike - YOU have a PROBLEM.
If (and I stress IF) you can get your fiance to an OUTDOOR range to practice with a .22, make sure you have GOOD set of hearing protection. This lady might be frightened by all the loud noises (does she cringe from thunder?) Or, if you can get to a range when it is relatively quiet, even better.

IF you can't get her to even TRY, then do the SMART THING and do NOT make yourself miserable 2-3 years from now. Get another g/f!!

Claude Clay
August 22, 2013, 01:17 PM
Are 99% of the people in your life against firearms

quite the opposite actually...
i'll let in some otherwise intellgent people who have yet to
mature, but to be unable to relax around 99% of the people
you hold dear is to be false to yourself

Ashcons
August 22, 2013, 02:24 PM
Praxidike, I know a random forum poster (or about 50) won't persuade you to change your plans, but this issue is a ticking time bomb; one of you will have to give on this and if you believe in self-defense with a firearm while she doesn't (and is so afraid of them that she doesn't want them in the house), it's going to be a very tough thing to work through as you will either be forced to give up something you have a belief in, she will have to change her preconceptions and/or live with something that she is irrationally afraid of, or some combination of those two extremes. You could always lie to her and hide your guns in the house, but that's no solution and a breach of trust. Best of luck to you; there are a handful of non-religious beliefs that are diametrically opposed and pro/anti firearm views is one. Either the gun is an evil, violent thing that should not exist, or it is a tool that can be used for many things, most important the defense of self, family, and community in the gravest extreme (although there are a lot of people who care little enough to go one way OR the other).

My wife's mom's side of the family consists 100% of anti-gun types who think a gun is nothing but a liability to the owner. Her dad's side of the family and all my family are pro-gun ownership or neutral (as in they don't seem to care one way or another and have expressed no opinion on the matter), whether or not they own guns themselves. My wife loves shooting with me, even though she doesn't get all excited about firearms like I do.

Justin
August 22, 2013, 02:27 PM
I was once given an ultimatum from a girl I was dating along the lines of "it's the guns or me."

My response is best summed up thusly:

http://i.imgur.com/4Aqlukh.gif

Back when I was dating, every woman I went out with was told in quite clear terms that I owned guns, shot regularly, and attended matches at least a few times a month. If they had a problem with that, they were free to leave.

Arkansas Paul
August 22, 2013, 02:51 PM
Yeah, I haven't been in the dating game in quiet a while but it wouldn't take long for it to come up if I were. The first time she walked in my door it would be quiet obvious. And I would quote Curly Bill in a heartbeat if there was a problem.

Bubbles
August 22, 2013, 04:29 PM
Does anyone else have to deal with the same crap? Are 99% of the people in your life against firearms, and you feel that you constantly have to hide, argue, and defend your rights to your loved ones? If so, how do you deal with it?
I've found it's much easier and less stressful to not hide the fact that I own guns, breed snakes, make my own wine, and occasionally ride a motorcycle from my family, friends, and coworkers. If they don't like it that's their problem, I don't make it mine.

oneounceload
August 22, 2013, 05:39 PM
^^^^ there ya go

One of the best comments about life in general was spoken to me by Foxy at his bar in the BVI

When asked how he was, he responded, "Today I am MOST excellent........and tomorrow, I'll be even better"...........

I thought that was a GREAT way to look at , and go through, life.........

If you can't say that is how your life will be under the circumstances you described, you need to alter a few things

r1derbike
August 22, 2013, 08:35 PM
Life's too short to live by other people's rules. Be your own man, unless you choose not to. Your choice.

2nd marriage. Lifetime partner. We respect each others' desires, beliefs. No BS, no controlling behavior, no grief. Two people who give each other the space they need. What could be simpler?

As far as how my family feels? They are family. Not citizens under my roof. And if they were, my house, my rules, or hit the highway. At 56, I've put-up with enough BS to last a lifetime. No more.

labhound
August 22, 2013, 08:59 PM
Like r1derbike said "life is too short". :uhoh: Find someone who enjoys the same things in life and holds the save values that you do. Never get in a relationship where you constantly have to hide anything or justify your lifestyle. :)

justice06rr
August 22, 2013, 09:10 PM
I would just ask the OP, which one can you live without: Your fiance or your firearms?

If it comes down to it and you have to choose, which is more important to you?

These are tough decisions, and if you can't make a compromise you will end up choosing one or the other. If your fiancee really does love you, she will compromise to your firearms ownership even if she doesn't get involved in it herself.

Your biological family you're stuck with, but the one you choose to spend the rest of your life with you still have a choice. Best of luck to you.

Ohio Gun Guy
August 22, 2013, 09:45 PM
My .02

She may not have to like them, but she needs to get okay with you having them.

When My wife wasn't my wife, yet. one day I put all my guns over every seat in the living room.... she had to touch and move one in order to sit down. she found out that she didn't drop dead from the sight of a gun, nor from touching it. Up until then she wouldn't even be in the same room....literally. I've never gotten her to the range, but I take the kids.

Ask yourself that question, to me it would cause serious consideration if she's not open minded enough to get to the point where she'd be okay with you taking a future son to the range..... (And daughter....:))

SharpsDressedMan
August 22, 2013, 09:54 PM
Find people who view things in life as you do. Make them your friends. It is not unusual to have family that differs in political or ethical matters. You are stuck with family, but you don't have to let them dictate your lifestyle or happiness. You just have to LOVE them....possibly from a distance, or in limited quantities. However, it is EXTREMELY ill advised to marry into a relationship that will always made you sad or unhappy. A marriage made of that will not last. Find a mate who SHARES your likes and dislikes.

Praxidike
August 22, 2013, 11:54 PM
I'm going to let her read some of these post

Deanimator
August 23, 2013, 05:47 AM
That's a tricky argument. I'd only use the fact I love guns and like it as a sport/hobby, etc. Otherwise it sounds like, "Well dear, I *have* to be proficient with a gun in order to protect us. It's not that I like them, but a necessary evil."
I mean, lets face it, if we didn't have guns, it's not like we'd practice weekly hitting fake intruders with a baseball bat, or practice shooting rabbits outside with pepper spray. Don't use the argument that it's a tool. Just flat out say it's something you love and enjoy.
I like guns AND they're a tool.

There is simply NO reason in the world for me to give a violent predator the overwhelming advantage by NOT using a gun to defend myself.

Trust me, I make not the SLIGHTEST effort to conceal my interest in firearms. Anybody who visits me sees easily $1,000 worth of gun BOOKS on shelves, never mind the guns themselves.

The VERY central point of my comment was that anybody who feels that it's better to be a victim than to protect oneself with a gun (or anything else available) isn't somebody I want to spend an evening with, never mind the rest of my LIFE.

beatledog7
August 23, 2013, 08:42 AM
Imagine marrying a woman who hates your parents, or your faithful dog, or your way of life. Every day would be a struggle.

No way. Not I.

desidog
August 23, 2013, 01:22 PM
fiance says that when we live together,

Living together is a major step in a relationship. Unless your families are totally opposed, you shouldn't wait until you get married to test those waters. A lot more than how you store your rifles will come into focus.

/I know not everyone will agree from a religious standpoint, but that's for another website...

IlikeSA
August 24, 2013, 01:03 AM
A friend once told me, in regards to marriage: "If it's important to her, it should be important to you." You are considering getting married, and how she feels about firearms is important to her. Are you willing to make that sacrifice to change your views and perspective?

In the same way, the opposite is true too. If it is important to you, it should be important to her. Is she also willing to compromise her thoughts and beliefs? This could be about anything, from firearms to politics, religion, or future desires like children or where to live.

ExTank
August 24, 2013, 12:10 PM
I bought my first gun in 1989, a Colt Peacekeeper .357, while stationed at Ft. Hood, Texas.

I brought it home with me to St. Louis while on leave, and my Mom had a minor hissy-fit about having a gun in her home.

We sat and talked about it for a bit, and I agreed to keep it unloaded, and made the point to her (she was NOT unreasonable) that an unloaded firearm was no different than a fork or knife (an inanimate metal object), and she relented to the point that as my collection grew, I was able to store some firearms with her during moves, job hunts, etc.

It turned out she never really had much against firearms in general, it was just that Dad would clean guns on the kitchen table, or living room coffee table, and leave gun-stuff scattered all over the table (and throughout the house!) even during dinner times (Dad is still quite a slob, even moreso since Mom and Dad divorced in 1972, and he's had 40+ years of bachelorhood to fully develop his slovenly habits).

So compared to the OP, I've had it pretty lucky.

Shanghai McCoy
August 26, 2013, 08:16 AM
Imagine marrying a woman who hates your parents, or your faithful dog, or your way of life. Every day would be a struggle.

No way. Not I.
Sounds like my first marriage...:o

Got it better the 2nd time tho.:)

Arkansas Paul
August 26, 2013, 11:57 AM
Dad would clean guns on the kitchen table, or living room coffee table, and leave gun-stuff scattered all over the table (and throughout the house!)

Yeah, I do this sometimes too and the wife hates it. Man, what is up with women? Sheesh!

RetiredUSNChief
August 26, 2013, 03:09 PM
Yeah, I do this sometimes too and the wife hates it. Man, what is up with women? Sheesh!

I don't ever recall my Mom complaining about this at all.

Of course, we cleaned our guns on the picnic table in the back yard and not the kitchen table.

:neener:

But the table itself would be politically incorrect today...it was made of real Redwood.

Stevie-Ray
August 26, 2013, 03:29 PM
I guess I was one of the luckier ones. My fiance was not a gun enthusiast, but had absolutely nothing against them at all. Only thing better would have been one that was a gun nut like me. Later on in years she tried to handle a gun, so she could better protect herself, but her destroyed hands (long story) wouldn't allow her to manipulate even the simplest of guns. She now has to depend solely on me for her own defense. Only problem she has had with guns in all our 38 years together was the cost. Of course, as we're not talking about her clothes, are we?;)

Had she been a raving anti, I would have said goodbye rather early. Sorry, but I believe too strongly in defensive firearms to let anybody make me give them up.

Bubbles
August 26, 2013, 03:29 PM
Something else to consider OP: even if you eventually convert her or get her to agree to tolerate the firearms, once her family finds out (and they will), will she be prepared to deal with the backlash from her parents, siblings, etc?

tnelson31
August 26, 2013, 04:02 PM
I have to hide the fact that I own firearms from my family, and my fiance says she "hates guns" and is "scared of them."
Walk away, lest you live life built on a foundation of lies.

Put "must love guns (for real)" on the dating sanity checklist. At the same level as "want kids" or "has herpes" level of honesty. No hopium, no change later, no teaching, they'll love it (after they state loathing)--none of that.

My two cents.

For what it is worth, marriage is survivable to an anti, but what price glory?

tnelson31
August 26, 2013, 04:06 PM
but I take the kids
This brings up another thing, pre-kid it was just possession and location of storage. Post kid, it is about what skills/knowledge you can pass to your children without starting world war three.

Deer_Freak
August 26, 2013, 04:10 PM
If she is going to just throw down the gauntlet and you are just dating wait until you are married. I would ditch her like an old newspaper. There are going to be to many hard times and times when you just don't agree to spend your life with someone who has an "or else" attitude. If your partner isn't willing to look for common ground it's a hard road.

22-rimfire
August 26, 2013, 04:14 PM
I would question my relationship if she is adamant about having NO firearms in the house when she knows you enjoy them. What else is she going to restrict for you in the future?

Ashcons
August 26, 2013, 04:43 PM
Let us know how it goes, unless you want to keep the resolution in house. Personally, I think such an important issue would be difficult to work through as it would take either surrendering a closely held view through fear of loss or revising a closely held view due to new information, which seems difficult, generally, for humans.

hillbilly
August 26, 2013, 04:51 PM
Short Answers.

No. Nobody in my family hates guns.

No, I don't deal with it.

I would not date nor marry a woman who demanded I not have guns in my house.

I've been happily married for 20 years.

brainwake
August 26, 2013, 05:00 PM
deleted my bad advice...

I can offer just one thing...don't listen to anyone...these things have to come from your heart and what is right for you. You and only you can know.

cambeul41
August 26, 2013, 06:19 PM
Miracles do happen. When we were dating and when we first got married, I had a few guns, but was not doing anything with them, so I didn't really realize that my wife was close to being a full blown hoplophobe. Not anti, but near phobic. She never pressured me to get rid of them, but didn't want them to be readily at hand.

Then came a murderous weekend in Detroit where I worked. She decided that she wanted me to carry, and she decided that she would join me in the class for togetherness sake. The range exercises almost freaked her out. She had to be faced down range and the gun inserted into her hand. Then she decided she needed to practice and get more training. Now she has more guns than I do, and carries when and where legal.

Do note: She decided to change herself, I did not push.

Cee Zee
August 28, 2013, 12:57 AM
You two are not even married yet, and she is already dictating how you will live your life.

That would be my reason for questioning things. If you're the type that can live with someone telling you how to live ten go for it. If not....

BullfrogKen
August 28, 2013, 05:02 PM
It's more of an annoyance than anything. It just gets old having to hide the crap, explain myself, and not dealing with all the drama...

Then stop doing it. You give them the power to do that to you. You're not talking about drugs, or some weird sex fetish toys, or anything even odd. Half of American households have a gun in it. It's about as American as football Sundays and baseball summers.

So get it out of your head that gun ownership is wrong. They're the ones with the problem, not you. Just proceed with your life and stop playing defense.


I'd have a huge problem with someone who put out ultimatums like that. It's not about the guns; ultimatums are about someone controlling someone else.

I'm going to let her read some of these post

Yeah, OK. Let us know how that works out for you.

You can't battle emotion with logic. A self-assured, "I'm sorry honey, but I can't have a relationship with someone who has started issuing ultimatums before we're even married. But I'm glad you told me now and not later." Followed up with a sudden scarcity for a month or two while you pursue your life would be much more effective.


However . . . you'll have to square this one with me . . .

Last month you started this thread in Legal:

Visitation - Children - Firearms (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9026247#post9026247)

My ex wife is extremely liberal and is 100% anti-gun which is strange because here father is a hunter and eats venison (she has as well). Anyway, at a recent custody visitation hearing, she found out that I legally own a firearm, and she brought it to the judges attention as if I was committing a crime or was some how a danger because of it. In the finial visitation order, the liberal judge stated that I'm not allowed to have my firearm when my child is around. Basically, I can not legally conceal carry or have my firearms in my home during my visitation. Now, I could understand this if there was any history of me legally exercising my 2nd amendment rights somehow endangered my children in the past (like me leaving a loaded gun on laying around), or even if I had a violent criminal past, but I do not.

My question is, can this legally be enforced and is this even legal for a family court judge to right into a visitation order?


So let me get this straight. You went through this once already. You have a child from that marriage, and the two of you obviously don't get along right now, otherwise she wouldn't be giving you this kind of grief before a judge in a visitation hearing.

And you're about to repeat the same mistake again.


What am I missing?

Walkalong
August 28, 2013, 05:52 PM
Lying to your wife and family is no way to go through life. It tends not to work out well sooner or later.

hillbilly
August 28, 2013, 07:29 PM
Oh man.

You've already divorced one anti-gun liberal who has tried to use your gun ownership against you in kid custody matters.

And now, you're about to go down that road again?

I say this with as much compassion and goodwill possible.

But if you do go down this road again, you will deserve every bad thing that comes out of it.

wep45
August 28, 2013, 08:38 PM
I live near Chicago....doesn't get much more anti gun then that area...... but we pushed back for a loooong time and now we will be able to ccw.

never, never, never give up in what you believe. promote it, encourage it, enable it, teach it.

todays anti gun person as yet to be raped, robbed, beaten and then will become tomorrows gun carrying individual....

oneounceload
August 28, 2013, 08:55 PM
And you're about to repeat the same mistake again.


What am I missing?

That history really DOES repeat itself?

That those who do not study history are destined to repeat it?

The OP has 6 pages with a very common theme, yet there is the emotional attachment involved. Whether he will come to his senses before he loses another half of everything he owns, is entirely up to him

bikerdoc
August 28, 2013, 09:01 PM
So OP you sensing a trend here?

X-JaVeN-X
August 28, 2013, 09:16 PM
LOL mine too man. All my family are New York Liberals... I figured there would be more who were in my situation, but I guess not. I'm not too worried about the fiance, or the fam. It's more of an annoyance than anything. It just gets old having to hide the crap, explain myself, and not dealing with all the drama... Because most of you have not had to deal with it, it's like being an Atheist in living in a deeply religious town with deeply religious family...
Just an annoyance? Things that "annoy" you now will be what drives a wedge between you later. You'd be surprised what you THINK you can put up with that down the road leads to a lot of bitterness between you two. Drama? You ain't seen nothin' yet...let this charade continue for a few more years into marriage and you'll get to see some real drama. Religion and politics are two things that should not be mixed when getting married if you ask me.

The fact that you hide your guns from your family tells me that you probably aren't ready for an open an honest relationship which is an absolute must in marriage.

As for my wife...I have a completely different problem. I have to worry about her out-shootin' me in front of my friends and family. It happens more than I'd like to admit...

The_Armed_Therapist
August 28, 2013, 09:20 PM
Stop hiding it! When you hide it, you are confirming to them that they are bad things. Don't FLAUNT it, either. You own and carry guns as a matter of fact. It's reasonable; it's sane; and it's something you are going to continue to do. Have the conversations, and have them in a productive way. They don't have to accept it, but you shouldn't imprison yourself for the sake of placation.

There is no reason you can't have your fiance AND your guns. If each is vital to you, then it should not be YOUR choice. It should be hers. You don't want to hear this, but if she would give you up because of your guns, then she's not worth it. Plus, if you start caving on this stuff before you are even officially together, then you will NOT be happy down the line. It won't stop.

From a "systems therapist" perspective, I'd be interested in how conversations usually go with your family and fiance. How does it come up? Who brings it up? What's the tone? What are the hidden messages? How do you respond? How do they respond to your response? What kinds of thoughts and/or emotions are present during the conversations? I hypothesize that there is a "vicious cycle" of communication involved that is making this unnecessarily unproductive for you.

Dean1818
August 29, 2013, 06:53 AM
My wife didnt like guns

1) I took her to the range
Hint hint...... The caliber is 22..... Not 44 magnum for the initial shoot

2) I showed her the articles of home invasion
And asked...... What would you do???

3) I showed her the NRA articles of people protecting themselves

She still doesnt love guns, but she will shoot someone who breaks in

Deer_Freak
August 29, 2013, 07:13 AM
This situation would never happen to me. My first date would be a plinking session. Then some wine and dinner. One of the joys of being a southern redneck. I am not very sophisticated. Any woman can figure out what I am all about in an hour or so. I have been married for 26 years. Most of my friends have been married for a long time.

Oh gimme, gimme a redneck girl!

Walkalong
August 29, 2013, 07:37 AM
Nothing beats honesty up front.

HexHead
August 29, 2013, 07:42 AM
Dump her. You're potentially exposing yourself to a lifetime of misery. She's afraid of guns. Wait until you have a big argument and she's afraid of your guns. She gets an order of protection and you lose your guns forever. Or wait until you have to sell all your guns to pay her in the inevitable divorce.

Move on, you may be blinded being in the fiance stage, but there's plenty of women out there you can have just as much fun with.

Garmangabis
August 29, 2013, 08:29 AM
This is why I met my present wife using "Hannidate" Sean Hannity's website for conservative singles.

I was married to a liberal for 5 years, it was kind of like having a pet human.

Midwest
August 29, 2013, 08:44 AM
Dump her. You're potentially exposing yourself to a lifetime of misery. She's afraid of guns. Wait until you have a big argument and she's afraid of your guns. She gets an order of protection and you lose your guns forever. Or wait until you have to sell all your guns to pay her in the inevitable divorce.

Move on, you may be blinded being in the fiance stage, but there's plenty of women out there you can have just as much fun with.

^^^^^^^^^
I have to agree, and a very important point for the OP to consider....

mljdeckard
August 29, 2013, 08:48 AM
It has been one of the rare pleasures of my life, to have an ex girlfriend who was anti 13 years ago, have her own children, and ask me to teach her a concealed carry class.

Kleanbore
August 29, 2013, 09:08 AM
With a sprinkling of firearms discussion and a lot of Dear Abby, this one has run its course.

BullfrogKen
August 29, 2013, 09:37 AM
Yeah, you're probably right. Praxidike was on last night and didn't address his thread.


Closed for mopery with intent to gawk.


If he wants to come back and discuss it further, he's free to PM a Moderator to ask us reopen it.

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