My first use of pepper spray


PDA






Phineas Dregg
August 21, 2013, 10:11 PM
I must say I'm a bit disappointed in pepper spray.

Two dogs (lab mixes I think) came charging after me in my garage, barking, with their hackles raised. They stopped before actually entering my garage and my wife was able to close the door without them coming any closer. Then they decided to sit on my porch. If I tried to open my door they would come after me. I snuck around through a side door and sprayed them with pepper spray.

I was using Sabre Red because I heard it was a good brand. The stream seemed kind of weak and only went about six feet. I managed to get one of the dogs in the face. He stopped barking at me and casually trotted off a few feet and rubbed his paw once or twice on his face and they both layed down in my yard. After they had been so aggressive earlier I didn't want them hanging around. I thought perhaps my pepper spray had gotten too old or something (though it isn't expired), so I got another (bigger) can of pepper spray from my house and went back out. I sprayed them with the second can. The stream probably went a foot or two farther, but the results were the same. It really didn't seem to bother them much.

I went into my house and 15 minutes later heard the dogs barking at somebody else.

There had been no yelping. The dogs were in no hurry to get away. They didn't seem to be bothered as badly as I am when I get shampoo in my eyes. Maybe the spray works better on humans, but I find myself questioning the effectiveness of pepper spray for self defense.

If you enjoyed reading about "My first use of pepper spray" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ColtPythonElite
August 21, 2013, 10:17 PM
Spray yourself in the face and report back.

jdub3
August 21, 2013, 10:36 PM
^ Yeah my results with pepper spray are the opposite of yours. I used it on an aggressive homeless guy who grabbed the back of my collar and demanded money and he took off like a scalded cat.

InkEd
August 21, 2013, 10:39 PM
Try bear spray

Phineas Dregg
August 21, 2013, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the reply jdub3. I wonder if it was because the dogs had enough fur/hair on their face that it didn't make enough skin contact to burn. I know I got them in the face but maybe it didn't quite get in the eyes. The spray did at least stop the aggression.

DNS
August 21, 2013, 11:19 PM
My wife sat on her Blackhawk spray in the car seat and sprayed some inside. She came out coughing and feeling sick. I wiped a small amount of residue off of it and rubbed my finger clean my jeans. Five minutes later I touched my lower lip and it instantly went numb. I certainly don't want to get a face full.

ColtPythonElite
August 21, 2013, 11:22 PM
I have sprayed people and been sprayed. It certainly worked in my experiences. It is not 100%, though. Some people are hardly affected. I have seen training videos of those few but haven't encountered one yet.

AZ PAUL
August 21, 2013, 11:38 PM
I have been sprayed with Sabre Red. I can tell you it worked damn well on me. I was given a good spray in the academy. We had all kinds of prior military that said it was much worse than the gas in basic. I cant think of a single guy (or the girl) that it did not affect.

leadcounsel
August 22, 2013, 12:06 AM
Garden hose. Dogs hate water!

Seriously, having been in training to use OC spray, and been sprayed myself, it's a debilitating miserable experience. I suspect you didn't get a 'hit' on the dogs.

Madcap_Magician
August 22, 2013, 09:58 AM
Hmm, it is supposed to work on animals. That's unfortunate.

Kingcreek
August 22, 2013, 11:07 AM
I used OC spray on an aggressive rott with similar experiences. I had to ruin an $80 bicycle tire pump on his head to turn him off.
Another time I used it on a non aggressive collie pup that was gonna cause a pile up because he was chasing and cutting in front of bikes and he went tumbling and yelping into the ditch like he was clubbed.

X-Rap
August 22, 2013, 12:28 PM
Years ago I had a contract to replace miles of wood fencing around the common areas in a residential area. It seemed every yard we got to had a dam dog (especially in the rental areas). Residents were notified to keep their dogs confined and few listened. We tried a couple different sprays and ended up keeping a 4' level or #2 shovel handy, either would take the fight out of a vicious dog faster than the sprays. I wish I would have tried or even had the bear spray available at the time but I don't recall seeing it available back then but those sprays left me less than impressed.

zhyla
August 22, 2013, 02:03 PM
Was it very windy? It would be good to distinguish between it not working and it not actually getting deployed on the animal's face in sufficient quantity.

dirtykid
August 22, 2013, 02:49 PM
Im not one to believe in expiration-dates, but could it be possible it was an old container ?

I had a similar experience a few years ago, out in my backyard working, and I got cornered in my utility shed by 2-dogs I had never seen before, and they were VERY aggressive as soon as they saw me.
All I had in the shed was a can of "Deep Woods Off" mosquito spray, so I just held the button down and walked towards them creating a shield of chemical-fog, the first one that was closest dropped down and started trying to rub his eyes/face with his paws, then the other one came at me, and retreated yelping like crazy as soon as he got a mouth-full of it..
The other one still being dis-orientated, was facing away from me, got a size 11 boot up his back side so hard, I flipped him over into a barrel roll !!

I would agree with others here though, Bear-spray is some nasty stuff !! and probably more designed for an aggressive animal attacking ?

Bobson
August 22, 2013, 03:00 PM
When I was hit with pepper spray to get qualified to use it, my experience was similar to the OP's. It didn't stop or hinder me from completing basic tasks that require vision and coordination, and I had no trouble handcuffing a suspect. Then when I washed it off with a hose and waited for it to dry, the pain kicked in - big time. Worst pain I've ever felt in my life.

Its activated by water. Before then, it doesn't seem to do much (this is based on my personal experience). Carry pepper spray and a water gun.

rcmodel
August 22, 2013, 03:02 PM
My sons Lab mix just loves Habanero hot sauce!!

The boy dropped a pint bottle of it on the kitchen floor and it broke.

His dog lapped it all up, and split his tongue open on a piece of broken glass.

rc

Hanzo581
August 22, 2013, 03:16 PM
"Was it windy", "did you get it in their face or eyes", "add water to it to make it work"...

Statement like these make me wonder...do conditions need to be perfect for this stuff to work?

I've never sprayed or been sprayed but the wife has one on her keychain and I'd like to think it is better than nothing.

kBob
August 22, 2013, 03:45 PM
Labs have about the highest pain threshold of any breed. I know the sheppard//rotty /Dobbie folk smay find that hard to believe but pain like chocker collars seldom do much to labs. I have sen one respond to a tap with a cattle prod meant to move bulls with by coming up the shaft trying to eat the user.

When a Lab I owned decided to dig up our well pump I tried all the traditional stuff......he ate the moth balls, he dug up and ripped up the chicken wire and finally I decided to spray the ground with pepper spray to make him uncomfortable digging there with the idea that I would do so every morning and evening until he found something else to molest. I put on a gas mask and went out and sprayed the area and he walked up, tail wagging. He looked at where I had been spraying and actually licked the grass. So I sprayed the mist I the air between us. He made play motions and snapped at the air. I then sprayed him in the face and he began dancing around in play mode so I dosed him again. Still a happy puppy so I figured the spray was out of date or over rated.

I took off the gas mask.......and could not breathe and had difficulty seeing and tripped over my own feet and began crawling towards the house trying to scream for my wife. She came to the back door saw me, the mask, the dog.....who now had the spray can in his mouth..... and closed the door on me!

Do not expect OC spray to work on labs and believe the OPs story.

-kBob

Sapper771
August 22, 2013, 03:54 PM
Freeze +P (OC/CS).

A coked up woman pulled a 10" dagger and tried to stab me one night. It dropped her instantly.

The thing about pepper spray is that it isnt effective against everyone/everything. Some actually have a resistance to it. I have seen it used against several violent, mentally impaired individuals with little to no effect. I have used it to deter dogs in the past by spraying it on the ground in front of them. Once they get a whif of the CS gas, they usually back off.

You do need to watch the wind when using it, or you will get a dose too. It has to be applied to the face, which can be difficult.

It is an excellent tool to have, but I dont recommend that it be the only one in your "box".

glistam
August 22, 2013, 04:17 PM
Capsaicin, the active ingredient in pepper spray, activates the TRPV1 receptor, in the case of pepper spray it seriously over-stimulates it. Not everything has the same number or type of TRPV1 receptor. Receptors in birds for example have no activation from capsaicin, so they can eat pepper seeds and don't feel a thing. It's conceivable (I can't find a solid source) that dogs have fewer receptor sites, that their fur simply blocks them or that even certain breeds have greatly reduced receptor sensitivity. I've also heard and seen fairly convincing evidence that some humans have reduced sensitivity, some to an extreme degree (one man described the sensation of eating habanero to me as "chewing on a wax candle.")

This may explain the varied reactions and some of you probably might have used "mixed" sprays that contain both capsaicin and other irritants like CS or phenacyl chloride.

Also interesting fact, certain drugs or chemicals are TRPV1 antagonists (they counter-act or nullify it). This is why druggies sometimes don't react when sprayed.

tnxdshooter
August 22, 2013, 05:16 PM
Capsaicin, the active ingredient in pepper spray, activates the TRPV1 receptor, in the case of pepper spray it seriously over-stimulates it. Not everything has the same number or type of TRPV1 receptor. Receptors in birds for example have no activation from capsaicin, so they can eat pepper seeds and don't feel a thing. It's conceivable (I can't find a solid source) that dogs have fewer receptor sites, that their fur simply blocks them or that even certain breeds have greatly reduced receptor sensitivity. I've also heard and seen fairly convincing evidence that some humans have reduced sensitivity, some to an extreme degree (one man described the sensation of eating habanero to me as "chewing on a wax candle.")

This may explain the varied reactions and some of you probably might have used "mixed" sprays that contain both capsaicin and other irritants like CS or phenacyl chloride.

Also interesting fact, certain drugs or chemicals are TRPV1 antagonists (they counter-act or nullify it). This us why druggies sometimes don't react when sprayed.

I know at work we use sabre red mk4. We aren't allowed to use the pepper spray tear gas mixture anymore because suspects have been known to die from it.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Old Guy
August 22, 2013, 05:20 PM
The story of OC Spray is up and down.

Inadvertent use, is the best.

I had a good Buddy, in Toronto, he was going to NY City by Train, with his young Daughter.

He borrowed a can of OC off me. Showed him how to use it, all the do's and don'ts, (did I say he was a bit of a klutz, Lawyer, don't you know.

The morning he was going my phone rang, "Gasp/choke/cough" repeated over and over.

"Phil" is that you? Yes, gasp choke.

Told him how to wash his face in running, tepid water.

The story/

Phil, sat on bed, looking at OC container, turned it left, turned it right. Finger on button, and depressed it! Directly up his nostril! And with a huge gasp! Inhaled! Then my phone call, after availing him self of my first aid advice, and starting to breath! His Wife came out of the Bedroom, to the top of the stairs, she was in bed.

"Phil, I am having a heart attack!" Cough/splutter and sneeze.

Hilarious!

Deltaboy
August 22, 2013, 11:02 PM
Brass headed canes work and I am getting to old to play with them so I Don't.

herrwalther
August 23, 2013, 10:13 AM
I intentionally sprayed myself in the face with an expired can of pepper spray an ex-fiance of mine had. Can't recall the brand but it didn't affect me like the NBC certification. Just coughed a little bit. But it was expired.

Double_J
August 23, 2013, 10:43 AM
I used OC a few times when I was a security guard years ago. I was sprayed with it unintentionally one night (my brother got my can and sprayed me as a "joke"), I have also been sprayed for certification. I can tell you it hurt me pretty good the first time, but after that I knew what to expect and it did not bother me at bad. I have also seen people who go useless after getting hit by it. A dear friend of mine was a deputy U.S. Marshal for most of his professional career and he had no resistance to OC, he would be CRIPPLED by the spray after certification. I also have a friend who laughs at the extreme chilies that are out there, but he is a chili-head who eats habaneros like they are candy. Not everyone is affected by the spray the same way, so take that into account.

When it comes to dogs, all I can say is Labs have hearts of gold, heads of stone, and stomachs of iron. You can not persuade them with pain as it is all a game for them. My brother and I found this out the hard way when he got his lab puppy. I have seen pit-bulls, rottweilers, german sheppards, and other "tough" dogs get broken easily by a strong will and tough training, but the labs think of it as a big game.

I would personally see about getting fox labs OC, or Freeze plus P if you can. Those two have a recorded heat content that will get someones attention. I can also say a good axe handle or stick will help with the dogs when all else fails.

ugaarguy
August 23, 2013, 01:06 PM
Dogs are far more sensitive to ammonia than to OC. They may not like the smell of CS, but their alkali tears & mucous make CS all but useless on them.

Bikewer
August 23, 2013, 01:42 PM
We issue the Sabre Red law enforcement formulation... I've had uniformly good results with it. In every case, the naughty person quit doing what they were doing and gave up.
I have not used the stuff on dogs.
One of our sergeants worked for the city police, and they did regular raids on drug houses that frequently kept vicious dogs on the premisis
He said that had routinely used pepper spray on these and that the dogs would usually crawl under a table and just lay there....

The stuff does have an expiration date.. From the poor spray performance I'd suspect that was the case..

alsask
August 23, 2013, 10:37 PM
I heard a story a few months ago about a fellow hiking in the mountains in Alberta. He passed a group of what he thought were either German or Swiss tourists. They had bells strung all over them and each had a can of bear spray in a holster. The area is known for grizzlies.

He had gone a few yards past them, in the opposite direction, when he heard yelling and a bunch of commotion. He looks back and they are pointing at a bear that is at least a hundred yards away. All at once they unholster their bear spray and BEGIN SPRAYING EACH OTHER!! Of course they begin screaming and moaning. Some other tourists helped them down off the mountain. The guy wished he had a camera, it was the funniest thing he ever saw.

Bikewer
August 24, 2013, 01:48 PM
Maybe they thought it worked like bug repellent....

Speedo66
August 24, 2013, 07:44 PM
I was exposed, way too mild a term, like everyone else in the military at the time, to CN and CS tear gas.

It certainly got your attention, along with your breathing apparatus, your running nose, your burning eyes, and your drooling mouth.

Never want to be "exposed" to that again. I have a feeling that stuff might work.

Eldraque
August 24, 2013, 08:08 PM
Lol so much myth in this thread. GO SPRAY YOURSELF with some OC spray and then come back and tell us if it works or not

Black Butte
August 24, 2013, 11:23 PM
Spray yourself in the face and report back.

This!

REDMASTA
August 25, 2013, 04:41 AM
Lol so much myth in this thread. GO SPRAY YOURSELF with some OC spray and then come back and tell us if it works or not

It works but there are still plenty of instances where the person is pissed off and determined enough to push through it. Not going to post the video as its too graphic but the person OC'ed was still able to draw a weapon and shoot the officer who sprayed him.

Its better than nothing and will probably work on most people but its not 100%.

Not suprised if it doesn't work that well on dogs either to be honest given their high pain tolerance. Scaring them off with a big stick, shovel, etc... seems like a better option.

BLB68
August 25, 2013, 07:51 PM
Spray yourself in the face and report back.

Been sprayed with OC, CS and OC/CS combined.

Now, you may have the experience of having seen any or all of those instantly incapacitate every single person hit with them.

That doesn't mean it's 100% effective. That'd be like trying to prove a negative.

But I've had the experience of NOT being stopped by them. That's plenty of evidence that they're not 100% effective. The last time I was sprayed, I took the can off of the user and beat him about the head and shoulders vigorously. I didn't notice the pain until the incident was over, and watery eyes don't impair your vision enough to prevent you from fighting.

Does it work most of the time? Sure. But be ready in case it doesn't.

340PD
August 29, 2013, 02:20 PM
Not all dogs will be affected by pepper spray regardless of brand. Carry an asp if dogs are of concern.

Gord
August 29, 2013, 02:51 PM
Dogs are far more sensitive to ammonia than to OC.

So the solution is to aim for the cat instead? :evil:

Louca
August 29, 2013, 04:02 PM
Dogs are far more sensitive to ammonia than to OC. They may not like the smell of CS, but their alkali tears & mucous make CS all but useless on them.
Ah yes, I was waiting to see if someone mentioned ammonia water. I can confirm it is VERY powerful on dogs.

Lou

glistam
August 29, 2013, 04:26 PM
Ah yes, I was waiting to see if someone mentioned ammonia water. I can confirm it is VERY powerful on dogs.

Wouldn't it blind the dog permanently?

BLB68
August 30, 2013, 09:45 PM
The idea is to use a very small concentration of ammonia. Doesn't take much.

22-rimfire
August 30, 2013, 11:36 PM
Interesting thread. I would never have guessed that pepper spray would not be effective on dogs.

jeepnik
September 1, 2013, 01:59 PM
Garden hose. Dogs hate water!

Seriously, having been in training to use OC spray, and been sprayed myself, it's a debilitating miserable experience. I suspect you didn't get a 'hit' on the dogs.
Try that on the standard poodle I had as a kid, and you'd have wished your garden hose was a flame thrower. Well, you might have thought that "after" he finished chewing on you.

Some dogs like water and have no fear of a hose.

I wonder why the OP didn't just call animal control? That or the flat of a long handled shovel upside the head. Both will work, one's faster and more effective, the other is slower and more politically correct. You figure out which is which.

whughett
September 1, 2013, 04:03 PM
This thread is a hoot. I am sitting in the chair peeing my shorts on some of these posts. First thread I have read front to back. :cool:

clamman
September 6, 2013, 09:27 AM
Wasp spray will stop a dog in his tracks!

Pilot
September 15, 2013, 09:32 PM
Try Snausages. Dogs love them. You throw them in the opposite direction you want to go, and then slowly walk away.

http://snausages.com/

JERRY
September 15, 2013, 09:48 PM
Most OC is just Texas Pete in a spray to me. I've used so much of it I think I might have developed a taste for it... all the dogs I ever sprayed with it just rolled around on the ground plowing the grass with their noses.... then they get up and sneeze a little...

OC is not the paralyzing spray gun magazines make it out to be, its more of a nuisance.

Tony_the_tiger
September 15, 2013, 10:15 PM
Most would agree that lead spray around 125 - 300 grains would be more effective on an aggressive human or animal that jeopardizes your life through its behavior. Dogs can be very, very scary. That said, If I was in a position of safety would advise just calling animal control.

Zardaia
September 15, 2013, 10:17 PM
I have sprayed people and been sprayed. It certainly worked in my experiences. It is not 100%, though. Some people are hardly affected. I have seen training videos of those few but haven't encountered one yet.
I have. Worked detainee ops and some of them were barely phased by the stuff. Having been sprayed myself, yeah it's miserable and will (generally) degrade performance but ultimatly it's just an irritant and may or may not stop somone. I don't put too much stock in it but I will say it's persistant, took alot longer to wear off than the NBC gas chamber did. Best I've seen was a whole fogger can pop off in the heat inside a guard tower (or so the idiot claimed), he was hating life.

jon_in_wv
September 15, 2013, 10:17 PM
I have seen a lot of pepper spray used in a correctional environment to see that it a very good and effective tool. For private use I think its use in animal control is a great idea. i do NOT like it as a defensive tool.

HiVelocity
September 18, 2013, 09:43 AM
Folks,

As a retired police officer, I've used a few cans of pepper spray in my tenure.

The one thing I learned, is that pepper spray only works under ideal circumstances. Indoors, probably not much draft, unless the air conditioning is on or a room fan is on, otherwise, Pepper spray is useless. Ladies, the little pepper spray on your key ring with your car keys, is USELESS. You would be better off throwing it at an attacker.

A better, more efficient method, is to buy a large can of wasp/hornet spray. Made for outdoors, very effective, 12-20 foot reach, and lethal as pepper spray. I know, sounds ridiculous, but it works. If you're backpacking and need to start a fire Asap, use the wasp spray and spray a short burst into your firewood, then pass a flame near the stream.........flame on! Not bad for $7.50!

Food for thought,

HV

wgaynor
September 18, 2013, 11:50 AM
Using Hornet/Wasp spray against an attacker is illegal. Against a dog? Might be illegal also.

Now, if it came down to a life or death scenario and that's all I had, then goferit.

Arkansas Paul
September 18, 2013, 12:11 PM
Two dogs (lab mixes I think) came charging after me in my garage, barking, with their hackles raised.

Pepper spray be damned. If this happens in my garage, the Sig is coming out.

I actually have had good experience though with pepper spray. I read electric meters for a little while and that's all I had. The few times I had to use it, it did the trick. I don't remember the brand though. And the stream wasn't weak at all. I wonder if you had defective can that wouldn't spray right.

rodwha
September 18, 2013, 12:12 PM
Are the sprays that LEO and correctional officers use/carry any better for outdoors use?

Maybe no larger than wasp spray, yet still a bit too large to just carry around, but likely not illegal (I would think) would be bear spray.

I would still think that a standard spray in the eyes would likely help tremendously. As I'd much prefer not to have to bring severe bodily harm to anyone, though I certainly will if given no choice, would like it as an option. And I do carry pepper spray, though I ought to replace it as it's about 5 years old, but has no expiration date.

If you enjoyed reading about "My first use of pepper spray" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!