Irons...who uses 'em?


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armoredman
August 22, 2013, 08:15 PM
I'll admit, I use optics on my HD rifle, nothing special, (budget wouldn't allow it), but the Bushnell TSR-25 red dot seems to work just fine on my reliable and dependable SA vz-58.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/vz-58%20targets%20and%20pics/vz58sightininTRS25.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/vz-58%20targets%20and%20pics/vz58sightininTRS25.jpg.html)

But when it comes to sights for walking bad country, I seem to be stuck in the iron age. CZ 527 CSR.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527CSRontheline_zps2e2a4c33.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/527/527CSRontheline_zps2e2a4c33.jpg.html)

I took this rifle to the range today, and realized I had left my shooting stool and rest at home. Dagnabbit. So I figured to practice my off hand shooting, and set up Thugly the steel target at 100 yards. From a standing position I hit it about 90-95% of the time. I heard some muttering nearby, and some of the crowd there, shooting benched rifles, (one with a Lead Sled), with scopes that could double as observatories were also shooting at 100 yards...and for some reason what I was doing seemed to offend them. Thugly isn't a tiny little target - he's 8.9 inches by 14.5 inches, a 1/2 scale IDPA, so it wasn't like I was showing up their tiny little groups, (my "groups" were about 7 inches at 100 yards!), but I heard a few of them say, "Iron sights, can you believe he's using iron sights like that!"
Is that so weird? Heck, you want weird, here's the load I was using,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/casting%20stuff/NOE129bestload_zps8306c453.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/casting%20stuff/NOE129bestload_zps8306c453.jpg.html)

I guess the combination of the odd looking rifleand the fact that I was using handloaded CAST bullet loads in such a "common" caliber as 7.62x39mm threw everyone off, but one guy rose to the challenge, such as it was, put away the heavy bench rest rifle, stood up and joined me with a NICE 22lr target rifle and the smallest steel chicken I have ever seen at 100 yards. He hit it, too. I couldn't. :)
So, rifle shooters, do you practice with irons, or is it all optics nowadays, and Neanderthals like me should grunt our way back into the caves?

BTW, completely off topic, the guy who built that stock seen on the 527CSR above got to try the brand new CZ P-09 today, and for a guy firmly wedded to steel and wood, he loved the big poly framed Czech pistol, said it would make a great carry gun.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CZ%20P-09/LarrywithP-092_zps47fb2a2d.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/CZ%20P-09/LarrywithP-092_zps47fb2a2d.jpg.html)


BTW, I realize that there are MANY shooters here that could out shoot me on any Sunday. What the heck, it was a fun morning. :)

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YZ
August 22, 2013, 08:24 PM
By using the irons you eliminated the perceived muzzle trembling. You were able to better concentrate on the front sight, instead of trying to steady the rifle.

When the shakes are amplified by the glass, it is intuitive to try to suppress them. That often results in distraction, fatigue, and a lower score.

Yarddog
August 22, 2013, 08:26 PM
aemoredman,
I'm lucky to see a 100 yard with iron sights. I think that's good shooting, 7" groups offhand not bad to me ; ) PS When I was younger & eyes were better mabey
Y/D

TexasPatriot.308
August 22, 2013, 08:29 PM
both my M1As I use only irons and will always, also AR10s, the way the military taught me 41 years ago.

newglockguy
August 22, 2013, 08:30 PM
I make it a point to practice with my irons every time I go out. It's a good skill to have. I know there are several reliable optics out there but it doesn't hurt to practice with them in case of some sort of malfunction. As to the guys muttering around you, who cares?

browningguy
August 22, 2013, 08:36 PM
I think I only have one rifle now (that I shoot regularly) with iron sights only and it's an 1891 Mauser. Everything else has optics, even my HK USC, I just seem to be more accurate and faster with optics than without.

back40
August 22, 2013, 08:39 PM
i like stories like this...

i've been shooting primarily irons with my GSR and my 10/22TD lately. i've been running through unsupported field positions, using a sling, and focusing on fundamentals.

i don't have any sort of rest, so even for load development and shooting for groups i always shoot from a bipod and a rear bag. lately i've found that both myself and my groups prefer shooting from prone versus shooting from a bench. it's just what works for me.

i think people these days get too caught up with optics and forget to learn to run irons well. i like quality optics as much as the next guy, and have my fair share, but i'm a firm believer in being capable of shooting irons well. the only way to do that is to practice...often.

Tommygunn
August 22, 2013, 08:40 PM
I have optics on my Remington 700, AR, Sig 556 and 556R but they also have iron sights (except the Sig 556R darn it Sig!). I have a number of other rifles, lever action, and shotties that all have iron sights.
Despite optics of whatever type, I have always felt that rifles without sights were incomplete. I know there's people who disagree with that --that's fine. "To each his own," as the saying goes.

YZ
August 22, 2013, 08:44 PM
Fix a bayonet Tommy :D

Zoogster
August 22, 2013, 08:46 PM
I use irons often. I have some metal back up irons that hold a better zero than I can hit with them, so I will leave those flipped up and use them quite often.
I started because there was few ranges around, and most with any decent rifle distances required a yearly membership I didn't want to pay at the time. Or travelling hours into remote areas that allow shooting.
They closed down the free outdoor areas nearby. The indoor ranges had about 25 yard distances.
25 yards with optics on a centerfire rifle paying between 50 cents and $1 per shot, is not my idea of enjoyable recreation.
But I could use the irons and still have some fun.

I like back up irons in case you lose your optic, and they become critical on rifles with higher magnification scopes, acting as a short range sighting option.
I enjoy a rifle with only irons and actually find some just as good as an optic at close range. I have a pair of HK type sights that you line the circles up for close range or use the posts at longer range that I think works better than many cheap optics. The posts are accurate for quite a distance, well beyond what I can do with them. You can set the posts up for longer distances and rely on the circles for short and have long and short range in a small little package.
Paint portions of them well with a couple bright contrasting fingernail polishes and they work great. They are sleak and small and because I am using them as 'backups' or as my short range option with large magnification scopes I actually can tell myself it is a valuable skill to maintain, not inferior technology. But I only tell myself they are backups, because lately they seem to be my primaries.

I also use some airguns for plinking and pest control, and they are almost exclusively iron sighted.

stan rose
August 22, 2013, 08:58 PM
I use peep sights almost exclusively.

MaterDei
August 22, 2013, 08:58 PM
I shoot primarily with irons but admit that I shoot better with glass. :)

hipoint
August 22, 2013, 09:03 PM
I just can't bring myself to put glass on my levergun, I keep wanting to but can't... haha, I even bought mounts one day for it!

I had a mishap while going on an actual hunt one day (that's strange for me to do since I own a farm with deer permits). I fell going down a ramp I have coming off my porch, landed on the scope of my remington 700 .30-06. Of course that's the morning I saw a big buck, shot twice before he figured out what was happening. Was about 130 yards away, saw some gore, tracked the deer all day on thanksgiving coming in only after it got dark without finding my deer. There was still just enough light to test the rifle, shot at a target and was about 18 inches low and right at 50 yards... Best guess is I gutshot the deer and felt terrible about it.

The point of that story is from now on, if I have a scoped rifle, I can never trust it after a drop or a fall (which is pretty easy to do in these mountains). If I have a smoothbore scope only gun, after a fall I will declare it "hunt over" and go back. But if I have irons, i can just remove the scope and keep on going. Now I mostly use my .30-30 for my "walk about gun" and have since sold the remmy, but my browning a-bolt is getting some irons on it before I take it out hunting again so I don't have to abandon a hunt. The browning mostly stays in it's case in the closet, but it's the rifle I take when I actually "go hunting" rather than patrolling the farm. IMO, iron sights are a must to have on any hunting rifle, just so you can remove your scope and keep on going. I like having 2 options!

edit *** smooth barrel, NOT smoothbore haha**

ColtPythonElite
August 22, 2013, 09:03 PM
I have rifles with both peeps and rear ghost rings. Generally, if it can be seen, it can be hit.

Shooting target rifles at NRA targets is fun. You can shoot groups as tight as a guy using a scope.

BullfrogKen
August 22, 2013, 09:23 PM
Since optics aren't permitted in Service Rifle matches, I use irons often.


It does amaze me when people disbelieve what iron sights are capable of. There were competitors out just the other week at Camp Perry shooting the 1,000 yard matches with iron-sighted rifles.

I'll admit there's a world of difference between a good set of true match sights, and the military post-and-aperture. But those who put in the effort, and have eyes young enough to do it, can hang right in there on the line shooting with the ones using a scope.



In this famous picture Gunny (then just a lowly Corporal) Hathcock is seen receiving recognition for winning the Wimbledon Cup. Pictured next to him is SSgt Jim Laughland being recognized for the Farr Trophy.


http://www.odcmp.co/images/web_images/carlos65.gif


What's the Farr Trophy?

Glad you asked. The Farr Trophy is a 1,000 yard match shot concurrently, meaning side by side on the line, but entered separately from the Wimbledon. The Wimbledon is an any rifle/ any sight contest, and those using a scoped rifle are only eligible for the Wimbledon. They cannot win the Farr Trophy.

Only Service Rifle shooters are eligible for the Farr. And if one happens to place as the top shooter overall, including compared to those shooting in the any/any category, he wins both the Farr and the Wimbledon. There are shooters firing the 1,000 yard match with a service rifle who have beat scoped rifle shooters to win both.

Jim Laughland was three points behind Gunny Hathcock that day.

http://www.odcmp.co/services/competitions/photos/wimbledon.htm


If you look at the history between the two matches, you'll see some years where service rifle shooters and any/any match rifle shooters were only separated by a few Xs (or Vs in the case of the old Long Range targets).

Farr Trophy history -
http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/nat-trophy/tro-073.pdf

Wimbledon Cup history -
http://compete.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/nat-trophy/tro-105.pdf


The gap has widened between the two since the 70's, but I think that's more a function of better rifle and scope technology combined with not being tied to a standard service rifle caliber in the any/any match. Some of the cartridges designed specifically for LR competitions have taken what is a competitive LR score to an entirely new level.

ricebasher302
August 22, 2013, 09:28 PM
When elk hunting in heavily timbered areas, I opt for my aperture sighted lever action. It works beautifully. Aperture > Buckhorn IMHO.

When still hunting in thick cover for deer, the same rifle works pretty well.

tubeshooter
August 22, 2013, 09:28 PM
I have always been an iron sights person. Right now I only have one rifle with no irons - and one of my first orders of business is to trade it in on a very similar model that does.


That being said, up until recently none of the calibers I have dabbled in have been what I call "scope justified". You can get by with .30-30, pistol calibers and .22lr (among others) just fine without scopes, especially if you're just plinking. One caveat; I do love peep sights.

Now that I have picked up a .223 and .243, those are definitely what I consider "scope justified" at longer ranges. I don't realistically expect much luck with any centerfire caliber for my part past about 150 yards or so with irons, and I would consider myself an average shooter - nothing special, for sure. And these eyes aren't getting any younger.

GBExpat
August 22, 2013, 09:30 PM
I have always preferred to shoot over irons and only very rarely use alternatives.

Dr.Rob
August 22, 2013, 09:36 PM
I like semi buckhorn sights ala Marlin. I still prefer them to peep sights/ghost rings for snap shooting. For distance and slow fire rifle matches I think those GI peep sights are great.

I'd like to shoot another slow fire type high power match with my Colt 6920, scoped or not. First time I tried it was with a 1903A3 and some dodgy Russian ammo. I was having trouble even getting on PAPER much less make accurate 10 ring type shots.

bozzman3
August 22, 2013, 10:04 PM
Its a sin to use anything but irons on a M1A!

YZ
August 22, 2013, 10:19 PM
I've never seen an m1 scoped, but we are human. We will do things to show they can be done. Or else there wouldn't be any drilled and tapped Colt Pythons with pearl grips.

Sergei Mosin
August 22, 2013, 10:32 PM
I have one scoped rifle. It's a 1943 M91/30 PU sniper. The rest are all irons, all the way.

highpower
August 22, 2013, 11:25 PM
My M70 Winchester is the only rifle I own that has a scope. I do have a AR15 that has a red dot, but honestly, it just sits in the back of the safe.

All the rifles (and handguns) that I am currently shooting have iron sights. That includes two M1A's, an M1 Garand and a couple of 1903 Springfields. I hate shooting off of a bench and and I shake too much to shoot a scope practically any other way:(.

Irons just work better for me in positions that I would shoot from in the field.

Moparnut
August 22, 2013, 11:33 PM
I really enjoy shooting with iron sights. I even have a set of see through mounts on my 30-30. I seem to concentrate a lot more with irons.

goon
August 22, 2013, 11:37 PM
I shoot a lot with iron sights. My favorite rifle to shoot ever is my CZ-452 with iron sights. I shoot it at balloons, clay pigeons, clay pigeon chunks, and targets at 100 yards and usually do better with it than I can do with any centerfire.

Fred_G
August 22, 2013, 11:51 PM
All mine are iron. When I can afford to set one up with optics, I will have one. Or two. :D

chicharrones
August 23, 2013, 12:34 AM
All my guns have open sights, and the aperture sights are my preference. Now a few of them also have some sort of optic now, but I still shoot open sights for the most part.

The only downside is in the last few years my right eye (shooting eye) has gone a bit fuzzy and I have to use my left eye if trying precise pistol shots. For rifles, I usually can clear a few magazines before my right eye goes fuzzy enough to double the width of the front sight.

So, optics are definitely a part of my future shooting, without doubt.

ricebasher302
August 23, 2013, 12:48 AM
I still prefer them to peep sights/ghost rings for snap shooting.

I'm in no way critical of this opinion, but to me, there is a HUGE advantage (real or perceived) to a medium or large aperture compared to a buckhorn for "snap shooting." Having used them to stalk/kill elk in the timber, I feel like I've some basis for this preference. I had to read the above quote a couple of times to make sure I read it right.

In my mind an aperture sight falls right between a traditional buckhorn (or variant) and a scope for ease of use, and in certain specific circumstances, the aperture wins. Of course I have good eyesight, which certainly plays a significant role.

Everyone's different though, and I'm thankful.

arspeukinen
August 23, 2013, 03:25 AM
I shoot irons better offhand. With scope, the perceived shake is bad.
From prone or bench optics are more accurate.

A big factor is price, looks and comfort. No optics is smaller and lighter and more durable than with optics. Shooting is - for me - usually more fun with irons. I use optics when hunting moose or competiting (rules permitting). It is a sad thing that with age, eyes get progressively slower and more inaccurate. I will try to enjoy irons while I still can.

okiewita40
August 23, 2013, 05:11 AM
I have only owned and shot 1 weapon in my life that had an optic on it. It was a 10/22. I guess I learned to shoot the hard way. That's not bad since I have been hunting for the last 35 years.

Ignition Override
August 23, 2013, 05:18 AM
All fourteen rifles have Only irons. I've never owned a scope, and would never consider doing permanent alterations on them.
Most are milsurps: a Garand, two FR8s, six Enfields, two Romanian M-69 Trainers (mil. or civilian?), and a Yugo Mauser. The first nine listed have rear aperture sights.

Even the Norinco SKS has the better version of the Tech Sight. What an improvement!

30 dirty 30's
August 23, 2013, 06:22 AM
I shoot irons and scopes. I enjoy shooting more with irons, especially offhand and practical/tactical type stuff. When you can hold groups with irons on small targets a 100 yards away, suddenly settling in behind a scoped rifle looking at stuff 3 or 4 or 500 yards away doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore. It's a great skill to practice, not for redundancy of sighting systems, but just because it simply makes you a better shooter.

briansmithwins
August 23, 2013, 06:59 AM
I've run irons a few times at our local rifle match. It's nice to practice basics and irons are about as basic as it gets.

Don't kid yourself though, optics get you hits faster than irons, everything else being equal. Can a good shooter with irons beat a bad shooter with glass? Sure. But give that good shooter good optics and he'll get hits even faster.

BSW

2@low8
August 23, 2013, 08:15 AM
I have my AR-15s set up with a red dot scope that I can see my iron sights through it in the event the red dot fails.

I practice with both every time I take them to the range.

Shanghai McCoy
August 23, 2013, 09:16 AM
All my muzzleloaders have iron sights as do my Marlin lever actions, both ghost ring peeps, the Winchester 94 in 32 Special (factory open),the trapdoor carbine and the Sharps 45/70 (Axtel peep).
With the right pair of glasses on I can even use them to shoot with...;)

tomrkba
August 23, 2013, 09:52 AM
There are definite benefits to optics with the prime reasons being: target location and identification, speed of target acquistion, and seeing hits/misses at distance. Optics can assist those with eye problems. I was in the market for a good 1-4x variable optic for my AR-15 when I attended training last year with F2S Consulting (I have trained with optics in the past). I used a Troy rear sight and the gun's standard front sight. I scored hits out to 300 yards, but locating the targets was difficult. I could not find black steel plates and was slow on the white ones. The red dot optics really shine during rapid fire at 25 yards or less; variable can be slightly slower. I was not able to keep up and did not make time on those exercises.

All fourteen rifles have Only irons. I've never owned a scope, and would never consider doing permanent alterations on them.
Most are milsurps: a Garand, two FR8s, six Enfields, two Romanian M-69 Trainers (mil. or civilian?), and a Yugo Mauser. The first nine listed have rear aperture sights.

A very good friend of mine was adamantly "anti-optic" because he "didn't see the need." ONE shot (and hit) at 300 yards during a 3 Gun match convinced him otherwise. He couldn't even see the white plate at 300 with iron sights and couldn't make out gray metal/black targets at 150 yards.

henschman
August 23, 2013, 10:44 AM
A scope doesn't help you shoot better... it just helps you see the target better. If I'm shooting nice well-defined targets on the range with contrasting colors at known distances, my accuracy with irons is just about as good as with optics out to 600 yards or so. However, most of my rifles are intended for 2A purposes... i.e. defense of liberty. If it's time to go 2A, you are not likely to get the kind of shot you have on a range.

A scope is a huge help for target detection, and is faster to put rounds on target with. It is also easier to range targets at unknown distances... A LOT easier if you have a reticle designed for ranging. When it comes to my 2A-purpose rifles, only the long range precision ones have optics only. Everything else has irons as well as optics, with the optics being easily removable if they to TU. Of course that's not even necessary on the AR with co-witnessed Aimpoint... if the dot goes out, just flip up the rear, line up your sights through the dead tube, and carry on. Just one of several reasons I really like that setup.

henschman
August 23, 2013, 12:53 PM
The limitations of aperture sights became very apparent to me this July when I helped organize and competed in a Run 'n Gun event. I was going to run it with my scoped AR, but didn't get a chance to get it zeroed and ran it with my iron sighted M1 instead. I was one of the last to run, and ended up finishing up almost at dusk. One of the stages required hitting an 18-20" plate at 400 yards. I had already ran about 2 miles when I hit that stage. The plate was painted red. It was sitting in red dirt, in the shade, with the sun setting behind it, and it was starting to get dark. I couldn't see the plate through that aperture to save my life. I was having to pop my head up to try to see it, then come back down on my sights and guess where it was and work that area over. I had 1:30 to get 3 hits, and used up all my time without getting one. The next course of fire involved advancing downrange and getting 2 hits from each of 4 positions, from 300 to 200 yards, in 5 minutes. I STILL couldn't see the target at 300 yards, and used up most of my time there. I didn't end up completing that course of fire in time either.

I know if I had my scope, I would have been able to see the target no problem. Hell, I probably would have done better with notch sights. I almost certainly would have done better with an Aimpoint.

It isn't my vision... I have 20/15. And a man-sized target at 400 yards is no problem for me with that rifle when I can easily see the target... but life isn't always that accommodating. That's why I have optics on all my serious use rifles.

Cosmoline
August 23, 2013, 01:18 PM
I really don't like scopes. I've tried them on a number of rifles over the years, but prefer irons. Even as my eyes have gotten older I still shoot better with irons. There's a lot more involved in good shooting than just seeing the target. That sounds silly, but it's true. You don't have to be able to clearly see your target area to hit it.

chicharrones
August 23, 2013, 01:27 PM
The limitations of aperture sights became very apparent to me this July when I helped organize and competed in a Run 'n Gun event. I was going to run it with my scoped AR, but didn't get a chance to get it zeroed and ran it with my iron sighted M1 instead.

Too bad that M1 doesn't have a large/small aperture flip sight. Those large apertures help in low light. Although at 300 or 400 yards, I'd have real problems myself.

RFMan
August 23, 2013, 02:15 PM
Sounds fine to me! Irons, dots, scopes...depends on what I'm doing.

Irons: 2x M1, Marlin 336, 2x AR-15, Marlin 795, Ruger 10/22
Red dot: AR-15
Scope: AR-15, 2x Ruger 10/22, Marlin 60, Remington 700 ADL

I guess in my stable, the irons beat red dots + scopes combined...but I like all of 'em.

PonyKiller
August 23, 2013, 02:57 PM
I like the peep sight on my, win 94 30-30. I find it easy and intuitive like a shotgun rib and bead. when at the 50 yd range my friends and I would do the golf course and stuff with the .22s and .17 hmr then set up a target each to take a few shots each standing offhand, at either a zombie or cobra commander. 3 shots ten secs with the open sight 30-30. kinda bonus points for the round.

loose noose
August 23, 2013, 03:35 PM
I definitely prefer the standard peep sight on my AR-15, m-4 carbine, and my Ruger .44 mag carbine, and the semi buckhorn on my 44-40. I also like the tang sights on my Sharps 45-70, and also on my Marlin Cowboy 30-30, however, as my eyes aint what they used to be I prefer scopes on all my other rifles.

Simon_Edmondson
August 23, 2013, 03:46 PM
The question begs, did you enjoy your day more or less than if you hadn't forgotten your other gear?

I have all sorts of stuff, but the irons on my CZ550 in .375 H&H are my favourite by far, I shoot cast too in reduced loads and just plinking steel is a really fun day, the only downer is looking at all the empty brass I have to reload! :)

I know Benchrest is the pinnacle of accuracy shooting, but man, I would die of boredom doing that for more than an hour.

YZ
August 23, 2013, 04:04 PM
Honestly, it is more satisfying to hit the target in the iron sights. Magnifying optics have always felt like cheating a little. Close to midrange anyway. After what Annie Oakley did with that lever action, we ought to be embarrassed by using glass within 100 yards. Just saying.

Pete D.
August 23, 2013, 04:16 PM
Back to basics. I have even returned to irons on my Bullseye guns.
Last time out with my AR......a Colt HBar with a NM aperture an the standard post front, I shot this at 100 yards from prone position. It is not great but it is about as good as I do.
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/FA6BC535-E103-402C-8AE8-39E4D3DFC932-1286-000001CB5BD7D510.jpg (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/PeteDoyle/media/FA6BC535-E103-402C-8AE8-39E4D3DFC932-1286-000001CB5BD7D510.jpg.html)

cat_IT_guy
August 23, 2013, 04:19 PM
I enjoy optics as well as irons. Irons, I think, take more practice and as such are much more satisfying.

PJSprog
August 23, 2013, 04:19 PM
My .22LR & .22WMR Savage bolt rifles have scopes. All the others are military and have the stock iron sights. I honestly prefer irons over glass, but my eyes just don't see the head of a squirrel or rabbit as well as they used to. (geez, that makes me sound old or something)

Jason_W
August 23, 2013, 06:01 PM
I'm decent with aperture sights, but I'm embarrassingly bad with more traditional irons.

It's probably due to the fact that my first rifle (age 8) was a Savage single shot .22 with a peep sight.

Nwflycaster
August 23, 2013, 08:06 PM
I shoot a lot of irons, my 6mm PPC for 100-300, my 6mm BR for 300-600, my AR-15 for high power XTC and in rimfire my Anschutz for 4 position indoor. My hunting rifle is my only scoped firearm.

tomrkba
August 23, 2013, 10:32 PM
An acquaintance of mine can do this with a scope:

http://images12.fotki.com/v155/photos/8/867328/12337161/001308GAPa-vi.jpg
Yes, that's 10.597" at 1205 yards with a 308 Winchester load!

http://images52.fotki.com/v639/photos/8/867328/12337161/001100m-vi.jpg
Verification of 100 yard zero

http://images50.fotki.com/v1515/photos/8/867328/12337161/001-vi.jpg
The guns!

BullfrogKen
August 23, 2013, 11:14 PM
I'm sorry, I don't understand your picture at all, Tom.


What I'm seeing is someone who missed a target, or got shots to the arm, please explain?

Blue Brick
August 23, 2013, 11:43 PM
No scope here except in the medicine cabinet.

Peter M. Eick
August 24, 2013, 05:53 AM
http://eickpm.com/picts/best_15rnds_100yrds.jpg

15 rounds, 100 yrds off the bench.

http://eickpm.com/picts/94_target1.jpg

50 shots, 100 yrds, off the bench.

http://eickpm.com/picts/nm_target.jpg

50 shots, 100 yrds off the bench.

I still like irons for shooting but as I get older I see the logic is scopes as the progressive lenses on the glasses get worse. Too bad my range won't let us shoot position.

Boxhead
August 24, 2013, 07:09 AM
We do.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/boxhead61/DSCF0103.jpg (http://s1197.photobucket.com/user/boxhead61/media/DSCF0103.jpg.html)

P5 Guy
August 24, 2013, 03:20 PM
None of my rifles, pistols or shot gun have optical sights.
The shotgun does have a fiber optic pip for the bead.
:uhoh:

tomrkba
August 24, 2013, 04:52 PM
You are looking at a 10.5" group shot at a target 1,205 yards away.

czhen
August 24, 2013, 05:47 PM
In my case, in last years my vision got deteriorated badly, (I'm 53 yo) not diabetic, 5'8", 169 lbs, run 3 mi twice a week at least, along with daily push up and sit ups (+/- 230), and karate classes. In other words, physically fit.
However, my eyes aren't following. I need scopes, some of my rifles have glass, some others not. M1-A doesn't, FAL will never, neither my surplus rifles.
The AR-15 has a red dot that by surprise help me in my AR carbine matches and I've got used to. Also I'm building other with larger barrel 20" to have a 1x4x20 mm or similar.
Nevertheless, always at the time of buying a new rifle, if it doesn't have an iron sights go to another brand.

Henry,
FL

chicharrones
August 24, 2013, 06:02 PM
You shot 50 rounds from the lever gun and 50 rounds from the M1A into the same target?



http://eickpm.com/picts/94_target1.jpg

50 shots, 100 yrds, off the bench.

http://eickpm.com/picts/nm_target.jpg

50 shots, 100 yrds off the bench.

dubbleA
August 24, 2013, 07:50 PM
I shot this 10 round group with a .22 and bulk ammo this morning at 203 yards using the factory peep sights. This was my first experince with peeps in my life. I understand now how they can be pretty accurate.




http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/dubbleA/IMG_6059_zps03064177.jpg

Mat, not doormat
August 25, 2013, 05:21 AM
I guess i'm something of a Neo-Neanderthal. I'm not that old, but I've got a definite preference for irons. Of course, that probably has something to do with the fact that my shooting background is mostly cowboy action. I'm learning telescope shooting now, but I've probably shot a thousand rounds or more with irons for every one I've fired with a scope.

On my cowboy rifles, I use a brass bead front, with a flat top rear. That's worlds better than a semi-buckhorn, which as near as I can tell was invented to see how much of the target you could block out and still shoot at it. Some cowboys use a full buckhorn, with the horns slimmed a bit, as a sort of pseudo ghost ring. It seems to work at CAS distances, but it's lacking in precision, I think.

Outside of CAS, I'm fond of peep and post for general work. It's too bad receiver sights are against the rules. That'd be awesome. For long ranges, a double aperture, aka a globe front sight, is the king of irons.

Gotlabs
August 31, 2013, 07:56 PM
We use irons on everything except our hunting rifles.

armoredman
August 31, 2013, 08:04 PM
dubbleA, nice work, sir. Shooting steel with iron, as it were. ;)

allaroundhunter
August 31, 2013, 08:05 PM
Do I use 'em?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/01/azyve5uq.jpg

Of course I do, and these are some of the best :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/01/yqe3u4a8.jpg

Riven_Cole
August 31, 2013, 10:14 PM
i use irons whenever possible. reason: good glass is expensive, and most guns i fire just DESTROY cheap scopes.
with a mosin t53 i can nail the top part of a bowling pin at ~250 yards most of the time (when my glasses are one straight) with a smith-sights peep and (very loose/shakey) benchrest. same goes with my sks off hand with factory irons at 100. thinking of getting a peep for that too. or a 400m posp, although when including the side mount those cost more than my sks did

Hardtarget
September 1, 2013, 12:37 AM
I only have a scope on one .22 rifle. Everything else has peeps or open Iron. However, my vision is pushing me toward scopes.

Mark

jim243
September 1, 2013, 12:52 AM
and Neanderthals like me should grunt our way back into the caves?

Just be sure to pick up the spears on the way back to the cave (LOL)

Just kidding.

First thing I do after purchasing a new rifle is order a set of dies, the second thing I do is order a scope for it. Only firearms I own without an optic on it is my pistols.

Jim

100 yard 5 shot group with 130 grain SST in 270 Winchester. I could not do that with open sights if my life depended on it.

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/image0.jpg (http://s620.photobucket.com/user/bigjim_02/media/image0.jpg.html)

Inebriated
September 1, 2013, 01:03 AM
Hunting, I don't mind using irons. I actually like them. I hate adding 17oz to a rifle just for a scope that stays on its lowest power anyway.

Self-defense rifles have red dots as primary, though.

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