[Heraclitus]

...master of none?

Among those of you who are hopeless gun collectors (no offense), is anyone a Wild Bill Hickock (or Annie Oakley) with everything he or she owns?

Hypothetical scenario...

You find yourself suddenly in the Twilight Zone. A famous gunslinger challenges you to a showdown. You have the right to defend yourself, but only he can pick your weapon. Everything you own lay on a table before him. He's dead-on with his 1875 Schofield -- an aim that has made him feared throughout the West. But are you as good with your... uh oh... he's handing you the [random choice]?







Regards,

~ Heraclitus

[DMK]

If he's got the guts, he'd pick one of my CZ-52s. If I hit him, it would go clean through him, but I'd probably flinch and those tiny sights.... :rolleyes:

[Tamara]

You have the right to defend yourself, but only he can pick your weapon.

Since the odds are good that he'll be picking a 1911 or DA S&W, I'm as ready as I can be. Out of the fifty handguns I currently own, only four don't fit into one of these two classifications. (Hope he doesn't pick the Nagant!) :)

[Jim K]

Believe me, if I own it, I can shoot it. But one of the problems of owning and shooting several guns is that you (or at least I) never become very good with any of them, and I doubt a Frommer Baby would do the job.

In fact, if I had to face down a cold-blooded killer, I would probably find another Twilight Zone.

Jim

[mdsteele]

:what:

I'd need to get rid of my North American mini before any such contest.

[Ankeny]

It is possible to become very proficient with multiple platforms, but the committment in terms of financial resources and time are substantial. Dry fire twice a day, live fire a couple of times a week, matches every weekend, it gets to be an obsession.

To date, there is only one shooter who has bothered to take the time to earn Master class in all five USPSA (IPSC) divisions, Open, Limited, Limited 10, Production, and Revolver. I am sure there are dozens who could do the same, but it sure spreads a guy thin and you have to be nuts to make 5 division Master a priority. There are no 5 division Grand Masters, yet. A person is better off picking one and practicing.

[pauli]

http://www.retrogames.co.uk/stock/assets/images/Mach_-_Nes_Zapper.jpg

[Josey]

If he hands me my Colt 1908, I might be in a spot.

[arinvolvo]

Only one i would worry about is my autauga 32....not that i cant shoot with it...but it IS tiny, and not a great caliber.

[Moparmike]

Well, seeing as how I only own 1 pistol, a 10mm Witness that I have shot a total of 200rds through, and I flinch like its a Howitzer, I suspect that he would win.

[Heraclitus]

In that case you needn't worry, Moparmike, since you don't fall into the category of those who are hopeless gun collectors. :D

[Moparmike]

Well, if my friends' description means anything, I am a gun-nut. They all think that 1 pistol, 1 rifle, and 1 shotgun (my collection when they saw it) were too many guns, and "no one needs that many guns.":rolleyes: :scrutiny: I then told them that I was days away from getting a semi-auto AK, and they were :what: :scrutiny: :what: !


Heaven forbid I show them a picture of Tamara's gun collection. :evil:

[ducktapehero]

I own 3 handguns but one of them is at my Parents house, so in handguns that leaves me with my Taurus 455 in 45acp which I'm pretty good with and my Beretta in 25acp which I'm OK with but not at any distance. In shotguns I have my single barrel 410 so I could could a buckshot load in that or my single shot 12 gauge or my Ithaca model 37. I'd be ok with my 45 or my 12 gauge's.

[Amish_Bill]

.

[Mr. Mysterious]

Interesting you bring this up...watched a show about the guns of the old west (I think it was Tales of the Gun). It said that most gunfights of the old west were pretty random and luck shots shot at long distances. I'll take my odds with one of my modern firearms at distance over an old single action revolver. Not to mention...if he empties 6 (not 34 like the old western movies ;) ) and I empty a magazine...he better be running fast because I have more where that came from...and he doesn't have a speed loader.

[faustulus]

Most gunfights in the west took place at less than six feet. They happened quick and one party usually shot the other before the other knew what was happening. It had more to do with speed and the mental ability to kill another man. That being said, if I were in the twilight zone I would take my chances with my 'cache'

[Treylis]

pauli:

P-KANG P-KANG P-KANG P-KANG!

;-)

[pauli]

exactly :)

what would suck worse than losing to the twilight zone gunman is being laughed at by that silly digital dog!

[Majic]

Hell I got some that haven't been fired since the factory. It would be a crap shoot for me.

[sm]

My handguns are 1911 style or S&W Wheel guns - except one Keltec P-11. Been this way a long time, so these platforms have been shot - a lot. There is a Colt coming my way...but since at the moment it ain't here...or the fact it is a wheelie afterall...Can I at least choose the side of the street putting my back to the sun? ;)

Can I have Smoke on my side atop the Saloon with a Model 94 in 30-30 ? Oh well no harm in trying...huh? :)

[Ankeny]

A decent keyboard gunslinger will dominate any foe out in fantasy land. My previous post was way too serious so here's the correct reply. Let's assume the Twilight Zone gunfighter would make Bob Munden look like a sloth and Rob Leatham look like he was shooting with boxing gloves on. Heck, I could do a Mozambique Drill on the dude twice over with any gun I own before he even slapped leather. Yeppers, that's the way it would be.

[Heraclitus]

I liked your previous post better. :rolleyes:

:D :D :D




Regards,

~ Heraclitus

[Smoke]

sm,

I'd rather be behind the water trough with the 870 and 00:D

I'm in the same boat as sm, just remove the wheel guns, all my hand guns are 1911 platform.

I hope this idiot thats picking my weapon for me hands me a shottie. ANy of them. If he has any intelligence about him, he will hand me the .22/45, everyone on this board knows a .22 won't kill anything larger than a squirell.

Smoke :D

[Moparmike]

Everyone knows to wear a cast-iron stove door under their blanket. You need it to live so you can warp back to the future in your train-pushed DeLorean. :p

With the "DMC" stamped train wheels.:scrutiny:

[Hemicuda]

I'd need to get rid of my Davis D-32 Derringer before he chose, but as was said already... If I get one, and CAN'T learn to shoot it well, and quickly, down the rider it goes... (W/ the exception of that danged .32... I HADTA take it at $25.00 BRAND NEW IN THE BOX, DANGIT!!!)

speaking of D-32's and rivers... lemme wander down to the bridge and throw it in... then he can pick ANY of my guns (including the 2 .22's... and I'll give him a run for his money...

He may well kill me, but he WON'T walk away unharmed!

[gbelleh]

It sounds like the only way I'd be able to win is if I cheat, so I'd probably point over his shoulder and say something like "Hey! What the hell is that!?" Then shoot him in the back until he's down. :D

[Heraclitus]

Oh c'mon you cheeky monkeys, some of you. Just gimme a straight answer, will ya? :fire: :D I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look. :uhoh:

[Ankeny]

Sorry about the thread drift. I was just injecting some humor. Seriously though, I sold most of my handguns (I will probably live to regret it) and I now only own guns that I either carry or compete with. That's a whopping total of 6 handguns (but they are pretty good guns). I can shoot each of them fairly well (actually really well), with the exception of my mouse gun.

[MrPink]

This is exactly why I "reposistioned" my gun "portfolio" years ago. Not the hypothetical gunslinger, but I wanted guns that have similar operating systems.

The families of guns I own are:

- 1911 pattern
- HK P7 pistols
- S&W DA revolvers
- SIG pistols

This offers plenty of variety: think of all the different 1911s and S&W revolvers but you only have to know two differing manual of arms. With the P7, I own the M8, PSP, M13 and K3 and they all operate the same way. Same goes for the SIG 228, 229, 239 & 220 I own.

OK, so a few oddballs have snuck in: a S&W 41 I can never remember how to field strip, a Seecamp 32 that is just too tiny to let go, a German-made PPK that brings me back to those when-I-was-a-kid-and-James-Bond-was-cool days, etc.

[LeonCarr]

Ankeny,

The one guy you mentioned that is a 5 division USPSA master...who is he?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Ankeny]

LeonCarr:

That would be me. I only did it because no one else had bothered. It's not something IPSC shooters try to accomplish. Revolver Division seems to be a road block. Folks don't want to put the autos down long enough to Master a wheelgun.

OTOH, the guys in IDPA value versatility and earning a classification in all divisions is encouraged. Just one more of the subtle differences between the two sports.

[Tamara]

I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look.

Do you reckon your average numismatist makes sure all the stuff in his collection will function in a Coke machine? :scrutiny:

I'm pretty tolerable with any of my Smith Hand Ejectors, being able to keep a coke can dancing out to 25 yards with any of them, although the Top Break Smittie and the Vaqueros are just toys.

My 1911's are all set up the same, and I drive them okay, except two are project guns (one's in pieces, undergoing a build, and the other is awaiting the same attention.) The other three semiautos consist of two toys and a specialized mousegun.

Wild Bill Hickock would burn me down where I stood no matter which of them I was using.


If it makes you feel more expert to only be able to afford a couple of guns, though, this thread makes much more sense. :)

[Heraclitus]

Do you reckon your average numismatist makes sure all the stuff in his collection will function in a Coke machine? Nope. Which is why I'm asking the Coke machine. :cool:

[Tamara]

Hell, yeah! Why own those Denarii if you can't get a Lime-Flavored Diet Coke with 'em. :D

[Heraclitus]

If it makes you feel more expert to only be able to afford a couple of guns, though, this thread makes much more sense :scrutiny:

Never underestimate someone's power to buy weapons.

If having more guns makes you feel more expert, you certainly feel better than most THR members. :eek::D

[Tamara]

If having more guns makes you feel more expert,

It doesn't, it just makes me feel like I have a bunch of guns.

Beware the corollary, however: Just because someone owns, say, a stunning collection of 19th Century Colt black powder revolvers that they never shoot doesn't necessarily mean that they can't drive the 1911 on their hip just fine. ;)

Possession does not equate to competence, nor either does it equate to incompetence; it merely equates to possession.

[Heraclitus]

To the THR community at large: A Personal Statement.

My original post was not conceived as a gun owner's Bell Curve, or a device meant to instigate readers in the effort to promote petty quibbling and the erosion of basic human respect, but as an informal platform on which THR members can evaluate the general state of their ability as compared to the average size of their collections, and perhaps draw some interesting conclusions thereby.

The issue isn't whether or not one can afford many guns. Nothing is more ludicrous than to assume that one's collection reflects one's income or net worth. If that were the case, I'd have to add another wing to my $250,000 house.

Nor would I dare compare myself to a USPSA Grand Master on the basis of what, in that case, only amounted to a little ego trip of mine. I own tools, not toys; and very few of them at that. If you have many more tools and again as many toys, THEN GOOD FOR YOU! Go ahead and measure up to whatever gods you pray. Just don't shoot your turds at me for not using the same yardstick.

I say this so that there will be no mistake. If you feel incensed by remarks made here by me or any other member, I apologize. But if you see my post for what it was truly intended, then you will indeed have seen the forest for the trees, and its initial purpose might then be restored.


Best regards,

~ Heraclitus

[Hal]

Heraclitus,
Tell ya what.
Rather than pick one of MY toys (or tools), YOU pick YOUR gun.
Put 5 shots downrange @ 25 feet.
I'll do my best to put MY 5 shots inside of yours using YOUR gun.
(that what your looking for?)

[Heraclitus]

You still don't get it, do you, Hal.

Tell YOU what. Go back one post and READ.

This is not a pissing contest. Why do you insist it is? If you can't give me a simple answer along these lines (even an approximate one would be welcome) then I suggest you don't wet your feet.

[ksnecktieman]

I would not want to take my ruger 22 or my keltec 32 to a gun fight. I feel competent with them, but they are just not adequate.

I would not put myself in the class of a "gun slick" from the past or the present. My goal is to always have a gun, and if I am in danger I will watch for the proper opportunity to turn the tables on the threat.

One thing Ayoob said when asked if he would rather have his choice of gun, and no warning, or 30 seconds warning and be stuck with an inadequate gun. His perception was that a .25 pistol stuck in someones ear would be a good fight stopper.

[Eskimo Jim]

This is one of the more interesting 'what-ifs' that I've read in a long time.

I have a very modest collection so I have been able to remain competent with everything that I own.

Bear in mind that I probably only have owned one handgun that is likely to be considered collectable.

Maybe a distinction should have been made that your collectable firearms are not on the table for selection. So your rare original Colt Walker is out of the running because you don't/won't/shouldn't shoot it. However, your reproduction is on the table.

It doesn't matter to me if someone has a room full of firearms yet only has one 'shooter' firearm. It sure would be interested to see or talk about the collection.

-Jim

[caz223]

Here's the problem.
He's a gunfighter.
You see, I'm not a gunfighter.
I'm a collector/shooter/hobbyist.
I lose.
I could be armed with a MAC-10 or a sterling L3A2, I would still lose.

[Ankeny]

The self defense triad is usually thought to consist of mindset, gun handling skills, and marksmanship. The number of firearms a person owns doesn't even enter into the equation.

Heraclitus:

The entire thread is based on a what if Twilight Zone fantasy scenario, and as such it's subject to thread drift, hi-jacking, and a bit of fun. If you want serious answers to specific questions try speaking plainly. All I am getting out of your follow-up posts is a raft of passive aggression thinly veiled behind rhetoric. Oops, I guess I just launched a turd. :D

[Heraclitus]

Maybe a distinction should have been made that your collectable firearms are not on the table for selection. Case noted. Thanks for your post, caz223. :cool: The entire thread is based on a what if Twilight Zone fantasy scenario, and as such it's subject to thread drift, hi-jacking, and a bit of fun. If you want serious answers to specific questions try speaking plainly. Case noted. Thanks for your post, Ankeny. :cool: All I am getting out of your follow-up posts is a raft of passive aggression thinly veiled behind rhetoric. Oops, I guess I just launched a turd. :fire: :cuss: :p :D

[Ankeny]

ROTFLMAO, those smilies say it all. Now that's plain speak.

[Old Dude]

I only own three handguns--all Glocks. I am best with my G19, next best with my G21, and least proficient with my G17, but the differences are not really great. At any meaningful self-defense range, I'm going to hurt him--probably badly. At 50 feet, my option, with any of my handguns, would be a strategic and headlong retreat. At that distance, my old legs work better than my old eyes.

[Dorrin79]

interesting thread - although as Tamara pointed, a hard killer from the Bad Old Days would probably beat the majority of us even if we had our personal Super Pistol +3 of Accuracy.

I own 5 handguns, and am more or less equally proficient with each of them.

I've practiced the most with my 1911 and Hi-Power, but I wouldn't feel undergunned with my Star BM or Makarov.

The one I would NOT want at a gunfight is my Mk II target, because a) it's a .22, and b) I still haven't sent it back to Ruger to have it's extraction problem fixed.

:banghead:

[Heraclitus]

Old Dude,

One can say, then, that you have practiced to a point where you are good with all of your guns, and that, even with those minor differences that you mentioned, you would still be proficient with whatever the gunslinger handed you.

Now that's what I call reining the herd. Good man.



Best regards,

~ Heraclitus

[Marshall]

Well, if he was smart, he would pick my Browning BDA .380. The rest of my handguns I'm pretty darn salty with but, I might have trouble hitting the earth below me with that BDA. :rolleyes:

Pretty gun though! :D

[Heraclitus]

Dorrin79,

From reading your post and several others like it, I have come to the conclusion that there are definitely two clear and distinct categories of guns in each collection; a difference that seems awful narrow when it's small, but becomes clearer and even more distinct as it grows in size.

These are the toys and tools that I mentioned before. Not the collectibles and non-collectibles as witnessed by some casual observer, but those that are exercised more frequently and those that will not as often smell of burnt powder.

One gathers a notion pretty soon that the owner of a large collection often becomes much more proficient -- by innate tendency rather than by choice -- with a relatively limited number of his or her guns (assuming mostly different weapons and not a bunch of clones). This would not be good in a T.Z. showdown. Unless our collection looks like Tamara's (a great collection by the way), most of us would probably sweat a bit under the collar.

Thanks, everybody, for all the fine posts. Lucky for you, the T.Z. gunslinger picked the wrong gun.

Wrong for him.



Cheers,

~ Heraclitus

[Tamara]

Could your bias be so subconscious that you yourself can't detect it? :uhoh: :p

Ever walked up to the curator of a museum and asked him "So, how good are you with all those 15th-century polearms on the wall?"

I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look.

Nor would I dare compare myself to a USPSA Grand Master on the basis of what, in that case, only amounted to a little ego trip of mine. I own tools, not toys; and very few of them at that.

Go ahead and measure up to whatever gods you pray. Just don't shoot your turds at me for not using the same yardstick.

and, lastly:

But if you see my post for what it was truly intended, then you will indeed have seen the forest for the trees, and its initial purpose might then be restored.

What was the purpose, again? That you use all the stamps in your house to mail letters while some stamp collectors don't? This is supposed to prove what, exactly? That if a 19th Century postmaster came back from the dead like in some Wes Craven film, that you'd be better set to give him something to postmark than your neighbourhood philatelist? ;)

[Dr.Rob]

As long as he picks one that WORKS I'm ok. (Have a DA FrankenColt 1911A1 that needs a trip to the shop for sear tweaking)

But I'd rather NOT face down Bad Bart armed only with a Colt .25 Vest Pocket pistol. (Though I can hit an orange at 30 feet with it).

If Bart has access to all my guns.. what's to keep him from shooting me with one of my own?

ie: I'm laying in the dirt and Bart is walking off into the sunset with my trusty Colt Commander...

Or Bart eyes my Vaquero, and being a 'straight shooter' decides he's going to make it a fair fight. Problem is the only loads available are those nuclear hot hand-rolled buffalo killers that dad made. I can't shoot those worth a darn.

[Heraclitus]

Tamara,

There is absolutely no contradiction in any of my statements. None whatsoever. Neither direct nor implied. If you see one, would you please be so kind as to point it out to me? Maybe it's only a matter of clarifying something to you...

...but then why the hell would I take a name like Heraclitus? ;)

Ironic, isn't it.

Doh! :eek:

See my previous post for some enlightment.

[Old Dude]

Heraclitus, I don't want to own more handguns than I can carry to the range in my bag. I think my guns get jealous if they're ignored for too long. So, whenever I go to the range, I always bring at least two of them.

[Heraclitus]

OK... Pull up your bootstraps, Tamara, 'cuz here we go.

Let's clarify these little gems of mine, at no extra charge. :D
I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look.So what. Does that imply that I personally am? I just want to know if you’re an ace with what you've got. I wasn’t about to put anyone down if they weren't flawless with everything they owned. Did you think I would?
Nor would I dare compare myself to a USPSA Grand Master on the basis of what, in that case, only amounted to a little ego trip of mine. I own tools, not toys; and very few of them at that.Ugh! Pitifully out of context by itself. “That case” being that "case" in which I found myself owning a lot of guns, which I don’t. And even if I did, I wouldn’t expect you to think that I was good with all of them. I didn't suggest that anymore than you did with your collection. I just needed for you to tell me. I'm a bit curious, alright?Go ahead and measure up to whatever gods you pray. Just don't shoot your turds at me for not using the same yardstick.Yeah? Am I missing something here? Ever hear the phrase “Live and let live”?
But if you see my post for what it was truly intended, then you will indeed have seen the forest for the trees, and its initial purpose might then be restored.Been there done that.

Got any more?



Best regards,

~ Heraclitus

[Mr. Mysterious]

Any chance this gunslinger would take one look at the future and decide he better not test his odds?

What about if you demo'd a full auto glock 17 with a 30 round magazine for him...chances are he'd probably think twice.

Or you shoot a couple rounds into a fence post with you .50AE Desert Eagle. That 2 foot long tounge of flame and the fence post falling in half might cause a little fear.

[Majic]

Any chance this gunslinger would take one look at the future and decide he better not test his odds?
Or that could backfire as in the not so distant past shooters actually judged the accuracy and shot at distances of 25 to 50 yards. Today you see many shooters standing only 7 yards away from the target. Some actually be only spitting distance away.
The gunslinger may back up a few steps giving him even better odds. Todays advanced handguns still don't make up for the performance of the shooter.

[Chris Rhines]

When it comes right down to it, there's no way for anyone on the internet to prove that they really own the huge safe-full of guns that they post pics of, or that they really can shoot as well as they say they can on the internet.

So, I have three-hundred-odd high-end pistols in my collection, and I can shoot tossed quarters out of the air with any one of them. So there. ;)

- Chris

[Tamara]

:D

[Ankeny]

...or that they really can shoot as well as they say they can on the internet.

Here's my USPSA number, TY43321. Go look up the results. So there. :D

[Hal]

"I just want to know if you’re an ace with what you've got?"

My shooting/work bud Jim and I were out by the curb @ work having a smoke (not allowed to smoke on Co. property). Big ole fat goose, maybe 40-50 yards way waddeling around. I "mocked" a two hand hold and leveled it at the goose, made a "POP" sound - a said "right throught the eye".
Jim said "I don't doubt it for a second", in a real matter of fact way.

We didn't specify which "gun" - didn't have to.

(closer?)

[stiletto raggio]

All of my guns, except the out of commission Taurus Tracker, are esasy for me to hit with. I guess I would be at a big disadvantage if he picked my 340PD, just because the recovery time is so long and the sight radius is so short. I would hope he would pick my G34... I can hit targets a long ways away with that baby, and I recon my rig (Safariland 6004) would compare favorably to his.

[Black Majik]

Of my handguns, my revolver 686 is probably the most intimidating. So that leaves that one out. Good.... cuz I'm better off with my autoloaders anyways.

*crosses fingers* that he picks a 1911. :D

[Heraclitus]

Of my handguns, my revolver 686 is probably the most intimidating. So that leaves that one out.Black Majik,

LOL :D

I hear ya, man... One look at the 686, and T.Z. dude will prob'ly want to trade!

[LeonCarr]

I just looked up Ankeny's stats on the USPSA web site. Remind me never to make him mad :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Andrew Wyatt]

there is not a pistol in this house that i'd feel unarmed using.

[JohnKSa]

I own handguns for the following reasons:

1. Fun shooting.
2. Deals too good to pass up.
3. Competition
4. Hunting
5. Good deals that I intend to trade or sell some day.
6. Self-Defense.
7. Bought to take advantage of particularly inexpensive ammo.
8. Other.

I can't decide if you're implying that I should only buy guns for self-defense, or that I should practice with all of my guns (even the ones bought for their cool factor, as trade bait, or purely as plinkers) until I feel comfortable using them in self-defense.

Either one seems a bit restrictive.

[Old Dude]

Wouldn't it be simpler just to take the question at face value and choose to either answer it or not? Seems to me much less stressful.

My 2 kopeks.

[4v50 Gary]

I'm up the creek. He picks my Baby Browning or Colt Pocket Pistol (another name for Colt's Baby Browning), two guns I've never shot. My disabled Colt Official Police. :uhoh: My PoS S&W "gun-plumbed $10 special" Victory with the non-revolving cylinder.

I'm in deep do-do and incontinence can be embarassing. :o

May I bring Quigley with me please? I'll ask "Roy" to start at 800 yards against the gunfighter while I watch from 1200 through my Leupold spotting scope. Afterwards I'll buy "Roy" a whiskey.

[Heraclitus]

JohnKSa,

I'm not implying anthing. My question is very simple: Are you good with everything you've got, or not? I'm not dissing anyone who isn't. If so, I'd might as well be dissing myself. My interest is purely academic. I just want to know if there is any impulse in that direction among the many members of this board; and if so, if that impulse limits, to any extent, the size of a collection.

From that perspective, your answer is as good as any.


Cheers,

~ Heraclitus

[JohnKSa]

I just want to know if there is any impulse in that direction among the many members of this board; and if so, if that impulse limits, to any extent, the size of a collection.
Ok, let's look at this logically.

Mr. X won't own a gun unless he is very good with it.

So, Mr. X can't buy any gun unless he can prevail upon someone else to allow him to put a few thousand rounds through their firearm so he can achieve the proper skill level before purchasing it. Or maybe spend a good bit of cash at a rental range.

Once Mr. X manages to overcome this hurdle, he can't buy any further guns unless they are identical in form and function to the single gun he already owns. That is, unless, he repeats the process.

So, Mr. X can't buy a gun that isn't identical to one already owned by a friend, or available at a local rental range, or perhaps one that is identical to one owned by a family member.

Off hand, I don't know of any people who have an impulse like that and find it difficult to believe that there are a significant number of them. I also feel reasonably sure that someone did find themselves so afflicted, it would put a very strict limit on the variety, if not the size, of their gun collection.

[Heraclitus]

Off hand, I don't know of any people who have an impulse like that and find it difficult to believe that there are a significant number of them.So do I. Hence my question.

[pauli]

i figured it would be more of an impulse to master every weapon you buy, rather than buy only weapons you've mastered...

[Heraclitus]

Excellent point, pauli. That would be the more likely scenario if, as JohnKSa put it, someone was "afflicted" by it.

[Ankeny]

I am afflicted by "it". Three years ago I reduced the size of my firearms collection drastically. I decided to only keep those guns that I shoot regularly. Up until last month, the only new purchases were those guns that I bought to compete with in another IPSC or IDPA division. Last month I bought a pocket gun for deep concelament. I own one pocket pistol, one carry gun (1911 style) and the rest are competition pieces. It's a horrible disease.

[seeker_two]

It's more a matter of strategy than hardware.

No matter what Hickock chose for me to use, I'd cheat....

Remember how he met his end the first time...:evil:

[MJRW]

$250,000!!!! WOWWY!

That's a condo in NoVA, how you going to add a wing to it?

[MJRW]

"My question is very simple: Are you good with everything you've got, or not? I'm not dissing anyone who isn't."

That was not your question. Your question was "Jack Of All Guns...master of none?" This question was directed at "hopeless gun collectors." You were questioning whether or not gun collectors could actually shoot while non-collectors got to leave without being questioned.

I believe you were also the first one to equate gun collection quantity directly to skill: "I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look." Didn't look like you liked responses which did the same, though.

I don't have a substantial collection. I own what I like to shoot. I can't see owning a whole lot of guns that would gather dust in my safe. I do see firearm penis envy, however.

[Heraclitus]

I do see firearm penis envy, however.Hahahahah!... And who's envy is that, MJRW? Mine? The guns I have are few by choice, not by necessity. At its peak, my collection numbered thirty. Is that still too small for ya?

Envy indeed. :rolleyes: :D :D :D

Tell me: How many guns should I go out and buy? A dozen? Two dozen? What do I need to prove? That I can afford it? Your statement is truly the most hilarious I have ever read.

:neener:

Of course, the levity of my original post should have clued you in on its harmless intent, but as yet you seem totally clueless.

...............................................

Ankeny,

You and I are in the same boat, 'ol buddy. But do you think we should openly admit our "affliction"? :uhoh: :p

[MJRW]

No one is asking you to believe it or telling you how to prove whatever it is you need to prove. But hey, when the world doesn't get what you are saying, it is the world that is clueless. It couldn't POSSIBLY be what or how you are saying it. Why, that would include...fault...impossible.:uhoh:

Although you failed to answer the one question I asked. How are you going to add a wing to a condo, money bags?

[Heraclitus]

That's a condo in NoVA, how you going to add a wing to it?O.T., but if you insist... I don't live in NoVA.

Still sore? :p


P.S.> Don't flatter yourself. You and maybe two others hardly represent "the world".

[Heraclitus]

seeker_two,

I love it!

ROTFLMAO :D

[MJRW]

I find your response to anyone posing a view that isn't immediately in-line with your own to be disproportionately aggressive and condescending. Where you got the idea that I was sore is truly baffling. Where you got the impression that your whopping "$250,000 home" would impress anyone is equally baffling. That you missed the point of my clearly-exaggerated-for-the-purposes-of-making-the-point statement about confusion and managed to turn it into an insult is to be expected and in-line with what I believe to be the type of person you are thus far. It would require the acceptance of responsibility that your activities may have been less than flawless.

You picked and chose what you would address. There was a clear statement in my post but you just opted to avoid it and instead address other less substantive things. I think you are just thrashing around now hoping dearly to avoid getting back on subject.

That said, let me point this out to you again:

""My question is very simple: Are you good with everything you've got, or not? I'm not dissing anyone who isn't."

That was not your question. Your question was "Jack Of All Guns...master of none?" This question was directed at "hopeless gun collectors." You were questioning whether or not gun collectors could actually shoot while non-collectors got to leave without being questioned.

I believe you were also the first one to equate gun collection quantity directly to skill: "I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look." Didn't look like you liked responses which did the same, though."

You've already proven that you will address statements that are not questions. Why did you not address these ones but instead chose one small line that was clearly just personal opinion? If you can't address these simple statements, I will just call it a day and go about assuming happily that you have no valid response. Anything of yours that avoids addressing that will simply serve to endorse that assumption.

[Heraclitus]

I'm game.

That was not your question. Your question was "Jack Of All Guns...master of none?".Wrong. That was my introduction. And it was deliberately phrased in a way to chaff one's ego, in a lighthearted way, so as to remain open to as many answers as I got, most of which were positive. Also, it might have inadvertently served to inoculate the rare and hypersensitive soul who might mistake it for an affront.This question was directed at "hopeless gun collectors."Why do you persist in excluding the "(no offense)" attachment? Do you hope to make some point by lopping it off?You were questioning whether or not gun collectors could actually shootWrong. I NEVER questioned whether or not gun collectors could actually shoot. I asked if there was anyone out there who made it a point to be good with everything they owned. Not that they had to be.while non-collectors got to leave without being questioned.Non-collectors were not part of the inquiry.I believe you were also the first one to equate gun collection quantity directly to skill: "I want to know if you're as good with your gallery as your gallery makes it look."Now where would you get that idea? Where does it say that the collector has no skill whatsoever with ANY of his or her guns? Where? You have a tendency to generalize that is not wholesome to this thread. It is possible that you never took the trouble to read any of my follow ups after that $250,000 snag you hit. That remark was in response to a comment made by the only other person on this thread who, like yourself, suggested that maybe I was envious of bigger collections. Why anyone would think such nonsense is anybody's guess.


Look, man. I'm sorry if you felt bothered by any of my remarks. I had kind of hoped you had seen this whole thing in another light, as it was never meant to make anyone cross. I respect your collection and I don't want you to feel like I am insinuating anything other than that. Nor do I question your skill as a shooter or your ability to purchase weapons. I'm just looking for some good rapport with people who share a common interest with me. In hindsight, I think I have achieved just that.

Cheers.

~ Heraclitus

[riverdog]

Guns I have trouble with are either sold or they go to the range more. My last problem child is now the only pistol outside the safe and it's ready to go, reliable and accurate.

My 1911's have an identical trigger feel because the same gunsmith set them up. The S&W revo's are the same. He might select a Ruger GP-100 but that would be a bad move on his part; I'm comfortable with that revolver at 100 yards.

[Heraclitus]

Right on, riverdog! The GP-100 is one of the best wheelguns in .357 MAG that I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. I was amazed at how easy it was to hit a 9" target at 100 yds with a borrowed gun. I'm sure that it's an even bigger pleasure to own.

The Twilight Zone gunslinger would sure have reason to fear. :cool:

Who's you gunsmith by the way? I'm thinking of getting my 1911's trigger worked on too. I replaced the OEM with a Wilson Combat Competition Match trigger, but it still feels a bit lame. Any suggestions?

[Tamara]

So you're equally good with both your P-225 and your 1911? Cool! Me, that's why I had to pick a platform and do my semiauto collecting within that platform; I had to keep my serious tools all the same. I always had that slightest hitch that kept my hands from being able to run on muscle memory alone when it was one of those "Is this the Glock or the P7 or the 1911?" days. I ain't never gonna be no Ankeny. :uhoh:

[Heraclitus]

Tamara,

Good with my 1911?... You bet I am! ;)

Good with my P225?... Well, let's just say that I still need to work on it. :o

I have trouble with muscle memory too, especially after going a long time between guns. That's probably the reason I whittled my collection down to begin with. I suppose it's that nagging, obsessive, compulsive urge of mine to manhandle everything I've got that has brought me down to this lowly state. :uhoh: :D

Okay, I admit it. I'm a zany, pluralistic, chauvinist gun pig. I need help. :banghead: ;)

But take heart... most of us here will never be an Ankeny. (Not that it's a bad thing either. I just have to say that, since THR can be something of a minefield at times. Gotta add more smilies too. And edit, edit, edit.) :cool:


Thanks for your post.

Best regards,

~ Heraclitus

[Ankeny]

Time to get serious for a change. :) I suppose what we are really talking about is multi-gun proficiency. Here's my take on the subject.

As I switched from one platform to the next in IPSC, I discovered that my ability to shoot the platforms I was already deemed proficient with was greatly diminished. Shooting is a perishable skill. The last division I made M class in was Production with a CZ 75B. When I was at the top of my game with the CZ, I couldn't shoot my wide body guns or revolver at the Master level. I was only really good with the gun I was concentrating on at the time.

I think it's great to own a truck load of guns and plink around with them depending on the mood of the day. Diversity is nice. But in all honesty, if a person wants to be really good, they should pick one and practice. Spreading yourself thin across half a dozen different platforms probably isn't a good idea especially in self defense applications. YMMV

[Heraclitus]

You are a wise man, Ankeny. I greet your input with a lot of interest. It is, of course, my wish to get good with my few CCWs. Damn good, if I may. And since I am the type who easily falls to temptation when I have a lot to pick from, I must nurish a will to covet only a few. That is the only way that I will personally prevail in my quest for total proficiency (with what I have). It's a weakness, I guess.

(Might I exclude picture-framed eye candy from the original post?) ;)

Yep, not having a lot to show puts you (us, them, whoever) in a lesser league of sorts, but what it ultimately boils down to is which league you want to be in.

Thanks for your post.


Best regards,

~ Heraclitus.

[drannor]

This one appears to have hit a nerve....

Against Hickock I'm dead regardless, but if he handed me the Blackhawk .45LC or Glock 20 I'd make a particularly bad showing. That said the G20 is for sale, and the blackhawk was such a steal used that I can't part company with it until I have more practice time.

I own about a dozen autoloaders (4 1911's, 3 sigs, plus misc) and 4 wheelguns (586/686, Red/Blackhawk). Not sure if that makes me a "collector". I'm freely willing to admit I'm not a great shot, but I certainly don't like the implication that my passion for firearms somehow works against my ability.

[Ankeny]

A person's passion for firearms has nothing to do with their proficiency level and I don't think anyone is saying quantity of guns owned has a direct relationship on the quality of shooting skill.

However, I do believe it's pretty tough to get really good with any particular platform if a person's practice time is scattered all over the place.

[Baba Louie]

I've found reading this thread to be quite... interesting. From the original post to Ankeny's latest.
In keeping with the original post's intent I'll offer, I can generally hit my targets with all of the few toys I own. With some, I can even do it kinda quick. Some make bigger holes, others make more holes. In no case, shape, way or form have my targets ever shot back at me... let alone been noted for doing same with noteriety.
I like it that way. Pieces of paper or cardboard shapes, a few soda cans, the occaisional golf ball or water filled milk jugs... well, if I'm ever attacked by those boys, I'll whup up on 'em good. ;)
But (in keeping with original post) with my luck, good old gunslinger, having perused my meager collection of little firesticks, would more than likely select my sweet little RG-10 (grandpa's legacy :D ) or my KBI-PSP-25 (Baby Browning clone)... how in the heck are you really supposed to hold on to them using one finger and a thumb? At least that's what I'd chose if I was him and was calling out Baba Louie and got to chose from BL's brace. Never fight fair.
Having said that, after he chose whatever was on the table, I'd probably not tell him about the one I am carrying concealed and practice with regularly.
All's fair in love, war and Internet gunfights... right? :rolleyes:

[Hal]

I've found reading this thread to be quite... interesting. From the original post to Ankeny's latest. :D You too huh?
I heard the old Simon and Garfinkle tune "Sounds of Silence" the other day. That one line,,, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls",, today it'd have to be "The words of the philosophers are written on internet forums". :D

Anyhow, another said it this way:
"Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. "

Greek-boy seemed to miss the implication that by using the TWZ gunners own gun, he'd lose quite a bit of interest in picking anything I owned.

Win/win all around, IMNSHO.

Ankeny looks like he cyber-bested the TZ gunner, based on the posts. Like it or not, he's become the "new TZ gunner" ie: the man, the one to beat. Kind of baggage I wouldn't want to be perfectly honest.

[Heraclitus]

good old gunslinger, having perused my meager collection of little firesticks, would more than likely select my sweet little RG-10 (grandpa's legacy ) or my KBI-PSP-25 (Baby Browning clone)...Who says you don't have an edge?... Hell, David beat Goliath with a sling. ;)by using the TWZ gunners own gun, he'd lose quite a bit of interest in picking anything I owned.I suppose that if we wanted to get real anal about this whole thing, we could modify the original title to read: Jack Of All Guns... Master Of Some; or say that the Twilight Zone gunslinger was actually a Star Trek (Spectre Of The Gun) spinoff. But that would spoil its piquant overtone.

Quote from 2001: A Space Odyssey... "I feel my mind going." :D

[Ankeny]

Hal:

I tend to just fool around on this particular forum because I find the behavior here amusing. At times I behave like a bit of a troll because so many of the people seem to delight in personal attacks, on line debates, and constantly stirring things up. Sometimes I forget that arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded.

There was a time when I tried to make some helpful comments on this forum, but it's obvious that this is not a place for learning and teaching, it's a place for gun enthusiasts to share opinions and beliefs. It's also a stomping grounds for informal plinkers and hard core competitors alike to have some good natured fun.

I know a lot of folks who hit the range with a truck load of guns and they shoot them all pretty well. They love diversity and they are just nuts about guns. They are the heart and the soul of the shooting community.

Then there are guys who shoot competitively and they are serious students of the sport. Those folks live in a different world than the average shooter and that's fine too. Neither person is any better nor any worse than the other. A person's worth as a human being is not measured by their shooting accomplishments. I am no "better" than anyone on this forum.

I edited the post when the lights came on and I equated TZ gunner with Time Zone Gunner. Beating a fantasy hero in a make believe world isn't very difficult if you have a little imagination.

[jercamp45]

....if somewhat meandering.
I will not claim to be a master shooter, but I have tried about every action style out there at one time or another and owned most of them. My meager collection revolves around 1911 .45's now, because that is what I shoot best, am most comfortable with and trust the most. Tis a love affair spanning 30 years.
No, I cannot shoot my Jay frame .38 as good, but then again, I cannot get one on my 1911's in my trouser or robe pocket. I rent alot of the 'new and improved' guns at the range or borrow pistols from other shooter's or security guards at our range time get together's. And normally I can out shoot them with their own handguns. Whether this means I am good or they are just that bad is a matter of personal opinion.
Most of shooting accurately is...good solid stance, sight alignment and trigger control. With that in mind I can shoot most handguns accurate enough to engage an aggressive human within 15 meters.
But the combat mindset does not come from the range, nor does shooting proficiency make one a good killer of men. Tis a bit different when the target is shooting back, moving, hiding or has the cold eyes that just does not care if he takes a life(or loses his).
As for Duelling?????? I have nothing to prove to anyone.I'd walk away..what other people think of me is their own stuff. Such macho games are for those worthy of Darwinization.
Jercamp45