1 month until my new crown jewel arrives....


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JohnnyK
August 24, 2013, 12:45 AM
ok so I took the plunge... after 2 years of busting my ass... 70-80+ hour weeks... over 900 hours of studying for 1 test (took 3 tries to pass) while working full time to pass high school math content exam... I got my first teaching contract and as my reward I'm getting a vz 59 from Malcolmar Firearms... down payment is en route... I've got 880 rounds of 7.62x 54r en route along with 2 250 round belts and cans.... the gun will also come with another 250 round belt and can and a 50 round belt and can also... I can't wait to load all the belts and break this baby in properly :) they are also going to make a rail mount so I can put on a red dot...
now waiting is the hard part... :D


http://www.marcolmarfirearms.com/images/2296367be4d35289a3e043a4d79a112f.jpghttp://www.marcolmarfirearms.com/images/2296367be4d35289a3e043a4d79a112f.jpg

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OptimusPrime
August 24, 2013, 01:00 AM
You sir, have chosen a beautiful reward. Congratulations.

fmj50
August 24, 2013, 01:04 AM
Awesome, how much? I want one.

barnbwt
August 24, 2013, 03:06 AM
"they are also going to make a rail mount so I can put on a red dot... "

Rather; "they are also going to make a rail mount so I can roll it to the range" :D

Very cool. I believe Trent on here was awaiting one of these from someone or other (how many guys could possibly be making these, right? :D)

Lot's of feelthy peektures when she does arrive, okay :evil:

TCB

JohnnyK
August 24, 2013, 11:40 AM
north of 4k...

JohnnyK
August 24, 2013, 02:56 PM
im one of the last to be in the first group of 50 to order... once they hit 50 the price will go up $500... this is their intr price... anyone have a clue where to get a belt loader for one of these?

Sam Cade
August 24, 2013, 03:10 PM
O.K, I have to ask.


What is the appeal of this?

JohnnyK
August 24, 2013, 05:56 PM
uh only 250 round belts of 7.62x54r... which is russian version of .308...

Outlaw Man
August 24, 2013, 06:11 PM
That looks like all kinds of fun. Enjoy it. You've certainly earned it.

Sam Cade
August 24, 2013, 06:37 PM
which is russian version of .308...

:rolleyes:

I am well versed as to the developmental history and deployment of 7.62x54r in its various czarist, Finnish and Warsaw pact incarnations.


uh only 250 round belts of 7.62x54r...

So the appeal lies strictly in capacity? I just don't see it.

But hey, whatever makes you happy.

JohnnyK
August 24, 2013, 07:01 PM
its also investment just like trent... ill sell it once malcolmar makes pkms again... thats the one i really want but a few years to wait...

Black Butte
August 25, 2013, 12:33 AM
I just don't see it.

It's not your gun, so you don't have to see it.

Gordon
August 25, 2013, 12:42 AM
Good gun to defend your castle with! From a properly sand bagged position with say a 2x or better Aimpoint or ACOG only canon or rocket launcher fire is gonna put you down (barring air support!). You need 5k ammo at least to get a good body stack :evil: . You know I think AIMED semi fire from such a fire support platform beats light weapon zone full auto fire any day! IMH experience.;)

Sam Cade
August 25, 2013, 01:10 AM
It's not your gun, so you don't have to see it.
Testy testy. ;)

Black Butte
August 25, 2013, 01:32 AM
Testy testy.

Not at all. Like most of the other commentors here, I am pleased the OP is happy with his new rifle.

Sam Cade
August 25, 2013, 02:06 AM
I am pleased the OP is happy with his new rifle.
Ditto. He could even marry my sister.;)


However, I still think that dropping 4k on a firearm of such marginal utility is well, quite frankly, nuts.
Did the OP honestly expect tummy rubs and congratulations all around?

Especially considering that $4,000 will get you into a GAP-10 and glass.

I dunno, maybe I need to loosen up, but I don't have much use for toys like this. Wiggling my index finger and watching dirt kick up on the berm just isn't fun for me.:D

happygeek
August 25, 2013, 03:15 AM
I am curious how they modify these to fire from a closed bolt. Do they add a hammer or something?

JohnnyK
August 25, 2013, 02:11 PM
im not a dog so tummy rubs don't do much for me... I already married best woman on the planet so no interest in anyone's sister... its a FUN gun... a reward for busting my ass... ive already got hd, concealed weapons, multiple other rifles in various calibers... some of these posters need to pull the stick out of their butt and lighten up... yes 4k is more than the price of a real nice ar and a lot of other kinds of guns... its also more than i spent on my truck almost 10 years ago... maybe i have different priorities than others... don't be hatin... im debt free i can afford a fun toy.

JohnnyK
August 25, 2013, 02:18 PM
@happygeek... you'd have to ask Dave Bane owner of Malcolmar... he's got patent pending guts hes put in these guns to make them semi auto... as well as milled receiver from 40lb block of steel and custom made barrels from Germany...

bushmaster1313
August 25, 2013, 03:23 PM
Only in Texas (and a few other free states) could a teach post about getting a belt fed semi-auto military style gun!

God Bless and good luck in your new job.
Sounds like you earned it.

ball3006
August 25, 2013, 07:15 PM
Now, you need to buy a Ural Gear UP to mount it on. chris3

JohnnyK
August 25, 2013, 07:41 PM
@bushmaster1313 you got that right!
@ball3006 there is a specific tripod for this badboy that costs around $1500 the czechs used for anti aircraft purposes...

Black Butte
August 25, 2013, 11:50 PM
I still think that dropping 4k on a firearm of such marginal utility is well, quite frankly, nuts. Did the OP honestly expect tummy rubs and congratulations all around?

I'm not one who who needs to rain on another person's parade. Different people have different tastes and place different values on different things. The world would be boring if everyone was the same. The OP is pleased with his new rifle, and I'm happy for him.

Sebastian the Ibis
August 26, 2013, 01:12 AM
I want one too! Nice purchase.

bannockburn
August 26, 2013, 07:17 AM
JohnnyK

Very cool fun gun/toy! Congrats all the way around.

gunownerz
August 26, 2013, 07:02 PM
This. Is. Glorious. Well done. Congrats.

Trent
August 29, 2013, 11:44 AM
Very cool. I believe Trent on here was awaiting one of these from someone or other (how many guys could possibly be making these, right? :D)

TCB

Yup, sent Dave my check last week. ETA 1.5 weeks, give or take. Been waiting a long time for one.

Hanzo581
August 29, 2013, 11:48 AM
Not the route I would have taken but enjoy!

Trent
August 29, 2013, 11:59 AM
However, I still think that dropping 4k on a firearm of such marginal utility is well, quite frankly, nuts.

Did the OP honestly expect tummy rubs and congratulations all around?

Especially considering that $4,000 will get you into a GAP-10 and glass.

I dunno, maybe I need to loosen up, but I don't have much use for toys like this. Wiggling my index finger and watching dirt kick up on the berm just isn't fun for me.:D

Yeah you might need to loosen up.

I've spent 1/2 as much as this on some belt feds, 2x more than this on some belt feds, and 3x more on even other belt feds.. all semi-automatic.

Doesn't matter if I put $4,000 or $400,000 down, it will not buy me in to ANY full auto weapons in Illinois. And I can't move (5 kids, business, etc.). Truth be told, I have much less interest in full auto than I had in my 20's - mainly because of the cost / scarcity of ammo today. :)

What *is* fascinating is tearing these down, seeing what makes them tick. Understanding what made them tick faster in a previous life. And what was done to make them tick slower in their current incarnation.

Also, I with the accuracy some of these guns are capable of, I wouldn't want to discount their effectiveness if deployed in their original roles. Are they going to be as good stopping a cavalry charge? No, but we haven't seen one of those in a century. They're still capable of putting a LOT of accurate fire downrange, though. The only real difference from a machinegunners playbook is you won't be effective with plunging fire on a group in defilade.

Other than that, you've got range, suppression capability, etc.

Trent
August 29, 2013, 12:05 PM
im one of the last to be in the first group of 50 to order... once they hit 50 the price will go up $500... this is their intr price... anyone have a clue where to get a belt loader for one of these?

No idea on the belt loader. I have two belt loaders; one for the PKM/Maxim, and one for the vz 37. Of the two, the PKM one would be more likely to work as it shares the cartridge with the UK Vz 58... but with the belt style.. don't know!

I *do* know my vz 37 belts are *absolute devils* to load without the belt loader. They're by far the most difficult of all the belt feds. (Even the monster DSHK is simple to load by comparison).

Hopefully (won't know until it's here), the UK vz 58 is easier to deal with.

Curious to see if they changed the tripod configuration from the vz 37, would hate to track down (yet another) damn tripod. :)

Trent
August 29, 2013, 12:16 PM
I am curious how they modify these to fire from a closed bolt. Do they add a hammer or something?

All of the "open bolt machineguns" which are converted to semiauto have the addition of a striker - a separate chunk of metal that hangs back on the sear while the rest of the bolt goes in to battery. (DSHK, RPD, PKM, Vz 37).

On some rifles this striker is made of a piece of the original block, bandsaw cut off of the original bolt group - just whacked right off the back (RPD, DSHK). On other rifles, the striker is a newly manufactured component.

Essentially it turns the back of the bolt, which generally operates in open-bolt slam-fire mode, to a two piece affair that has two springs - one for the bolt assembly, one for the striker.

Other closed bolt / hammer fire / sear fired guns had trigger pack modifications to fire in single-shot, but the bolt itself received minimal (if any) modifications to accommodate single fire. (My german MG-34, MG-42 are like this). This moves the complexity of the changes from the actual operating mechanism to the trigger group. It also means that replacement parts for the wear pieces are MUCH easier to obtain, and don't require custom fitting (generally).

(The trigger group on open bolt machineguns such as RPD, DSHK, Sten, vz 37, etc is really nothing more than a lever that moves another lever out of the way from a ledge on the bottom of the bolt... people don't understand how insanely simple some machinegun designs are, nothing "complex" at all about them!)

Closed bolt machineguns are much more complex (if you ever get the opportunity to examine an MG34 bolt, you'll see more machining required than in an entire M14 rifle...). Whereas open bolt machineguns are exceptionally simple.

Funny, but the simpler the machinegun, sometimes the harder it is to make it work semi-auto. :)

JohnnyK
August 29, 2013, 08:36 PM
i called malcolmar and they said they should be able to ship next week! :)

Trent
August 29, 2013, 09:27 PM
i called malcolmar and they said they should be able to ship next week! :)

Mine should be shipping about the same time. Got an e-mail asking for my FFL info today. Can't wait!

19-3Ben
August 29, 2013, 09:33 PM
However, I still think that dropping 4k on a firearm of such marginal utility is well, quite frankly, nuts.

I do get it. Very much so. I think it would be a really fun gun, as well as a gun that definitely fills the roll of the original purpose/intent of the 2A much better than many of the rifles most of us have. It's good to know a guy with a gun like this one.

JohnnyK
August 30, 2013, 09:13 PM
they will be calling me for ffl and final payment next week... i found loading these belts by hand isnt that bad... going to load a full 250 round belt today... hoping to be able to break her in in the next 2 weeks.

Trent
August 30, 2013, 11:27 PM
they will be calling me for ffl and final payment next week... i found loading these belts by hand isnt that bad... going to load a full 250 round belt today... hoping to be able to break her in in the next 2 weeks.

Yeah these belts (from the pictures I've seen now), doesn't look bad at all, at least, compared to the evil fully-enclosed Zb Vz 37 belts, or the type A RPD belts.

EDIT: Dave says run these wet (lots of lube) for a while for the break in. Milled receivers need a bit of time to break in.

JohnnyK
August 31, 2013, 08:49 PM
ill be using froglube which is nontoxic and treats the metal... see how it works... i loaded a 250 round belt in about 10-15 mins and came up with a neat trick that helps loading go pretty fast.... i can make a utube vid to explain as loaders are nonexistant... are you going to get the rail for the vz 59 Trent? its a project in the works... i think a red dot would be a sweet option on one of these rifles.

xxjumbojimboxx
August 31, 2013, 08:53 PM
ok so I took the plunge... after 2 years of busting my ass... 70-80+ hour weeks... over 900 hours of studying for 1 test (took 3 tries to pass) while working full time to pass high school math content exam... I got my first teaching contract and as my reward I'm getting a vz 59 from Malcolmar Firearms... down payment is en route... I've got 880 rounds of 7.62x 54r en route along with 2 250 round belts and cans.... the gun will also come with another 250 round belt and can and a 50 round belt and can also... I can't wait to load all the belts and break this baby in properly :) they are also going to make a rail mount so I can put on a red dot...
now waiting is the hard part... :D


http://www.marcolmarfirearms.com/images/2296367be4d35289a3e043a4d79a112f.jpghttp://www.marcolmarfirearms.com/images/2296367be4d35289a3e043a4d79a112f.jpg
Make sure you clean the living you know what outta that gun if your running that surplus silvertip stuff that comes in 880 round crates..

It would be a damn shame to destroy the barrel/chamber. and maybe the receiver of such a nice gun because you shot corrosive ammo and didn't clean it.



Congrats By the way... Id love to have one.

JohnnyK
September 1, 2013, 10:20 AM
froglube treats metal and prevents rust... i just shot a few hundred rounds of corrosive in a different ak left it for a week before cleaning it and not a lick of rust and i live in humid Houston.... i'll certainly be clening this one... alot as ill be using it alot :) and yes my ammo does come in groups of 880.... :)

xxjumbojimboxx
September 1, 2013, 02:14 PM
Why risk it?

Trent
September 1, 2013, 03:09 PM
Yeah this rifle is going to be MUCH harder to clean than anything else you've ever shot. You need to thoroughly wash *all* of the parts which are exposed to gas when shooting the old soviet bloc surplus. Sometimes, more than once.

Pay special attention to carbon foul up around the piston, etc. You need to use a scraper of some type (I generally use a flat head screwdriver) to get all of it out / off the parts.

Last time I ran corrosive through my MG-42 it took 4 nights to finally get it to stop spotting. PKM isn't quite so bad, I can generally get it all in one shot. Difference there is recoil impulse method for cycling the action is delayed blowback (forcing cone) on the MG42. Makes gas get *EVERYWHERE*.

Not sure how bad these will be, if it's anything like other piston operated belt guns I have, shouldn't be too big of a deal to clean. Just judicious soap & hot HOT water. Then blow dry all the nooks and crannies with air compressor. Leave dry overnight, see if anything spots up the next day; repeat, when it comes back clean you can be sure it's good, THEN apply oil. (Otherwise, you're just delaying the corrosion with the oil for 2-3 months, and you'll find a nasty surprise next time you get it out.. currently dealing with that with my MG34... didn't get the shroud vent holes good enough last time and now have rings of rust in all of them halfway up the barrel.)

JohnnyK
September 1, 2013, 07:46 PM
arent these special chrome lined barrels?

Trent
September 2, 2013, 02:06 AM
Chrome lined isn't corrosion proof. Not by a LONG stretch.

I've had chromed parts rust within a week after being exposed to corrosive ammo.

All it does is change the "The sun never sets on a dirty barrel" phrase to "Yeah I can get around to it tomorrow morning."

But not by tomorrow evening. :)

InkEd
September 2, 2013, 03:14 AM
I am jealous!

Good thing 54R is cheap on a teacher's salary it will be impossible to feed a similar weapon in a NATO caliber. :D

JohnnyK
September 2, 2013, 02:24 PM
you got that right InkEd.... even steel case .308 isnt cheap...

Biffj
September 15, 2013, 08:30 PM
The PKM belt loader won't work. Its a different style of feed. The PKM pulls the round out of the belt and drops into a set of "feed lips" in the feed tray. When the bolt goes forward it pushes the round out of the feed tray and into the barrel. When it recoils it pulls the next round out of the belt and drops it in the feed tray ready to fire again. On the Vz59 the belt is a push through belt like the one for the MG42 or M60. What this means to you for belt loaders is that the PKM belt loader won't work even though its the same round. There are loaders for the Vz59 and we are looking at coming up with something better then the factory unit too. First things first though, the guns have to get done and shipped before the add-ons and toys. We are working on getting some original loaders, tripods and other goodies but it takes time.
As for cleaning the most important parts are of course the barrel, the flash hider, the gasblock, the piston/op-rod and the front end of the receiver. Its a good idea to clean the bolt up as well. You can shoot corrosive ammo in these and they are intended for that. The Czechs did not chrome everything like the russians however so some parts are more susceptible to rusting than others. We did have the barrels chromed and that will help but the simplest way of keeping them clean and rust free is washing them up with soap and water. Corrosive ammo isn't like liquid chlorine or nitric acid. It won't dissolve the gun overnight. What corrosive ammo does is leave a salt of potassium in the areas contacted by the hot gas from firing. The primers are made with potassium perchlorate or potassium chlorate and when the round is fired this becomes potassium chloride. This is the potassium analog of table salt....sodium chloride. What it does in the metal of your rifle is attract and hold moisture which corrodes the iron in the steel forming iron oxide. The simple cure for it is to run hot water through the parts to dissolve and wash away this salt. You can use other water based solvents though they don't do as well as simple old water. Adding soap helps to lower the surface tension of the water so it makes better contact with what it comes up against. Adding ammonia does nothing to help as the salt is not soluble in ammonia. If you use solvents like Hoppes or any of the other rifle bore solvents you will not remove the salt and unless you bury your parts in thick grease or an inert gas atmosphere you will get some rust. Using the bore cleaner after washing is a good idea but using it before the water wash is not. It will leave a film of oil or solvent on the metal that prevents the water from contacting the salt and dissolving it. You can try this very simple experiment at home and see it for yourself....

take a teaspoon of salt and put it in a small container or cup. Add some water and swirl it around. Look and see if there is still any salt in the bottom of the container. If there is than add more water and swirl again. Once you no longer see crystalline salt in the cup dump it and rinse a couple times. Add a little more water and swirl then take a taste. Do you taste salt?
Now try the same experiment with cooking oil or any other oily solvent. See if it dissolves the salt. Don't try the taste test with this stuff but you'll be able to see and feel the salt in the bottom of the container.
This is what happens in your gun. Use something that dissolves the salt and you'll have no issues with corrosive ammo. Look at all the surplus guns we've bought over the last 20 years and ask yourself how they kept them so clean and free of corrosion. Most all of them were fired with corrosive ammo for many years yet they are still shiny. Ask soldiers who carried these things how it was done and they'll tell you about cleaning parties around the campfire and boiling pots of water. Its simple and nothing to worry about. Use water first, then use your solvent or don't, then use a good oil or grease to cover the surface with a protective layer.

Hope that helps

Frank

Trent
September 17, 2013, 05:59 PM
JohnnyK... something arrived in the mail today. You get yours yet?

http://i.imgur.com/6x5ehN8l.jpg

The craftsmanship is outstanding. You certainly did well picking out a fine belt fed. The machining, fit, and finish is better than my PKM.

When the Government trusts me enough to pick it up I'll post some more detailed shots. (Got a 24 hour wait in IL on long guns, did the 4473 today...)

shootr
September 19, 2013, 05:45 AM
Congrats on a fine, fine gun! Now - let the fun begin!!

Trent
September 19, 2013, 12:05 PM
Waiting to hear from JohnnyK, don't want to step on his toes. This is his first belt fed and he's worked hard for it.

I will say one thing, what a piece of work these are. The original log for the gun was shipped with the gunners toolkit, shows it being unissued. All of the parts are brand-spanking-new in these things. How they managed to get ahold of unissued guns to get torched and imported ... that is something. These things are pristine.

Ian
September 19, 2013, 12:21 PM
Congrats, guys! I'm working on getting a loner example from MarColMar to review for my web site. :)

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