semi or revolver


PDA






Revolver Ocelot
August 25, 2013, 05:18 AM
I know the title implies the age old debate, but frankly I couldn't think of anything more eloquent to title it.

As my user name would imply, I am a revolver guy, I literally have one semi auto to my name wich is a cz 75 sp-01 tactical (and my wife being the opposite with all semi's and one revolver).

I bought the cz because I believe no one could go wrong having a semi auto for that worst case scenario where more rounds on tap would be of bennifit. But I find that shooting a semi auto feels somehow unnatural to me. When I pick up a revolver it just feels like an extension of my arm and just points so naturally while the semi autos I have to put more effort into lining up the sights on target. I feel that in a defensive scenario having to put that much more effort into getting the gun to work for you could be of disservice.

So that brings me to my question, I have been considering doing more self defense classes, and am debating should I train more into revolvers and put semi's behind me (in which case my wife who is rooting for it will run off with my cz). Or should I spend my time and money into learning to use a semi more effectively?

Any thoughts on the matter are appreciated.

If you enjoyed reading about "semi or revolver" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
tarosean
August 25, 2013, 07:49 AM
I would just take the classes your interested in with your revolver (s). Your more comfortable and more proficient with them. Invest in speedloaders or moon clips and have at it.

bannockburn
August 25, 2013, 08:11 AM
I would say go with whatever gun you feel most comfortable with using. In your case I think you should stick to your guns, literally, and do your classes with a revolver.

olderguns
August 25, 2013, 08:20 AM
I have a few auto's but I shoot revolvers much much better, so give her the one she likes and you stick to the ones you 're better with

SC Shooter
August 25, 2013, 08:48 AM
I tend to be more on the semi side although I do have a couple of revolvers. I love my Browing Hi-Power for it quality and accuracy, but my favorite is my Mackarov 9x18mm. It's good at the range, and is a great carry weapon. It feels good in your hand and good on your hip.

Go with your comfort level.

HexHead
August 25, 2013, 09:27 AM
If you feel you need more rounds, use a NY Reload. Carry two revolvers, it's faster than Speedloaders.

MrDig
August 25, 2013, 10:06 AM
There is a third option, train up with the CZ and get more comfortable with it and then give it to your wife because she likes it.
"Honey I'm going to use your gun for awhile because I want to be good at multiple platforms, If I ever need to use your gun after that I will know it better and be ore comfortable with it."

You will have skills with two platforms and a happy bride, win win.

460Kodiak
August 25, 2013, 11:05 AM
If you're comfortable with and shoot your revolvers better than other guns, that's fine. I see no reason to give up the CZ though, unless you really just hate it.

Old Fuff
August 25, 2013, 01:53 PM
I am hard put to find examples where a civilian (as opposed to law enforcement officers) get into shooting incidents where a reload is necessary.

If your wife likes the CZ (which in my opinion is a fine pistol) let her have it, and on your part stick with revolvers unless you find another pistol that you really like and do well with.

A top quality hand-ejector revolver is reliable, and not ammunition dependent when it comes to functioning. It can be fired from any position without hitting one with hot ejecting brass. Limp wristing malfunctions are not an issue. They are absolutely safe to carry without any worries about manual safeties. Unlike some sub-compact pistols short barrels do not compromise reliability.

But since "spray & pray" style shooting isn't an option, marksmanship skills are important. Therefore go to school and master them.

(The Old Fuff will now run to get into his bunker... :D)

BlindJustice
August 25, 2013, 04:41 PM
Q for the O.P.

What kind of revolvers do you have or
consider for a def. pistol class?

FWIW I shoot a S&W 625 .45 ACP and a S&W 60 3" .357 Mag
love em, but also very much like my CZ 75B as well as a 1911

R-

Revolver Ocelot
August 25, 2013, 04:49 PM
I see no reason to give up the CZ though, unless you really just hate it

I actually am quite fond of the cz, even if for nothing more than a range pistol. That being said though, my wife has been begging me for one, so if forking it over will make her happy then so be it, besides, it's not like I'll never see it again.

OptimusPrime
August 25, 2013, 05:11 PM
Give it to the wife and earn yourself some brownie points. Those come in handy more than a weapon would anyway, I hope.

Revolver Ocelot
August 25, 2013, 05:18 PM
Give it to the wife and earn yourself some brownie points. Those come in handy more than a weapon would anyway, I hope.

My wife has more guns than I do, (the first one I got her being a colt gold cup) I would think I'd be maxed out on brownie points by now, but who knows.

If I give her the cz (which she wants to shoot uspsa with it) I'll probably send off my gp100 to Gemini to get the same treatment my sp101 got, I think it'd make a nice pair for a new York reload.

Now I'd just have to figure out how to reasonably carry both at the same time...

easyg
August 25, 2013, 08:09 PM
while the semi autos I have to put more effort into lining up the sights on target. I feel that in a defensive scenario having to put that much more effort into getting the gun to work for you could be of disservice.
Maybe you just have the wrong auto.

Some autos point very naturally for me.
Others not so much.
Glocks point high for me, and so I have to align the sights.
But XD's point right on target every time.

Revolver Ocelot
August 25, 2013, 08:15 PM
my issues with sight alignment are probably due to my grip, or possibly the sites them selves being too distracting (3 dot sights). I don't seem to have a problem with the vertical alignment, just the side to side. When I draw the pistol and take my time I have little issue, it's when I try to do it with any speed I find my sight alignment gets jacked up and I end up with a grip more appropriate for a revolver on it, just muscle memory I guess.

I'm sure this is something I could train myself out of with out (hopefully) hurting my abilities with a revolver, but that leaves me to think the time I spend learning to use a semi could just as well be used to become better with a revolver.

Bob M.
August 25, 2013, 08:31 PM
I actually am quite fond of the cz, even if for nothing more than a range pistol. That being said though, my wife has been begging me for one, so if forking it over will make her happy then so be it, besides, it's not like I'll never see it again.

That's what I say. It's not like it's going anywhere. That way you both should be happy. :)

tomrkba
August 25, 2013, 09:24 PM
So that brings me to my question, I have been considering doing more self defense classes, and am debating should I train more into revolvers and put semi's behind me (in which case my wife who is rooting for it will run off with my cz). Or should I spend my time and money into learning to use a semi more effectively?

I know the question pertains to revolver vs semi, but bear with me. Keep in mind that there is only one Jerry Miculek and very few master class revolver competitors. You are likely neither, so it is critical that you learn the techniques correctly in class and practice properly at home. Otherwise, you wasted your money and time. Frequent practice is required and you need to put a lot of rounds through your guns.

I have trained extensively with semi-autos and once with revolvers. Training with N-Frame revolvers was a very different experience. First, ammunition management is critical to avoid slowing down the class. Make sure you have loading blocks for speed loaders and a moon clip tool that loads and unloads clips. I recommend preloading enough moon clips equal to the round count of one day of class (or get 100 from Ranch Products and load all of them). I recommend you take at least 10 speedloaders.

Shooting patterns will be different. You may not be able to shoot as quickly as many semi-auto shooters. Your split times may be much slower, so focus upon accuracy while shooting as quickly as possible. You will be reloading during shot strings while semi-auto shooters continue through. Do not race them and focus upon correctly reloading your revolver.

Make sure to take at least two revolvers of the same frame type and similarly tuned triggers. I had one gun whose trigger stacked and it messed up my rhythm during rapid fire. The stocks should be the same so you do not need to adjust your grip. Get stocks that fit properly (Grant Cunningham covers this topic in The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver). Change put the gun when you can feel the heat through the holster. Your hand that holds the gun though the cylinder area during a reload should have a fingerless glove to prevent burns.

Quality sights are required. There is nothing worse than bringing up the gun and seeing nothing because the front sight disappeared. Make sure you have at least white dots or a gold bead, though night sights with white outlines would be best.

The most difficult aspect of training with a revolver is finding instructors that a proficient in their use in a defensive context. This is not your average instructor. They need to understand the different methods for reloading the guns and managing that trigger. Most guys do not have these skills. There is quite a bit of revolver lore out there, but you will have to work to find it.

Semi-automatics do have the advantage in speed, capacity, and ease of use. A proficient revolver shooter can keep up in speed, as well as time to first shot. However, more training time is required to get there. Many people claim a revolver is easier to use. On the face of it, that is true since anyone can slowly insert cartridges into a cylinder. However, running a revolver is much more complex. The reloads and manipulations are much more complicated to do at speed. Shooting rapidly, while scoring good hits, is difficult. Revolver shooters must practice longer and harder to master these skills. If you are willing to put the time and round count in, then train with them. But, you will advance faster with semi-autos.

420Stainless
August 25, 2013, 09:37 PM
I happen to like both and prefer to carry semi autos for the flat profile. However, you seem to have a strong preference for revolvers and I don't believe you will be underserved with one.

tomrkba
August 25, 2013, 09:48 PM
Some autos point very naturally for me.
Others not so much.
Glocks point high for me, and so I have to align the sights.
But XD's point right on target every time.

How a gun points is not the issue. Using the sights, or figuring out what horizontal means for the gun when point shooting, are the important parts because both override how a gun points. Glocks point very high for me. SIG P-Series guns point just right and 1911 pistols point a bit low. I have never had trouble shooting any of these because I have mastered sight picture and trigger control. Blaming the gun does nothing to improve performance. Master trigger control and sight picture first. Then master recoil management for fast shooting. Questing for the best pointing gun will never solve the problem.

Revolver Ocelot
August 25, 2013, 10:06 PM
tomrkba, thanks for the detailed post, I agree with many of the points made. I have what I would feel to be sufficient number of speed loaders, and my reload speeds are about average with most people using semi autos, but that is probably due to a lot of practice with reloads because I have fewer shots so that is indeed a double edged sword.

But the biggest hurdle I have had is as you put it, there are not a lot of instructors out there that are proficient with a revolver. I practice a lot by my standards and don't feel I would practice any more than I do now if I was using a semi, but over the years I have had a preferences and trained into it, and now I find that to move to the next step in training my preference puts me at a disadvantage.

tomrkba
August 25, 2013, 10:53 PM
How many rounds to you shoot a month with an agenda at the range? I found out the hard way that 22 LR does not count due to recoil differences. My guess, from my experience, that this number needs to be close to 500 in order to improve.

I think the revolver is fine for civilian self-defense so long as you use the revolver for its strengths. This means using more powerful calibers such as 357 Magnum, 10mm, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 454 Casul, 45 Colt, 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim. The smaller guns have been eclipsed by compact semi-autos that run well. I see no point in limiting myself to five rounds of 38 Special from a 1 7/8 inch barrel when Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 9x19mm JHP exists. 38 Special just doesn't compare well at all. My Glock 19 gets 1150 FPS with 124 grain Gold Dots.

Snubbie revolvers are just too tough to deal with. I do not like shooting my guns with three inch barrels. I do far better with a four inch barrel, and even better with a gun with a five inch barrel. The four inch guns carry well for me, so I prefer those.

If I were going to carry a revolver daily, my primary gun would have the following attributes:

1) 357 Magnum or 44 Magnum caliber.
2) Four inch barrel
3) Herrets Stocks Jordan Troopers cut to boot length. Round butt profile.
4) Night sights
5) Chamfered charge holes
6) Stainless steel frames, no alloys if at all possible
7) Seven or eight shot capacity in 357 Magnum. Six shot capacity is the only viable option in 44 Magnum. I would prefer 357 Magnum due to capacity.
8) Tuned trigger

I would carry Speer Gold Dots in either 44 Special or Magnum because they are tuned for defense.

I think you will do fine if you stick to revolver classes and competitions. Ayoob, De Bethancourt, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Sand Burr Gun Ranch and a few others still teach revolver shooting in a defensive context. I would shell out the money for the Thunder Ranch class if I were going to completely switch to revolver for daily carry. I would still attend SouthNarc's ECQC course regardless of platform used (just tell him you will need 38 Special Simunitions). I would also attend "Point Shooting Progressions" with Roger Phillips because it is a MOVEMENT class (moving and shooting is an essential skill).

Revolver Ocelot
August 25, 2013, 11:07 PM
my edc is a 3" sp101 in 357 that has been fine tuned by gemini, and a 4" gp100 on days I can get away with it, though many times I will carry the sp101 even when I could carry the gp just because of the sights in trigger are so much better.

I'm still debating whether to send the gp to Gemini or get an n frame 8 shot to have a revolver before I move forward with anymore classes (leaning towards the gp100), but that is another matter entirely.

Thanks for the tips tomrkba, you are certainly making this feel like switching to revolver exclusively may be accomplishable.

tomrkba
August 25, 2013, 11:21 PM
you are certainly making this feel like switching to revolver exclusively may be accomplishable.

It is a difficult challenge. The wiser move is to go with non-1911 semi-autos, but people used revolvers for a long time in a pre-NFA world. Since your primary adversary is the civilian criminal, the revolver (with backup) should be fine. Always carry two!

As for the GP100, that is a hard call. My main issue with the Rugers is the length of the grip. Herretts needs the gun to fit the stocks. The stocks cost $150+ alone. They will have it for three months or so. If you are going for it, then another GP100 makes more sense. Alternatively, dump the first GP100 and get two pre-LOCK S&W 686+ revolvers. If you prefer N-Frames, then your choices are more limited if you do not like THE LOCK and substandard parts (which is why I use 44's).

Also consider how to carry spare ammo because it is difficult to conceal comfortably. I have switched to SAFARILAND Comp I loaders for 44. I have their #371 split belt holder and it is nice. They offer holders for the Rugers and S&W guns. I get them here:

http://speedloaderstore.com/contents/en-us/d45.html

Revolver Ocelot
August 26, 2013, 04:49 PM
Up until now I have preferred rugers for a number of reasons, I have a few other s&w revolvers but nothing that I feel could serve well as a primary weapon. At this point the gp100 is the best I've got, but I have been leaning towards getting a 627 or 625 (probably 627 because it doesn't have to have moon clips to work). Only thing that bugs me about the ruger over the smith, out of everything is that there are no options for fixed sights unless I hunt down one of the rarer fixed sight 357 models that are no longer made.

tomrkba
August 26, 2013, 05:34 PM
Hmm...I think Bowen has a fixed rear sight. I prefer adjustables since they seem robust enough for EDC.

I would put XS Sights (small dot) on it, chamfer the charge holes, swap the grips, and tune the trigger.

Have you checked out Sand Burr Gun Ranch's gunsmithing services and classes?

Revolver Ocelot
August 27, 2013, 12:26 AM
I haven't, I usually get services on my rugers done at Gemini, thus far marc's work has been top notch. I looked at the bowen sights, but the amount of play left in the adjustable sights have left some concern about possibly damaging them in a scuffle. I haven't had an issue with fixed sights at any range under 25 yards yet.

I have some basic machining capabilities at work so I have been playing around with the idea of measuring the dimensions to fill the gap on the op of my gp100 and trying to machine my own sight for it.

I usually get gold dot sights on most all of my guns, I know they aren't for everybody, but they have worked very well for me so far.

tomrkba
August 27, 2013, 07:56 AM
How well do the gold beads work in low light conditions compared to night sights? I have never tried true gold bead sights and I like the idea that it never needs refreshing.

Revolver Ocelot
August 27, 2013, 10:06 AM
night sights will always be easier to see at night of course, but as long as you have enough light to identify your target there is enough light for the gold bead.

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 27, 2013, 11:37 AM
I say keep it. I traded my AK that I didn't shoot for over 6 months for a S&W586 instead of trading my CZ75B. Now I have two great handguns! I do carry both (just need a new holster for the revolver) and don't feel under equipped at all.

David E
August 27, 2013, 12:12 PM
I found out the hard way that 22 LR does not count due to recoil differences.

Then you should reconsider your practice regimen.

Why would recoil matter at all if you were working to improve the speed of your first shot on target?

The sight picture still needs to be right, the trigger pull still needs to be correct, regardless of recoil.

If a gun is "hard to handle," like a snubby, then lack of recoil can help ingrain proper execution of the basics prior to going to the center fire version.

A .22 isn't a one-to-one substitute for the center fire, but it still counts for something.

David E
August 27, 2013, 12:29 PM
I like the idea that it never needs refreshing.

Refreshing? Like, shining a light on them? If so, time to upgrade!

The better night sights don't need to be refreshed, just replaced every 10-15 years.

The best low light non-glowing sights I've found were made by MMC that had a single, thin white line going up the center. Paired with a white outline rear, it works pretty well.

Revolver Ocelot
August 27, 2013, 12:37 PM
The better night sights don't need to be refreshed, just replaced every 10-15 years.

I think that's what he meant when he said they need to be refreshed, unless you are being sarcastic.

David E
August 27, 2013, 01:01 PM
I think that's what he meant when he said they need to be refreshed, unless you are being sarcastic.

No, I've seen quite a few folks with "night sights" that had to be charged with a flashlight first.

Revolver Ocelot
August 27, 2013, 01:19 PM
really? I suppose someone out there has probably painted their sights with glow paint but, it just seems so lazy.

mavracer
August 27, 2013, 01:30 PM
Yes really
http://www.nitesiters.com/Nitesiters_Handgun_Night_Sights.html

jim243
August 27, 2013, 02:01 PM
Some night sights need to be recharged before use like those that come on the Beretta PX4 Storm, some have a radioactive element in a tube like those found on the Kimber 1911's. Both work just differently.

The single issue as I see it is that the grips and hand holds are substantially different on a revolver than a pistol. Trying to be a master of both I feel will mess you up. Learning a new system of gripping and shooting at this point I think would be counter productive. Unless that is your objective.

There is a reason revolver shooters like and stick with revolvers. As a semi-auto (pistol) shooter for over 40 years, I can use a revolver but not as well as a pistol. Some people fish with fly rods, not me I use spinning rods, they just work better for me.

I would give up the SP-01 to the little lady and get yourself a CZ 75 B full size for range shooting. The grip on that gun is fantastic as far as I am concerned. (molded right to the hand)

This is just my view on these posts, you need to use what you are most comfortable with.
Jim

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/SAM_0501.jpg (http://s620.photobucket.com/user/bigjim_02/media/SAM_0501.jpg.html)

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/SAM_0328.jpg (http://s620.photobucket.com/user/bigjim_02/media/SAM_0328.jpg.html)

javjacob
August 27, 2013, 02:58 PM
im a revolver guy. actually cant stand pistols. revolvers are better looking, simple, reliable and durable. you don't have to worry about the gun jamming ect. also the most powerful hand guns are revolvers.

Revolver Ocelot
August 27, 2013, 05:10 PM
Yes really


wow, that makes me sad, I can't see myself pulling a pistol from a holster where it has been shielded from light all day and telling the perp hold on a sec while I recharge my night sights. but I guess there is something for everyone.

I would give up the SP-01 to the little lady and get yourself a CZ 75 B full size for range shooting. The grip on that gun is fantastic as far as I am concerned. (molded right to the hand)


The all cz 75 sp-01's are full size, I think you may be confusing it with the p-01. My issue isn't with the size of the gun, but rather comfort level between revolver and semi.

tomrkba
August 27, 2013, 09:42 PM
The better night sights don't need to be refreshed, just replaced every 10-15 years.

I have many guns with Trijicon night sights and replacing them at $110 installed is expensive. Leave it to a forum to divert into a conversation about cheap sights when I specifically mentioned XS Sights for revolvers ;)

RE: Recoil

The problem are the split times for double taps, Hearts and Minds, and Zippers. 22 LR trains the shooter for...rapid fire with 22 LR. It may benefit the shooter with light 38 Special, but did nothing for me in class with full 38 Special, 357 Magnum and 45 ACP. The point is that there is no slide and spring to assist with recoil along with a short reset on a lighter trigger. The trigger's return affects the next shot and must be done as the gun settles back into position. The heavy pull must be started immediately and in such a way as to not disturb sight alignment at the critical moment. Cunningham documents this in his book. Doing otherwise means the shooter is doing a controlled pair. I generally get from .23-.33 seconds between shots with a revolver and consistently do .15-.18 with a Glock. I figure in 500,000 rounds I will be 1/4 as good as Mr. Miculek, which is likely more than enough for most fights. I really need to attend one of his classes.

tomrkba
August 27, 2013, 09:48 PM
BTW, I dislike the CZ pistols. I had too many jams with the two 75 B's I tried. The Kadet was worthless.

Old Fuff
August 27, 2013, 10:05 PM
I generally get from .23-.33 seconds between shots with a revolver ...

Boy!!! Am I impressed. That's 3 or 4 shots in one second give or take, and I suppose it includes recovery time between shots. I presume you are using center fire cartridges that offer serious performance to boot. What distance and what does the target look like? Can you do it one-handed?

Revolver Ocelot
August 27, 2013, 10:28 PM
Keep the CZ (nice gun!) and practice with a revolver. regardless of the outcome the cz will stay in this home, the wife and I both like, I just don't like it for what I bought it for. Worst that will happen is my wife will be able to call it hers and I will have a new revolver.

orionengnr
August 27, 2013, 10:48 PM
I think you have gotten some very good advice, and an affirmation of your "handle".

I know I learned something from reading this thread, if only to confirm what I "thought" I knew.

I love my revolvers, but I am not really comfortable unless I have my M57 or M25...and then I'm uncomfortable (in a whole different way, but you got that already, or will when you pass 55 and your third spine surgery). Ah, to be young again.

So I carry what I shoot best--a 1911, but a Scandium framed 4"er, to make some of the weight disappear. FWIW, I've tried the Scandium framed revolvers, and they are a wonder, but my wrists can't deal with .357 Mag recoil from a 13-oz j-frame, and even the 325 is a lot less pleasant than a similarly weighted 1911.

Thanks to TomRKBA and Old Fuff--very well written posts.

Steve CT
August 27, 2013, 11:18 PM
I own more revolvers than pistols, and I generally like shooting revolvers more than semi auto pistols.

If I'm ever in a situation that I really need a handgun, it's most likely going to be a HiCap 9 mm that I'm reaching for. At that point in time, it's a numbers game, and 14+1 in 9 mm pretty much beats anything else I own.

tomrkba
August 27, 2013, 11:37 PM
Boy!!! Am I impressed. That's 3 or 4 shots in one second give or take, and I suppose it includes recovery time between shots. I presume you are using center fire cartridges that offer serious performance to boot. What distance and what does the target look like? Can you do it one-handed?

No, that stinks and it's minute of small paper plate (6-8 inches) at 21 feet with standard 38 Special. I occasionally throw shots out due to trigger reset issues. I tend toward the high end, though sometimes I have a good day.

I'll take the timer to the range and see what I can do with the TRR8 with 38 and 357. Hopefully I'll get the S&W Model 29 back soon...that'll be fun with long times between shots. Remington UMC 180 grain will throw some nice orange fireballs.

tomrkba
August 27, 2013, 11:46 PM
So I carry what I shoot best--a 1911, but a Scandium framed 4"er, to make some of the weight disappear. FWIW, I've tried the Scandium framed revolvers, and they are a wonder, but my wrists can't deal with .357 Mag recoil from a 13-oz j-frame, and even the 325 is a lot less pleasant than a similarly weighted 1911.

Yeah, I dislike the high recoil rounds from the J-Frames and even Ruger SP-101. It's just not fun any more. Even 44 Magnum isn't much fun for me. I much prefer a gun with five inch barrel (four is a compromise) in a smaller caliber.

David E
August 27, 2013, 11:47 PM
I have many guns with Trijicon night sights and replacing them at $110 installed is expensive. Leave it to a forum to divert into a conversation about cheap sights when I specifically mentioned XS Sights for revolvers ;)

It was your phrase "recharge the night sights" that struck me.

RE: Recoil

The problem are the split times for double taps, Hearts and Minds, and Zippers. 22 LR trains the shooter for...rapid fire with 22. I generally get from .23-.33 seconds between shots with a revolver

What are your splits with a .22 revolver vs a .357?

and consistently do .15-.18 with a Glock.

Compared to what with a .22?

I specifically said a .22 isn't exactly the same as a center fire, but its far from worthless as you said.

tomrkba
August 28, 2013, 01:46 PM
I specifically said a .22 isn't exactly the same as a center fire, but its far from worthless as you said.

You have expanded the context beyond my intention. The 22 LR is fine for general practice. However, it is not useful for training high speed shooting with the revolver. It is good to start with because you will learn trigger control and reset. However, the recoil differences between rimfire and center fire cartridges is such that center fire practice is required. There is almost no overlap. I know this because I trained for a year on 22's and it did not translate to center fire shooting.

I don't spend range time like most folks either. I generally build an agenda based upon task and set a round count for it. I repeat that until I see improvement. I did quite a bit of research trying to figure out what the revolver needs for high performance shooting. Most of it is high round count, but some techniques certainly help. My personal next step is to attend a *shooting* handgun course under a revolver instructor. My last attempt with a revolver involved an instructor who knew only semi-autos in a defensive context and didn't have the revolver shooting lore that is being lost.

What are your splits with a .22 revolver vs a .357?

Good question...I never checked my performance with the K18 or 617. I shoot both quite fast.

I probably just need to go find an IPSC or ICORE match somewhere. I bet some of the revolver shooters can clear up a few things for me.

David E
August 28, 2013, 02:42 PM
The 22 LR is fine for general practice. However, it is not useful for training high speed shooting with the revolver. It is good to start with because you will learn trigger control and reset.

Then it's useful!

However, the recoil differences between rimfire and center fire cartridges is such that center fire practice is required.

Of course it's required! But if you're able to get the basics ingrained with a .22, then it's easier and faster to get the center fire up to speed.

There is almost no overlap. I know this because I trained for a year on 22's and it did not translate to center fire shooting.

Yes, there is overlap. You even cited some of it above, which I bolded.

I did quite a bit of research trying to figure out what the revolver needs for high performance shooting. Most of it is high round count, but some techniques certainly help.

High round count is very important, but isn't the main component. Grip and trigger pull matter more. Once you have mastered those, then it's time to address recoil management, which requires round count.

(how fast can i shoot a .22 revolver?) Good question...I never checked my performance with the K18 or 617. I shoot both quite fast.

I think you'll discover that your splits are pretty close! Once you realize you're pulling the trigger at the same speed, regardless of caliber, you'll then realize its your recoil management that needs the attention.

Mat, not doormat
August 29, 2013, 07:33 PM
You're more comfortable with the revolver because you've used them more. Holding a couple of pounds of steel at arms' length, trying to keep it accurately directed with most of your fingers while doing something completely different with one of them is not a natural act, but a trained one. You've trained yourself to do it with a revolver, now train yourself to do it with a semi.

Semi autos work. They have for years. Revolvers work, too, but are more challenging to shoot well.

If the fecal matter ever does hit the rotating impeller, do you really want to be stuck doing things the hard way, when your and your family's necks are on the block?

Learn to shoot the semi. It's not hard, compared to the revolver, and it will pay dividends.

tomrkba
August 29, 2013, 08:15 PM
Yes, there is overlap. You even cited some of it above, which I bolded.

I am not conceding any point and I said *almost* no overlap. Shooting 22 LR quickly is not effective in teaching rapid fire in a center fire revolver.

I agree that I need to do more work with trigger control and recoil management. That is on the list.

David E
August 29, 2013, 08:25 PM
I am not conceding any point and I said *almost* no overlap. Shooting 22 LR quickly is not effective in teaching rapid fire in a center fire revolver.

Interesting.

I agree that I need to do more work with trigger control and recoil management.

I wish You good luck in your quest.

Revolver Ocelot
August 29, 2013, 09:22 PM
Semi autos work. They have for years. Revolvers work, too, but are more challenging to shoot well.

If the fecal matter ever does hit the rotating impeller, do you really want to be stuck doing things the hard way, when your and your family's necks are on the block?

Learn to shoot the semi. It's not hard, compared to the revolver, and it will pay dividends.


I feel this is subjective, I don't think either in itself is fundamentally harder than the other, but rather you view the revolver as more difficult than the semi for the same reason I view the semi as more difficult than the revolver.

You are correct though that operating either is not a natural act, and therefore it would in theory be just as easy to train to one as the other, at this point training to use a semi would be fighting muscle memory. Doesn't mean its not worth doing, that is just what's up for debate.

David E
August 29, 2013, 10:02 PM
I feel this is subjective, I don't think either in itself is fundamentally harder than the other,

No, it's not subjective. Jeff Copper learned in the 70's that "the revolver took 25% longer" to attain the same level of mastery as the semi-auto. But it turns out it's 20 hours vs 25 hours, so invest another 5 hours if you're a serious student of the craft.

But I suspect this didn't involve DA/SA autos, which no doubt would've skewed Coopers observations.

The nice thing about a Glock/M&P/XD is, they're easy to shoot. The downside is, they're easy to shoot......

A revolver is a very versatile tool. It can be mastered.....and it should be, regardless of your platform preference.

Mat, not doormat
August 29, 2013, 10:45 PM
Ok, next time you head to the range, take your SP-01 and your favorite revolver, a standard IPSC target and a shot timer. Load both guns to capacity, along with your choice of ammunition management devices for the revolver. Stand back ten yards, and at the buzzer, put twenty rounds in the A- zone. Record your time. Now switch guns and rigs, and do it again. Record your time.

Now come back here and tell me how subjective you feel the difference is.

In a gunfight, there are simply better things to do with your gun than take it out of action to stuff more bullets into it, and yet that's exactly what those who carry six shooters (or even, gawd help us, five shooters) are signing up for.

Ps- in honor of your other thread, feel free to take the above test with your four favorite revolvers. ;p

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

Deer_Freak
August 29, 2013, 10:59 PM
If you learn to use speed loaders you can shoot a revolver very quickly. People that shoot revolvers usually win one course of fire in IDPA match. If you are smart with your reloads you never have an empty gun.

Shoot the gun you are comfortable shooting and carrying. Don't feel handicapped if you choose a revolver.

Old Fuff
August 29, 2013, 11:08 PM
Ok, next time you head to the range, take your SP-01 and your favorite revolver, a standard IPSC target and a shot timer. Load both guns to capacity, along with your choice of ammunition management devices for the revolver. Stand back ten yards, and at the buzzer, put twenty rounds in the A- zone. Record your time. Now switch guns and rigs, and do it again. Record your time.

Ah....

Where are all of these gunfights being conducted where a civilian (as opposed to law enforcement) have to do any speed loading? Watching TV or popular "combat" shooting games doesn't count.

Of course one can't do much double-triple taps with a revolver, so marksanship ability under maximum stress is required. But when one is responsible for the consequences of every shot they fire (intended or unintended) this might be an advantage.

In the civilian environment sometimes no shots are fired. When the bad guy discovers his potential victim is armed they beat-feet. In other instances when lead starts flying from both directions they disapear. :uhoh:

Mat, not doormat
August 30, 2013, 01:45 AM
Ah....

Where are all of these gunfights being conducted where a civilian (as opposed to law enforcement) have to do any speed loading? Watching TV or popular "combat" shooting games doesn't count.

Of course one can't do much double-triple taps with a revolver, so marksanship ability under maximum stress is required. But when one is responsible for the consequences of every shot they fire (intended or unintended) this might be an advantage.

In the civilian environment sometimes no shots are fired. When the bad guy discovers his potential victim is armed they beat-feet. In other instances when lead starts flying from both directions they disapear. :uhoh:
Where is the memo that tells what kind of a gunfight yours may turn out to be? I must not have gotten mine.

Sure, it might not involve shooting at all. It might resemble the oft cited 2-3 rounds at 7 feet. It might. It might also look more like the encounters of Lance Thomas (http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?45333-Urban-Gunfighter-(-The-Lance-Thomas-story)), the LA jeweler.

Until it happens, if it ever happens at all, you'll never know. If you're going to go to the trouble of owning, practicing with, and carrying a gun, why pick one that's barely adequate at best? After all, a little overkill never hurt anyone. :neener:

Revolver Ocelot
August 30, 2013, 02:22 AM
Now come back here and tell me how subjective you feel the difference is

Done that, time to first shot was faster with the revolver, splits were better with the semi.

Both have their benefit, at that time I felt being the first round fired served better than the sequential shots.

armsmaster270
August 30, 2013, 02:26 AM
I go both ways, my daily CCW
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/armsmaster270/Guns/dec08-feb09130.jpg

My collection
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/armsmaster270/Guns/handguns.jpg

Mat, not doormat
August 30, 2013, 03:45 AM
Sounds like you need more practice with the semi. If you're a proficient double action shooter, the only thing that'd be slowing you down is unfamiliarity with the platform.

Revolver Ocelot
August 30, 2013, 04:31 AM
Sounds like you need more practice with the semi. If you're a proficient double action shooter, the only thing that'd be slowing you down is unfamiliarity with the platform.

I am inclined to agree, all the issues I have with a semi are training related and are correctable as such. But I am at that point where I could go the route of further improving my skill set with one, or use that time to learn the other.

Mat, not doormat
August 30, 2013, 05:57 AM
To tell the truth, you're always going to be at that point. At least I am. I've got multiple interests in shooting, so it's always a bit of a juggling act to maintain skills, increase skills, and add new ones, across several rifles, pistols, revolvers and shotguns. It takes something akin to triage to assess and decide what's good enough, and what needs work.

tomrkba
August 30, 2013, 08:29 AM
Based upon what I just read, RO should attend a two day defensive handgun course with a semi-auto. At that point, he will be able to make a more informed decision.

tomrkba
August 30, 2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrkba
I am not conceding any point and I said *almost* no overlap. Shooting 22 LR quickly is not effective in teaching rapid fire in a center fire revolver.
Interesting.


In talking with an instructor of mine, he pointed out that the 22 LR is useful for learning the fundamentals of shooting. However, for training, it is necessary to move beyond it into standard cartridges for defense. The reason is that too much training with a 22 in either handgun or long gun makes the student sloppy. It allows mistakes to creep in that do not show up with the 22, but very definitely appear with more powerful guns. It is for this reason he requires students to use full power cartridges in class unless their defensive firearm is chambered in 22 LR due to some physical limitation.

David E
August 30, 2013, 12:49 PM
In talking with an instructor of mine, he pointed out that the 22 LR is useful for learning the fundamentals of shooting.

So he also thinks a .22 is far from useless....
We agree if that includes rapid DA shooting with good groups.

However, for training, it is necessary to move beyond it into standard cartridges for defense.

Of course! Which is why I said the same thing three times now. BUT if you suck with a .22, what makes you think you'd improve with a center fire?

The reason is that too much training with a 22 in either handgun or long gun makes the student sloppy.

This is a student issue.

It allows mistakes to creep in that do not show up with the 22, but very definitely appear with more powerful guns.

I've always told my students that bad or poorly executed technique won't reveal itself with .22's OR slow fire. But add some power and speed and things change fast. However, if you haven't mastered the fundamentals with a .22 or light loads, then putting full house magnums in your alloy framed gun will be wasting ammo.

Many years ago, several of my friends and I bought the Crosman CO2 revolvers that looked like a 6" Colt Python. It had a rough, heavy DA pull. No kick, very little noise. In a basement I took my friends gun and quickly ripped off six shots at an empty box across the room, making a 1.5" group. I didn't think much about it until I glanced at my friend who literally had dropped his jaw in disbelief. He couldn't do that slow fire, much less DA rapid fire. The point is, unless and until you master the DA pull, you're wasting time and ammo going to full power centerfire loads.

Once you've done so, THEN it's time to work on recoil management and sight acquisition, which is where proper technique executed properly comes in.

A .22 is far from useless. It's a shortcut that, if utilized correctly, can get you to your destination sooner.

stinger 327
August 30, 2013, 04:24 PM
im a revolver guy. actually cant stand pistols. revolvers are better looking, simple, reliable and durable. you don't have to worry about the gun jamming ect. also the most powerful hand guns are revolvers.
I like both revolvers and autos.

tomrkba
August 30, 2013, 04:45 PM
David E,

You are now just being annoying. I qualified it with *almost* and stated it is not useful for preparing for rapid fire with a centerfire revolver.

Go pound sand.

Gregaw
August 30, 2013, 04:54 PM
Spend the time and money shooting what you enjoy. But if you want the challenge of leaning something new, definitely learn it. If not, then I'd be willing to wager it won't shorten your life span. If you really need a semi-auto one day maybe your wife will let you borrow one! (This from someone who owns more than a handful of pistols and no revolvers.)

David E
August 30, 2013, 09:49 PM
David E,

You are now just being annoying. I qualified it with *almost* and stated it is not useful for preparing for rapid fire with a centerfire revolver.

Go pound sand.

How very "High Road" of you. :rolleyes:

Clearly, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about shooting revolvers rapidly with accuracy, much less how a .22 can assist in that quest.

Or you wouldn't say things like:


I found out the hard way that 22 LR does not count due to recoil differences

The problem are the split times for double taps.... 22 LR trains the shooter for...rapid fire with 22 LR. It may benefit the shooter with light 38 Special, but did nothing for me in class with full (loads)

I occasionally throw shots out due to trigger reset issues.

The 22 LR is fine for general practice. However, it is not useful for training high speed shooting with the revolver.

(What are your split times with a .22?).
Good question...I never checked my performance with the K18 or 617. I shoot both quite fast.

My personal next step is to attend a *shooting* handgun course under a revolver instructor.

If you take that class, I hope you do it with a more open mind than you've shown here. If so, then you'll see what I've been talking about.

Best regards.

tomrkba
August 30, 2013, 10:34 PM
Good instructors do not goad people until they get irritated. I would have walked out of your class had I seen that behavior on your range.

Say what you want; I'm unsubscribing from this thread.

David E
August 30, 2013, 11:02 PM
Good instructors do not goad people until they get irritated. I would have walked out of your class had I seen that behavior on your range.

I've had a few students start out like you; they pay money then ignore the instruction, as if to prove they already know it all and didn't really need to take the class, yet struggle to keep up. But eventually, I was able to make a breakthrough and then they "got it" and all was right with the world. Without exception, they were voted "most improved" in the class. I understand and recognize the student won't always make this transition.

Say what you want; I'm unsubscribing from this thread.

Um........ok..... :rolleyes:

Mike J
August 30, 2013, 11:03 PM
I pretty much go along with the whatever you prefer camp. Personally I shoot semi-auto's better. I do have one centerfire revolver though & I like it. It is an old Dan Wesson model 15. I tend to prefer semi's for defensive carry in populated areas but I believe there are certain attributes of revolvers that can make them a better choice for the woods.

There is something I noticed in your first post in this thread though. You commented on not liking the 3 dot sights on the CZ. There is a mod here (9mm Epiphany) that has posted many times about why he doesn't believe 3 dot sights work well. If you were to dig through his posts I am sure you could find some that referenced his thoughts on this. I wonder if you were to take some black tape & put it over the dots on the rear sight & try shooting like that if it would make a difference. Having a black rear sight with a white dot or tritium night sight on front might make a big difference.

With that said shoot what you like.

tarosean
August 31, 2013, 03:16 AM
It might also look more like the encounters of Lance Thomas, the LA jeweler.



Oh yes I knew it would be a matter of time before he was brought up.
Ill be sure to buy a 26rd STI mags if I ever open a Rolex store in one of the biggest ghettos in the US. :)

While you can find a few instances of civilians getting in gun fights they all involve targeted businesses by the criminal element.

David E
August 31, 2013, 10:57 AM
You can blacken out the white dots with a Sharpie. I'd leave the front sight alone and just black out the rear sight dots.

Some guns allow you to reverse the rear sight, but I'm not sure if the CZ is one of them.

I had the rear sight on my XD reversed and serrated and find the sight picture much better, even compared to replacement Heinie sights.

Mike J
August 31, 2013, 11:37 PM
David E I just want to clarify I wasn't meaning for the OP to leave the black tape on permanently. I was just thinking it would allow him to see if it made a difference without permanently altering the pistol.

snapshot762
August 31, 2013, 11:43 PM
My vote is to stick with what you know and like. If a revolver is better for you stick with that. Not to mention that if your wife likes the CZ and is good with it, as the saying goes Happy wife, Happy life!

Hondo 60
September 3, 2013, 09:16 PM
I carry either a Ruger SP101 or a S&W Model 38.
Both are 5-shots, & I feel plenty well armed with either.
So obviously I voted to keep what you have & know, let her have the CZ

stinger 327
September 3, 2013, 09:23 PM
I carry either a Ruger SP101 or a S&W Model 38.
Both are 5-shots, & I feel plenty well armed with either.
So obviously I voted to keep what you have & know, let her have the CZ
I like that Lipsey special edition SP-101.

Revolver Ocelot
September 4, 2013, 12:28 AM
I like that Lipsey special edition SP-101.

I'm quite fond of my sp101

https://www.geminicustoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/dsc_0005.jpg?973e3d

CraigC
September 7, 2013, 11:26 AM
You are now just being annoying. I qualified it with *almost* and stated it is not useful for preparing for rapid fire with a centerfire revolver.

Go pound sand.
I took your post the same way and I think that's how you intended it. Now you're just backpedaling. I have to agree with David E on the value of .22LR practice.


I have trained extensively with semi-autos and once with revolvers.
Then I guess folks should probably look elsewhere for credible instruction on revolver shooting.

Rob1109
September 7, 2013, 11:43 AM
I also like the NY RELOAD! 642 in the right from pocket and an LCR in left. They're so similar = makes no difference.

Best.

Tcruse
September 7, 2013, 12:19 PM
Understand your thoughts. Every time I have shot or handled a revolver, I think "Why would anyone actually want to own such a beast?" when they could own a nice Glock (or even Ruger SR or S&W M&P)

CraigC
September 7, 2013, 12:43 PM
Every time I have shot or handled a revolver, I think "Why would anyone actually want to own such a beast?" when they could own a nice Glock (or even Ruger SR or S&W M&P)
I think the same thing whenever I handle or look at a "Glock, even Ruger SR or S&W M&P". Revolvers can handle any chore, polymer autos are way too limited in their application.

22-rimfire
September 7, 2013, 12:53 PM
Understand your thoughts. Every time I have shot or handled a revolver, I think "Why would anyone actually want to own such a beast?" when they could own a nice Glock (or even Ruger SR or S&W M&P)

That's what makes the world go around. Different strokes for different folks. I prefer revolvers, but I have both.

just for fun
September 8, 2013, 12:06 AM
I sure do get tired of being told over and again about much better autos are. Shooting revolvers for over 50 years, I have yet to read for the first time ANYONE suggesting that you need to (1) put a couple hundred rounds through that revolver to "break it in" and to sure that it "likes" what your feeding it!! SAY WHAT!? and (2) continue to practice your "slap, rack, tap drill" to the point it becomes automatic when you have a malfunction with your revolver!
Thanks, Bud, I'll keep your suggestions in mind.

jim243
September 8, 2013, 01:45 AM
"Just for fun",

Everyone has a right to like what ever best suites them. So I am happy that you are happy with your revolvers.

But in all fairness, you can clear a jam or misfeed in a semi-auto, that can not be said for a revolver that would require you to take it to a gunsmith, and yes they do jam and break on occasion.

Jim

CraigC
September 8, 2013, 11:36 AM
...that can not be said for a revolver..
True but it's a much more rare occurrence. Revolvers don't fail to eject, misfeed or stovepipe and when they misfire, just try again.

Old Fuff
September 8, 2013, 01:40 PM
Today's best pistols are very reliable, even in the worst of environments. But unlike revolvers they are totally dependent on the ammunition used in them. Any handgun can be rendered useless by a mechanical failure or part breakage, but revolvers can avoid failure-to-feed/failure-to-extract or eject issues.

Meeteetse
September 8, 2013, 04:30 PM
Who cares!! You should be proficient in as many platforms/gun systems as you can, especially if you have different types around the house. Because you and your wife like both semi's and revolvers, learn to use them all well, then pick the one you like and shoot the best as your primary and she should do the same. That way you will feel comfortable no matter what gun you grab when something goes bump in the night.

Around my house, all guns are available for everyone in the house and we train that way, but we each have a favorite. I have taught and taken classes with a semi and the next time with a revolver. Variety is the spice of life.

Gun Master
September 8, 2013, 05:26 PM
Yes, I like variety too. I usually carry a S&W Airweight Bodyguard in my pocket. It's light and dependable, and doesn't tend to pull my pants down at Kroger. Mas Importante !:D I'm planning on trying a shoulder rig with my CZ-82 , when it's cooler, under my jacket. More rounds, but a little heavier.:)

jpruitt
September 8, 2013, 07:41 PM
True but it's a much more rare occurrence. Revolvers don't fail to eject, misfeed or stovepipe and when they misfire, just try again. Unless you've got a squib load.

David E
September 8, 2013, 09:43 PM
Unless you've got a squib load.

Would a semi auto handle the squib load better?

You're SOL with either platform.

Mat, not doormat
September 8, 2013, 09:55 PM
Or a high primer. Or debris on the cylinder face. Or have a primer back out. Or a stuck case. Or get one under the extractor star. Or you bend the ejector rod. Or...

There are plenty of things that can go wrong with a revolver. Many of those things are harder to fix than the equivalent problem on a semi.

People who maintain that revolvers always work are people who don't shoot them enough.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

David E
September 8, 2013, 10:32 PM
Or a high primer. Or debris on the cylinder face.

Bill Jordan properly pointed out these situations are easily tested by lifting the hammer enough to disengage the bolt and rotating the cylinder. Either of those problems will reveal itself immediately.

Or have a primer back out.

When's the last time you ever had a primer back out on a full load? Yeah, me neither.

Or a stuck case.

Don't recall the last time I had a stuck case, either. But how would a semi auto handle it better?

Or get one under the extractor star.

Proper technique prevents that.

Or you bend the ejector rod.

Never have bent one in over 30 years. How about you?

There are plenty of things that can go wrong with a revolver. Many of those things are harder to fix than the equivalent problem on a semi.

SOME of them are harder to fix, true, but not most of them. And few of the problems are "equivalent." Bad round? Pull trigger vs tap/rack/bang. Bullet profile not compatible?Non-existent vs tap/rack/bang, perhaps multiple times. Double feed? Non-existent vs lock/rip/rack-rack-rack/reload/rack.

People who maintain that revolvers always work are people who don't shoot them enough.

People who maintain that revolvers jam as often as semi autos are people who don't shoot revolvers much.

Gun Master
September 9, 2013, 12:31 AM
Or a high primer. Or debris on the cylinder face. Or have a primer back out. Or a stuck case. Or get one under the extractor star. Or you bend the ejector rod. Or...

There are plenty of things that can go wrong with a revolver. Many of those things are harder to fix than the equivalent problem on a semi.

People who maintain that revolvers always work are people who don't shoot them enough.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Dude ! Get a Hogue Grip !:what:

CraigC
September 9, 2013, 01:00 AM
Unless you've got a squib load.
Yeah, because we know that just happens all the time. Along with all the stuff that Mat posted. Mmmm hmmm. :rolleyes:

Mat, not doormat
September 9, 2013, 06:05 AM
Who said anything about "as often?" I didn't. I just said that they can. But then, six for nearly sure doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Anyhow, as for the various malfunctions I mentioned, the high primer, backed out case, stuck case, and debris on the cylinder face were all things I saw yesterday at a cowboy match. The bent rod is something I've done myself, twice. Once, several years ago after taking a class which recommended actuating the ejector with the palm, rather than finger or thumb and getting the angle wrong, and once when trying to figure out how to run a revolver left handed. None of them are things I just dreamed up to argue about on the web.

But even so, I'm not saying that revolvers jam a lot, or are unreliable. That'd be silly. With quality ammunition and proper technique, they're very reliable. But then, with proper ammunition, techniques, and good mags, so are semi autos.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2



Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

CharlieDeltaJuliet
September 9, 2013, 06:12 AM
Well, she sounds like a good woman(she like firearms at least) the gun can be replaced, women that offer that kind of love and support are few and far between. M

My wife will shoot with me to stay proficient, but the enjoyment isn't there. It is a tool to her and nothing more. However she I'd bu me a NightForce ATACR, when my gunsmith was building my Win Mag.

CraigC
September 9, 2013, 12:24 PM
I just said that they can.
A toilet 'can' fall out of the sky and land on your head but how is that relevant???

Primers usually only back out on squib loads.

A high primer should never make its way into your defensive sixgun. This is poor handloading practices.

A bent ejector is a rare thing and I can't see this ever becoming an issue in a gunfight.

stinger 327
September 9, 2013, 06:41 PM
Understand your thoughts. Every time I have shot or handled a revolver, I think "Why would anyone actually want to own such a beast?" when they could own a nice Glock (or even Ruger SR or S&W M&P)
or a Sig P-220 Equinox .45 ACP.

Mat, not doormat
September 9, 2013, 11:10 PM
A toilet 'can' fall out of the sky and land on your head but how is that relevant???

Yeah. I've never seen that happen, except in Boondock Saints, though. Half the malfunctions I listed were ones I'd seen that very morning. I think we're talking about probabilities that are several orders of magnitude apart.

Primers usually only back out on squib loads.

Or loose primer pockets. Both squibs and badly formed brass are actually things I've seen in factory ammo, not just among cheapskate cowboys trying to get 157 loads out of each case.

A high primer should never make its way into your defensive sixgun. This is poor handloading practices.

Very true. Sounds to me as if you're saying "Don't load ammo the gun doesn't like." Reasonable advice, no matter which platform you pick. A modicum of common sense will take you a long way in avoiding malfunctions.

A bent ejector is a rare thing and I can't see this ever becoming an issue in a gunfight.

Maybe it's just the fact that I've done it twice that makes it somewhat less inconceivable to me.

Are revolvers reliable? Yes. Are they perfect? No. Are semis reliable, provided you make sensible decisions about ammunition and magazine quality? Also yes. Are they perfect? No. Is a revolver more reliable than a semi with the aforementioned caveats? Probably. However, it's by such a tiny margin that the semi's advantages in trigger action, capacity, ease and speed of reloading, the help of its springs in dissipating recoil energy, and slimmer form factor at the very least balance it, and I feel outweigh it by a considerable margin.

I do like revolvers. I like the single action variety for cowboy games and field carry. I got my start as a defensive shooter with double actions and like to keep my hand in with them. Thus I still shoot them occasionally for USPSA or IDPA. But my choice for social work is still a semi.

David E
September 10, 2013, 01:45 AM
Maybe it's just the fact that I've done it twice that makes it somewhat less inconceivable to me.

A qualified Instructor should watch your technique and correct the flaw(s) that cause the bent ejector rods.

Gun Master
September 10, 2013, 06:34 PM
Sounds like a Colt to me. A lot of them didn't have the ejector rod shielding protection that the S&W's do (did).

David E
September 10, 2013, 08:25 PM
Sounds like a Colt to me. A lot of them didn't have the ejector rod shielding protection that the S&W's do (did).

Those were bent thru some type of abuse while the cylinder was open.

Mat, not doormat
September 10, 2013, 08:32 PM
The bent rod is something I've done myself, twice. Once, several years ago after taking a class which recommended actuating the ejector with the palm, rather than finger or thumb and getting the angle wrong, and once when trying to figure out how to run a revolver left handed.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

I know what caused it, imperfect technique.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

If you enjoyed reading about "semi or revolver" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!