Dehumidifying my safe. Options?


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Collector0311
August 27, 2013, 12:23 PM
Central Texas located, looking for options in dehumidifying my safe, as well as my ammo storage cases. Looking for any experience, trial and error, etc on the topic.
And instead of starting a new thread, ill ask a second question here. I'm looking for a rolling luggage type container for storing/transporting ammunition/gear to and from the range. As it goes now I just use a gym bag stuffed with gear, but as I gather more and more I feel the need to organize.
Any help appreciated fellas!
-Brandon

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316SS
August 27, 2013, 01:00 PM
I use a silica gel canister like this one (http://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-SGD57-Silica-Dehumidifier/dp/B005HH5UCE/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1377622347&sr=8-17&keywords=gun+safe+dehumidifier). I have a small safe and I live on the north coast of California where the humidity is fairly high year round. It works well and I like the fact that it requires no power except when I dry it out in the oven, which I do every few months.

V-fib
August 27, 2013, 01:15 PM
I use a boxed silica bead dessicant which I use in an old freezer with my ammo. when the color turns pink on the side I remove the cloth bag enclosed in the box and put it in my oven for about 1-2 hours to dry it out and then back into the freezer. I got it at cabelas. I'm going there this weekend ( cause I need another for my safe)and see if they have more of these. If not the one on amazon looks like it would fill the bill. This stuff is the same stuff we used in medical testing machines to keep them moisture free. Except the packets were thrown out every month (over $20 for a small packet) When i saw what they cost I told my boss we could dry them out in the oven and reuse them He didn't see the value in it :banghead:

rondog
August 27, 2013, 01:51 PM
Silica canisters and Goldenrod heaters. Goldenrods are made just for that purpose, keeping gun safes dry.

For the other thing, you'll probably have to make something. I can tell you that the larger the wheels are, the better it will work and the happier you'll be. The larger the wheels, the better it'll roll over ground/grass/dirt. You may be able to use one of those personal shopping cart things and modify it. Or an old mailman cart, or a golfbag cart, or even a garden/yard cart. Or one of those jogging strollers the yuppie mommies use, those have big wheels and would be great! Hit the Goodwill and Salvation Army thrift stores.

GBExpat
August 27, 2013, 02:26 PM
Goldenrods are made just for that purpose, keeping gun safes dry.

Everyone, please be aware that goldenrods/heaters do not remove moisture from your gunsafe.

They [1] reduce the Relative Humidity by raising the temperature of the internal air & contents and [2] by raising the temp of the contents they minimize or eliminate (hopefully) the risk of moisture in the cooler outside air condensing on the metallic surfaces of your firearms when you open the door.

"Rechargeable" desiccant units are an excellent means for the actual removal of the moisture.

mgkdrgn
August 27, 2013, 02:28 PM
I use a silica gel canister like this one (http://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-SGD57-Silica-Dehumidifier/dp/B005HH5UCE/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1377622347&sr=8-17&keywords=gun+safe+dehumidifier). I have a small safe and I live on the north coast of California where the humidity is fairly high year round. It works well and I like the fact that it requires no power except when I dry it out in the oven, which I do every few months.
Or, go to your local Harley dealer and get some desiccant from him. The crates they come in contain several 1 lb (pigs) of desiccant. They just toss 'em.

Put one or two in the safe. Pull em out every couple of months and heat them up in the oven to dry out the moisture, stick 'em back in the safe.

YZ
August 27, 2013, 03:30 PM
I use "rechargeable" silica canisters sold under the Remington and Stack-On brands (identical), about $25 apiece. When the blue granules turn pink, it's time to plug the canister in a power outlet for a few hours. It will heat up and lose the absorbed moisture. Each canister, when fresh, drops the relative humidity by 20-30 points in a small gunsafe.

JohnBT
August 27, 2013, 04:39 PM
""Rechargeable" desiccant units are an excellent means for the actual removal of the moisture."

Safe doors are not airtight. The constant flow of moist air coming in around the door has to pass by the guns to get to the dessicant.

I've been using multiple GoldenRods for decades. Plug them in and forget them.

dagger dog
August 27, 2013, 04:58 PM
The rod heaters work, they will keep the interior of a safe or cabinet just a few degrees higher than ambient, if you have the safe-cabinet in an air conditioned house, they are able to control the condensation.

If you want to go another step then go with the desiccant but they can be a pain firing up the oven to recharge them, but again if the whole home is air conditioned they will last longer between charges.

I use a rod heater in a cabinet on the second floor of a farmhouse built in 1929 (minimal insulation) but air conditioned. I have yet to have a firearm show any rust after installing the heater over 10 years ago.

The humidity here in the Ohio River valley runs in the high 80 % most of the summer with temp's ranging from lows in the morning of 70's and highs in the afternoons in the low
90's.

I do store my powder in a wooden locker with 2, 5 lb. canisters of desiccant.

YZ
August 27, 2013, 05:36 PM
For the sake of clarity, JohnBT, your concern about humid air passing through guns is a conjecture. Water is not trapped in the gun just by passing through. It is a constant two way exchange. The ambient air humidity will be lowered by the presence of silica which (unlike metal) does trap water.

ColtPythonElite
August 27, 2013, 05:39 PM
An Dri-rod and 10 buck Walmart humidity gauge works for me.

oneounceload
August 27, 2013, 05:40 PM
I live in Florida in an area more humid than Texas -and it has been this way since April this year. Goldenrod plus 3 large dessicant packs for a safe that holds 12 longguns. All guns, including handguns, are in silicone-impregnated socks

So far so good, need to dry out the boxes about every three months

herrwalther
August 28, 2013, 06:01 AM
I have 3 of these sitting in my safe. A little bit overkill but they don't need to be dried out as often.

http://www.amazon.com/Silica-Gel-Desiccant--Gram-unit/dp/B009K4VMMW/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1377683870&sr=8-7&keywords=silica+gel+900

I also have a Liberty dehumidifying rod that is identical to the Goldenrod mentioned by others. These warm the air slightly to reduce the relative humidity inside the safe. They DO NOT remove moisture, just makes it harder for the water vapor to condense onto your firearms. Also invest ($15-20) in a decent hygrometer/thermometer for inside to keep an eye on temperature and humidity. Inside of mine stays about 67 degrees and 47% humidity year round with no rust issues.

alsaqr
August 28, 2013, 07:16 AM
Been using Golden rods for decades. Some of my guns were not touched by human hands for as long as three years while i worked overseas. Have never had one speck of rust.

JohnBT
August 28, 2013, 07:22 AM
"For the sake of clarity, JohnBT, your concern about humid air passing through guns is a conjecture."

Nope, not conjecture. The constant flow of moist air coming through the crack around the safe door has to get to the dessicant container(s). The moist air can't avoid touching the guns on its way to the container and could condense out on them. Visualize the air passing over under around and through the stacks and piles of guns before being absorbed by the dessicant.

Let's see, if the safe door is 5' x 2', that's 14 feet of crack. Times 12" is 168". If the crack is, say, 1/32" that makes a total opening of 5.25 square inches.

John

jrdolall
August 28, 2013, 07:28 AM
I use the plug in Remington moisture removers. About once a week I take them out and plug them in overnight to recharge. I live in Alabama so humidity is a definite issue.

MedWheeler
August 28, 2013, 07:31 AM
For your second question, see post #3 in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=726667

YZ
August 28, 2013, 08:54 AM
Visualizing is not always accurate, especially speaking of invisible things like molecules. They will "touch" the metal on passing, but they will just as readily take off if the ambient air is dryer than metal. It is an equilibrium. The desiccant will trap the moisture constantly, so the water on the metal will evaporate until the desiccant is saturated and no longer absorbent.

GBExpat
August 28, 2013, 09:56 AM
Collector0311,

As with many subject here, this one creates lots of noise & confusion. I am not going to be drawn into this Post-Respond-Post-Respond Silliness again on this subject.

In answer to the first part of your post, please peruse this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=685976

I solved my worsening in-gunsafe humidity problems and explained my scenario, in detail, in the thread.

===================

As an update to the info that I posted in that thread ...

With the RH that I have been able to maintain in my basement during recent summers (running my 71pt DH to capacity once overnight & twice during wet periods) I could safely unseal my gunsafe doors, remove the desiccants units and depend entirely upon the "goldenrod" & fan. BUT ... my original DH died and it took awhile to replace (during a wet Spring), so I will just leave everything as it is. :)

Hangingrock
August 28, 2013, 10:29 AM
I do not use desiccant, Golden rods and or low wattage light bulbs. I have a portable dehumidifier. This is what I've used for the last 15+ years. in the area that the safe is located. That said its been a rather excellent solution.

303tom
August 28, 2013, 10:33 AM
I just keep a few of these sitting around & their cheap, about 2 bucks at Dollar General.

herrwalther
August 28, 2013, 01:46 PM
I would avoid using Damp Rid if at all possible. If Damp Rid were to leak inside the safe for any reason, anything inside your safe will be covered in it. And I believe the material in it is acidic, which doesn't get along well with papers, metal etc in the safe. Silica gel is pretty much as inert as you can get, as long as you don't eat it.

If you are going for a cheaper option, string up some old incandescent Christmas lights. They will warm the air slightly like a Goldenrod (or similar) will and light up the inside so you can see.

YZ
August 28, 2013, 02:12 PM
Collector0311,

As with many subject here, this one creates lots of noise & confusion. I am not going to be drawn into this Post-Respond-Post-Respond Silliness again on this subject.

In answer to the first part of your post, please peruse this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=685976

I solved my worsening in-gunsafe humidity problems and explained my scenario, in detail, in the thread.

===================

As an update to the info that I posted in that thread ...

With the RH that I have been able to maintain in my basement during recent summers (running my 71pt DH to capacity once overnight & twice during wet periods) I could safely unseal my gunsafe doors, remove the desiccants units and depend entirely upon the "goldenrod" & fan. BUT ... my original DH died and it took awhile to replace (during a wet Spring), so I will just leave everything as it is. :)
Come on GBexpat. That's a pretty long post. You want attention to your previous body of work? Then respect someone else's conversation, even if it sounds like noise to you.

GBExpat
August 28, 2013, 02:22 PM
Come on GBexpat. That's a pretty long post. You want attention to your previous body of work? Then respect someone else's conversation, even if it sounds like noise to you.

Nope, I am not going to beat on this particular subject/horse anymore ...

... and we all add to the noise & confusion when we add both our opinions and "facts".

tarosean
August 28, 2013, 02:24 PM
I'm a few hours closer to the coast than you and one of my safes is in the garage. I use the canisters...

YZ
August 28, 2013, 02:27 PM
GB -Yet you are still here, telling the world you are "not" interested. Okay...

Reloadron
August 28, 2013, 02:30 PM
As to removing humidity it would be nice to get some idea of how much humidity you have so you know how much you want to get rid of. Short of using a humidity indicating instrument or getting fancy you can get 100 Humidity Indicating Cards (http://www.mcmaster.com/#humidity-indicating-cards/=o9hth2) from a distributor like McMaster Carr supply for about $28. Find 4 other members who want 20 EA. and they cost you about $7 for your cards or figure $10 with S&H.

Give this link a read as to Disposable Desiccant Bags. (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-desiccants/=o9hlr5) Note how different mixtures cover different volumes. Silica gel is the most popular desiccant material. It works best when relative humidity is higher than 40%.

I use silica gel bags and dry them out in my oven about once a month and keep several of the cards in my safe as an indicator.

Just as a science experiment I have been thinking about getting one of these units (http://www.dataq.com/products/hardware/el-usb-data-loggers/el-usb-2-data-logger.html) and letting it get data in the safe for a month or so. Not that I need it but might be fun to record the safe inside data over a long period of time.

Ron

Zeke/PA
August 28, 2013, 02:40 PM
Admittedly, I don't have the moisture problems of some of you fellows but the eva-dry units have kept stuff in good shape in my safe for quite awhile.
I wouldn't be without them!

YZ
August 28, 2013, 02:48 PM
What is Eva dry Zeke?
High humidity in the summer is my only serious gun maintenance issue. I spray them with RemOil before storing.

Reloadron
August 28, 2013, 03:07 PM
What is Eva dry Zeke?
High humidity in the summer is my only serious gun maintenance issue. I spray them with RemOil before storing.
A family of mini dehumidifiers. (http://www.eva-dry.com/)

Ron

Torian
August 28, 2013, 03:31 PM
Keep in mind that those desiccant type dehumidifiers really don't bring the humidity down too much. I've been trying to get mine down to 30% in my safe, but I'm constantly at a 45% (closer to ambient humidity levels).

Getting that last 10-15% humidity removed can be a real pain.

Reloadron
August 28, 2013, 04:17 PM
Keep in mind that those desiccant type dehumidifiers really don't bring the humidity down too much. I've been trying to get mine down to 30% in my safe, but I'm constantly at a 45% (closer to ambient humidity levels).

Getting that last 10-15% humidity removed can be a real pain.
That being a very good point!

Silica gel is the most popular desiccant material. It works best when relative humidity is higher than 40%.

Using Silica Gel you will be hard pressed to remove humidity below 40% RH.

Low-humidity molecular sieve is more effective than other desiccants when relative humidity is below 40% or temperatures exceed 77° F.

When the RH is low (below around 40%) removing more water from the air becomes a little more complicated using simple types of desiccant. Most people are happy with a RH below 45%. Heed what Torian mentions if you want lower than that 40% to 45%.

Ron

Potatohead
August 28, 2013, 04:19 PM
Or one of those jogging strollers the yuppie mommies use,


hahahahhaa. yuppie moms...

YZ
August 28, 2013, 06:08 PM
Hey I am thankful to reach 60% in the summer.

Deer_Freak
August 28, 2013, 06:27 PM
Drywall that has been baked at 220 degrees for 15 minutes works well as a desiccant and dunnage. Mold is an issue here in NC when the AC runs 24/7 in the summer. I have yet to see any mold since I have been using drywall to protect my ammo.

YZ
August 28, 2013, 06:31 PM
A family of mini dehumidifiers. (http://www.eva-dry.com/)

Ron
Excellent link, thank you. It is the same one I use under a different name, but they sell 3 for $45, and I get one at Rural King for $25.

herrwalther
August 29, 2013, 12:24 AM
Forgot to mention, Remington makes a mini-dehumidifier that reactivates by plugging it into a wall outlet for a few hours to dry out, what I am assuming is silica. Nice little feature that is a bit more convenient than using an oven. The only downsides is they don't in large space very well and only last about 10 years. As opposed to the in theory indefinite life of oven use silica.

Oxidation
August 29, 2013, 12:27 AM
I have this and love it. It uses under 20w so you don't really have to worry about your power bill going up. Never had any complaints about it

http://www.amazon.com/Lockdown-222000-Dehumidifier-Rod-12-Inch/dp/B004QUDTZI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1377750388&sr=8-2&keywords=dehumidifier+gun+safe

merrill
August 29, 2013, 01:09 AM
I store cameras in a cooler with a plastic container of calcium chloride. When it liquifies I replace it. It is known as Driveway Heat; available at auto parts stores. Good enough for keeping samples dry in analytical chemistry class.

Black Butte
August 29, 2013, 01:28 AM
Safe doors are not airtight. The constant flow of moist air coming in around the door has to pass by the guns to get to the desiccant.

After recharging my desiccant, I seal the door using blue painter's tape.

Zeke/PA
August 29, 2013, 07:47 AM
What is Eva dry Zeke?
High humidity in the summer is my only serious gun maintenance issue. I spray them with RemOil before storing.
As others have said, mini dehumidifers. Google "eva dry" for a good description and pricing. I've been using a unit in my safe for several years with no problems.

JohnBT
August 29, 2013, 07:48 AM
"Visualizing is not always accurate, especially speaking of invisible things like molecules."

All of the basics of gas behavior were taught in high school chemistry. At least it was in my high school in the '60s.


"Mold is an issue here in NC when the AC runs 24/7 in the summer."

I wish I had central air - or even duct work. I'm in Richmond and my 100-year-old house doesn't even have central air. The safe in my basement is next to the water heater and gas boiler, but the basement is unfinished and doesn't have a window unit or even any windows that open. Moisture seeps through the 14-inch-thick brick walls and sometimes seeps fast enough to cause puddles.

I tried dessicant 15 or so years ago, and a big box from the gun store and a quart tub from the hobby shop together wouldn't last a week before saturating. GoldenRods to the rescue.

The tv weatherperson just said we're 10 inches over our average rainfall so far this year. Great, all the usual high humidity plus some extra rain.

Alright, the coffee is kicking in. It's 7:30 - 73*F and 89 RH. Looks like a good dry day to tear the 8' x 20' front porch roof off and start on the new hand crimped standing seam copper. Well, we do have to cut and solder new copper built-in gutters on three sides before doing the actual roof, but the old tin is shot and I'm glad to see it go. The gutters and the copper drip edges are first, and then the actual roof. I know from redoing the second floor built-in gutter last month that a 3' x 10' sheet of 16-ounce copper costs $170 plus tax. Ouch.

jrdolall
August 29, 2013, 08:39 AM
I tried dessicant 15 or so years ago, and a big box from the gun store and a quart tub from the hobby shop together wouldn't last a week before saturating. GoldenRods to the rescue.
I have two of the Remington dehumidifiers in each of my safes and I generally have to recharge them once or twice per week during the summer. I recharged the ones in the big safe on Monday and today they still look good but we haven't had any rain.
Last I heard we were 14" above average rainfall. Last night I started the process of pulling things out of the kitchen cabinets because there is mildew in the lower cabinets. From May through July it seems like we got rain, and I mean downpours, every day and things never dried out. All of the old wooden doors and frames have been swollen requiring lots of effort just to open and close the doors. I need to look into something electric for dehumidifying but don't currently have a wire in any of my safes.

cp11
August 29, 2013, 11:05 AM
I want to ask the same question. What do you do with the cord for an electric heater? I have a Winchester 24 gun safe also?

ColtPythonElite
August 29, 2013, 11:16 AM
Many safes have a hole in the back for a cord.

Reloadron
August 29, 2013, 11:46 AM
I want to ask the same question. What do you do with the cord for an electric heater? I have a Winchester 24 gun safe also?
As ColtPythonElite mentions, many safes have a pre drilled hole to allow for electric power inside the safe. Less that an option is to drill a hole. Not a big deal starting with a small pilot hole, there should be threads mentioning it.

Ron

herrwalther
August 29, 2013, 01:16 PM
Many of the rod sized dehumidifiers have removable plugs. So if you do have to drill a hole in your safe to run the power cord through, it won't be the size of the plug itself. May not seem like much but it is when slowly drilling through a gun safe that is designed to be semi-drill resistant.

Akita1
August 29, 2013, 04:01 PM
This one works well for me & is renewable (dries out via temporary plug in to a/c outlet):

http://www.deansafe.com/edv-300.html

rhinoh
August 30, 2013, 05:41 AM
A family of mini dehumidifiers. (http://www.eva-dry.com/)

Ron
Be skeptical of some of their claims- for instance their Peltier dehumidifiers are stated to actually cool your home! Impossible. I contacted them to explain why that isn't true, yet they still advertise it. I may try a couple of their Peltier units in the safes just for fun.

I use 2 of their 333 silica gel units in each safe. Need recharging each week here in the south even in an air conditioned home. I need to work on improving door seals on my safes. I also use VCI capsules in the safes.

Reloadron
August 30, 2013, 06:37 AM
Be skeptical of some of their claims- for instance their Peltier dehumidifiers are stated to actually cool your home! Impossible. I contacted them to explain why that isn't true, yet they still advertise it. I may try a couple of their Peltier units in the safes just for fun.

I use 2 of their 333 silica gel units in each safe. Need recharging each week here in the south even in an air conditioned home. I need to work on improving door seals on my safes. I also use VCI capsules in the safes.
I agree. The link I provided was to what someone else mentioned in the thread. There is no shortage of snake oil out there so anyone considering any sort of gizmo should do their homework before buying anything.

Ron

Collector0311
August 30, 2013, 10:43 AM
Myriad fantastic responses fellas, can't thank y'all enough!
And to the old "sticks in butts" if I wanted to peruse threads for my answer, I'd have googled it. I belong to THR so I can converse and bounce ideas and opinions off of others. Not stale threads.
I think I'll start off with the small bags of packing desiccant as mentioned to be from Harley dealers, etc. I'm rocking a smaller safe so I'm not sure a heating element is for me just yet.

I really like that idea of the stroller turned three gun transport.
I'll be making my way to the local garage sales and thrift stores haha

GBExpat
August 30, 2013, 11:04 AM
And to the old "sticks in butts" if I wanted to peruse threads for my answer, I'd have googled it. I belong to THR so I can converse and bounce ideas and opinions off of others. Not stale threads.

WOW. So, someone tries to provide information that may help you to a solution with your stated question/issue and you respond with Name-Calling ?

How very immature and un-THR of you.

Once again, my father was right when he told me that No Good Deed Goes Completely Unpunished.

[PLONK]

Reloadron
August 30, 2013, 12:41 PM
Just an off topic moment here. This thread has had some very good information posted. The use of a Golden Rod is a good way to go but along those lines the post by GBExpat was very much on target. GBExpat placed some considerable time and effort into removing humidity for his location on the planet and shared what he learned. A golden rod is no more than a small electrically powered heating element, it does not absorb humidity and as GBExpat pointed out merely functioning as a heating element raises the box (gun safe) internal temperature.

Now I figure it this way. The need to remove humidity from ambient air will vary greatly depending on where one happens to be located. The guys sitting in Phoenix Arizona and Tamps Bay Florida will not have the same needs or solutions. The thread has a wealth of information for Collector0311 to review and make a well informed decision as to what will best work for him.

This thread also benefited me in that I decided to pop for a small temperature, humidity and dew point recording device. Since I have never had problems in my safe I never gave much thought to what is going on inside the thing. Now I am curious. :)

Just My Take
Ron

Fryerpower
August 30, 2013, 12:52 PM
...This stuff is the same stuff we used in medical testing machines to keep them moisture free. Except the packets were thrown out every month (over $20 for a small packet) When i saw what they cost I told my boss we could dry them out in the oven and reuse them He didn't see the value in it :banghead:

Collect the stuff they are throwing out and reuse it at home. I have a 50 pound bag of the stuff we used in instrument air dryers on a gas turbine. Once a year we went through 10 bags of the stuff.

Jim

Fryerpower
August 30, 2013, 12:59 PM
Be skeptical of some of their claims- for instance their Peltier dehumidifiers are stated to actually cool your home! Impossible. I contacted them to explain why that isn't true, yet they still advertise it. I may try a couple of their Peltier units in the safes just for fun.

I use 2 of their 333 silica gel units in each safe. Need recharging each week here in the south even in an air conditioned home. I need to work on improving door seals on my safes. I also use VCI capsules in the safes.

I agree that there is no way in heck they cool your house. One side of the junction is cold to collect moisture. The other side is hot as a by product of how they work. The overall net effect is that it is a little electric heater putting out how ever much energy the device is consuming. (120V * how every many amps = Watts aka heat)

That said, I have one of these in my office and can vouch for the fact that they do remove moisture. It is an all or nothing deal. No set point. Turn them on and they run until the tank is full.

Jim

Collector0311
August 30, 2013, 02:15 PM
GBExpat, how long has it been since you lost your sense of humor?
I appreciate the info provided, but I'd rather have an up to date, live conversation. No offense meant in my words, just having some fun.
Anyway, what type of internal temperatures are we talking about with heating elements? Would it effect the storage of other items such as ammo, aerosol cans, etc?
And for the gentleman from Florida, the silicon impregnated socks, were those purchased or homemade? I use a reel cloth to wipe down the weapons before storage, I'm not sure my level of humidity and lack of salt call for constant coverage but if its simple enough I may as well.

YZ
August 30, 2013, 05:01 PM
I used reel cloth and silicone cloth, and most recently RemOil spray (Teflon), plus hope and prayer. At this time I have 2 rechargeables hanging in a 5 gun safe, trying to get the humidity below 80 per cent.

YZ
August 30, 2013, 05:10 PM
Once again, my father was right when he told me that No Good Deed Goes Completely Unpunished. ]That's a very common saying, GBExpat.
You do draw attention by your solemn attitude. Lighten up, it's all for a good time.

Reloadron
August 30, 2013, 05:55 PM
I used reel cloth and silicone cloth, and most recently RemOil spray (Teflon), plus hope and prayer. At this time I have 2 rechargeables hanging in a 5 gun safe, trying to get the humidity below 80 per cent.
Below 80%? Are you living in a swamp or something? Midwest? Midwest what? Midwest tropical rain jungle? An 80% relative humidity has to be hard to deal with.

Ron

YZ
August 30, 2013, 06:24 PM
Not really a swamp. Say southwest from you. Tropical for sure. Long way from any big lakes or rivers. Desiccant saturates in a few days. One shotgun rusted brand new in 6 months.

Reloadron
August 30, 2013, 06:43 PM
Not really a swamp. Say southwest from you. Tropical for sure. Long way from any big lakes or rivers. Desiccant saturates in a few days. One shotgun rusted brand new in 6 months.
Years ago before we went to whole house air conditioning I had a similar problem. Winters weren't bad but parts of the summers were a nightmare. Beyond the guns I also had quite a bit of sensitive electronics. I invested in a large window air conditioner. Then moved everything electronic and gun related into the room including the gun safe. Window AC units have gotten pretty inexpensive.

Once I had some decent environmental control in the room the rest fell into place. That AC unit sucked enough water out of the air to keep an outside flower bed well watered all summer long.

There are other options like large volume dehumidifiers for the room the safe is in but for me I also wanted to reduce the temperature so an AC unit was my way to go. Last summer when it was hot I dug that old window unit out of the basement and gave it to the neighbors. That thing is still running.

Ron

YZ
August 30, 2013, 07:03 PM
Mine is bolted to the drywall in a closet. Ventilation is poor. Thinking of it now, I am going to place a fan in there. We'll see. Btw winters here, 40% humidity or less in the safe.

Nimble1
August 31, 2013, 04:51 PM
I live in SW Fla about 25' from a saltwater canal. All my guns are oiled with CLP and stored in a safe that is inside my air conditioned home. I do not have any sort of heater or moisture removal system in the safe and have never had any rust or mildew on my guns.
I guess if you feel better, do it.

YZ
August 31, 2013, 09:02 PM
Mine are all oiled. With the fan in the closet, got it down to 60%. Ordered more desiccant. It's about time. This thread was a good reminder.

Reloadron
September 1, 2013, 08:48 AM
Mine are all oiled. With the fan in the closet, got it down to 60%. Ordered more desiccant. It's about time. This thread was a good reminder.
Yeah, time for a bake out here. Nice quiet Sunday morning and my wife won't be using the oven till afternoon so I figure it is a good time to do some baking of my own. :)

http://www.bearblain.com/images/Dessiccant%20Humi%20Sorb.png

I'll give them the usual 3.5 hours or so at 250 F. Also, prior to going in the oven to bake I do rearrange them.

My new little Temperature / Humidity / Dew Point recorder (http://www.dataq.com/products/hardware/el-usb-data-loggers/el-usb-2-plus-data-logger.html) should be here Tuesday. Should prove interesting to see what the actual numbers in the safe really are.

Ron

pa350z
September 2, 2013, 08:01 AM
Well... safe is in my basement. I have a forced hot air natural gas furnace along with central air conditioning. The basement can get down to 30 percent humidity in the winter. Safe is fine. In the summer... it can get moist in the basement with the central air running. I put a dehumidifier down there, near the safe, and for years have been able to keep the air at about 50 percent during the summer and in the safe, with the Remmington rechargeables (2 of them), at 40 percent. Each fire arm is in a Cabelas silicone sock with a light covering of Rem oil.

YZ
September 2, 2013, 08:10 AM
I got rid of the socks because of (in theory) water trapping. If you grease them well then perhaps okay. Mine are just lightly oiled because I try to take them out every chance I get. Well, it's up to 80% outside, plus 2 thunderstorms in 3 days, but we are hanging on to 60.

longspurr
September 3, 2013, 10:11 PM
If you can seal up the safe (or other container) with a hole on each end, or at least seperated by a couple feet, then you can put an INERT atmosphere in the safe. As in very low relative humidity

Get a tank of Nitrogen and use that to purge / pressurize the safe - then seal it. This will keep for years if properly sealed.

If you open the safe you must repeat this. obviously this only works for containers that are not opened very often.

Reloadron
September 4, 2013, 09:23 AM
Since I never had a clue what the RH (Relative Humidity) or temperature was inside the safe I did invest in one of these little gizmos (http://www.dataq.com/support/documentation/pdf/datasheets/el-usb-2-plus-data-logger.pdf) I mentioned earlier.

Prior to now I just figured if things weren't rusting the RH was low enough and if wood stocks weren't cracking the RH was high enough. Now I can see and record some real world numbers. While at $112 less a 10% discount plus $6 S&H it wasn't a bad deal I figured. They do offer a slightly less accurate version for about $82 before a 10% discount.

The little gizmo showed up yesterday so I loaded the software and programmed it before placing it in the safe for a test run. This gizmo could not be easier to use and works quite well taking measurements and recording the data. Below is some of what I recorded:

Setup is about as simple as can be:
http://bearblain.com/images/Safe%20RH%201.png

I set it up to record data every 10 seconds. This would never be done in a real application but I wanted a lot of numbers in a short time. Let's face it the temperature and RH in a safe don't change much or very fast. Readings every 10 min would have been just fine. I also did not take data from outside the safe for comparison. All I did was collect data for about a few hours inside the safe.

I saved the file to a location on my PC
http://bearblain.com/images/Safe%20RH%202.png

Using the included software we get a chart showing Temperature, RH and Dew Point. The dew point is merely a calculated result.
http://bearblain.com/images/Safe%20RH%203.png

Not shown is you can use a scroll line and scroll the chart. You can also zoom in and out.

A nice feature is the ability to export the file to Excel for those who have Excel. All of the data points will show as logged and an Excel chart created.
http://bearblain.com/images/Safe%20RH%204.png

Excel Chart:
http://bearblain.com/images/Safe%20RH%205.png

The spikes at the end of the charts are where I removed the datalogger and moved it to the PC. I did not really experiment with opening and closing the safe door. The datalogger was placed centrally in the safe.

So now I know what is going on in the safe. As we move into the fall and winter seasons the RH around here will drop. The past few days were pretty humid but today it is cooler and less humid.

I plan to use this little gizmo for a few other applications. I can see where this may be of some use to a gun club where a few members kick in a few bucks and make it available on a loan basis.

Ron

YZ
September 4, 2013, 03:36 PM
Outstanding. It is on my shopping list.

Reloadron
September 4, 2013, 04:41 PM
While not cheap it is proving entertaining. :)

Ron

jmr40
September 4, 2013, 06:57 PM
I use a pretty low tech approach. I just open the doors to let air circulate inside the safe on a regular basis. Got back from the range about 10AM this morning and the doors to the safes are still open. I'll close them when I go to bed tonight. I'll leave the doors open for several hours at least once a week. Never had any issues and it can be pretty humid here in Georgia.

YZ
September 6, 2013, 05:56 PM
Can report back, I stuffed my safe with desiccants, and the humidity inside dropped to 40%. I had one rechargeable that, according to the large print, was supposed to take care of this cubic footage. It was a lie. Five times more absorber did the job. The baseline humidity was such that the top layer of fresh silica (in a cup) turned into cement in two days. I had to break it up.

Also got a little digital hygrometer that remembers the extreme readings over a period of time since the last check. Press the "max/min" button once for high, then again for low. Not as advanced as Ron's gizmo but should work for me.

Reloadron
September 6, 2013, 06:23 PM
Can report back, I stuffed my safe with desiccants, and the humidity inside dropped to 40%. I had one rechargeable that, according to the large print, was supposed to take care of this cubic footage. It was a lie. Five times more absorber did the job. The baseline humidity was such that the top layer of fresh silica (in a cup) turned into cement in two days. I had to break it up.

Also got a little digital hygrometer that remembers the extreme readings over a period of time since the last check. Press the "max/min" button once for high, then again for low. Not as advanced as Ron's gizmo but should work for me.
Cool, the min / max feature is nice in hygrometers.

The gizmo I got was more a matter of curiosity and something to play around with. Certainly not a must have by any stretch.

Overall it is nice to know what you have for humidity so you can get an idea of how to get rid of it. Also, as mentioned, if nothing is going wrong and rust isn't growing there is little to nothing to worry or be concerned about.

Ron

oneounceload
September 7, 2013, 06:21 PM
Safe doors are not airtight. The constant flow of moist air coming in around the door has to pass by the guns to get to the desiccant.

Depends on your safe; mine with its fire seal IS airtight; however, going in and out every day allows enough moisture in that way

JohnBT
September 7, 2013, 06:52 PM
Okay, a question. Was the seal advertised as expanding when heated? Most of them are. Why would they need to expand if they're already airtight?

Do the refrigerator door seal test - close the safe door on a clean dollar bill and see if you can pull it out easily. Every gun safe I've ever checked was a loose fit all the way around the door.

www.libertysafe.com/the-worlds-best-fire-seal-lm-5-p-81.html

"•Palusol™ expands to 7 times its size when temperatures reach 212 degrees, sealing off both heat and smoke."

John

JohnBT
September 7, 2013, 07:07 PM
The loose doors are an advantage when using a GoldenRod. It requires ventilation.

www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/faqs.htm

"Expansion of the heated air forces the moist air outside through the vents or loose fitting doors leaving the dry air inside. In order to work correctly, it is important to ensure that there is adequate ventilation."

Reloadron
September 7, 2013, 07:50 PM
Well I can assume my RSC is somewhat air tight. Doing the dollar bill test I get restriction trying to remove the bill. More to the point if I measure the RH in the gun room and it is around 55% to 60% then place the data logger in the safe it will drop to around 45% eventually becoming stable with the door closed. Then open the door for awhile (10 min or so). The logged RH will shoot up. Close the door and the RH in the safe starts to drop as the desiccant starts doing its thing. Pretty much what I would expect.

Ron

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