AR-15 to 22bolt-action...please help!


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kidchill
August 28, 2013, 07:17 PM
A little background info, I used to shoot a bit when I was younger, but nothing crazy. I wouldn't consider myself a "gun guy." I have, however, recently purchased a couple of pistols and have been shooting at the range anywhere from 1-3 days a week. I would like to do some small game hunting this season and would prefer a 22 cal rifle for this. My biggest concern, is that PA doesn't allow semi-auto rifles for hunting. Now, I think this sucks, but it is, what it is. The problem I have with this rule is finding a 22 non-semi-auto rifle that I can heavily modify. I do a lot of backpacking (I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail last year), so I envisioned a 22 rifle with a folding stock and a high-mount scope that would still allow for the use of barrel sights (for game that's close as well as site practice). The idea is, once it cools off, I'll be backpacking and knocking out 30-50mile hikes in a weekend, sleeping in the woods Sat night. So, a light and portable 22 would be perfect. I also want an AR-15 or M4 setup (yah know, for the zombie apocalypse.. ;). I honestly haven't look into the M4's at all, but I have been researching the AR-15's quite a bit, and I love that they're so customizable.

So, here's the deal, I need a 22 that I can modify (gonna have to be bolt-action) and a separate AR-15...OR, I get an AR-15 with a 22lr upper. I like the idea of the AR-15 with the 22lr upper, 'cause I can technically get one gun and be able to hunt with it, as well as practice. So, can anyone steer me in the right direction for the AR-15 and the 22lr upper that will NOT be semi-auto. If I could just find a bolt action upper, that would be perfect. I've read that the gas tube can be disabled, but I really haven't found info of how to do this. The other option is I just get an AR-15 and try to find a 22lr platform that has the accessories I want. I like the 10/22 ruger platform (also, it has the accessories I want), but I can't seem to find a bolt-action upper for it. Any thoughts? Thanks for any info.

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MAKster
August 28, 2013, 07:37 PM
There are straight pull ARs made for England where semis are banned. But since you can buy a Savage 22lr bolt action for $140 it makes little financial sense to try to convert a semi auto AR.

dprice3844444
August 28, 2013, 07:43 PM
look at a take down 22 pump or a take down single shot like the chipmunk

Frosty Dave
August 28, 2013, 08:08 PM
I don't think there are any .22 AR-15 uppers or conversion kits that use direct impingement and the gas tube, so disabling the gas tube isn't going to get you any closer to your goal. Good luck though!

tuj
August 29, 2013, 03:10 AM
what's your goal with these guns? For hunting small game, I could recommend any number of fine 22 bolt action rifles, such as CZ or Savage. Or if you really need lightweight and want to stick to the Armalite crowd and be a dedicated Eugene Stoner fan, check out the AR-7 survival rifle.

Edit: I guess you can't hunt with an AR-7 in PA... Maybe if you welded the mag so the follower would only accommodate 1 round? Does that get around the law?

Otherwise, get a nice CZ. I've had Savages too, but CZ is more consistent in their rifles.

Another answer is to put a Geissele trigger in your AR; they are great triggers but they do not work with the 22 uppers; they make them single shot effectively.

ford8nr
August 29, 2013, 03:29 AM
AR-7 is a semi auto correct...doesn't meet his requirements. For camping how 'bout a handgun and a bolt rifle for hunting. I don't think a folding stock, high scope mount rifle will suit you well for hunting. My .22 silloutte rifle shoots small targets from 25 to 200yds with a variable scope.

jakk280rem
August 29, 2013, 04:43 AM
you should be able to make a paratrooper style stock at home for cheap using any wooden stock 22.

another pie in the sky idea is modify a 10/22 stock to work with a 96/22.

also an idea, the henry h001 has a stock that comes off with one screw. the reciever is grooved for a scope mount too.

kidchill
August 29, 2013, 08:26 PM
Some interesting developments...well, not really, but some new ideas anyways. No matter what, I'm going to get an AR, so, that being said, google searching has possibly presented some options. There's an LGS that's having a sale this weekend and they're knocking off $100 on their Ruger 556's. From the reading I've done, I've found this:

"The AR-15 and M-16 rifle system uses a gas tube to allow it's semi-auto or full-auto operation. The easiest way to make a non-semiauto AR-15 pistol is to simply remove the gas tube. After removing the gas tube I like to tap the opening inside the gas block where the gas tube was removed and thread in an allen headed set screw. This in itself creates a charging handle operated bolt action. This can be further improved through milling the upper receiver and adding a bolt handle that is mounted to the AR-15 bolt carrier. In this design, you have about the fastest bolt action in the world as you pull the bolt back to eject the spent cartridge and let it fly forward to load the next cartridge. If the bolt handle is added to the left side (for right handed shooters) this will also assist the shooter for the shooting hand can remain on the pistol grip for firing."

I've also found some pics/images of this setup. Considering the Ruger is on sale, and also apparently has a way to close off the gas tube (I need to find a manual and verify this), this would suffice with a 22lr upper receiver. After purchasing an AR, I would get a 22lr conversion kit anyways, so I can shoot the rifle for pennies instead of dollars. The down side is that the 556 AR weighs in at 7.5lbs...oops! So much for being ultralight! I think this may be just end up being a rifle that's on the ready for when the SHTF, and can also be used for hunting.

As for a lighter, backpacking carry option...I've been looking at the Savage and Marlin lines. I just need to make sure that I can find fold-able stocks for it. Thanks for any info, and if anyone comes up with any other ideas, please let me know. Also, if anyone has experience with, or has the Ruger 556, I'd love it if you could chime in about the gas tube switch. The only problem I foresee with this setup is getting an overly excited ranger (you know they're out there) that can't grasp the concept that this AR looking device is NOT semi-auto...

kidchill
August 29, 2013, 08:54 PM
Just to add to the post, if anyone cares. Here's what I'm shooting for (excuse the pun):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPmVnEMSWGY

And here's an upper with bolt assembly. http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17733&cat=256&page=2

I checked the American Spirit website and couldn't find the assembly with the bolt handle, not to mention almost all of the assemblies were out of stock. Also, the White Oak upper is obviously on back-order...

Arizona_Mike
August 30, 2013, 04:25 AM
There are a lot of great things about ARs but lock time is not one of them. Using an AR lower on a bolt action upper seems like the worst of both worlds unless the intent is to practice for the ARs.

Mike

tuj
August 30, 2013, 04:51 AM
A standard AR has a lock time of about 16ms. Using a Geissele hi-speed national match, that goes down to about 8ms. Not sure what it is on an inline striker like a bolt-action, but probably less. That said, the Geissele trigger is competitive in NRA competition.

Caliper_RWVA
August 30, 2013, 07:25 PM
I've also found some pics/images of this setup. Considering the Ruger is on sale, and also apparently has a way to close off the gas tube (I need to find a manual and verify this), this would suffice with a 22lr upper receiver. After purchasing an AR, I would get a 22lr conversion kit anyways, so I can shoot the rifle for pennies instead of dollars. The down side is that the 556 AR weighs in at 7.5lbs...oops! So much for being ultralight! I think this may be just end up being a rifle that's on the ready for when the SHTF, and can also be used for hunting.


That will give you a PA legal 223 for hunting, but NOT a PA legal 22LR for hunting.

The 22LR conversions for an AR work off straight blowback, entirely different from how the 223 version operates. Whether the gas tube is open or closed off does not matter for a 22 conversion.

Ar180shooter
August 31, 2013, 10:18 AM
That will give you a PA legal 223 for hunting, but NOT a PA legal 22LR for hunting.

The 22LR conversions for an AR work off straight blowback, entirely different from how the 223 version operates. Whether the gas tube is open or closed off does not matter for a 22 conversion.
This is exactly what I was thinking.

Dedicated .22lr uppers from manufacturers like CMMG don't even have a gas system. They also have a 1:16 twist to properly stabilize the .22lr bullets.

As for a .22 bolt action, I'd recommend a Savage Mark II with low powered variable scope, something like a 1-4x. This will give you something where you don't need to use iron sights for closer shots as you have the 1x, but can crank the magnification up for longer shots at 100 yards or so. If you really wanted to mod it, you could probably find a way to make the factory stock in to a folding stock.

kidchill
August 31, 2013, 06:40 PM
Thanks for the heads-up on the blow-back system. I just found a friend of a friend that's in the process of opening a shop and does gun-smithing. I'm gonna wait and talk to him tomorrow and see if there is a way to safely modify the 22 upper to blow off the chambering gas (I have NO idea if this is even possible). If not, it begs the question if I should just get a 22lr conversion kit vs a full 22lr upper (since it will be a range only weapon). I guess the difference would mainly be accuracy on the range (since the barrel twist/design is for 556/223 ammo). The conversion would be cheaper then the full upper, so it's whether or not I want to be accurate past 25yds (from what I've read).

22-rimfire
August 31, 2013, 10:36 PM
In PA, I would save yourself some trouble and just get a nice bolt action such as a CZ. A Marlin 39A (lever action) is a great small game hunting rifle also.

ugaarguy
August 31, 2013, 10:42 PM
The conversion would be cheaper then the full upper, so it's whether or not I want to be accurate past 25yds (from what I've read).
The .22 LR bolt replacement conversions will also load up the gas port with fouling. The twist rate on the dedicated .22 LR barrels certainly helps, but the proper .221" bore (vs. .224" bore on a .223 / 5.56 mm bbl) is a much more important factor.

goon
August 31, 2013, 10:53 PM
I agree with .22rimfire. I like the AR as much as the next guy, but it's probably less trouble to just get a compact bolt action of some sort.
There are old single shot .22 LR bolt actions out there that allow the barreled action to come off with one screw and that can be had for $75 or so. That's so much easier than goofing around trying to turn an AR into something it was never intended to be.

22-rimfire
September 1, 2013, 01:01 AM
The youth version of the CZ 452 is pretty handy. I have shouldered them and they work for adults and easy to carry. The Henry Mare's Leg in 22LR is also pretty handy. Hard to shoot accurately however. Got one.

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