Dont give cheaperthandirt.com your creditcard number


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000Buck
March 23, 2004, 09:56 AM
I bought some 308 ammo from cheaperthandirt.com last month on the internet, they enrolled me in something called WLI*RESERVATIONREWARDS that is a automatic charge for $7 per month on the credit card I used. They are a bunch of no good scammers and will never get anymore business from me.

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ksnecktieman
March 23, 2004, 10:06 AM
I trust you called your cc company and refused the charge as unauthorized? Maybe with a complaint of where you think it came from?

FPrice
March 23, 2004, 10:09 AM
Interesting.

Do you by any chance have any paperwork from your order? Is there any chance that they asked you if you wanted to join this service and you answered yes without realizing what the question was? If so, then they may have a defense, but you should still be able to cancel it.

On the other hand, if they did this without your knowledge or agreement then you may have a case against them.

In any case it is a rotten thing to do to a customer and you should let them know your displeasure AND that you are letting your internet friends know about this.

Devonai
March 23, 2004, 10:14 AM
Odd.

I bought a ton of ammo from their website last month and I didn't get signed up for anything.

Leatherneck
March 23, 2004, 10:14 AM
I've ordered a lot from them over the years; never had such a problem. Don't remember any offer for extras like "WLI*RESERVATIONREWARDS" either--only their preferred member program, which I signed up for because it saves money in the long run. Can you tell us why they thought you agreed? :scrutiny:

TC
TFL Survivor

000Buck
March 23, 2004, 10:14 AM
I called the place that charged me for it, and they told me it was CTD. I am pretty careful about getting ripped off this way when buying things on the internet, I have a feeling they had a checkbox regarding signing up for this, and it was CHECKED by default....and I must have missed it.

Regardless of how it happened, its a scam. I was buying cartridges, not a travel agency rewards membership or whatever it was. The company agreed to take the fee off my card.

It really fries my arse, I have a hard enough time dealing with all of lifes other problems, I dont need CTD or other gun vendors trying to rip me off.

Thanks for the replies.

sturmruger
March 23, 2004, 10:56 AM
If I am buying ammo online I either buy from Nathez Shooting Supplies or from my all time favorite The Sportsmans Guide. Allot of time I just drive over and pick my stuff up fro TSG since they are just across the river from me.

Sorry you got scammed.

murrie
March 23, 2004, 12:40 PM
placed several orders with CTD, no strange changes here :)

bummer you got charged, but Ive had nothing but quality service from CTD...

patentnonsense
March 23, 2004, 12:45 PM
After ordering online from CTD I got forwarded to a screen offering a credit - that may have been the trap.

Nando Aqui
March 23, 2004, 01:04 PM
I would say I order once to maybe three times per month from the various web-vendors. I always check with several, always including CTD, before placing the order, and I have NEVER found CDT to be the cheapest. They may be cheaper than dirt, but that's some expensive dirt.

In my experience, except for a couple of instances, if Natchez has it, they'll will be the cheapest. Unfortunately they also have the worse-to-surf website, and their search function is useless.

The S&H that many vendors charge can really 'bite'. Many have a set amount based on the cost of goods ordered, others add a surcharge for ammo, others add a charge if signature is required, and so on. If I can't readily find out what the real bottom line will be, I won't place the order.

Then there are the in-your-State vendors, such as MidwayUSA for me, who have to charge sales tax...

All said, it's still convenient to shop through the web, and we sure have access to a heck of a lot more than we would otherwise.

Taurus 617 CCW
March 23, 2004, 01:17 PM
Just placed an order yestersay for a holster. Let's see if they do the same thing to my card...:scrutiny:

Diggler
March 23, 2004, 01:24 PM
I believe this is what's going on... similar experience with online ordering.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68179

WhoKnowsWho
March 23, 2004, 01:56 PM
That sucks, thankfully I never click on free stuff ads or anything like that, especially when I am dealing with SSL pages.

000Buck
March 23, 2004, 03:29 PM
That trap might not be illegal, but it is misleading and dishonest, like someone else said. I dont remember clicking on that, but I do remember a save $10 coupon once when shopping there, I always ignore those. Maybe I was lost my mind and clicked it...It is completely misleading, I never received a $10 off coupon if I clicked it, and I definitiely got enrolled in some b.s. service.

Thanks for the replies. I just thought I would let my fellows THRers know about this. To everyone who has never been taken by CTD or anyone else because they dont click on anything misleading, congratulations.

MikeK
March 23, 2004, 03:52 PM
Sounds like a scam. I quit doing business with CTD after I signed up for their E-mail list, which I have done with several vendors. CTD E-mail ads opened their Web site as soon as the message arrived - no choice, no chance to click to open. I still had dial-up then. I sent them an E-mail explaining my displeasure in words I can't use here. Never heard back from them, havn't received another E-mail and havn't purchased anything from them since.

I second earlier posts about Natchez and CTD prices.

jamz
March 23, 2004, 04:06 PM
Wow, I checked cheaperthandirt's prices, and I can actually get ammo cheaper at my local gun shop.

-James

Bainx
March 23, 2004, 04:48 PM
What a bummer!
Best Buy did something similar to us after we purchased an item a few months ago. An "extra" charge of$7 per month kept showing up on our bill.
I finally asked for them to produce something in writing showing where I signed up and agreed to the extra. They then backed-down.

Beware

Ala Dan
March 23, 2004, 05:03 PM
Greeting's All-

I too, have placed a few internet oders with Cheaper
Than Dirt using a credit card; and luckily have not had
any problems! ;) I try to be extremely careful as to
whom I give my credit card information.

Sorry for you getting snookered.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Lone Star
March 23, 2004, 05:52 PM
Anyone who feels that Cheaper Than Dirt has cheated them can contact the Tarrant County District Attorney's office and see if there is a criminal violation. Or, perhaps the Ft. Worth Better Business Bureau might like to know.

I'm glad this was posted. I'd thought of driving over from Dallas, but now doubt that this is an outfit I'd want to do business with, even over-the-counter. Thanks!

By the way, I'm reading the latest in Victoria Houston's series of murder mysteries, in which the action has a background of fishing in Wisconsin. The police chief and her friends fish and hunt. How refreshing!

The book describes how waitresses, bartenders, department store clerks, etc. can run your credit card through a small scanner and get your card data, then fake a card. It's well worth reading the book to get this info, and also to see what some funeral homes pull to sell human body parts, some of which actually cause infections when transplanted into living patients.

It's called, "Red Hot Mama", after a fishing jig invented by one of the regular characters, but that could apply to one of the villains, too. Other titles in the series include, "Dead Frenzy", and "Dead Water". All are paperbacks, in Berkeley's Prime Crime series.

All contain data of interest to consumers, but, "Red Hot Mama" is just plain scary in that regard.

Personally, I don't use a a credit card on the Internet. Heard too many horror stories.

Lone Star

jro45
March 23, 2004, 05:53 PM
I have ordered ammo,slings and a few other things and never had any problem with Cheaper than dirt. This is the first I heard of a problem. I will watch out tho. Thanks

patentnonsense
March 23, 2004, 06:41 PM
They're a very nice store, and well worth the drive from Dallas. (Not open on Sunday though.) Castle Arms, on I30 on the west side of town, is also worth a stop.

000Buck
March 23, 2004, 07:04 PM
Do you mean Elk Castle off I-30 right past Cherry lane? They are a big store, but full price on everything.

CTD is an interesting store, but they are not CTD. The firearms are full price, vs. the guns shows which are 20% cheaper. And the store is PACKED on the weekends, and during lunch. Yuppie Central is what they should call that store.

IMO, neither of those are worth the drive from Dallas, but Military Antiques is worth the drive, they are right off 820E and Lancaster....www.oldgunsupply.com

hansolo
March 23, 2004, 07:14 PM
I always order stuff I can't get in my area(which is about EVERYTHING)from Natchez and Midway: they are "here for the long run" businesses and they still ship C.O.D in this plastic era: all you have to do is pay a $6.00
fee and they tell you on the phone exactly what amount you need to have in a money order/cashier check when UPS comes a-knockin'........
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I just don't like to buy stuff with plastic on the Net.

StuporDave
March 23, 2004, 10:02 PM
never do anything "free" on the internet without research. In cyberspace, sometimes free is good, but most of the time it pretty much sucks.

Sactown
March 24, 2004, 12:36 AM
Cheaper than dirt used to be a good deal way way back years ago when they had free shipping and stuff was pretty cheap. Now they jack you on shipping and handling.

XavierBreath
March 24, 2004, 12:50 AM
I read their explanation on the 1911 forum, and find it to be lacking. They will get no further business from me.

CTD
March 24, 2004, 09:45 AM
Hello everyone!

I am the marketing director for Cheaper Than Dirt and I would like to clarify few things about 000Buck's post. This is largely repeated from a post on the 1911 board - and if you've already read that, bear with me.

Cheaper Than Dirt does not "automatically" transfer anyone's credit card #, email address or other personal information to anyone, period. Privacy is a very big issue and a major concern for us. Being the marketing guy for Cheaper Than Dirt, I'm the one responsible for privacy, and I'm also the one responsible for the link that 000Buck clicked on after he placed his order. When a customer has completed an order with us, they go to the order confirmation page. At the bottom of that page, there is a link to "claim a special reward." This link takes you to Reservation Rewards website where you are offered a $10 cash back coupon from your next purchase at Cheaper Than Dirt if you sign up for their program. Directly above the box where you enter your email address and click "YES" to sign up, there is a statement that reads: "By entering my email address as my electronic signature and clicking YES, I have read and agree to the Offer Details and authorize Cheaperthandirt.com to securely transfer my name, address and credit or debit card information to Reservation Rewards for billing and benefit processing." This being said, I would encourage all of you to never sign up for anything on the web without first reading and understanding what you are doing. I apologize if 000Buck feels he was misled in any way - it is not and was not our intent to mislead him. In reality, Reservation Rewards and their offer are legitimate - I'm a member myself. They are an upstanding business that will gladly refund any charges at any time. We at Cheaper Than Dirt have been working with them for over a year now and have never once had a bad experience. They realize they are dealing with our customers, and would never do anything to jeopardize that relationship. If any of you have had any negative experiences with them, please let us know. If you would like more clarification on this, please send me an email at jared@cheaperthandirt.com.

Thanks for listening,

Jared Tanner
Dir. Marketing
Cheaper Than Dirt

patentnonsense
March 24, 2004, 11:34 AM
Thanks to CTD for signing up and posting this.

As a longtime CTD customer, I still don't like this scam, and I would urge CTD to stop it.

I understand that you may not think of it as a scam, but I do - so perhaps you might consider your customers' viewpoints on this. I have been happy dealing with CTD over the years, but I don't like having little traps set for me - even though I didn't fall into this one.

Cosmoline
March 24, 2004, 11:43 AM
That explains it, but I still question the marketing approach. I prefer to have a "clean" transaction with no add-on offers or special deals. It's too much like a gun store trying to sell you coupon books. Maybe it's legal but it leaves a bad, bad taste.

Bulldozer
March 24, 2004, 12:17 PM
I got hit with this garbage from both Cheaper Than Dirt AND Choice Hotels. Neither merchant will get any of my business now or in the future. I have also filed complaint with both the FTC's Consumer Portection Division and my State Attornery General's office.

CannibalCrowley
March 24, 2004, 12:38 PM
All they're doing is providing people the opprotunity to sign up with a discount club. I see nothing wrong with the way it's presented. If you want to join, do so; if not, then don't sign up.

For those of you who "accidentally" signed up, you need to pay more attention and actually read the forms that you're filling out.

Rebeldon
March 24, 2004, 12:45 PM
I always order over the telephone.

Lightsped
March 24, 2004, 12:50 PM
Made numerous orders for cheaperthandirt. No problems whatsoever with my Credit Card or anything else.

Berg01
March 24, 2004, 12:50 PM
I bought an Allen Gunrug from Cheaper than Dirt last year; with the shipping it wound up costing around $20.00; I bought the same Allen gunrug at WalMart a few months ago for $7.00. I now buy Allen gunrugs and most of my factory ammo at WalMart, or on sale at Dicks, and I would recommend most anyone do the same.

Regardless of what Mr. "CTD" says, if you type a credit card number into a website for a purchase, you are running the (excessive) risk of having that number intercepted and then misused for identity fraud. I will only do cc transactions over the phone using an "800" number,where I can talk to a customer service rep. Any online vendor that cannot accomodate me does not get my business, even if they are the cheapest!

000Buck
March 24, 2004, 01:07 PM
>>All they're doing is providing people the opprotunity to sign up with a >>discount club. I see nothing wrong with the way it's presented. If you >>want to join, do so; if not, then don't sign up.

Yes, that is true, they are offering this opportunity, but in a sneaky way. People shouldnt have a $10 off coupon flashing in their face, with tiny fine print saying if they go for the $10 coupon they are going to pay $7 a month for some worthless discount club, automatically billed directly to their credit card. I dont remember clicking on anything, and I definitely didnt put my email address into a box or fill anything out.

The point is, if people are being misled into joining this $7 a month discount club like I was and the 1911forum guy was, they should make it more obvious what is going on, or remove it, it is coming off as a scam. I would never expect to buy stuff from a gun site then have some completely unrelated discount club ripoff enroll me on a mistake I made by clicking on the wrong thing. If I wanted to enroll in a discount club, I would go to Sams or Costco.

>>For those of you who "accidentally" signed up, you need to pay more >>attention and actually read the forms that you're filling out.

Thats kindof my point, if I am buying something from a reputable store, I shouldnt have to worry about accidently clicking on the wrong thing, thus getting enrolled in a recurring charge on my CC. If you think there is nothing wrong with it, great, keep shopping there. I dont want to buy ammo from a store that acts like a car dealership, trying to trick me into buying something I dont need, and is worthless. CTD should not pass credit card information to another website for a completely unrelated product, period.

Lord Grey Boots
March 24, 2004, 01:36 PM
I order from CTD fairly often. I have had no problems. I don't sign up for anything I don't want.

Realistically, its far more dangerous to give your credit card to someone at a gas station or restaurant than to order online with a credit card from a real company.

CTD's way of handling this deal is upfront and honest, but you need to pay attention.

I found TIME magazine and Money magazine to be far worst, they send you unordered books, then send you a bill for them.

murrie
March 24, 2004, 01:58 PM
I have nothing but good things to say about CTD, but i have to say that im gonna look hard at natchezss.com since they have lower prices on just about all the ammo i buy...

thanks for that info!

GMAN
March 24, 2004, 02:27 PM
I had the exact same thing happen to me at Cheaper than Dirt, I will never order from them again.

XavierBreath
March 24, 2004, 09:28 PM
It would have been so easy for CTD to simply say "We appreciate your business and have removed the link. We hope to retain your future patronage."

Justifying an unwanted revolving charge to a customer's credit card is a difficult chore, no doubt. Sometimes it's simply easier to just stand up and say doggone it we were wrong, and we've fixed it. My business will go elsewhere not because of the scam, but the BS justification for it. If they can find justification for the first scam, they can find justification for the next.

Nice try CTD, but no cigar.

..
March 24, 2004, 11:04 PM
CTD does shady deals like this all the time. They buy other domain names similiar to their competetion so you are directed to CTD's site when you misspell the site name. The aren't cheap on new items and they sell alot of surplus made in china junk.

Military antiques isn't worth the trip unless you want to buy odd/old surplus ammo or are into C&R stuff. Good prices on Wolf though, think they had the new stuff when I was in there a couple months ago.

StuporDave
March 24, 2004, 11:34 PM
I buy a few things from CTD. Never had a problem witheir service. I saw the link in question a couple of times. I clicked on the "get your reward" button ( or whatever it said) the first time. I read the offer, wasn't interested, and declined it.
I you accepted the offer without reading what it was about, how is that CDT's fault?
Read the details on ANY offer on the internet before you accept it. It's only common sense. Companies will find a way to get to your money.

My standard reply to telemarketers used to be "send me the info in writing". It made most of them go away. When they actually sent something, it went in the trash unopened. Untill they got me.

Some kind of car club offer through/sponsored by my credit card company. Told them I wasn't interested, but send me the info in writing and I'd look it over. Got the info in the mail, threw it away. Got a $60 charge on my CC statement. Apparently the written info said If you don't cancel by such and such a date, we assume you want it and we'll charge your credit card for it. (offer was throught the CC company, they already had the info).

If there are words there, read them. If you don't, whose fault is that?

Preacherman
March 25, 2004, 12:18 AM
OK, folks, I think we've done this one to death. We've heard from injured parties and satisfied parties, and CTD has been kind enough to register and post here in an attempt to clear up any confusion. Let's leave it at that - and those who wish to can go on shopping at CTD, while those who don't can go elsewhere.

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